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View Full Version : Panther is gone - and some questions...



Spicoli
02-03-06, 07:10 PM
Whether anyone wants to believe it, EVERYTHING at Panther is going. EVERYTHING. There is no "keeping 2 cars for Indy" b.s.

Why didn't FTG write a check to keep this veteran EARL crew together? And why The F would he get behind "Yeller Ribbin" racing instead?

The Gomerati are eating themselves over this.

Maybe what he shoulda done is expanded Vi$ion$ racing and "condensed" Panther into it? I dunno, just seems all is not right @ 16th & Jonestown. I mean he hired Scheckturd AND their top engineer...why not just make an offer to buy the whole thing, dump the Vi$ionS name and now he bought the history of Panther too?

As usual, ___king Tony makes no sense. :shakehead

eiregosod
02-03-06, 07:31 PM
Robber-baron oh sorry Yeller-ribbin-racin' attracts non taxable funds.

financial administartion at yeller-ribbin could be a cushie number for one of TG's nieces or nephews.

FTG
02-03-06, 07:33 PM
As usual, ___king Tony makes no sense. :shakehead

Do you think he ever will?

Steve99
02-03-06, 08:35 PM
I mean he hired Scheckturd AND their top engineer
Other than test, has anything been announced about Scheckter? Is he going to share a car with Ed?

Spicoli
02-03-06, 09:10 PM
Other than test, has anything been announced about Scheckter? Is he going to share a car with Ed?

I heard it was a done deal over a month ago. I'm surprised there's been no announcement.

Special Ed & The Scheckturds! Look out Huey Lewis!

NismoZ
02-03-06, 10:24 PM
Share a car? Yes...riding mechanic. It's an Indy tradition.

pfc_m_drake
02-03-06, 11:07 PM
Whether anyone wants to believe it, EVERYTHING at Panther is going. EVERYTHING. There is no "keeping 2 cars for Indy" b.s.

Why didn't FTG write a check to keep this veteran EARL crew together? And why The F would he get behind "Yeller Ribbin" racing instead?
My best guess is that TG knows he's got a large bill coming for the month of may. Could be as many as 10 engine leases and chassis for 10 cars.

He knows that he has to have 33 starters for Indy. If you figure 18 full time cars, plus 5 self-funded Indy one-offs (depending on who you believe, 18 and 5 might even be generous) that still leaves you 10 cars short. That's not going to be cheap - and may explain the reluctance to cut teams like Panther, D&R, etc. a check to run the full season.

And as of right now, I don't see any evidence that there's any real $$$ behind Yellow Ribbon Racing.

Al Czervik
02-03-06, 11:41 PM
At some point in time there is going to be a "case study" in B-School about Anton & the 500. How long until it is taught in Indiana? Bonus for how long until it is added to the ciriculum at Indiana State or Rose-Hulman. :gomer:

Spicoli
02-03-06, 11:57 PM
At some point in time there is going to be a "case study" in B-School about Anton & the 500. How long until it is taught in Indiana? Bonus for how long until it is added to the ciriculum at Indiana State or Rose-Hulman. :gomer:

What's sad is that the average prson in Indy could give a Flying F what happens. I guess we don't know what indy 500 means? :saywhat:

:shakehead

RTKar
02-04-06, 11:42 AM
Why didn't FTG write a check to keep this veteran EARL crew together? And why The F would he get behind "Yeller Ribbin" racing instead? :shakehead

perhaps someone told little anton off...

stroker
02-04-06, 01:40 PM
It seems to me to be a calculated move. TG in all his cunning genious is going to use the lack of 33 this year (which is why he didn't subsidize Panther) to springboard his new formula for '07. That formula will no doubt be "a return to the roots of the Speedway" in its simplicity and affordability, with a focus on grassroots participation.

In a nutshell, I think his reasoning is that he's intentionally creating a smaller failure to debut a "new and improved" IRL. I suspect he's thinking that the hoopla regarding the new formula (and his "instantaneous" response to a problem that was "not within the control of the IRL" <"damn furriners">) will overshadow the anticipated questions regarding the failure of the previous arrangements.

I think he's dumb enough to think it'll work.

Don Quixote
02-04-06, 01:57 PM
perhaps someone told little anton off...
This is what I think happened. Instead of being good little children marching in lockstep, someone at Panther dared to speak the truth to the ___king Toni. Hence, no Tonibucks for them.

