View Full Version : Is this San Jose track a bad joke?
RacinM3
07-31-05, 05:52 PM
WTF? You'd think these teams had never raced champ cars before, or that the series organizers had never conducted a race. It's only an hour in, how did they think these fragile cars were going to take the pounding?
What the **** is up with the Joey Chitwood impersonation over these RR tracks?
Numerous questionable locations of barriers on the track where an off could result in a very, very bad wreck. I can't believe the drivers agreed to race here.
I'm fully expecting the RR tracks to abuse the cars to where there's a high speed failure, that results in a bad injury, or worse.
It's SUCH a bad track, I've run out of things to say.
:thumdown:
Worst track *ever*. They should have used this location as a charter bus depot and transported all the fans to Laguna Seca.
Just a half hour more......
Jag_Warrior
07-31-05, 05:58 PM
Nothing much to say. Just :thumdown:
I was hoping it might turn out to be like the DC ALMS race: tight but very competitive. But I can't compare this to anything... because I've never seen anything like this before. :shakehead
After seeing this track, I say bring back Belle Isle. It was just as bad of a layout without the obstacle course.
Horrible.
It's hard to argue the fact that the series is lacking in leadership from the competition side of things. Who did they send out to inspect, Martha Stewart?
the biggest :thumdown: ever IMO
I've only been able to see parts of this race and from what I've seen? :rolleyes: What a joke. Worst street race course I've ever seen and that includes Miami.
This makes Houston look like Road America. I'm not sure Petter Solberg could keep a car straight coming off those tracks. Obviously no one at CCWS was thinking or using common sense at all. :thumdown:
Any real race fan would agree this track was a terrible joke. IMHO any track with a pole speed under 100mph should be retooled or dumped. The big question though is, will the event fans be back?
Dirty Sanchez
07-31-05, 06:59 PM
Festival of greed :o
TKGAngel
07-31-05, 07:04 PM
How many suspension failures were there during the race? The railroad tracks probably did not help matters. Was that the turn 4 wall they all kept brushing into, the one that was moved 3 feet back during the weekend? I heard them mention that Servia requested more padding for his seat because of all the bouncing on the track.
Was anyone else looking at the clock, thinking this was the most boring race ever? Or was it just me.
Worst track *ever*. They should have used this location as a charter bus depot and transported all the fans to Laguna Seca.
:thumbup:
Lots of room for improvement. Thankfully not much damage beyond suspension pieces.
Didn't Denver start out this way as well? It matured into a decent track.
Yes in 20+ years I would say it's got to be the worst. Hopefully the fans who attended won't think so. A bullet was dodged today, if a suspension was broken and a car went head on into the barrier because of the pounding at the tracks, or that mickey mouse chicane they added, this one wouldn't be back. They have a year to fix it, better start tomorrow.
Lizzerd
07-31-05, 07:40 PM
Next year's SJ race must have a complete redesign of the track, sans RR crossings. That was unacceptable. I'm talking about an entirely new location, new layout, everything.
I did not see a SINGLE PASS for position. Heck, I didn't even see a backmarker passed on the track. Very, very bad track.
Hard Driver
07-31-05, 07:45 PM
Was there a single on track pass today. I was fast forwarding my tape past the boredom (which was the whole race) and missed it if there was.
That track was pathetic and that would be kind. Any track with a RR crossing is not a track.
GOFAST1
07-31-05, 07:59 PM
Track was bad,but talent and skill of the drivers is superb.Next year will be better after the changes they will make according to the boss Kevin.
fourrunner
07-31-05, 08:00 PM
I think we should all just kill ourselves!!! ;)
Kalkoven said that major improvements will be made for next year... considering what he's done so far, I believe him !
This too shall pass ... 2 weeks Denver, a track that also had growing pains but is much improved !
The guys that drove the race I'm sure had there complaints but they cheered the City's backing of the Race and said they'll put on a better show next year!
Insomniac
07-31-05, 08:35 PM
Wow. The season had been so exciting until now. Then this. Boring. I can't believe I'm saying this, but the only reason I didn't FF thorugh the whole thing is to listen to the commentators. I certainly hope a lot of lessons were learned and will be applied next year.
