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View Full Version : Some thoughts on Vegas P2P and aero package



pchall
09-20-05, 04:52 PM
CC tech director quoted by David Phillips (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9656)

"Because Las Vegas is basically a flat out race," Elkins continues, "we've set it on a timer. So one (application) will last ten seconds regardless of the throttle petal position."...

"So on a road course you can activate the power to pass and try to use that to do some overtaking going into a corner, because there's a braking zone or something like that. We don't have braking zones at Las Vegas, so this (ten second increments) seemed to be the most efficient way to use it."

Elkins believes applying the power-to-pass in ten second increments, and disengaging it by the timer rather than the conventional methods, will throw a new twist into race strategy.

I sure as hell hope there is a way to override the timer in extraordinary circumstances. What happens if the driver needs to lift and brake when coming up on an accident?

On a more positive note, Elkins has been paying attention to the chassis rake induced problems in IRL setups:

"Because it is our only speedway oval," says Elkins, "we've created a ..maximum front ride height rule so that they can only raise the nose up a particular amount and we've limited the amount of right rear camber they're allowed to run."

Other than that it's road course front and rear wings and the oval low downforce tunnels just like last year:

"The rear wing, the main plane and the flap are exactly the same (as street and road courses) and are required to be in exactly the same configuration as on a road or street course. But what we've done is reduced the size of the endplate. It is a very specified endplate and must fit a template."

The smaller endplates will probably reduce the effectivess of the rear wing somewhat and let some more turbulent air spill off the airfoil. Note that "exactly the same configuration as on a road or street course" seems to preclude running a negative angle of attack the way IRL cars do at Indy. Too bad they don't all have the old speedway aero pieces. I'd like to see the speedway nose wings with that rear.

indyfan31
09-20-05, 05:55 PM
I sure as hell hope there is a way to override the timer in extraordinary circumstances. What happens if the driver needs to lift and brake when coming up on an accident?


The way it works (there) is the driver activates the power-to-pass button (and) it stays activated until they do one of a couple of things; they either hit the brake or let off the throttle, then the power to pass disengages.

coolhand
09-20-05, 06:46 PM
I sure as hell hope there is a way to override the timer in extraordinary circumstances. What happens if the driver needs to lift and brake when coming up on an accident?

the ten second timer is only for the maximum on, it still can be shut of by conventual braking and lifting the throttle. the 10 seconds is there onlybecause they dont lift under normal conditions. its only under the normal circumstance that the timer is on.

pchall
09-20-05, 07:11 PM
Quote:

The way it works (there) is the driver activates the power-to-pass button (and) it stays activated until they do one of a couple of things; they either hit the brake or let off the throttle, then the power to pass disengages.




The complete context of the quoted material above reads:

""On the street circuits and road courses our power-to-pass procedure is very different. The way it works (there) is the driver activates the power-to-pass button (and) it stays activated until they do one of a couple of things; they either hit the brake or let off the throttle, then the power to pass disengages.

"Because Las Vegas is basically a flat out race," Elkins continues, "we've set it on a timer. So one (application) will last ten seconds regardless of the throttle petal position."


The parenthetical "there" indicates the road/street configuration, not the oval application as Elkins describes it. I still do not see any a mention of how the P2P timer is overridden at LVMS. I still am concerned that procedure as Elkins describes it is potentially dangerous.

coolhand
09-20-05, 07:35 PM
ok, so if they need to hit the brake it will shut it off.

Chief
09-20-05, 10:12 PM
It's greater boost/HP available, not a locked throttle in 100% position for 10 seconds. If the throttle is lifted and turbo spools down it still has the capability to spool up to the P2P "boosted" position for whatever time was remaining of the 10 secs. Braking apparently cancels the 10 secs. Right?

indyfan31
09-20-05, 11:00 PM
It's greater boost/HP available, not a locked throttle in 100% position for 10 seconds. If the throttle is lifted and turbo spools down it still has the capability to spool up to the P2P "boosted" position for whatever time was remaining of the 10 secs. Braking apparently cancels the 10 secs. Right?
Thank you chief.

pchall. 50 more HP at 0% throttle is still ZERO, I don't see what's so hard about that. Why would anybody think that someone would design a car where the driver gives up control of the throttle for 10 seconds????

grungex
09-20-05, 11:12 PM
The normal street/road P2P is available for as long as the driver keeps his foot in it. If a driver has used up 59 seconds of P2P, and hits the button at the beginning of a straight, he will get as many seconds of P2P as it takes to get to the point at which he lifts off the throttle, even though he only has "one" second left. The Vegas setup kills it after 10 seconds, or when he lifts, whichever comes first. Or so I believe.

manic mechanic
09-21-05, 12:36 AM
The complete context of the quoted material above reads:

""On the street circuits and road courses our power-to-pass procedure is very different. The way it works (there) is the driver activates the power-to-pass button (and) it stays activated until they do one of a couple of things; they either hit the brake or let off the throttle, then the power to pass disengages.

"Because Las Vegas is basically a flat out race," Elkins continues, "we've set it on a timer. So one (application) will last ten seconds regardless of the throttle petal position."


The parenthetical "there" indicates the road/street configuration, not the oval application as Elkins describes it. I still do not see any a mention of how the P2P timer is overridden at LVMS. I still am concerned that procedure as Elkins describes it is potentially dangerous.

Hey doc,

It takes 3 seconds (give or take) for the backstraight at Vegas to be done...maybe 5 1/2 for the tri-oval. If they have 10 seconds at a dose, they'd better be ready for the white knuckler or waste 4-6 seconds of good stuff.
I'd say some drivers will need to "step up", and some will need to "judge the situation" to make it effective.

I'd like to see a more "progressive" map to P2P in Vegas, but this is all a work in progress with overdownforced cars. Give 'em a better aero package (or at least a few tweaks) and the current map could provide some good racing.

Foolish to make a judgement until after this experiment, IMHO.

Just my take...

manic :thumbup:

pchall
09-21-05, 09:56 AM
I'd like to see a more "progressive" map to P2P in Vegas, but this is all a work in progress with overdownforced cars. Give 'em a better aero package (or at least a few tweaks) and the current map could provide some good racing.

Foolish to make a judgement until after this experiment, IMHO.

Just my take...

manic :thumbup:

Elkins' description made it seem like a pretty dubious set up to me... and I still have my doubts.

Any thoughts about the aerodynamic tweaks and limits Elkins mentioned, manic?