Spicoli
02-04-06, 02:48 PM
It seems to me to be a calculated move. TG in all his cunning genious is going to use the lack of 33 this year (which is why he didn't subsidize Panther) to springboard his new formula for '07. That formula will no doubt be "a return to the roots of the Speedway" in its simplicity and affordability, with a focus on grassroots participation.

In a nutshell, I think his reasoning is that he's intentionally creating a smaller failure to debut a "new and improved" IRL. I suspect he's thinking that the hoopla regarding the new formula (and his "instantaneous" response to a problem that was "not within the control of the IRL" <"damn furriners">) will overshadow the anticipated questions regarding the failure of the previous arrangements.

I think he's dumb enough to think it'll work.

would this work??? :confused:

http://www.indy500.com/cardesign/cars/1139008558-1950.jpg

Wheel-Nut
02-04-06, 04:00 PM
What's sad is that the average prson in Indy could give a Flying F what happens. I guess we don't know what indy 500 means? :saywhat:

:shakehead

Is that true? When i was there last year I wondered just how many residents, not the people who use the I500 to make a buck but the regular everyday people, how many would GAF if the I500 went away?

RTKar
02-04-06, 04:09 PM
This is what I think happened. Instead of being good little children marching in lockstep, someone at Panther dared to speak the truth to the ___king Toni. Hence, no Tonibucks for them.

No soup for you!

cart7
02-04-06, 04:42 PM
Is that true? When i was there last year I wondered just how many residents, not the people who use the I500 to make a buck but the regular everyday people, how many would GAF if the I500 went away?

I have old friends that live in Martinsville just south of Indy. 10 or more years ago Indy was a big thing, now, nobody gives a F anymore.

Spicoli
02-04-06, 04:45 PM
I have old friends that live in Martinsville just south of Indy. 10 or more years ago Indy was a big thing, now, nobody gives a F anymore.


I have often said if you would stand on Monument circle any day of the year - including May - you'd be lucky if 1% of the general public could name 3 current drivers at the 500.

Ask them the same about HickYard 4-Hunnert? They can name half the field. :shakehead

cart7
02-04-06, 05:24 PM
Saw this posted from an irl insider who attended todays auction, this was posted at another forum (Dolans)



The claim from various people today remains that Honda is still assisting certain teams. The question from those making that claim is what happens next year if Honda really cuts all subsidies?? There are people with the belief that some of the teams getting those subsidies do not remain in the IRL without them.

I made a comment to a handful of people today that it looks to me that Tony has turned over the keys to the IRL to people responsible for what happened in CART and I believe they will turn on the IRL as fast as they turned on CART. Of the handful of "insiders" I said that to this morning, not one challenged me on my belief.

stroker
02-04-06, 08:57 PM
would this work??? :confused:

http://www.indy500.com/cardesign/cars/1139008558-1950.jpg



Add a roll cage, sidepods and a homely-ass sportscar nose and you'll get the idea.

Jervis Tetch 1
02-04-06, 09:08 PM
Do you think he ever will?Excellent question which deserves and excellent answer: Ed Carpenter.

'Nuff said.

dando
02-04-06, 11:26 PM
Whether anyone wants to believe it, EVERYTHING at Panther is going. EVERYTHING. There is no "keeping 2 cars for Indy" b.s.

Why didn't FTG write a check to keep this veteran EARL crew together? And why The F would he get behind "Yeller Ribbin" racing instead?

The Gomerati are eating themselves over this.

Maybe what he shoulda done is expanded Vi$ion$ racing and "condensed" Panther into it? I dunno, just seems all is not right @ 16th & Jonestown. I mean he hired Scheckturd AND their top engineer...why not just make an offer to buy the whole thing, dump the Vi$ionS name and now he bought the history of Panther too?

As usual, ___king Tony makes no sense. :shakehead
You miss the simple genius behind this....FTG is secretly buying up the defunct teams for a $.10 on the $. Soon he'll have his one team of 33 cars. :gomer:

-Kevin

SurfaceUnits
02-05-06, 02:01 AM
The tf gomerati are so delusional. Still claiming that only some of the assets are for sale and that the team is just reorganizing for a full '06 season. :shakehead

spinner26
02-05-06, 02:29 AM
The tf gomerati are so delusional. Still claiming that only some of the assets are for sale and that the team is just reorganizing for a full '06 season. :shakehead


Well, BY GOD~! Youu don't believe it? You just call up that there John Barnes and he'll BY GOD tell ya By God! They's gonna have a car at the fihunnert, and and and they's gonna keep a pluggin away. This here auction's just to raise enuff cabbage ta keep a goin til that there sponsor in the wings is brung in. You just wait BY GOD! Youn's is a gonna eat them there words, BY GOD! :gomer: :saywhat:

cart7
02-05-06, 11:13 AM
I called Panther racing a few weeks ago. The receptionist was clueless.

