Daytona 24 race thread

[devilmaster]

I suppose an interesting comment to all of this is the fact that NASCAR fans don't come out in droves for stuff like this.

One would think that any France owned entity with some of their top name drivers would raise attendance, but it seems like it doesn't.

What does that say about the majority of Nascar fans? About the Frances?

Everything they touch doesn't turn to gold?

And to take a comment travis made and what Varsha said: This was probably one of the deepest driver fields in a very long time. Why doesn't that attract? Not to slam seano and trav with this, but its a serious question... If you have large fields, close racing, famous drivers and all that jazz, when does it become bothersome that there isn't a large fan base or race attendance? I personally don't agree with the GA concept, but they've put into place relatively cheap racing which they claim will be close, and race teams seem to flock to it. Will it always be ok to not have fans show up?

[FCYTravis]

I don't see how anyone can say it *wasn't* large race attendance. Was it Sebring-like race attendance? No, but it wasn't IRL Phoenix-like either. The infield camping areas were *completely freaking full* when I drove through at about 2 a.m.

[racer2c]

I suppose an interesting comment to all of this is the fact that NASCAR fans don't come out in droves for stuff like this.

One would think that any France owned entity with some of their top name drivers would raise attendance, but it seems like it doesn't.

What does that say about the majority of Nascar fans? About the Frances?

Everything they touch doesn't turn to gold?

And to take a comment travis made and what Varsha said: This was probably one of the deepest driver fields in a very long time. Why doesn't that attract? Not to slam seano and trav with this, but its a serious question... If you have large fields, close racing, famous drivers and all that jazz, when does it become bothersome that there isn't a large fan base or race attendance? I personally don't agree with the GA concept, but they've put into place relatively cheap racing which they claim will be close, and race teams seem to flock to it. Will it always be ok to not have fans show up?

:thumbup:

[devilmaster]

I don't see how anyone can say it *wasn't* large race attendance. Was it Sebring-like race attendance? No, but it wasn't IRL Phoenix-like either. The infield camping areas were *completely freaking full* when I drove through at about 2 a.m.

K, but I just don't get this - A race which is at the Mecca of nascar racing, that has Nascar drivers in it, a few weeks before their biggest race, which inches closer and closer to the biggest race on this continent all year. (if it already isn't)

I'm not busting your balls trav, I just don't understand how those grandstands on the front stretch (at least) aren't full. These posts question not you, but your typical nascar fan who, one would think, would be all over this.

[Sean O'Gorman]

It, for whatever reason, just isn't really being promoted. Grand-Am could pretty much stay at this level of popularity and still be able to profitably sustain itself.

However, keep in mind that RogerE has stated since the beginning of the DP era that the goal was to work on building the car counts before actively promoting the series, in order to make sure the product is worth promoting. It makes sense if you ask me, and I know this based on the experiences I had trying to promote CART to my friends back in '02 and '03. Yes, the product is better now than it was in years past, but no one I know that I took to a race before is interested in going back due to past experiences.

Yes, it would be nice to have a larger fanbase for Grand-Am (but not too large), but if it stays in its current form, I doubt too many people would be disappointed.

[Sean O'Gorman]

K, but I just don't get this - A race which is at the Mecca of nascar racing, that has Nascar drivers in it, a few weeks before their biggest race, which inches closer and closer to the biggest race on this continent all year. (if it already isn't)

I'm not busting your balls trav, I just don't understand how those grandstands on the front stretch (at least) aren't full. These posts question not you, but your typical nascar fan who, one would think, would be all over this.

Road racing, and specifically endurance racing, just isn't for everyone. Personally, I have no interest in going to the Rolex. I'd lose interest in a race where there are 60-70 cars driving around and not really running directly for position. I do like a shorter endurance race like PLM (which felt like a sprint race the first time I attended), but races like the Rolex are better for TV than they are in person. What racing or sports fan has the attention span and dedication to watch an event for 24 hours straight, especially from a grandstand? Not many, I'd imagine.

What I want to know from the Grand-Am detractors, is why "should" sports car racing be all about the cars? I've seen essentially the same cars at ALMS races for the past 5 years. Personally, an R8 or R10 or whatever can only be interesting for so long until it does something cool, like make a race more exciting. Reducing a field to 4-5 cars and obsoleting the competition doesn't exactly define "exciting" to me, no matter how cool/fast the car looks while doing it. One thing that bugs me about ALMS is the total lack of interest in the driver aspect amongst its fans. Go to an ALMS forum during the offseason (or any time), and all they'll talk about are car counts, with no regard for drivers. Could you imagine coming to OC and seeing a thread titled "Two more Lolas in '06" in the Champ Car forum? It would be absurd.

