View Full Version : Your pick: Road America or Las Vegas
jonovision_man
11-29-05, 12:56 PM
Did CCWS do the right thing dumping Vegas for Road America?
Yes.
But I do not want them to dump ovals. More, please.
Yes.
ChampCar still needs to add more ovals, though.
Just like I said, pitting road course fans against oval fans.
jonovision_man
11-29-05, 01:07 PM
Just like I said, pitting road course fans against oval fans.
That's me, not them. :D
jono
And that's how they wanted it.
WHy couldn't they just add Road America as an extra race? Why not replace San Jose instead? That race was an embarassing joke!
Mike Lawler
11-29-05, 01:15 PM
Did CCWS do the right thing dumping Vegas for Road America?
Start packing its official.................Champ Car World Series Announces 2006 Return to Road America and Departure from Las Vegas Motor Speedway :)
chop456
11-29-05, 01:29 PM
And that's how they wanted it.
WHy couldn't they just add Road America as an extra race? Why not replace San Jose instead? That race was an embarassing joke!
An embarassing, profitable joke.
It's trading one track rental for another. They made a good trade.
RA hands down, but I like the visibility of Vegas if they can manage a street fest under the lights.
-Kevin
Opposite Lock
11-29-05, 01:45 PM
Best news day since January 28, 2004! :thumbup:
No question CC is still looking to stay/get back to the Las Vegas market, but Johnson says it needs to be a suitable opportunity more in line with their business model. What does that sound like to you?
I don't see Road America as being in line with the business model, but I'm glad it's back for at least one year. RA all the way.
If you want an oval, I vote for Gateway.
Jervis Tetch 1
11-29-05, 02:24 PM
Wow! So far it's 32-0 in favour of RA. Guess that's clear cut :thumbup:
CART T. Katz
11-29-05, 05:23 PM
i see it differently:
do i want to trade track with a building presence but a pathetic turnout for a track that was proven in the past to have a diminishing presence and a pathetic turnout?
i would not have traded vegas for road america, domestic road course issue be damned. it was proven in the last few years of the race that attendance was going down at road america. i think it went up at vegas, i'm not sure. if there was the probablility of trading one venue for another, why not trade it for ansan? :thumdown:
this is not to say i don't want road america back. i do want it back, but not under these circumstances. and hopefully vegas comes back the next year with the new chassis and a better wing package.
btw, we shouldn't go international to race at a track type distinctly american (don't go to lausitz just to have a token superspeedway track), i would push for other domestic ovals. hell, if champcar goes to road america which is essentially in the middle of nowhere (and not part of their urban businessplan ALLEDGEDLY), why not race on the oval in gallatin county which is just in the middle of nowhere as road america.
Wow! So far it's 32-0 in favour of RA. Guess that's clear cut :thumbup:
I didn't vote because I don't think it should be an either or thing.
I don't mind ovals like some, but the crap that went on in Vegas was down right irl CRAP!
trish...no it shouldn't, but it HAD to be. We love to spend other people's money, and if it had to be one or the other they surely made the correct decision. For the 4 who have voted contrary...You don't know what Road America means! :)
I don't see why they couldn't wait until 2007 to add the race as opposed to taking one away right now. At least the lure of new cars may have gotten people out then and it would be ample time to promote the race.
I feel like Vegas was never really given a chance. When I was there, nobody I spoke to even knew a race was taking place. And that goes for the truck race too.
manic mechanic
11-29-05, 07:52 PM
trish...no it shouldn't, but it HAD to be. We love to spend other people's money, and if it had to be one or the other they surely made the correct decision. For the 4 who have voted contrary...You don't know what Road America means! :)
Well. evidently Vegas means more to a few of us than to the rest.
At least it was fun while it lasted. :D
manic
Well, Manic just come on up to NOWHERE land and get yourself some FRESH air. It may not be Vegas, but CC on RA will not disappoint.
trish, back in the day an excuse used by the Irl was that it's organization was justified because it theoretically could be more "nimble" where CART couldn't be.
These are "oval" crocodile tears being shed today...RA is about being "nimble", CCWS style. Stay the course and think strategically, ovals will continue to be part of our heritage, if not immediately think eventually.