Insomniac
07-31-05, 08:37 PM
Next year's SJ race must have a complete redesign of the track, sans RR crossings. That was unacceptable. I'm talking about an entirely new location, new layout, everything.
I did not see a SINGLE PASS for position. Heck, I didn't even see a backmarker passed on the track. Very, very bad track.
I think Tagliani managed to pass a few cars. they never showed it on TV, but prior to the first pit stop he was mid-pack.
This definitely redefined street parade.
spinner26
07-31-05, 08:40 PM
After the pre race show and dinner I cut the grass. Did they really race there? I thought there might be a Lola boycott or suspension supplier boycott. What BS! KK needs to fire somebody over this one, NO EXCUSE! :flame:
JohnnyQ
07-31-05, 08:45 PM
Yeah...it was a string of beads. But did you see them go over the bumps! Xcitning! :gomer:
Poor Vasser got a headache. :cry:
Worst track *ever*. They should have used this location as a charter bus depot and transported all the fans to Laguna Seca.
Do you really need a depot if you only need one bus?
Yeah, terrible track. Next year has to be better.
I will take 1 bad race track out of 14 races. KK and the boys will make it better next year. Just keep growing the business and hopefully we can make it back to some premanent tracks in the future.
RaceGrrl
07-31-05, 09:07 PM
Terrible track, but a nice race to nap through.
It was a bad finish to an otherwise great weekend of racing. Preparation H should've been a good official sponsor of the race in the tightest concrete canyon yet.
Do you really need a depot if you only need one bus?
Why only one bus? Have a whole fleet of party buses! The "event" fans can all meet up in downtown San Jose, dig into the beer coolers en route to the track and set up a gi-normous party on the hill, where they can join the long-time race fans who will show them what a real race track looks like.
Dr. Corkski
07-31-05, 09:29 PM
How many suspension failures were there during the race? The railroad tracks probably did not help matters. Was that the turn 4 wall they all kept brushing into, the one that was moved 3 feet back during the weekend? I heard them mention that Servia requested more padding for his seat because of all the bouncing on the track.
Was anyone else looking at the clock, thinking this was the most boring race ever? Or was it just me.The T4 wall was moved back on Friday night but it was just the part where the tires were. The part all the drivers were hitting could not possibly be moved any further because that was how wide Park Av. was. All that really did though was that instead of going into the tires the drivers just ended up hitting that concrete barrier with their right rears on the exit. Allmendinger, Ranger, Lavin, and finally da Matta all did the exact same thing there. Philippe around slowed there too but he told me he had a mechanical problem.
If all you cared about was the event, then it was great. If you cared about the racing, this was even more pathetic than Miami. I understand the desire to have street races in city centers, but at least bring it to a real city that can host a real race.
Why only one bus? Have a whole fleet of party buses! The "event" fans can all meet up in downtown San Jose, dig into the beer coolers en route to the track and set up a gi-normous party on the hill, where they can join the long-time race fans who will show them what a real race track looks like.
Sounds like you missed out on a big money making opportunity.
We used to take a bus trip with Columbus champ car fans from Columbus to Cleveland. The last year there were maybe a 20 people on board. I don't think you're going to sell people on a party bus for an event that they wouldn't otherwise go to.
I busted a gut laughing today.
On the restarts, all the cars going over the tracks looked like Whack-A-Moles.
Then.....I felt sorry for my series :shakehead
I busted a gut laughing today.
On the restarts, all the cars going over the tracks looked like Whack-A-Moles.
Soda meet keyboard and monitor. You caught me by surprise on that one.
Jag_Warrior
07-31-05, 10:25 PM
It was a bad finish to an otherwise great weekend of racing. Preparation H should've been a good official sponsor of the race in the tightest concrete canyon yet.
:thumbup:
I do have something positive to say. Hmm... Gimme a second here. Oh yeah, the trophy girls were HOT!
Quite possibly the worst track ever. If you lined it with hay bales, it might be wide enough for go karts, but for Champcars, it was an embarassment.
:flame:
Well, I was lucky. My wife informed me at noon that we were going to her bros for a BBQ. So, on went the PVR. Much easier to watch it 3 hours later. This time I didn't find out the results in advance.