One thing I always find interesting is when you watch an ALMS race and there is a battle for position, the announcer will often declare "and the Audi passes the Lola for the lead!", whereas with a Grand-Am race, a similar occurance would probably elicit a response such as "Angelelli overtakes Papis!"

I guess what is nice is that since the two series aren't in direct competition with each other, those who like sports car racing for the cars can watch ALMS, and those who like it for the driving aspect and the on-track action can watch Grand-Am. And for some people, they can watch both. :thumbup:

[theunions]

To my knowledge the front end/suspension damage Barron incurred was the sole reason for all the laps lost.

I'm now told four of those lost laps were due to the taillights failing.

[nrc]

I'm not busting your balls trav, I just don't understand how those grandstands on the front stretch (at least) aren't full. These posts question not you, but your typical nascar fan who, one would think, would be all over this.

RaceGrrl and I used to go to the 24 just about every year when we lived in Florida during the 80's at the height of the GTP era. Few people ever sat in the stands.

DP is a series where slow, ugly sports racers pretend to be prototypes. It's just a charade to pretend that these should be the top class in a premiere road racing series. For some, a field of promising youngsters, journeymen, and gentlemen racers takes the curse off of it. For me it's no more interesting than former F3000 and F1 drivers racing school buses.

[rosawendel]

The counterpoint is a bit to the south of Daytona.

true. timing worked out better for this. dad said he'd be interested in the other race also though, and i may have some work in the sebring area. hopefully i will be able to go. if not (and even if), still going to mid-ohio.

[extramundane]

What I want to know from the Grand-Am detractors, is why "should" sports car racing be all about the cars?

It shouldn't be all about the cars, nor should it be all about the drivers. Statements such as "Porsche and Ferrari just don't connect with the American people" are as ludicrous as suggesting that the drivers are irrelevant.


One thing that bugs me about ALMS is the total lack of interest in the driver aspect amongst its fans. Go to an ALMS forum during the offseason (or any time), and all they'll talk about are car counts, with no regard for drivers.

Patently untrue, as a quick glance at the first page of threads at the official ALMS forum will confirm.


Could you imagine coming to OC and seeing a thread titled "Two more Lolas in '06" in the Champ Car forum? It would be absurd.

Is "Forsythe 4 car atlantic Team" absurd? How about "Num 9 Hyper Sport Doran Infiniti" or "Grand Am Cup - 85 Cars!"- are those absurd? I mean, the titles don't mention a driver anywhere and 2 of them seem awfully obsessed with car count...

[Sean O'Gorman]

Patently untrue, as a quick glance at the first page of threads at the official ALMS forum will confirm.

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/9084/alms0il.jpg

Only one thread relating to a driver, and the discussion is about his participation in a Grand-Am race.

THESE are the kinds of threads that describe a typical ALMS fan to me:

http://www.americanlemans.com/fanfrenzy/almsforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5575
http://www.americanlemans.com/fanfrenzy/almsforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5942

All anyone seems to care about are what cars show up. Not who is driving, not whether or not they'll be competitive, just if they'll look and sound pretty (which apparently equates to high-tech?).

[Steve99]

All anyone seems to care about are what cars show up.
Well, a bunch of drivers without cars is union meeting, not a race. I suspect all those cars will have drivers in them.

[extramundane]

Only one thread relating to a driver, and the discussion is about his participation in a Grand-Am race.

At the time I posted that message, there were quite a few more. Most of the threads were subsequently moved by some over-exuberant moderators to other sub-fora.

BTW, at this moment, I only see 1 driver-related thread on the front page of the GARRA forum, and that was started by the driver himself. Damn those Cogs for not caring about drivers!


THESE are the kinds of threads that describe a typical ALMS fan to me:

http://www.americanlemans.com/fanfrenzy/almsforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5575
http://www.americanlemans.com/fanfrenzy/almsforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5942

All anyone seems to care about are what cars show up. Not who is driving, not whether or not they'll be competitive, just if they'll look and sound pretty (which apparently equates to high-tech?).

You're really hung up on these lists, aren't you? In case you haven't figured it out, the cars have to be there first for there to be drivers. BTW, do the GARRA forum-ers who obsessively post the entry list changes comment on the competitiveness of each entry? It's quite simple: All racing series have fans like this. It's not an ALMS phenomenon, nor is it more prevalent amongst their fans, as a quick visit to certain other CCWS forums will prove.

But if it sticks in your craw that much, I've no choice but to encourage the behavior every chance I get. ;)