FCYTravis
11-29-05, 09:18 PM
This is as big of a landslide as the Grand-Am votes :gomer: :rofl: :thumbup:
When I was there, nobody I spoke to even knew a race was taking place. And that goes for the truck race too.
Being the resident furiner here, an observation by me is that most yanks wouldn't know what was going on in their city if is smacked them in the face. They could be in a bank that was being robbed and be so self absorbed in their own whatever that nothing else exists.
Vegas has so much BS going at any one time I am not surprised that nobody knew there was an event at LVMS. (Apart from the aforementioned "Event Fans")
Al Czervik
11-29-05, 10:15 PM
The following is "IMHO"
Champ car needs to have a successful event at Road America. It is an important part of the heritage.
Champ car needs to have successful events on ovals. It is also an important part of the heritage.
The race at Vegas was too close to "IRL" style racing for my tastes. I'd love to see a packed Milwaukee, Phoenix, Gateway and 1 superspeedway.
We may never get back to the "glory days", but I have faith that the 2 most likely people to get us there are Gerry & Kevin.
Methanolandbrats
11-29-05, 11:18 PM
The following is "IMHO"
Champ car needs to have a successful event at Road America. It is an important part of the heritage.
Champ car needs to have successful events on ovals. It is also an important part of the heritage.
The race at Vegas was too close to "IRL" style racing for my tastes. I'd love to see a packed Milwaukee, Phoenix, Gateway and 1 superspeedway.
We may never get back to the "glory days", but I have faith that the 2 most likely people to get us there are Gerry & Kevin. This is correct. :thumbup:
I am not happy that we have to choose one or the other, but I am more happy that RA is back, than I am sad that we lost LV, even though LV is a race I attend.
Ozarkian
11-30-05, 02:02 AM
The race at Vegas was too close to "IRL" style racing for my tastes. I'd love to see a packed Milwaukee, Phoenix, Gateway and 1 superspeedway.
We may never get back to the "glory days", but I have faith that the 2 most likely people to get us there are Gerry & Kevin.
Agreed, and I like that list.
Lizzerd
11-30-05, 02:44 AM
Losing a high speed oval vs. RA is a no brainer for me.
Although, I would rather LVMS stay on the schedule as well as adding Fontana or MIS. I like the high speed twirlies every now and then.
The bottom line, in my selfish opinion, is if we have to sacrifice LVMS for RA, then bring it on. It's been my favorite road trip every year since '94 that CART/ChampCar has been there (excepting one, in 2000).
Fitti Fan
11-30-05, 12:55 PM
Well. evidently Vegas means more to a few of us than to the rest.
At least it was fun while it lasted. :D
manic
But now the gang has an excuse to come see a race with me and BMEP!!!! :)
Play nice with ISC/NASCAR and get dates at Phoenix and Fontana in 2007.
I was wrong about the amigos. I never thought they'd go back to Road America. I figured they'd play it safe and stick with profitable street courses. Instead, they are taking a chance to improve the series. :thumbup:
Methanolandbrats
11-30-05, 04:24 PM
I was wrong about the amigos. I never thought they'd go back to Road America. I figured they'd play it safe and stick with profitable street courses. Instead, they are taking a chance to improve the series. :thumbup: I guess being hammered daily by fans, teams, drivers and media about the same subject for a year made a point. :)
Hard Driver
11-30-05, 05:16 PM
If it was up to me, I would dump all the ovals. In the past with the Indy 500 and one series, having the variety was good. Now with the rise of NASCAR and even with the Feeble IRL, I would just assume stick with the part that I always prefered, road courses.
Warlock!
11-30-05, 05:28 PM
The following is "IMHO"
Champ car needs to have a successful event at Road America. It is an important part of the heritage.
Champ car needs to have successful events on ovals. It is also an important part of the heritage.
The race at Vegas was too close to "IRL" style racing for my tastes. I'd love to see a packed Milwaukee, Phoenix, Gateway and 1 superspeedway.
We may never get back to the "glory days", but I have faith that the 2 most likely people to get us there are Gerry & Kevin.
Nailed it.
RaceGrrl
11-30-05, 05:46 PM
RA, hands down. If you want a race in Vegas to be successful, you'll have to take it to the people. Most folks who visit Las Vegas are not willing to go far off the strip for their entertainment. Until the series is stronger, any other kind of race in LV is not viable, IMO.
Perhaps I'm just too old and selfish to care about ovals any more ...
See you all at ROAD AMERICA, the place where Champ Car show their best!!
jonovision_man
11-30-05, 06:35 PM
This poll pretty much went as I would have expected... overwhelming support for Road America even if it means shedding an oval.
Good job CCWS. Now pack the place and make it a permanent success. :thumbup:
jono
Al Czervik
11-30-05, 11:36 PM
This poll pretty much went as I would have expected... overwhelming support for Road America even if it means shedding an oval.
Good job CCWS. Now pack the place and make it a permanent success. :thumbup:
jono
Its not the oval vs. road course. Its the worst oval vs. the best road course. Run a poll if we'd trade New Hampshire '93 for San Jose '05.
I agree, though. Pack the place and make it a permanent success!
Lizzerd
12-01-05, 01:25 AM
Well. evidently Vegas means more to a few of us than to the rest.
At least it was fun while it lasted. :D
manic
Start checking airline prices. I'm sorry to see a big oval go too, and not just for your sake. You left coasters should come to fly-over country and see the real America. Not to mention the greatest road course on the continent. Start saving your pocket change now!
One year without RA was a real let down. I'm stoked for it.
jonovision_man
12-01-05, 09:23 AM
Its not the oval vs. road course. Its the worst oval vs. the best road course. Run a poll if we'd trade New Hampshire '93 for San Jose '05.
That's true.
jono
Methanolandbrats
12-01-05, 10:00 AM
Its not the oval vs. road course. Its the worst oval vs. the best road course. Run a poll if we'd trade New Hampshire '93 for San Jose '05.Good point. That was a great race........and season :thumbup:
Lux Interior
12-02-05, 08:15 AM
I'd like to see about 4 ovals: .5 mile, mile, 1.5 mile, and a 2 mile. Add 14 road and street courses to that and you will produce a true all around champ.
Of course, first and foremost they need to race where they are going to make money so the series can survive. Racing where you take a loss is no good at all no matter which track it is.
RA, hands down. If you want a race in Vegas to be successful, you'll have to take it to the people. Most folks who visit Las Vegas are not willing to go far off the strip for their entertainment. Until the series is stronger, any other kind of race in LV is not viable, IMO.
There are roughly 2 million people in the Las Vegas Metropolitan Area. Less than 6 million live in the entire state of Wisconsin.
There are certainly more people that live close to the track in Vegas than there are near Road America.
So I don't think tourists should be looked at. The thing is that people that live in Vegas must not care much about Champ Car. Its not important enough to draw a big local crowd, let alone the tourists.
So whether that problem is with the style of racing, the track setup for CC in LV, the lack of interest for it, I don't know. But the problem is certainly not that its a 1/2 hour drive from the Strip to the Track.
I wonder if Vegas were not an oval, but a nice road course, how attendance and interest would be.
edit:
Plus look at the competition in Vegas for entertainment. Something is always going on in that city. Champ Car isnt competing with other racing there, but they are competing with every casino, sports book, and show that the city holds.
jonovision_man
12-02-05, 11:43 AM
Plus look at the competition in Vegas for entertainment. Something is always going on in that city. Champ Car isnt competing with other racing there, but they are competing with every casino, sports book, and show that the city holds.
This is a good point.
Look at Edmonton, city of less than 1 million, and they pack the place. Why? Not a lot happens in Edmonton. I used to live there... seriously, U2 came and packed a 60,000 seat stadium TWICE, when they only had one show in Toronto with a population 5 times bigger...
jono
There are roughly 2 million people in the Las Vegas Metropolitan Area. Less than 6 million live in the entire state of Wisconsin.
There are certainly more people that live close to the track in Vegas than there are near Road America.
That's why they need to market into the Twin Cities, N. Illinois (ie., Chicago) areas. I'm going.
edit:
Plus look at the competition in Vegas for entertainment. Something is always going on in that city. Champ Car isnt competing with other racing there, but they are competing with every casino, sports book, and show that the city holds.Locals don't do the shows, gambling, etc., as much as you may think. My aunt and cousin tell me so.