It took all of 2 minutes to decide "someone screwed up." No wonder they want to lengthen the course and make lots of changes. Let's hope they learned something today. Frankly, I'd be PO'd if I'd paid real money for that show.
Now, I didn't watch the lemming race. I flicked it on before we left for the BBQ to see if I could get a handle on the crowd size - hard to do with few direct crowd shots and strategic seating assignment.
I did think the KK got it right at the end - the drivers will need a lot of Preparation H after that race.
Dr. Corkski
07-31-05, 11:14 PM
Crowd was announced at about 60k (how they could actually count it would be a good question) for today but with the way the San Jose Mafia promoting this thing like you were going to be dropped off into the Bay with your feet in a block of cement, it seemed a bit underwhelming since they supposedly 50k yesterday.
Forgot to mention Vasser supposedly had his suspension break twice during the race from just the bumps. Kalkhoven can talk about improving this event all he wants, but as good of a job as he is capable of doing himself, in terms of the track he is always going to be at the mercy of the clowns running San Jose.
fourrunner
07-31-05, 11:22 PM
Crowd was announced at about 60k (how they could actually count it would be a good question) for today but with the way the San Jose Mafia promoting this thing like you were going to be dropped off into the Bay with your feet in a block of cement, it seemed a bit underwhelming since they supposedly 50k yesterday.
Forgot to mention Vasser supposedly had his suspension break twice during the race from just the bumps. Kalkhoven can talk about improving this event all he wants, but as good of a job as he is capable of doing himself, in terms of the track he is always going to be at the mercy of the clowns running San Jose.
Hey Cork sounds like your about to move away from San Jose !! ;)
What a farce. :thumdown: A total downer after Edmonton. :( Kinda like the F1 season after San Marino.
-Kevin
KK = Gimli?
http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Gimli-Plate.jpg
:D
I hope he's right about the race for years to come.
-Kevin
Well, I'm a fan of the 'Variety of Challenges' aspect of Champ Car racing. Yeah, sometimes you get airport runways and sometimes you get concrete canyons. I liked the Detroit GP for this same reason. Cleveland is fun, but sometimes the challenge is different. This time it was about engineering and Preparation H.
Clearly, some teams got the message that they'd have to reinforce push rods (or whatever they actually did - coulda' been a spring change or something) and some didn't. Jimmy Vasser's crew obviously didn't get that. Bourdais' and Tracy's guys did.
This was an incredible challenge and victory for the drivers. But more for the teams this time.
I hope - along with everyone else - that the track will be better next year, but don't take away from the people who took a bad situation and turned it into victory.
FanofMario
08-01-05, 12:07 AM
Trophy girls were nice and the crowd great, but what about the sport? This track was a joke! To think I used to be at MIS watching great racing this weekend. Only the empty seats at MIS today made the San Jose race ok.
RM's take on this weekend's 'event':
http://speedtv.com/commentary/18566/
As RM mentions, I do applaud the efforts to put lipstick on this pig of a track.
-Kevin
I couldn't believe what I saw when I saw the cars jump over the rail road crossing on the first lap. What the F*** were promoters thinking building a track with rail road cross in the middle of it? Also, how the heck could Champcars put their drivers in such danger. Man, they were so lucky no one hit the wall head on in the middle of that chicane. :flame: :thumdown:
When the race was over, I let out a big sigh. Today we got lucky! :shakehead
JohnHKart
08-01-05, 01:05 AM
Was anyone else looking at the clock, thinking this was the most boring race ever? Or was it just me.
I was too. What makes it even worse is watching it after watching Formula 1 at the Hungaroring, arguably one of if not the worst F1 track. But for some reason even Hungarroing is now enjoyable to watch. Champ Car always looks too slow after F1 and tracks like San Jose make things worse.
John
Methanolandbrats
08-01-05, 08:06 AM
Open wheel rallycross may catch on. But they'll need beefier suspensions. Kinda like drifting. 60k can't be wrong.
Insomniac
08-01-05, 09:10 AM
Poor Vasser got a headache. :cry:
He didn't complain about a headache. And even went back out when they could easily call it a day.
