Honda to field 2nd team and buy out BAR

[oddlycalm]

Autosport is reporting that Honda has revealed they will form and new F1 team, that Sato will be one of the drivers, and that they are now 100% owners of what has been the BAR team but will be the Honda team going forward and new sponsors will be announce.

I have to say, I didn't see this one coming.

oc

[KLang]

They need something to do with the money they won't be spending on the earl. :p

[Andrew Longman]

With the new chassis rules you'll see many teams running a "junior" team. They are someone to "sell" chassis to and spread the R&D investment around.

That's why Minardi got bought, but in their case they are at a premium because only existing franchises get a share of the F1 money. New teams reportedly get a much smaller/no piece of the pie.

But I think BE has lowered the team entry fee to make it more possible to add teams.

As for BAR I think the tobacco writing was on the wall and they needed to get out . And Honda is looking over at Toyota and likely feels they need to have there own wholly owned team too.

I have to say though there is a ton about the F1 business world that is a mystery to me.

[jonovision_man]

With the new chassis rules you'll see many teams running a "junior" team. They are someone to "sell" chassis to and spread the R&D investment around.

That's why Minardi got bought, but in their case they are at a premium because only existing franchises get a share of the F1 money. New teams reportedly get a much smaller/no piece of the pie.


The selling chassis rule won't come into effect until 2007, so I'm not sure how Honda plans to skirt the rules. From what I can tell, they can sell their old plans, but the new team has to construct the chassis from scratch.

And as far as prize distribution goes, I was always under the impression it was down to where you finish in the constructor's championship. Top 10 get money, the rest don't.

Unfortunately it's all covered in the Concorde Agreement, which is top secret. :p But sometimes they leak this stuff in press conferences, so maybe there's some quotes out there to clear it up.

jono

[jonovision_man]

Whoo-hoo, I found this a long time ago, forgot about it! Thanks, google. :)

If this is right, then it does take into account longevity in the sport and past performance. Minardi would be worth a little more.

http://www.concordeagreement.com/

http://www.concordeagreement.com/Schedule10.html


The revenue from TV rights is partially distributed to teams using a points system derived from historical performances.
It is believed that points are awarded for:

* Placing in the constructors' championship (last three years) ("column one")
* Number of years in Formula One (1 year = 4 points, 10 years = 165 points, Ferrari's 50 years = 1200 points) ("column two")
* Number of constructors' titles (25 points each)
* Number of constructors' championship points (last two years x 2)
* Number of constructors' championship points (all-time / 10)
* Number of wins in last two years (10 points each)
* All-time number of wins (1 point each)

Teams with points get a proportional share of the money. There is also a separate pool of money distributed based
on the previous year's constructors' championship.
[21]

There also appears to be a seperately listed prize pool for transportation - available only to teams which score
points in the previous half year.

The pool of money distributed based on the previous years constructors championship is described by Ron Dennis:

But to give you a round figure, just round figures, the team who wins
the World Championship - so not any specific nominated team, the team that
wins the World Championship in the preceding year - versus the team that
is the last in the World Championship of the preceding year, receives
double the amount of money. And the money is not huge, in round figures
$22 million to $11 million. You might not feel that that is particularly
equitable but maybe you all will be quite surprised that the spread, and
it's relatively equalised-out in increments from the tenth team to the first team.

jono

[jonovision_man]

Oh and there's this that addresses the "selling chassis" thing:


Clause 10.1
Only a constructor (defined in Schedule 3) may enter a car, unless clause 10.4 applies.

But then they didn't know what 10.4 was... frustrating.

Anyway, schedule 3 says:


Definition of Constructor

A constructor is defined as a person, whether or not incorporated, "who owns the intellectual property rights to the
rolling chassis it currently races.."

[FailureByDesign]

I hope the Sato thing works out,because F1 would be frigging boring without him.IMO

[Andrew Longman]

Of course I can't find it but when Minardi was bought there was an article around that talked about the importance of buying an existing team because existing franchises will get more a greater share of the F1 pie. My impression that was separate from the TV and transportation money. This was to avoid diluting the value of current franchises.

Either way, the Concorde Agreement and all the ways money gets moved around in F1 makes no obvious sense except to the people involved.

[oddlycalm]

Oh and there's this that addresses the "selling chassis" thing: Simpler than that is to simply sell whoever fronts the new team the intellectual rights to the 2005 BAR chassis and let them construct it "themselves." All they need is a single year solution as in 2007 it will be legal to buy a chassis as I understand it. Also, the $42 million deposit is still in effect for new teams, but that too will phase out soon.

Apparently Honda has a group in mind to front the operation for them as Sato has said he's been contacted by them. Apparently the only reason we are hearing any of this now is to damp the anger of the Suzuka crowds over Sato being dropped by the team.

oc

[jonovision_man]

Simpler than that is to simply sell whoever fronts the new team the intellectual rights to the 2005 BAR chassis and let them construct it "themselves." All they need is a single year solution as in 2007 it will be legal to buy a chassis as I understand it. Also, the $42 million deposit is still in effect for new teams, but that too will phase out soon.

Apparently Honda has a group in mind to front the operation for them as Sato has said he's been contacted by them. Apparently the only reason we are hearing any of this now is to damp the anger of the Suzuka crowds over Sato being dropped by the team.

oc

The way I read that snipette from the Concorde Agreement, they may not even have to do that.

It just says "who owns the intellectual property rights to the
rolling chassis it currently races"

It doesn't seem to say you actually have to build it... so BAR could pump out a few extra chassis if need be from their existing factories and sell them along with the intellectual property rights to "new team".

jono

[Jervis Tetch 1]

Great stuff Jonovision. Great stuff. :thumbup: