New MP3/Video Player - Blog :-) [Archive]

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racer2c

02-27-06, 01:13 PM

My 15 year old daughter has been bugging us to upgrade her thumb size flash media MP3 player for awhile now. Especially since 95% of her friends have the video i-Pod and the other 5% have the latest video i-River. A few weeks ago her 11 year old cousin who has been diligently saving her allowance, dumped every dime she had down on a 30gig video ipod. I'm the family PC geek so the night she bought it, her mother brought her over and hands it to me and says, ok, we want Pirates of the Caribbean, 13 Going on 30, etc. I give them a blank stare and then fire-up itunes and show them their available downloads. TV shows, music, e-books, movie shorts but alas no full length movies. Enter 11 year old with new ipod and frown on face..."but you can find a way can't you Uncle?"

But of course child. Where there is a will there is a way. Now, knowing that my good friend at work has every single episode of Family Guy on his 60gig iPod I give him a ring. He confirms my suspicions. Uninstall itunes, and grab a converter from the world wide web. He uses ephpod. Two hours later and about a couple of dozen expletives (my niece had gone home) I was unable to successfully convert any of my ripped DVD VOB's to MPEG4 (the half dozen converters I grabbed were junk and threw errors left and right). I did get her 20 some MP3's on there via itunes (if you copy them over to the ipod as a removable disk, the songs won't show in the music menu. Boo.)
So now my niece has an ipod with 20 some songs on it. She could have spent her money on a little flash media MP3 player for $50. And, my daughter is miffed that her little cousin has an ipod and she doesn’t.

I explain to my daughter that I'm not just dumping $300 plus $30 for the charger (!) just cuz the sky is blue. She has to bring all A's home on the next report card. This past Friday she comes home, throws her report card on the table and says with a grin "I want a white one".

Enter the "educated consumer dad" which prompts the rolling of the eyes and a audible sigh from daughter. I explain that my experience with her cousin's ipod turned me off on that brand. It’s a single format, difficult to circumvent expensive MP3 player. I reminded her that her cousin has a few CD's on it and that's it. It's a waste of space and money. She explained that she, at almost 16 has a hundred CD's she could rip to it. I say, "let's look and see what is out there for competition." More sighs etc and we get online. We look at the i-River but there was surprisingly little on the internet about it. She said her friends are bulky too. She wants an ipod. Then I say,” let's check out Creative. You're little MP3 player is a Creative and you like it.” We see that they are releasing their new ipod fighter called the Zen Vision:M. She likes the colors it comes in and she seems interested. I say, "let's go to Best Buy tomorrow and see them in action".

She now has a black Zen Vision: M and I have to say this thing ROCKS. Best Buy put them on the shelves this past week. Multi video format, mpeg1/2/4, MP3, wmv, divx, avi! Multi audio formats, multi still image formats. 30 gigs and an entire move that I converted (wmv) is only 400mb!
2.5" screen (half inch bigger than the ipod which doesn't sound like much but makes a huge difference). And you can throw things over to it just through windows explorer (like) utility and it puts it in the right menu on the Zen. No clumbsy software.
If you're in the market for a hard drive based portable MP3/Video player, I highly recommend the Zen Vision:M. You won't be sorry.

I am still looking for some decent converters though. The process I use now is to rip my DVD to my hard drive keeping the video_ts folders in tact and then pointing the Zen converter to the VOB files. The problem with this is that movies are made of multiple VOB’s and the Zen converter won’t recognize the ifo file (that’s the file that tells your DVD player the order to play the VOB’s. So for each movie there are multiple wmv files on her Zen. I need a good DVD ripper that will convert to avi or mpeg2/4. If anyone knows of any would you let me know?

Thanks!

Link to the Zen Vision:M (http://www.creative.com/products/mp3/zenvisionm/companion/)

02-27-06, 02:22 PM

how much did it co$t?

racer2c

02-27-06, 02:23 PM

how much did it co$t?

the same as a 30gig iPod with charger, $330 US.

SteveH

02-27-06, 02:24 PM

WIRED.com today has an article about how to put DVDs on an iPod

Sure, you could fill your video iPod with episodes of Knight Rider from iTunes for $2 a pop. Or you could save some cash - and your soul - and fill it with files you convert from your DVD collection using freely available software. Problem is, you'd have to break the law. Though it's theoretically OK to back up DVDs for personal use, it's illegal to override commercial copy protection, a necessary step in the process. Proceed at your own risk. - Cathy Lu

1. Decrypt the DISC
Software like DVDFab Decrypter (www.dvdidle.com/free.htm) removes a DVD's copy protection. Remember, this is the illegal part, which is why DVD decrypting software is always a moving target. Should DVDFab disappear, a replacement is just a Google search away.