I used to live there... seriously, U2 came and packed a 60,000 seat stadium TWICE, when they only had one show in Toronto with a population 5 times bigger...
It's hard to match the spectacle of Bono's enormous ego.
I hope they do market to those areas. I hope they have a lot of bus/hotel/ticket packages provided for a lot of the nearby major cities. But still, its not nearly as easy as driving around 215 past the air force base and coming up on the track.
While not permanent residents, I have spent a significant amount of time in Vegas over the last year and a half. While locals dont go gambling every friday night, they certainly have a lot more opportunity for fun than in the middle of Wisconsin.
Methanolandbrats
12-02-05, 02:15 PM
While not permanent residents, I have spent a significant amount of time in Vegas over the last year and a half. While locals dont go gambling every friday night, they certainly have a lot more opportunity for fun than in the middle of Wisconsin.Depends on what you call fun.
Depends on what you call fun.
tipping cows is a sport, dammit! :D
LV is becoming another southwestern sprawlopolis, there's plenty of residents to market to, you'd figure a city that sized w/ no major pro-teams would be easy pickings, guess not
Cow tipping and don't forget snipe hunting.
Stu, make the trek up for RA and I'll take you snipe hunting. Heck, you seem pretty cool; I'll even let you be the first one to bag one!
Snipe hunting? Is it anything like this?
http://www.videogamecritic.net/images/nes/duck_hunt.gif
I'd like to go, just got to work out potential scheduling conflicts.
oddlycalm
12-02-05, 03:44 PM
Champ car needs to have a successful event at Road America. It is an important part of the heritage.
Champ car needs to have successful events on ovals. It is also an important part of the heritage.
The race at Vegas was too close to "IRL" style racing for my tastes. I'd love to see a packed Milwaukee, Phoenix, Gateway and 1 superspeedway.
We may never get back to the "glory days", but I have faith that the 2 most likely people to get us there are Gerry & Kevin. Great summary IMO. A return to RA sends the right message to the fans at a crucial time. Unfortunate that it came at the expense of Las Vegas though. I suspect that all other issues aside, there were some irritating issues with the LV track management that made the decision to drop the race easier to make. Another comment on LV is that if you did a demographic of the crowd I would bet you would find as many or more from California and other states as Las Vegas. Ask youself this questions; if the races at LV in 2004 & 2005 had been as good as the better oval events were in the 80's and early 90's would you still vote the same way...?
CCWS simply needs to fix their approach to ovals to get back to where CART was in the early 90's, not where the EARL was in 2004. Your later comment regarding Loudon in '93 was on target. While there is scant evidence that a market for pointy nosed cars on ovals still exists, I too hold the notion, perhaps unrealistically, that if we could restore the quality of the racing to what it formerly was, we would have a shot at success in at least a couple markets.
BTW, having successful oval events may not be as high on the CCWS request list as RA was, but it's near the top. CCWS has shown more than once that they can listen, learn, adjust and react, so lets hope they can make RA a commercial success and do the same with some good ovals as well. :thumbup:
oc
Sean O'Gorman
12-02-05, 04:22 PM
I'd like to go, just got to work out potential scheduling conflicts.
But you told me you didn't want to go because Wisconsin sucks. :saywhat:
If I'm not in Topeka for SCCA that weekend I'm going, and you better too. :thumbup:
While not permanent residents, I have spent a significant amount of time in Vegas over the last year and a half. While locals dont go gambling every friday night, they certainly have a lot more opportunity for fun than in the middle of Wisconsin.
Wake up at 7-8 AM to watch race cars until 5-6 PM, then eat and drink yourself into oblivion the rest of the night. What more do you need?
Methanolandbrats
12-02-05, 04:33 PM
[QUOTE=Sean O'Gorman]But you told me you didn't want to go because Wisconsin sucks.[QUOTE]
I"ve sure heard a lot of that before. When I was in school at UW-Madison many people from both coasts would come here to go to school. At first they would tell me what a bunch of rubes we were, nothing to do, etc....one ahole from Boston told me we "did'nt have any history". The funny thing was many of them ended up living here because they liked it so much. We have more cab drivers with PhDs than anywhere else in the country. :)
Sean O'Gorman
12-02-05, 04:47 PM
Yeah I get the same thing from Ank because I was born and raised in Cleveland, not New Jersey...err, Texas. :laugh:
I could never spend more than a race weekend in Wisconsin though.