Insomniac
08-01-05, 09:13 AM
The T4 wall was moved back on Friday night but it was just the part where the tires were. The part all the drivers were hitting could not possibly be moved any further because that was how wide Park Av. was. All that really did though was that instead of going into the tires the drivers just ended up hitting that concrete barrier with their right rears on the exit. Allmendinger, Ranger, Lavin, and finally da Matta all did the exact same thing there. Philippe around slowed there too but he told me he had a mechanical problem.
If all you cared about was the event, then it was great. If you cared about the racing, this was even more pathetic than Miami. I understand the desire to have street races in city centers, but at least bring it to a real city that can host a real race.
Also, even if they moved it back, that would just increase the speed through the corner. They'd still push as close to it as possible.
It needs work. It will get it. Lighten up and remember, If it was easy, it would be the IRL.
Sean O'Gorman
08-01-05, 09:45 AM
Is it safe for me to say "I told you so" yet?
How many fans do you think this race actually made today? Worse yet, how many fans that picked up watching series after Edmonton do you think they just lost?
Edmonton is proof that you can do temporary tracks if they are done right, they just need to set standards.
If Motogp can get people to ride motorcycles 40 miles to Laguna Seca, there is no reason why Champ Car can't try there again. :shakehead
Crowd was announced at about 60k (how they could actually count it would be a good question) for today but with the way the San Jose Mafia promoting this thing like you were going to be dropped off into the Bay with your feet in a block of cement, it seemed a bit underwhelming since they supposedly 50k yesterday.
Just out of curiosity, how did the promotion of the Laguna Seca races, especially the recent ones, in the Bay Area compare to promotion of the San Jose race? Did they even try to bring fans in from the three big cities?
fourrunner
08-01-05, 10:05 AM
Just out of curiosity, how did the promotion of the Laguna Seca races, especially the recent ones, in the Bay Area compare to promotion of the San Jose race? Did they even try to bring fans in from the three big cities?
In a word .... NO !
It was great to be at the track & have everything available to you with no crowd though !!
The Drivers were chasing fans to have someone to talk too! ;)
I was there a week, and dropped over $2,000.00 between Hotel, Food, Tickets to the Race, Souveneers, etc. most of it in Monterey
I can't see where these Private Tracks can't do a "Co Operative Effort" in regards promotion with the Nearest City ... Monterrey certainly benefits from the attendance at Laguna Seca which is 10-12 miles outside of town ... but everybody migrates to the City for Meals, Hotels, and Tourism etc. so the City gets the gravy without much outlay
Is it safe for me to say "I told you so" yet?
How many fans do you think this race actually made today? Worse yet, how many fans that picked up watching series after Edmonton do you think they just lost?
Edmonton is proof that you can do temporary tracks if they are done right, they just need to set standards.
If Motogp can get people to ride motorcycles 40 miles to Laguna Seca, there is no reason why Champ Car can't try there again. :shakehead
How would you make this work other than to try again something that hasn't worked?
Sean O'Gorman
08-01-05, 10:48 AM
Simple. If you can't make a good race track, don't go racing there. I don't understand how much more needs to be said. It is about competition first, and if there is none because they are racing around a bad track, the sport gains nothing.
Quite possibly the worst track ever. If you lined it with hay bales, it might be wide enough for go karts, but for Champcars, it was an embarassment.
:flame:
Fortunately no Kart sanctioning body would let their drivers race on such a dangerous track. This was unbelievable and unacceptable from what is supposed to be top line motor racing. It was also unfortunately typical. Once a year every year something incredibly stupid like this happens and that is sub bush league organization.
In a word .... NO !
Well there's the problem then. The casual fan isn't going to go to a race if they don't know that there's one going on. The cost of running some 30-second TV commercials and ads in the major papers in the Bay Area would be a fraction of the repair costs the teams will have to cough up on "events" like what we saw yesterday.
While it's terrific that the series listened to the drivers' concerns and made changes on the fly during the weekend, it's alarming that they ran into some of these problems in the first place. Didn't the organizers know ahead of time that they'd have to deal with speed bumps at the train tracks, eight-foot-wide roads and zero places to overtake? It seemed like they created the track using Mapquest, an inkjet printer and some magic markers, and then discovered Friday morning that their maps weren't detailed enough.
