View Full Version : Molson To Dump Toronto & Montreal?
Link (http://torontosun.canoe.ca/Sports/OtherSports/2005/09/09/1208804-sun.html)
There have been rumours in the advertising and promotion industry recently that Molson may be getting ready to end its long-time partnership with Champ Car at its two premier racing events -- the Toronto Molson Indy and the Molson Indy Montreal -- and replace them with NASCAR races.
Anyone else hear this?
Ted
Rogue Leader
09-09-05, 09:36 AM
Considering Molstar entertainment is producing Champ Car TV this year, they seem to have stepped up their involvement (excluding losing vancouver). Also Coors (Big in Nascar) is their american sister company. I seriously doubt it...
devilmaster
09-09-05, 09:41 AM
ahhh.... McNutty.
ahhh.... McNutty.
Trust McNulty to write the story with the darkest possible anti-Champ Car spin.
jonovision_man
09-09-05, 10:13 AM
Trust McNulty to write the story with the darkest possible anti-Champ Car spin.
And burry that little nugget deep within a story about trucks... I don't think he has a scoop here, or it'd have been his headline.
jono
Seems McNulty has been doing this alot lately. What is his beef with Champ Car? Part of the unification gang?
But Gordon Kirby is hinting at the same rumor...
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8696
Rabbit's post (#19) shows a bit of D&G from Kirby.
jonovision_man
09-09-05, 10:47 AM
But Gordon Kirby is hinting at the same rumor...
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8696
Rabbit's post (#19) shows a bit of D&G from Kirby.
Montreal, quite possibly, sounded like this year was a mess. And Molson isn't the promoter there.
Toronto? I don't buy it.
jono
trauma1
09-09-05, 11:23 AM
McNutty is a horses ass, he's on the level of tony johns, this guy makes up more BS and anti ccws than cavin, , 1st molson is only a sponsor, ccws has the contract for the race, if molson pulls out ccws would just have to find another sponsor, NL is a $$ whore, the idiots at crackforum now believe that earl is going to get both toronto and montreal , per wilkie. just why would a track want earl with GM, toyota and honda gone
McNutty is a horses ass, he's on the level of tony johns, this guy makes up more BS and anti ccws than cavin, , 1st molson is only a sponsor, ccws has the contract for the race, if molson pulls out ccws would just have to find another sponsor, NL is a $$ whore, the idiots at crackforum now believe that earl is going to get both toronto and montreal , per wilkie. just why would a track want earl with GM, toyota and honda gone
I thought Molson was the promoter for both events. No?
Ted
jonovision_man
09-09-05, 12:50 PM
I thought Molson was the promoter for both events. No?
Ted
Toronto only.
Montreal's promoter is Legault. Possibly CCWS co-promotes, I've heard conflicting information on that.
jono
Molson is the promoter for Toronto. They could run greyhounds there if they wanted. But I don't think hard core fans would be too happy. If they stopped drinking Molson's.... Also, most casual fans know the event as the "Molson Indy" so they'd lose a lot if they couldn't call it that.
Molson would be dumb to do it; thye'd piss off the hard core and confuse the casual fan. But head office is in colorado now. If the Frances really wanted it, they could probably make Coors an offer they couldn't refuse.
TorontoWorker
09-09-05, 01:13 PM
Yes he's up to his old pro NASCAR slant.
I talked to a NASCAR official who was invited by Molson (for the last two years) to the Molson Indy this year. He stood by me at corner 3 during the CASCAR race shaking his head. I asked him what was troubling him? He replied, "This is crazy..." (He meant racing stock cars at Toronto)
The long and short of it is:
- The Toronto Molson Indy is a money maker.
- The BIG fee to NASCAR will reduce this profit.
- NASCAR are not high on this style of this track, (Toronto)
- Mosport is 1 hour away and can easly hold 100K plus. They just had 75K
for the ALMS race with room to spare.
- Myles Brandt (Mosport President) has stated that what ever NASCAR
wants - it gets if it wants to race at Mosport.