Me - "Is Panther going out of business? I see the entire contents of the shop are being liquidated."

Her (blonde maybe?) - "Oh no, if we are I haven't heard anything about it."

Me - "But you're selling everything in the shop including all of your current IRL spec chassis. How can you race?"

Her - "Oh we've got enough equipment in storage to run another 1 or 2 cars. Believe me, I'd know if we were going out of business"

Me - "uh-huh, if you say so. Thanks." >click<

cameraman
02-09-06, 07:08 PM
Yet this will happen tomorrow:


Panther Racing officials will participate in an Indy Racing League teleconference on Friday, Feb. 10 to make a team announcement. The call will begin at 2 p.m. (EST).

cart7
02-10-06, 01:37 PM
Well, apparently Panther racing still lives, at least in name.

Looks like the partnership that was Panther decided to split and sell everything at auction. Barnes and Boles were there and bought back some of their (old partnerships) junk. They got enough money to run Homestead I'm sure but they'll still need another 4-5 million in cash to go the distance. Apparently Penzoil is still onboard as a very minor associate sponsor. Still seems pretty unlikely this team will go anywhere. Advertising budgets for this year to the tune of millions of $$ were set last year.

cameraman
02-10-06, 01:46 PM
Panther Racing will announce today that it has signed Vitor Meira to drive the No. 4 Honda-powered Dallara for the 2006 IRL IndyCar Series season, ending an off-season in which the team came near the brink of disbanding.

A teleconference announcing the deal is scheduled for Friday.

Team officials also are expected to announce the return of Pennzoil as the car's sponsor, with other sponsors expected to be added in the near future.


http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/indycar/21987/

NismoZ
02-10-06, 03:19 PM
By God!

Spicoli
02-10-06, 03:34 PM
Vitor + Jap engines + Italian Chassis + street races = Vi$ion$.


Gotta love it when a plan comes together. :thumbup:

:shakehead

fookin dumbsheet.

cameraman
02-10-06, 05:18 PM
They are looking at two cars for Mindy.


Panther held back or bought back many of the items needed to run an entry this season. It still owns five chassis and plans to run a second car in the Indianapolis 500.

jonovision_man
02-10-06, 05:38 PM
But Spicoi said...


Whether anyone wants to believe it, EVERYTHING at Panther is going. EVERYTHING. There is no "keeping 2 cars for Indy" b.s.


;)

A shadow of its former self, but good to see them survive. I wonder how much of this is Penzoil and how much is Tony... can't help but think the latter is more responsible for Panther 2 - the Resurrection.

jono

NismoZ
02-10-06, 05:57 PM
I think most of it is Vitor.

skaven
02-10-06, 06:43 PM
A shadow of its former self, but good to see them survive.

jono

Hmmm.... I started watching "The Aristocrats" last night and will finish tonight. The acts described in the comedy acts would be too nice for anyone associated with the Earl. :flame:

George Carlin can squirt corn-laden diarrhea in their mouths for all I care.

devilmaster
02-10-06, 08:27 PM
Hmmm.... I started watching "The Aristocrats" last night and will finish tonight. The acts described in the comedy acts would be too nice for anyone associated with the Earl. :flame:

George Carlin can squirt corn-laden diarrhea in their mouths for all I care.

And he can deal with the kentucky windage ;)

skaven
02-10-06, 09:05 PM
I had to look this one up.


Kentucky windage- A straightforward and effective way to recenter a design that is off in frequency.

In context, this would be very, very messy. :eek: :rofl:

jono, Panther was probably the best of the lot and I guess I kinda respected them in a way, but after the events of the past few years, they can all rot.

After St. Petersburg I decided I finally had to go militant. The Denver GP is a good forum to bash the .1RL. Too bad PPIR's gone. I liked talking people with free tickets out of going... ;)

racer2c
02-10-06, 09:16 PM
It is BS. They said Vitor was an A class driver. Well, he did beat Danickle in the Gomer 500.

trauma1
02-11-06, 04:06 AM
rumor is pennzoil also bought the pos back for barnes also :shakehead

jonovision_man
02-11-06, 09:56 AM
jono, Panther was probably the best of the lot and I guess I kinda respected them in a way, but after the events of the past few years, they can all rot.


