View Full Version : Armstrong: serious doping allegations... again
oddlycalm
08-23-05, 03:22 PM
The French seem unable to ever see a new day on this. On the same day as US rider Levi Leipheimer wins the 2005 Tour of Germany (http://velonews.com/race/int/articles/8742.0.html) , French sports daily L'Equipe published a four page article alleging that re-tests of the B samples from the 1999 Tour de France revealed that Lance Armstrong tested positive for EPO, a performance enhancing drug.
Other reports indicate that the samples were numbered and that the researchers had no way to link them to Armstrong.
The national anti-doping laboratory in Chatenay-Malabry, which developed the EPO test and analyzed the urine samples in question, said it could not confirm that the positive EPO results were Armstrong's.
However, L'Equipe said it was able to make the match. It printed photos of what it said were official doping documents. On one side of the page, it showed what it said were the results of EPO tests from anonymous riders used for lab research. On the other, it showed Armstrong's medical certificates, signed by doctors and riders after doping tests — and bearing the same identifying number printed on the results.
Tour Head Troubled By Report (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050823/ap_on_sp_ot/cyc_armstrong_doping;_ylt=Ah1D6jtzdTPiUt1LiMO.b9p3 4T0D;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)
Of peripheral interest is that L'Equipe is a subsidiary of Amaury Group whose subsidiary, Amaury Sport Organization, organizes the Tour de France and other sporting events.
One wonders how many years of retirement it will take before the French finally give up trying to prove doping allegations against Armstrong. :rolleyes:
oc
More accusations with no hard proof.
And, from 1999! How about all those drug tests from '99 to '05? I have trouble believing that Armstrong would fill his post-cancer body with dangerous substances, especially that soon after his ordeal.
Every time I begin to consider staying & spending money in Nice for the Monaco GP, the French foil my plans by being idiots! :laugh:
Steve99
08-23-05, 03:42 PM
They have nothing better to do than play with 6-year-old urine?
They have nothing better to do than play with 6-year-old urine?
:laugh: Maybe that's what they put in Evian to make it taste bad.
Jervis Tetch 1
08-23-05, 05:36 PM
:laugh: Maybe that's what they put in Evian to make it taste bad. :eek:
A positive urine test. Is that their only evidence?
Classic Apex
08-23-05, 07:55 PM
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2351/2201francesurrenders8nb.jpg
oddlycalm
08-24-05, 01:49 PM
A positive urine test. Is that their only evidence? Re-test of a numbered 1999 B sample that only the tabloid can correlate to Armstrong. :rolleyes:
oc
Heh, I'm with you guys. I believe Lance would train 60 hours a week to be the best, but never take a at the time undetectable substance that all the other riders were taking.
I'm with the president too. If a ball player say he didn't take drugs, then who cares what the urine test says? More fun that way.
Heh, I'm with you guys. I believe Lance would train 60 hours a week to be the best, but never take a at the time undetectable substance that all the other riders were taking.
Speculation. I won't argue with you concerning 1999 results, because you and I have no proof either way. I'll just say that he backed up his results quite a few more times, under the most scrutiny possible.
I'll also add that I raced against Lance before he was a Tour or World Champion, and it was quite evident that his natural ability far exceeded any other bike racer I've encountered.
oddlycalm
08-24-05, 06:51 PM
Proven scientific fact (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050824/ap_on_sp_ot/cyc_armstrong_doping;_ylt=AvsGedzobBTSY6WFRkyXdcR3 4T0D;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)
"For the first time — and these are no longer rumors, or insinuations, these are proven scientific facts — someone has shown me that in 1999, Armstrong had a banned substance called EPO in his body," Tour director Leblanc said. Interesting how tabloid allegations can turn into "proven scientific fact" within 24hrs. :rolleyes: As Rich stated, even if the allegations were true, and there is no way to prove scientifically 6yrs after the fact, Armstrong backed up that win many times over under the closest scrutiny of any athlete that has ever competed. The real shame is that the allegations cannot readily be disproved either and will no doubt cast a cloud over what is a singular accomplishment.
The fact that the tour director what quote the story as proven scientific fact is a pretty strong indication that he not only doesn't have the vaguest idea of what constitutes a scientific fact and/or doesn't care. His goal is obvious. :thumdown:
oc
Yep. If he won 7 times, that must mean he never cheated. I mean how many races did Ben Johnson win. Got to be less than 7 right?
Winston Wolfe
08-24-05, 10:30 PM
Yep. If he won 7 times, that must mean he never cheated. I mean how many races did Ben Johnson win. Got to be less than 7 right?
Dood, what have you got to prove here ? It seems like Lance was able to win multiple times, NO ?