- Mosport is very close to an agreement for NASCAR, perhaps as soon
as 2006 for Trucks and 07 for Busch. After that... Cup cars?
- One sticking point is for debris fencing to cover the WHOLE track along
track walls/armco. However: Both Durham Region and the Ontario
Government have stated that they may fund such items. Local government
officials are loath to give money away for marketing or *vapour* uses, but
hard *structure* of a *permanent nature* are what they look for. A
direct track upgrade or a commitment to the highway 407 extension
through to Mosport and beyond to HWY 115 is currently under discussion
between 3 layers of Government. While the Municipality of Clarington does
not have much money, (tax base small) it did mention signage upgrades as
one area they can take care of very quickly.
- The truck series seems to be a first start from what I have heard. We
already have an ex Craftsmen truck running in Regional racing without
problems - and he is quick as heck at that.
- Don Panos mentioned at the ALMS race that we will make "major changes"
to the track facilities *soon*. I've heard from a staff member that this will
include paving most of the infield from behind the pits up to the infield
washrooms, (new ones as well).
- NASCAR officials have been to Mosport 4 times this year already.
- The same company that put up the temp grandstands for the Audi,
Corvette and Porsche people at the ALMS weekend were out looking around
at other corners...
- In the past, Molson has sponsored race events at Mosport before, esspy
during the Harvey Hudes ownership days. During the rain of error with Andy
Evans, Molsons almost bought Mosport.
- It would only make *cents* for Mosport and Molsons to do a deal for both
parties. Molsons would get two events that would be well supported and
neither of them would be a threat marketing wise to each other.
- Forget Montreal - it's all smoke and mirrors. It's about Molson using this
track to drive a better price out of Mosport. There are more NASCAR fans in
Oshawa (Home to two GM plants) then all of Quebec. When you add in the
Toronto and GTA area of 4.5 million people, the est of fans that would
attend is - staggering... I was told that if Mosport gets any sort of NASCAR
event; you had better plan on camping because you won't want to drive
back and forth every night!
- NASCAR Canada's offices are located... in the GTA.
- Mc Nutty has issues I won't get into, but sufice to say he would be the
LAST guy in town with any *accurate* news. He is also an open wheel
hater. Some of his funniest pieces are when he writes about F1. He takes
one little comment from Seebass and runs with it. Every driver wants to
"look around", more so during contract time knowing team owners read
newspapers...
- Forget Montreal - it's all smoke and mirrors. It's about Molson using this
track to drive a better price out of Mosport. There are more NASCAR fans in
Oshawa (Home to two GM plants) then all of Quebec.
So, Champ Car just got caught in the middle of a track fight over NASCAR? How far will Molson pull down Montreal to get Mosport?
TorWor, thanks! Great post.
Facts, opinion, whatever, very interesting! :thumbup:
jonovision_man
09-09-05, 02:04 PM
- Forget Montreal - it's all smoke and mirrors. It's about Molson using this
track to drive a better price out of Mosport. There are more NASCAR fans in
Oshawa (Home to two GM plants) then all of Quebec. When you add in the
Toronto and GTA area of 4.5 million people, the est of fans that would
attend is - staggering... I was told that if Mosport gets any sort of NASCAR
event; you had better plan on camping because you won't want to drive
back and forth every night!
- NASCAR Canada's offices are located... in the GTA.
For those of you from outside Toronto, the GTA is the "Greater Toronto Area". :)
And I agree with you, I just can't see how Montreal could possibly be considered a better fit than Mosport. I live in Whitby, next to Oshawa, it's GM land over here big-time, and as you mentionned it's butted up against the biggest metropolitan area in the country.
jono
TorontoWorker
09-09-05, 03:20 PM
For those of you from outside Toronto, the GTA is the "Greater Toronto Area". :)
And I agree with you, I just can't see how Montreal could possibly be considered a better fit than Mosport. I live in Whitby, next to Oshawa, it's GM land over here big-time, and as you mentionned it's butted up against the biggest metropolitan area in the country.
jono
Plus: Two GM plants in Oshawa, a tranny plant in St. Catharines and parts suppliers all over Ontario. Two FORD plants, one in Oakville, one in St. Thomas and an engine plant In Windsor. Two Chrysler plants, one in Brampton, one in Windsor and parts plants elsewhere in Ontario. All within 3.5 hours of Mosport - some within 15 minutes! We won't even count the Magna operations either. That's gotta be 100K built in race fans right there! And if they start off with the truck series we have a Toyota plant here and a second one the way... Quebec has how many car plants...? No more Camero...