I know it's easy for me to say since I'm not the one paying the bills, but the motorsports side of things was badly sacrificed in San Jose in favor of the event. I really hope they fix that next time.
Jervis Tetch 1
08-01-05, 10:55 AM
Just fix it baby.
RaceGrrl
08-01-05, 12:29 PM
Simple. If you can't make a good race track, don't go racing there. I don't understand how much more needs to be said. It is about competition first, and if there is none because they are racing around a bad track, the sport gains nothing.
It isn't about competition first. It's about money first. No money, no competition. It's about building sponsorship and community support for the series, which translates into money. That doesn't change the fact that this track sucked.
Laguna is a fun race, but there's no money in it. I don't know what part of that people don't understand. You can't run a series on no cash.
Warlock!
08-01-05, 12:46 PM
Laguna is a fun race, but there's no money in it. I don't know what part of that people don't understand. You can't run a series on no cash.
Too many people can't understand this. I think it sucks, but I'll "allow" it since I kinda wanna see ChampCar be around in the future... something that wouldn't happen if they would continue losing money at the purist's road racing venues.
RaceGrrl
08-01-05, 01:05 PM
Right, 'lock. I'm not happy at all that Laguna, RA and MO are off the schedule, but I'm realisitic enough to realize that CC has to race where they're wanted and can make money if the series is going to stick around.
Once (if) they've started building their fan base again, you can pursue the real tracks. Until then, we've got what we've got. Kalkhoven clearly understood that yesterday's race was a stinker and it needs changes. I trust that he'll do that, because in the end, it will benefit him financially.
"It's like being in a paint shaker," said Paul Tracy.
:laugh:
Dirty Sanchez
08-01-05, 01:38 PM
profit-fans :gomer:
racer2c
08-01-05, 02:50 PM
I'm starting to wonder what constitutes a fan of the Champ Car series. I guess you have to make money off of them.
Photag-fan = :gomer:
Dirty Sanchez
08-01-05, 02:58 PM
:laugh:
too much energy spent on worrying about the size of some rich guys' wallets... and a lot of but, but, but-ing. why anyone would try to put a happy face on this farce is beyond me. "well denver started out this way" :rofl: can't fathom how some could think its ok that champ car is not at road america, mid-ohio, laguna, etc.
but then again lots of people just settle for less.
the ultimate for me is watching "fans" here supporting a $500k track rental in vegas so we can put on our version of an irl race :laugh: :thumdown:
Warlock!
08-01-05, 03:00 PM
profit-fans :gomer:
Better'n no-series fans...
double :gomer:
extramundane
08-01-05, 03:05 PM
http://toychest.diamondcomics.com/toys/04_04/R_S%20Mr.%20Horse.jpg
"No sir, I didn't like it."
Dirty Sanchez
08-01-05, 03:06 PM
no series over tracks like that might actually be preferable... "but, but... it had some sweet jumps" :gomer:
but honestly... no series? who seriously thinks that's the only alternative?
if tony can operate a series at a loss for 10 odd years... why can't we? :gomer:
racer2c
08-01-05, 03:09 PM
:laugh:
too much energy spent on worrying about the size of some rich guys' wallets... and a lot of but, but, but-ing. why anyone would try to put a happy face on this farce is beyond me. "well denver started out this way" :rofl: can't fathom how some could think its ok that champ car is not at road america, mid-ohio, laguna, etc.
but then again lots of people just settle for less.
the ultimate for me is watching "fans" here supporting a $500k track rental in vegas so we can put on our version of an irl race :laugh: :thumdown:
I went back through this thread and could not find one instance of someone saying that it is "ok" for the series not to be at America's top natural road courses. On the contrary actually.
Dirty Sanchez
08-01-05, 03:14 PM
go back and do it again :D
maybe you should stop defending villeneuve and read up... its been suggested here and elsewhere since this new business model was introduced to save champcar :gomer:
racer2c
08-01-05, 03:52 PM
go back and do it again :D
maybe you should stop defending villeneuve and read up... its been suggested here and elsewhere since this new business model was introduced to save champcar :gomer:
Save me the trouble and quote the person that said they would rather see Champ Car race in San Jose than RA like you claim.
Well, I guess they could go back to RA, LS and Mid-Ohio for a year or two to make us all happy and then fold because you and ten other people showed up. But then you'd be stuck taking pictures of the IRL and Grand Am. Not that you care. :gomer:
racer2c
08-01-05, 03:55 PM
no series over tracks like that might actually be preferable... "but, but... it had some sweet jumps" :gomer:
but honestly... no series? who seriously thinks that's the only alternative?
if tony can operate a series at a loss for 10 odd years... why can't we? :gomer:
Brilliant observation you should run a race series! On second thought, just keep snappin' pictures. Cliiick, cliiick.
if tony can operate a series at a loss for 10 odd years... why can't we? :gomer:
Ask Chris Pook. Been there, done that.
Dirty Sanchez
08-01-05, 03:56 PM
that's assuming that all possible options have been exhausted to make those events successful. clearly that hasn't happened. but good luck convincing me that it has :gomer:
champ car: real (bad) racing. real profit. :thumbup:
Dirty Sanchez
08-01-05, 03:57 PM
Save me the trouble and quote the person that said they would rather see Champ Car race in San Jose than RA like you claim.that wasn't my claim. try again :gomer:
cameraman
08-01-05, 04:11 PM
that wasn't my claim. try again :gomer:
Fine, you are whinging like a two year old because no one will flush several million dollars of their money down the toilet just to make you happy.
Dirty Sanchez
08-01-05, 04:27 PM
not asking anyone to flush anything... except for maybe all the monday morning financial quarterbacking that goes on here. just saying that they should make it work for the sake of the product because as a champ car fan, that is the most important thing to me... period. badass cars on badass tracks. I could give a damn about the financial viability of the series. its not my money.
oh I get it... it's ok to whinge about IRL and Grand Am if you don't like it... but you can't whinge about champ car when there are things that you don't like :gomer:
Winston Wolfe
08-01-05, 04:38 PM
not asking anyone to flush anything... except for maybe all the monday morning financial quarterbacking that goes on here. just saying that they should make it work for the sake of the product because as a champ car fan, that is the most important thing to me... period. badass cars on badass tracks. I could give a damn about the financial viability of the series. its not my money.
oh I get it... it's ok to whinge about IRL and Grand Am if you don't like it... but you can't whinge about champ car when there are things that you don't like :gomer:
Crapus - I love the "whinge" and whinging reference !!!! N-I-C-E !!!! :thumbup:
Dirty Sanchez
08-01-05, 04:47 PM
dude started it (http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showpost.php?p=115741&postcount=73)
trauma1
08-01-05, 04:49 PM
hopefully this is the last f up they make this year, :shakehead
RaceGrrl
08-01-05, 05:09 PM
You said it's not your money- but you're happy to tell KK and co. how to spend it. That's definitely Monday morning quarterbacking, albeit from a different perspective. Hell, I agree with you- they SHOULD spend it on getting the natural terrain courses back, but I'm realistic enough to realize that what I think doesn't matter to the series owners. They're going to do what they want, what will make them a profit. I don't like it but right now other racing series viewing options don't interest me.
I'll take what I can get from CCWS and hope that over time things improve. If they don't, I'll lose interest. If the series is nothing more than a bunch of 'events' with no heritage, I'll lose interest. If that's the business plan then I'm not sure that it will even matter that they'll have lost their core fanbase because they won't need us at that point anyway.
There has been some good racing this season, but I still miss the beauty of the ChampCars on the real road courses. There's simply nothing like it. I'd like to see CCWS return to them, but I'm not holding my breath.
I went back through this thread and could not find one instance of someone saying that it is "ok" for the series not to be at America's top natural road courses. On the contrary actually.
OK, I'm guilty, I said San Jose made Houston LOOK like Road America. My bad, sorry. :gomer:
I'm glad there are still Champ car fans still passionate enough to care. I'm glad Champ car management is steady enough to keep their eye on the ball and keep moving forward.
We had a string of excellant races. Those didn't evaporate because of San Jose.
Even NASCAR has a few suckass races...depending on who you ask they all suck!
Even NASCAR has a few suckass races...depending on who you ask they all suck!
true they do have some boring races, but nothing amatuer enough to have train tracks in the middle of the track.
Sean O'Gorman
08-01-05, 06:05 PM
true they do have some boring races, but nothing amatuer enough to have train tracks in the middle of the track.
Hah, you don't want to go down this road...
When was the last time a Champ Car hit a wall and caused a gate to open, twisting the car like a pretzel?
not asking anyone to flush anything... except for maybe all the monday morning financial quarterbacking that goes on here. just saying that they should make it work for the sake of the product because as a champ car fan, that is the most important thing to me... period. badass cars on badass tracks. I could give a damn about the financial viability of the series. its not my money.
oh I get it... it's ok to whinge about IRL and Grand Am if you don't like it... but you can't whinge about champ car when there are things that you don't like :gomer:
Pardon me? Sure it had a smiley but YOU won't be contributing YOUR MONEY even though you use the ROYAL "WE"
"if tony can operate a series at a loss for 10 odd years... why can't we?"
I'm glad there are still Champ car fans still passionate enough to care. I'm glad Champ car management is steady enough to keep their eye on the ball and keep moving forward.
We had a string of excellant races. Those didn't evaporate because of San Jose.
Exactly - and if they can make the right changes to the track layout next year it will be much better. If they don't learn from this year then......
MAXAR RE
08-01-05, 06:15 PM
worst ... track ... ever
I am surprised that none of the drivers herniated a disk on that joke of a track.
:shakehead
racer2c
08-01-05, 06:29 PM
worst ... track ... ever
I am surprised that none of the drivers herniated a disk on that joke of a track.
:shakehead
I agree with a poster who earlier said that they were surprised the drivers agreed to race. They're fortunate that no serious wrecks occured. I hope they can improve the track for next year. I'm one of those crazy Champ Car fans who do believe that fans can be made from city races. Not all of us are bumpkin's.
Hard Driver
08-01-05, 06:43 PM
Look that track sucked.
But that track is not the whole season. The rest of the season so far has been very good. The only problem is that bad word of mouth travels much faster than good word of mouth. So one bad track may take a proportionally bad hit on the series reputation.
I understand the series needs to make money, attract fans and sponsors to make money. This seems to mean to run street races. But the quality of the street races needs to be assured, otherwise the series will be bound for a bunch of crappy races and people will loose interest in a year or two.
Now Edmington was a perfect example of a great street/ temporary race. This track was a perfect example of what not to do. Hopefully KK really does make the event better next year. And that requires a wider track with no RR crossings.
Warlock!
08-01-05, 08:42 PM
I don't think anyone here is refuting the fact that the Jose race sucked @ss, maybe the worst race in Champcar history (although I'm placin' my vote with that fuster-cluck down in Oz a couple years ago... I bet more people left the track pissed off that day than yesterday). KK made it sound like he was gonna do what needed to be done to make San Jose a good race next year, including a configuration change.
Another fact is that M-O, RA, and Laguna were packed houses back in the day. Since the split the attendance has dwindled to the point that the tracks lost money, Champcar lost money, and the few sponsors that remained got no ROI. Champcar tried a couple different ways to keep the events going (reduced sanctioning fees, doing their own promotion, and adjusting profit margins between the track owners and Champcar), but the races still fell on their asses. Maybe they didn't exhaust all the options available, but the options they did use still cost them money. I can hardly tell them they're stoopid for not wanting to lose more money at these venus.
Champcar is no longer what they used to be. If fact, they're hardly a blip on the racing radar anymore... for all intents and purposes they're basically a brand-new, start-up series. If, by the grace of God, they're able to build a foundation on these hell-borne street circuits, maybe... just maybe they'll be able to afford or, Hell, even be popular enuf to drag several thousands of fans out to butt-f*** Elkhart, WI or Lexitucky, Ohio again. If they do, I'll be there all three days of the race weekend. If not, I hope to maybe catch some of the better street races on the tube on a lazy Sunday afternoon.