2. Combine the Video files
Ripping a DVD produces a bunch of cryptically named .VOB files. VOBMerge 2.5 (medlem.spray.se/evilmastr/mainmenu.php) will string them together. To find the movie, look for a series of very large files named something like VTS_07_1.VOB, VTS_07_2.VOB, and so on.

3. Convert the Movie
Use an app like 3GP_Converter (www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=3GP_Converter) to turn your movie into an iPod-compatible MPEG-4 file. Select "Model: MP4, for iPod" as the conversion mode (there is also an option for the PSP). The resulting file is ready for iTunes.

racer2c

02-27-06, 02:35 PM

WIRED.com today has an article about how to put DVDs on an iPod

Thanks Steve, the VOB merging ute is eactly what I was looking for. I did find a cumbersome workaround by taking the multiple .wmv files that were converted to Zen format from the original VOB's and importing them into Windows Movie Maker software. Then I simply made one movie from the three and saved as a wmv. the VOB merger is a much faster and cleaner solution.

:cool:

KLang

02-27-06, 03:02 PM

Software like DVDFab Decrypter (www.dvdidle.com/free.htm) removes a DVD's copy protection. Remember, this is the illegal part, which is why DVD decrypting software is always a moving target. Should DVDFab disappear, a replacement is just a Google search away.

Is it illegal to posess one of these illegally decrypted files? Could your kid get busted for having it on his/her Ipod/media player?

I don't get the attraction of watching a movie on a two inch screen anyway. :confused:

racer2c

02-27-06, 03:19 PM

Is it illegal to posess one of these illegally decrypted files? Could your kid get busted for having it on his/her Ipod/media player?

I don't get the attraction of watching a movie on a two inch screen anyway. :confused:

Technically yes and yes.

There is a plethora of locations on the internet to get pre-ripped video and I don't nor would I allow my child to obtain files from those places. I rip video from DVD's that I own. I'm allowed to legally rip and make MP3's and exact duplicates of audio CD's for my own purposes but I'm not allowed to with the DVD's I own? they haven't convinced me that there is a difference.

KLang

02-27-06, 03:40 PM

Technically yes and yes.

There is a plethora of locations on the internet to get pre-ripped video and I don't nor would I allow my child to obtain files from those places. I rip video from DVD's that I own. I'm allowed to legally rip and make MP3's and exact duplicates of audio CD's for my own purposes but I'm not allowed to with the DVD's I own? they haven't convinced me that there is a difference.

I agree you should be able to make copies for yourself.

dando

02-27-06, 04:00 PM

I don't get the attraction of watching a movie on a two inch screen anyway. :confused:

Because you can. Has something to do with the IT factor, too. I can understand watching clips or highlights, and maybe a 30 minute show if I'm stuck on a commute or plane, but there is no way I could enjoy watching a movie on a screen that size.

-Kevin

CART T. Katz

02-27-06, 05:07 PM

I'm allowed to legally rip and make MP3's and exact duplicates of audio CD's for my own purposes...

not according to the riaa

linky (http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004409.php)

reguarding cd ripping:

"Nor does the fact that permission to make a copy in particular circumstances is often or even routinely granted, necessarily establish that the copying is a fair use when the copyright owner withholds that authorization. In this regard, the statement attributed to counsel for copyright owners in the MGM v. Grokster case is simply a statement about authorization, not about fair use."

SteveH

02-27-06, 06:40 PM

supposedly this is good - and cheap

http://www.pqdvd.com/dvd-to-ipod-video-converter.html

nrc

02-27-06, 06:45 PM

not according to the riaa

linky (http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004409.php)

reguarding cd ripping:

Fortunately the RIAA doesn't get to define fair use. Copying your own media for personal use has always been considered fair use.

DVDs are a different kettle of fish because they're encrypted. Thanks to the the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, breaking the encryption is illegal even to copy strictly for personal use.

chop456

03-01-06, 03:09 AM

3. Convert the Movie
Use an app like 3GP_Converter (www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=3GP_Converter) to turn your movie into an iPod-compatible MPEG-4 file. Select "Model: MP4, for iPod" as the conversion mode (there is also an option for the PSP). The resulting file is ready for iTunes.