Well I've always taken a slight different view than most of you here... :)

I've said to much! ;)

jono

Wheel-Nut
02-11-06, 11:19 AM
Well I've always taken a slight different view than most of you here... :)

I've said to much! ;)

jono

I've noticed; here your pro earl, there your pro Champ Car . . . . :confused:

jonovision_man
02-11-06, 01:27 PM
I've noticed; here your pro earl, there your pro Champ Car . . . . :confused:

Well, I try not to constrain myself to supporting one or the other exclusively, I watch what I like and call it like I see it. I'm more of a CCWS fan than IRL fan since I love road/street racing, but when the IRL does something I like I say it. So when it comes to Panther, I give them props for what they managed to do (win a championship!) in the IRL and would have hated to see them wither on the vine as IRL sponsorship dried up.

I don't think I need to tell you the things I don't like about the IRL here... that subject is well covered on this forum. :)

jono

Spicoli
02-11-06, 05:39 PM
Well, I try not to constrain myself to supporting one or the other exclusively, I watch what I like and call it like I see it. I'm more of a CCWS fan than IRL fan since I love road/street racing, but when the IRL does something I like I say it. So when it comes to Panther, I give them props for what they managed to do (win a championship!) in the IRL and would have hated to see them wither on the vine as IRL sponsorship dried up.

I don't think I need to tell you the things I don't like about the IRL here... that subject is well covered on this forum. :)

jono

so what do you do when you have to declare a party in the primary elections?

"I'm Canadian"? :gomer:

:cry:

B3RACER1a
02-11-06, 06:16 PM
I'd rather them be running in Champ Car. Figured they'd learn the first time around, but maybe there is more too it (Tony Bucks).

I would like the IRL to dry up and die and be the way it was in in early 90's.

Teams that do this just prolong the split. :thumdown:

Sean O'Gorman
02-12-06, 12:54 AM
Wonder what this is all about?

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1524341

trauma1
02-12-06, 01:26 AM
either ftg gave some money to buy back the stuff, what the word is that pennzoil ponied up the cash, so how legit was this "auction." sounded fishy on what took place :shakehead sounds like one of the creditors is pissed off

jonovision_man
02-12-06, 11:12 AM
Wonder what this is all about?

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1524341

Interesting... if the "real" auction world works anything like e-bay, bidding on your own items is a big no-no. I wonder if they were bidding against this guy and pushed the price up?

edit: did some research, it's refered to as "sham bidding" or "shill bidding":
http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

Since it seems to have been acknowledged that they did indeed bid on their own auction, it's quite possible this is what's being talked about by the gentleman in that post...

jono

cart7
02-12-06, 06:16 PM
Interesting... if the "real" auction world works anything like e-bay, bidding on your own items is a big no-no. I wonder if they were bidding against this guy and pushed the price up?

edit: did some research, it's refered to as "sham bidding" or "shill bidding":
http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

Since it seems to have been acknowledged that they did indeed bid on their own auction, it's quite possible this is what's being talked about by the gentleman in that post...

jono

Well, having spent some time in the real auction world you can bid on your own items and it's perfectly legit under certain circumstances. Usually an auctioneer will announce if an owner is trying to buy back some of his merchandise and explain the circumstances (especially in a deal like Panther).
As was discussed, this was probably the dissolving of a corporated partnership or LLC and all parties agreed to dissolve. Since a couple old partners wanted to carry on the business under a different corporate guise, they're perfectly legit to bid on the equipment. I find it more interesting that they didn't try and come to some sort of pre-arranged price to buy the stuff back at rather than listing and taking your chance at an auction. Plus you've got the aucitioneers "cut" off the top. That was either structured within the incorporation of the group of investors or that group had too much bad blood within to be able to come up with an agreed upon price of the equipment that the fellows wanted to keep.

Shill bidding isn't all that uncommon. Basically they're plants at auctions who are there to run up bids. There were several auction houses in my area who were known to use them. You could pick them out. They bid often and hung in keeping a couple bidders on the hook until bailing. You'd notice they NEVER actually won anything. In this electronic day and age, shill bidding over the phone or internet would be extremely easy. Usually though, an auctioneers reputation for that kind of thing proceeds them. It's pretty easy to back out of bidding if the prices get out of hand.