NASCAR WILL happen in Ontario - it's just about the money and where now.
Scary when a guy on the Internet makes a lot more sense than a so called journalist.
trauma1
09-09-05, 03:32 PM
he's not called mcnutty for nothing :rofl:
devilmaster
09-09-05, 04:06 PM
Scary when a guy on the Internet makes a lot more sense than a so called journalist.
Even calling him a 'so called journalist' is insulting to 'so called journalists'. ;)
jonovision_man
09-09-05, 04:33 PM
Plus: Two GM plants in Oshawa, a tranny plant in St. Catharines and parts suppliers all over Ontario. Two FORD plants, one in Oakville, one in St. Thomas and an engine plant In Windsor. Two Chrysler plants, one in Brampton, one in Windsor and parts plants elsewhere in Ontario. All within 3.5 hours of Mosport - some within 15 minutes! We won't even count the Magna operations either. That's gotta be 100K built in race fans right there! And if they start off with the truck series we have a Toyota plant here and a second one the way... Quebec has how many car plants...? No more Camero...
NASCAR WILL happen in Ontario - it's just about the money and where now.
This says it all...
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0507/16/autos-249603.htm
Ontario eclipses Michigan in auto production
Michigan last year alone built roughly 2.6 million Chevrolet Silverados, Ford Mustangs, Jeep Grand Cherokees and a host of other models. But that wasn't enough to hold off neighboring Ontario, Canada, long a car-building center but largely in Detroit's shadow. Separated from Michigan by lakes Huron, St. Clair and Superior and an occasional river, Ontario produced nearly 103,000 more vehicles than Michigan last year.
(Interestingly and completely OT, they cite our public health care system as a big benefit, since they don't have to cover private insurance... who'd have thunk it?)
jono
coolhand
09-09-05, 05:38 PM
I bet its cheaper right now for them to build cars in Canada.
I dont know what the labou laws are like up there but the Canadian government might be giving them a break to work up there.
devilmaster
09-09-05, 06:59 PM
I dont know what the labou laws are like up there but the Canadian government might be giving them a break to work up there.
The CDN Gov't is famous for not giving breaks... In fact, the CAW has been pushing for the gov't to do that, since jobs have been lost to the southern states who are giving huge tax breaks.
Jono has it right. Public health care in Canada is a major selling point, especially to a company like GM who has has been asking for the UAW to give up some health care concessions....
coolhand
09-09-05, 07:11 PM
The CDN Gov't is famous for not giving breaks... In fact, the CAW has been pushing for the gov't to do that, since jobs have been lost to the southern states who are giving huge tax breaks.
Jono has it right. Public health care in Canada is a major selling point, especially to a company like GM who has has been asking for the UAW to give up some health care concessions....
so in effect the canadian government is giving them a break by not having to pay for employee health care.
devilmaster
09-09-05, 09:14 PM
so in effect the canadian government is giving them a break by not having to pay for employee health care.
Yes. But even that really isn't enough anymore. Companies still co-pay for meds and certain things not covered by OHIP. (ontario health insurance plan)
More and more the auto companies are looking elsewhere from the michigan/ontario auto centres for their plants. And in response, unions are trying to work investment promises into their contracts. (which doesn't mean crap, even if its in the deal.)
Andrew Longman
09-11-05, 09:25 AM
I don't know what it is today, but a few years back the import tarriff into Canada on cars was thousands of dollars.
It was about the only reason the big three built on that side of the Detroit River.
Generally CAW and UAW contracts are pretty similar.