It seems there is another agenda being put forward here by the French tabloid looking to sell a headline about Lance regarding a test that was taken over 5 years ago, and only NOW, magically, they can PROVE that a.) it was Lance's and b.) that it has not been "touched" by anyone else in these past 7 years ????
Thin. Pretty freakin' THIN, man !
If you want to stir up the pot, go right ahead, I just wouldn't want to make a stand on something that a French tabloid was stating as "scientific proof".
Sheesh! :shakehead
btw: I am sure Ben Johnson won a heck of a lot more than 7 races. The "one" you must be referring to is his '88 Olympic gold run, No ?
fourrunner
08-24-05, 11:05 PM
Pat Robertson has just called for Tour Director Leblanc's assassination!! ;)
Lance may be one of the biggest jackasses in the history of mankind, and oh is he ever, but he's also one hell of a competitor, F the haters.
Hard Driver
08-25-05, 10:51 AM
So there is no way a lab contaminated anything. There is no way this testing of old samples was somehow politically motivated that the testing results were given to a newspaper. There is no way this paper is trying to sell papers using these allegations that THEY have somehow been able to "prove"
Sorry, I don't consider this papers allegations as fact. And so as far as I am concerned, innocent until proven guilty, and there is no proof. If the world sporting body finds definitive proof using tightly controlled samples and repeatable results, then I would be disappointed. But a newspapers allegations are not definitive.
oddlycalm
08-25-05, 11:26 AM
Yep. If he won 7 times, that must mean he never cheated. I mean how many races did Ben Johnson win. Got to be less than 7 right? No, what it means is that Armstrong won 7 Tours under the most extreme levels of doping scrutiny any athlete has ever been subjected to. That means A samples, B samples as well as all the surprise blood tests that nobody else in the Tour was subjected to as well.
The real travesty here is that this lab and the Tour director is not only allowing this misrepresentation of fact to occur, but adding insult to injury by stating that it is a scientific fact, which he knows very well it is not, as does anybody else that understands how such testing is actually conducted. The further shame is that there is no means for Armstrong to clear his name for the 1999 Tour as the A samples have all been destroyed by the intrepid management of the particular lab in question.
I agree with Ankf00. Armstrong is not my favorite guy, but he doesn't deserve a hatchet job after the fact on manufactured evidence.
oc
Racing Truth
08-25-05, 03:43 PM
Pat Robertson has just called for Tour Director Leblanc's assassination!! ;)
:laugh: :laugh:
RacinM3
08-25-05, 03:54 PM
The French should strip Lance of all of his titles. Then I'd like to see him come out of retirement and win his 8th.
devilmaster
08-25-05, 04:17 PM
Hmmm....
Paper is connected to the tour, and paper has writers who continually bash people in it....
Sounds like Toronto Sun and McNutty to me....
I don't really know if Lance is drug free nor do I really care.... I'm just surprised how a paper, who routinely bashes Armstrong - can take 'anonymous' samples and easily prove that they are not 'anonymous samples after all......
Armstrong is scheduled to appear tonight on CNN on Larry King Live. Could be interesting.
Ted
Pretty good interview on Larry King. Sounds like there is not a whole lot he can do to refute the charge after all these years. It does sound though like he has been the most tested man on the planet since 1999 and there have been NO positive test results until this crap. I had no idea those folks can show up and demand samples anytime, anywhere all year long.
Amazing he has sold 55 million of the livestrong bands. :thumbup:
IlliniRacer
09-09-05, 05:47 PM
Cycling body has seen no evidence of doping (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=2156494)
oddlycalm
09-09-05, 10:46 PM
UCI said it was still "awaiting plausible answers" to its requests to WADA and the laboratory. This should be interesting considering the sleazy manner in which the information was released.
"If we can prove that there is a positive case, we attack, regardless of the cyclist," he said. "But on the other hand, if I feel that an injustice has been done to my sport or to one of my licensed riders, I attack too. This may get interesting yet. :D
On the other hand, it seems likely that the allegations can neither be proved or disproved with the A sample having been destroyed. In that case Armstrong retires with a cloud over his head and the tabloid can't be nailed for libel. It may have been a cheap parting shot, but it may have also been a very clever one. :shakehead
oc
Now the lawsuit. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051214/sp_nm/cycling_armstrong_dc
indyfan31
12-15-05, 12:57 AM
Are the Italians completely insane??? 1 to 6 years in jail for calling someone a liar? And chasing another rider down during a race constitutes "private violence?" WTF is private violence?
(Hey, I think that's the first time I've ever used "WTF" in a post! Cool.)
dude, Italia is the only country where you can lose in sport, lose in a playoff game which determines who gets to stay in the top league instead of being relegated to triple A.... then you can SUE in COURT and have the COURT completely redefine who gets to stay in which league and how many teams move up/down between majors and triple A...
Italia judicial system == bigger joke than Smirnoff Ice...
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