I haven't been able to get this to work at all. Anything I've "successfully" converted isn't recognized as a movie file by iTunes. Most files I've tried to convert error out before finishing.

racer2c

03-01-06, 10:33 AM

I haven't been able to get this to work at all. Anything I've "successfully" converted isn't recognized as a movie file by iTunes. Most files I've tried to convert error out before finishing.

That's been my result with MPEG4's also.

nrc

03-01-06, 11:23 AM

CART T. Katz

03-01-06, 01:29 PM

forget the pod

iriver (www.iriveramerica,com)

racer2c

03-01-06, 02:42 PM

Congrats on getting her to buck the peer pressure. It will be interesting to see if it sticks. Let us know if in a couple a months she comes back with, "But, daddy, it doesn't work with PodNation and I can't have a cool pink PodPack or a Podinator like all the other kids have."

So true.

I had to laugh when we went into Cirquit City for our first 'hands on' shopping, at the huge sign over the mp3 isle that said 'IPOD and MP3 Players'. Yep, the compitition has a long way to catch up. But I think the market is fickle. A really good product like the Zen can flip things quick. The two portable music sales guys at Best Buy were pushing the Zens bigtime.

03-31-06, 12:50 AM

Went looking tonight for this. It wasn't at the Best Buy that I went to.

Sales chick said that Creative makes the iriver's too.

Any help in finding a "store near you" that carries the M??

racer2c

03-31-06, 08:18 AM

Went looking tonight for this. It wasn't at the Best Buy that I went to.

Sales chick said that Creative makes the iriver's too.

Any help in finding a "store near you" that carries the M??

Weird. Were they out or did they say they didn't carry them? My Best Buy not only had dozens of them but the sales guys were very knowledgable about them and were actually pushing them over ipods.

They're listed on Best Buy's web site, although it's says they are sold out. Could be Creative can't keep up with demand at this point.

Link (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7657555&type=product&id=1134700863114)

theunions

03-31-06, 07:44 PM

I also recently (as in 2 weeks ago) got the Zen Vision: M and love it (some say 14 hours' battery charge is on the low side, but it sure beats the 14 MINUTES I got - if I was that lucky - from my previous player). I chose it based on price/capacity, the availability to save the album art info on my existing mp3s (surprisingly few other models do this), and the fact it's NOT an Apple product (I wouldn't have made it WinXP only though, and I would've preferred the larger variety of colors offered for the earlier Zens). Bought it from J&R Computer world for $299.

The only videos I have on it are things I did myself, as opposed to TV shows or movies. To me, the amount of time/money/effort spent getting that onto a player is much better spent just watching the thing on TV/DVD/DVR/etc.

03-31-06, 08:14 PM

theunions

03-31-06, 08:23 PM

I heard that you can't replace the battery. Is this true?!? Boo, if so.

That's correct. I figured that was a relatively minor disadvantage all things considered.

03-31-06, 08:45 PM

That's correct. I figured that was a relatively minor disadvantage all things considered.
But it's a guaranteed replacement in, what, 3 years? A hundred bucks a year for this thing?

dcracer

03-31-06, 09:44 PM

Not to hijack this thread, but had any any one heard good or bad about this new flash based mp3 player from Samsung.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalAudioPlayer/MP3Players/images/b2c_m_ypz5blkc.jpg

http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalAudioPlayer/MP3Players/YP_Z5QBXAA.asp

The YP-Z5QB is supposed to be Samsung's answer to the iPod Nano.

theunions

03-31-06, 10:32 PM

But it's a guaranteed replacement in, what, 3 years? A hundred bucks a year for this thing?

I dunno about that (especially the "guaranteed" part)...I don't use mine hours a day every single day like many seem to, and often I use it plugged in. I'd like to think the battery would be factory-replacable (the literature doesn't mention this), as is the case with at least some iPods.

racer2c

03-31-06, 10:41 PM

Just ordered one from CircuitCity.com. They apparently have them, but not in any of the stores nearby. Gotta go to Gomer country to pick one up (Joliet, IL).

Of course, if I don't like it, I can return it to racer2c, right? I mean, he recommended it on the internet, so he stands by it, right? Right? :gomer:

I heard that you can't replace the battery. Is this true?!? Boo, if so.

r2c, no, BB didn't show it as offered in their printed, professional, offering cardstock thing. I have no idea how to explain it, but there was a flip-thru book attached to the counter that showed ALL of their offered MP3 players ('cept some of the real cheap ones).

Time for some Rippin'!

Hmm, the kid at Best Buy told me you had to send them back to Creative to get the battery replaced just like an iPod.