Of course T and H are not unionized on either side of the border.
jonovision_man
09-11-05, 09:51 AM
I don't know what it is today, but a few years back the import tarriff into Canada on cars was thousands of dollars.
It was about the only reason the big three built on that side of the Detroit River.
Generally CAW and UAW contracts are pretty similar.
Of course T and H are not unionized on either side of the border.
Tarriffs don't apply to American or Canadian made cars, due to the Autopact. Just foreign made.
jono
TorontoWorker
09-11-05, 03:19 PM
Tarriffs don't apply to American or Canadian made cars, due to the Autopact. Just foreign made.
jono
Autopact is no more - was replaced with the NAFTA agreement in 92-93
As an aside. Depending on the North American content (%) of the parts that are used and where they came from, Honda, Toyota are also considered "Domestic" cars for purposes of NAFTA. In fact some models of Honda's were designed in the USA and parts were supplied from both countries and the car was built in either Canada or the USA. This is why in a Global economy you can no longer label cars as "German" or "Japanese". Even the Merceedes SUV's are built in America - not Germany and *imported* to Germany!
devilmaster
09-11-05, 05:04 PM
Autopact is no more - was replaced with the NAFTA agreement in 92-93
Autopact was still in effect, but was ruled unfair by a world trade court round 99-00, IIRC....
I may be wrong, its been a while since I had to think about the 5 or so years while I was an autoworker.... I'm trying to repress it. ;)
jonovision_man
09-11-05, 07:46 PM
My bad... didn't realize NAFTA had trumped the Autopact.
jono
cameraman
09-12-05, 01:26 AM
Getting back to the Montreal race, did anyone watch Speed News when Robin Miller said that the IRL was going to run Montreal next year. He comment was "gentlemen, start your lawyers"....
Getting back to the Montreal race, did anyone watch Speed News when Robin Miller said that the IRL was going to run Montreal next year. He comment was "gentlemen, start your lawyers"....
If they want us fine; if they don't, move on.
trauma1
09-13-05, 11:33 AM
quess what , it was a pack of BS NL put out a news release today refutiating any story that EARL will get a race there, FTG, and EARL loseing 3 tracks ha ha
IRL won't replace Champ Car in Montreal In response to rumors emanating from the specialized motorsport press, here and elsewhere in North America, Mr. Normand Legault, president and chief executive officer of GPF1 Inc., has issued the following clarifications today, concerning the presentation by his group of motorsport events in 2006 on the Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve:
No contractual agreement exists between any enterprises in the GPF1 Inc. group and promoters of the Indy Racing League, Nextel Cup, Busch Series and Craftsman Truck Series championships for the presentation of an event in Montreal in 2006, nor even, at this date, for subsequent years;
The contract binding our group to Champ Car World Series foresees the presentation of a round of that championship in Montreal in 2006, a round already included in the calendar recently made public by the organizers of the championship;
We want to take this occasion to state that, contrary to what has been reported by certain media, during and since the recent Molson Indy Montreal, the organization - with the cooperation of its sponsor - devoted a significantly higher budget to the promotion of the event, as well as increased advertising and publicity efforts, than for any of the three previous editions. These investments were supported by the cooperation and availability of drivers Alexandre Tagliani and Andrew Ranger and their sponsors, both with the media and with the hundreds of fans they met during summer tours of several Quebec towns.
While awaiting publication by the FIA of the definitive calendar for the 2006 Formula 1 world championship, our group is busy preparing for the 2006 Grand Prix of Canada, which it again expects to be a success. GPF1
Autoracing1. com..
jonovision_man
09-13-05, 11:38 AM
Yeah, here's the TSN link:
http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_story.asp?ID=136201&hubName=
Legault denies IRL deal for Montreal
9/13/2005 10:20:46 AM
Officials with GPF1 Inc., which organizes motorsport events in Montreal, are denying reports of a tentative deal with the Indy Racing League to stage a race on Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve in 2006.