Methanolandbrats
12-02-05, 04:49 PM
I could never spend more than a race weekend in Wisconsin though.
Good! ;)
Yeah I get the same thing from Ank because I was born and raised in Cleveland, not New Jersey...err, Texas. :laugh:
I could never spend more than a race weekend in Wisconsin though.
Cleveland is a rustbelt hole. :gomer:
Try leaving the region sometime, life tends to get interesting when you do that regularly ;)
I"ve sure heard a lot of that before. When I was in school at UW-Madison many people from both coasts would come here to go to school. At first they would tell me what a bunch of rubes we were, nothing to do, etc....one ahole from Boston told me we "did'nt have any history". The funny thing was many of them ended up living here because they liked it so much. We have more cab drivers with PhDs than anywhere else in the country. :)[/QUOTE]
Well, that just goes to show what a UW Phd will do fer ya. :gomer: :D
:runs:
Wishconsin ain't so bad if you can stomach the cold...and the snow...and the state bird (skeeters). Very intertesting terrain up that way.
-Kevin
But you told me you didn't want to go because Wisconsin sucks. :saywhat:
If I'm not in Topeka for SCCA that weekend I'm going, and you better too. :thumbup:
Wake up at 7-8 AM to watch race cars until 5-6 PM, then eat and drink yourself into oblivion the rest of the night. What more do you need?
Prostitutes?
[QUOTE=Sean O'Gorman]But you told me you didn't want to go because Wisconsin sucks.[QUOTE]
I"ve sure heard a lot of that before. When I was in school at UW-Madison many people from both coasts would come here to go to school. At first they would tell me what a bunch of rubes we were, nothing to do, etc....one ahole from Boston told me we "did'nt have any history". The funny thing was many of them ended up living here because they liked it so much. We have more cab drivers with PhDs than anywhere else in the country. :)
hmm.... now that I think about it. UW-Milwaukee is one of our Rivals. The Horizon League version of OSU Michigan. :gomer:
Methanolandbrats
12-02-05, 07:02 PM
hmm.... now that I think about it. UW-Milwaukee is one of our Rivals. The Horizon League version of OSU Michigan. :gomer: Huh? You talking hoops? Rival who?
Huh? You talking hoops? Rival who?
CSU. Cocaine State U. :gomer:
-Kevin
Methanolandbrats
12-02-05, 07:30 PM
CSU. Cocaine State U. :gomer:
-KevinOh, you mean UNLV.
Oh, you mean UNLV.
Well, then there's that. ;) Cleveland State's hoopies coach, Kevin Mackey, was busted for cocaine sumthin' or other in the mid-90s. :shakehead
-Kevin
pkvracing12
12-02-05, 09:23 PM
Good to see RA back
sad to see lvms go
if we get an oval hopefully its IMS under new ownership by kk :)
Good to see RA back
sad to see lvms go
if we get an oval hopefully its IMS under new ownership by kk :)
who cares who owns it as long as its not TG.
Dan Gilbert should buy it.
jonovision_man
12-02-05, 09:52 PM
if we get an oval hopefully its IMS under new ownership by kk :)
I can't imagine what IMS is worth... I don't think KK has THAT much in his wallet! :eek:
jono
Anteater
12-02-05, 11:30 PM
You left coasters should come to fly-over country and see the real America. Not to mention the greatest road course on the continent.
This left-coaster plans to be at RA in '06--I already have my hotel reservations! :cool: Can't wait to see the Champ Cars run on that magnificent roadcourse.
I won't miss the Vegas race; aside from the CCIC events and hangin' with my racing buddies, it was a pretty miserable experience. The track management and security goons treated us like garbage, and the race was a snoozefest! The whole experience made me realize how much I miss the Fontana race, and I hope the Three Amigos can figure out a way to get CCWS back there with the new chassis in '07. In the meantime, I'm delighted that RA is on the sched for '06.
I'm glad about RA and would love to see Gateway added back onto the schedule.
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