My interest has definitely been waning over the past 5 years, but I'll still tune in to see if they do anything right on the weekends they race. Occasionally they get it right... ;)
racer2c
08-01-05, 10:03 PM
I don't think anyone here is refuting the fact that the Jose race sucked @ss, maybe the worst race in Champcar history (although I'm placin' my vote with that fuster-cluck down in Oz a couple years ago... I bet more people left the track pissed off that day than yesterday). KK made it sound like he was gonna do what needed to be done to make San Jose a good race next year, including a configuration change.
Another fact is that M-O, RA, and Laguna were packed houses back in the day. Since the split the attendance has dwindled to the point that the tracks lost money, Champcar lost money, and the few sponsors that remained got no ROI. Champcar tried a couple different ways to keep the events going (reduced sanctioning fees, doing their own promotion, and adjusting profit margins between the track owners and Champcar), but the races still fell on their asses. Maybe they didn't exhaust all the options available, but the options they did use still cost them money. I can hardly tell them they're stoopid for not wanting to lose more money at these venus.
Champcar is no longer what they used to be. If fact, they're hardly a blip on the racing radar anymore... for all intents and purposes they're basically a brand-new, start-up series. If, by the grace of God, they're able to build a foundation on these hell-borne street circuits, maybe... just maybe they'll be able to afford or, Hell, even be popular enuf to drag several thousands of fans out to butt-f*** Elkhart, WI or Lexitucky, Ohio again. If they do, I'll be there all three days of the race weekend. If not, I hope to maybe catch some of the better street races on the tube on a lazy Sunday afternoon.
My interest has definitely been waning over the past 5 years, but I'll still tune in to see if they do anything right on the weekends they race. Occasionally they get it right... ;)
Well said. :thumbup:
EDwardo
08-01-05, 10:04 PM
ANY CHAMPCAR RACE IS BETTER THAN THE irl.
So what if the track was inferior. KK said it will be changed for next year and I will take him at his word. No one got hurt. 3 rookies managed to keep it off the walls and finished. Not every race can be the best there ever was.
On to Denver!
JohnHKart
08-02-05, 04:34 AM
Hah, you don't want to go down this road...
When was the last time a Champ Car hit a wall and caused a gate to open, twisting the car like a pretzel?
Yeah but Michael Waltrip's accident was fifteen years ago.
John
Yeah but Michael Waltrip's accident was fifteen years ago.
John
This happened a couple of years ago. I believe it was a Busch car. The guy was lucky to walk away.
Insomniac
08-02-05, 08:27 AM
Is it safe for me to say "I told you so" yet?
How many fans do you think this race actually made today? Worse yet, how many fans that picked up watching series after Edmonton do you think they just lost?
Edmonton is proof that you can do temporary tracks if they are done right, they just need to set standards.
If Motogp can get people to ride motorcycles 40 miles to Laguna Seca, there is no reason why Champ Car can't try there again. :shakehead
They already tried that until the attendance got down to 10k and finally gave up.
Don Quixote
08-02-05, 08:28 AM
Good post Warlock. :thumbup:
Insomniac
08-02-05, 08:35 AM
that's assuming that all possible options have been exhausted to make those events successful. clearly that hasn't happened. but good luck convincing me that it has :gomer:
champ car: real (bad) racing. real profit. :thumbup:
And whose responsibility was it when the attendance was dropping? RA, MO and LS all were paying sanctioning fees to CART. Why did they start promoting less? CART showed up year after year.
Mario Andretti and CART got a couple more years at RA and it didn't help. RA didn't want us there and the owners didn't want to keep bleeding money for a few thousand fans.
If we're going to ask them to just throw away money, why don't we all just ask them to pay us to watch the series on TV too?
Dirty Sanchez
08-02-05, 09:32 AM
don't worry be happy. we have racing director and san jose and a bag full of speraficos :gomer:
don't worry be happy. we have racing director and san jose and a bag full of speraficos :gomer:
Didn't you get the memo? We're down to one Sperifico.
Sean O'Gorman
08-02-05, 10:47 AM
Well, I think the Champ Cars at least handled it better than the USTCC did:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAxOTY4OTZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAxOTY5MDZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAxOTY5MTZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAxOTY5MjZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAxOTY5MzZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg
:eek:
Well, I think the Champ Cars at least handled it better than the USTCC did:
..
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAxOTY5MzZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg
:eek:
Looks like he miscalculated.
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