"No contractual agreement exists between any enterprises in the GPF1 Inc. group and promoters of the Indy Racing League, Nextel Cup, Busch Series and Craftsman Truck Series championships for the presentation of an event in Montreal in 2006, nor even, at this date, for subsequent years," said Normand Legault, president of GPF1 Inc.
At least one report over the weekend claimed the IRL was prepared to race in Montreal next year and that the delay in their 2006 schedule was due to finalization of this agreement with Legault and Montreal officials.
The report went on to state that the IRL race would replace the Champ Car series, which has raced in Montreal since 2002.
Reports of Champ Car's demise in Montreal have continued to linger since the event was held last month. Organizers defended the removal of 45,000 grand stand seats as an effort to increase general admission sales but the plan appears to have backfired as only 36,204 attended the race - a decrease from the previous year - for a three day total of under 100,000.
"Contrary to what has been reported by certain media, during and since the recent Molson Indy Montreal, the organization devoted a significantly higher budget to the promotion of the event, as well as increased advertising and publicity efforts, than for any of the three previous editions," said Legault.
Legault points out that the 2006 Champ Car race has already been announced for August 27 next year.
That's all I needed to hear, clearly Montreal stays.
jono
It seems the lesson here would be that if the byline is McNulty, there is no reason to even read the crap.
Sure, for 1 more year as I read that. The fact that he needed to defend his promotion efforts in light of the fall in attendence is a bit ominous. I'm not going to sweat it, though.
I think it's likely that Legault would have been happy to scuttle the Champ car event in favor of something from NASCAR now that his F1 date is secure. I doubt that he would be stupid enough to replace it with IRL but they would probably have settled for a support race position with trucks or Busch. Sounds like someone has recently reminded Legault of his contract terms.
Hopefully Champ car will use this coming year to investigate other alternatives.
Opposite Lock
09-13-05, 07:54 PM
Yeah, here's the TSN link:
http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_story.asp?ID=136201&hubName=
That's all I needed to hear, clearly Montreal stays.
jono
Cassio Cortes article:
http://speedtv.com/articles/champcar/auto/19567/
TorontoWorker
09-13-05, 10:37 PM
I think the fix was in anyway - NASCAR has had some studies done concerning the Montreal layout and the affect it would have on their cars. From a rumor that is going around - the enginering report suggested that any Cup car that ran here with the current road course brakes would run out of brakes within 10 to 15 laps. The other side issue was that the higher brake temps would also have a negative affect on the tires do to heat transfer through the rims.
One would suspect that the extra expense of special *Montreal brakes* would not be worth it for one single event. This track is a killer on brakes no matter what vehicle is used.
So we are left with the IRL... (sigh) As I said long ago in another thread - this is all about a certain Quebec based plan/train maker and a motor company wanting to see Patrick race here - but it is highly suspect if he has that many fans left after his less then Danica results.
I think Bernies bum buddy Norm knows which series will draw more fans in Quebec - dispite his best efforts to screw the fans and Champ Car around.
It isn't a series that has a main backer (Cell Phones) that doesn't do any business in Canada nor a series that is so far off the radar in Quebec that TSN won't release TV numbers region wise.
Wait until hockey hockey starts in few weeks - even F1 TV numbers will drop in the Montreal market.
Robin Miller's take (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9654)
From Saturday to Tuesday I learned so much about contracts, handshakes, schedules, tortious interference, loyalty, sabotage, attorneys and Russian roulette in Canada.
:laugh:
Sounds like Champ Car will be looking for a replacement for Montreal after 2006.
with the size of that paddock how the hell are they gonna fit a nascar grid in there?
the walkways at the Cotton Bowl are roomier than that paddock when full.
On Tuesday morning, Legault issued a press release to "clarify" that he had no agreements with IRL or NASCAR, just one with Champ Car, for 2006.
** On Tuesday afternoon, the IRL unveiled its 2006 schedule with no races in Quebec or Montreal.
I was going to comment on the timing, but was too lazy. I think when the Yen leaves, Tony will dig deeper into his pocket and really try to screw Champ Car before his siblings stop the financial insanity. No inside info, but I'm a pretty decent judge of character.
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