You can't go wrong with multiformat! Still takes a bit of work to get ripped video on it but a heck of a lot less work than an iPod. At least I have a choice of formats to choose from.

My daughter bought a decent case for hers but I'm disappointed to see that the screen is still so scratched. I know ipods have film protective sheets. I would recommend looking into them for the Zen also.

theunions

04-01-06, 01:25 AM

My daughter bought a decent case for hers but I'm disappointed to see that the screen is still so scratched. I know ipods have film protective sheets. I would recommend looking into them for the Zen also.

One of the reviews I saw before purchase indicated the black model particularly showed scratches. It was a safe assumption from there that the other colors would be just as physically scratch-prone, and I was right.

I ordered one of the clear (neoprene?) stretch cases from Boxwave, which arrived several days after the unit did from J&R. By that time, despite being very careful with it (i.e., not using it away from my desk at home or hand-carrying it while in use), it had already developed a few fine scratches. And much to my surprise and irritation, the Boxwave has a giant gaping hole where a clear window over the screen should be (you can't tell this from the product photos).

I haven't managed to get my hand on the film protective sheets, so right now I just slapped a piece of clear lamination film on it - not perfect in terms of transparency, and it took a half dozen attempts to get it done without bubbling, but it does the job.

chop456

04-01-06, 08:20 AM

I have this one and it's great. Nice thick plastic cover for the screen.

http://speckproducts.com/vid-toughskin.html

07-15-06, 05:32 PM

datachicane

07-16-06, 01:21 AM

Picked up the same Zen a few days back for my (confirmedly non-geek) father, and he's thrilled with it.

I still love my Neuros- it's huge and ugly by iPod standards, but the firmware is open source, it's easy to work on (I slapped in plain old 2.5" 80gb drive a while back), plays .ogg and .wav in addition to mp3 with outstanding sound quality, records to .wav or mp3 in any number of bitrates, either through the internal stereo mike or line-in (good for concerts :cool: ), has a built-in FM transmitter, 10hr battery life while broadcasting and a user-replaceable (with tools) battery. It's held up great through years of abuse, and I'm going to miss it when the time comes.

nrc

07-16-06, 09:12 PM

A friend bought an 80G Nueros when they were clearing them out and he's fairly pleased with it. A few more crashes and lockups than our Rio Karma but you couldn't beat it for the price at the time.

Unfortunately iPod Hegemony has all but killed the alternatives in the hard drive player market. These days the best option may be an iPod with RockBox (http://www.rockbox.org/) firmware.

On the question of boom boxes, my impression is that most of the ones made to work with a DAP are intended for the iPod. They've usually got a slot and connector specific to the iPod. Or were you just thinking about any old boom box with Aux in?

racer2c

07-16-06, 09:18 PM

OK, I have my Zen pretty well loaded and am digging it.

No it's time for a boom box addition.

Question for the clueless (that would be me, of course), since it's an iPod world, every boom box advertised is for an iPod box.

Does a boom box for an iPod work with the Zen??

Now for the fun part, what boom box do you recommend? There's some cheap stuff out there...

I would want battery and line-cord capability.

Thanks, All.

How many full length movies do you have on there?

I wish I could help on the boom box info but my daughter has the Zen, I just "put stuff on it". She's one of these kids who walks around with earplugs in all day and all night.

07-18-06, 11:20 AM

How many full length movies do you have on there?

I wish I could help on the boom box info but my daughter has the Zen, I just "put stuff on it". She's one of these kids who walks around with earplugs in all day and all night.I haven't put any movies on it yet. When I did the music drag-n-drop to copy stuff onto it, it only got to M before it filled up the 30 Gigs.

Since then I've been cleaning house. I don't know how much space is on it right now, but prolly not enough for a movie.

When I get some spare time ( :laugh: ) I'll rip a movie onto it.

07-21-06, 01:11 AM

Dr. Corkski

07-21-06, 02:40 AM

The boom boxes made for iPod have the specific dock for iPods, but I know at least some like the Altec Lansing ones will work with non-iPods using auxiliary input. It probably wouldn't fit as well as an iPod either. You best bet is probably checking to see if Creative has made one specific for the Zen Vision.

That's one of the drawbacks of resisting consumer whorism. You might have gotten a greater product for less but it sucks when it comes to accesory shopping. Damn those crooks from Cupertino for turning me into a consumer whore. :cry:

Ankf00

07-27-06, 06:03 PM

$50 discount from UT apple store w/ UT ID => 30GB iPod == $220 :thumbup: