The Next Champ Car?

[racer2c]

http://www.speedtv.com/_assets/library/img/large/67980_2007.jpg

Uh, yuck. Designed for street course "entertainment". Um. yuck.

Link (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/17429/)

[Methanolandbrats]

What a POS. Tomorrows openwheel fan will have a choice. Watch IRL crap on ovals or Champcar crap in urban parades. Fantastic.

[FCYTravis]

I kinda like the retro rear kickups but the front wing is trés fugly.

[racer2c]

Granted it's a simple concept sketch, but the front wing is to open wheel cars what the original Viper was to sports cars, cartoony.

The rear swooping body work in front of the rear wheels makes the car seem bulky and the rear wing is probably not actually functional with that V shape. Artististic lisence was taken there I believe.

I'd like to see a side view to get some porportions on the body work.

I'd rather have a cleaner, leaner Champ Car rather than a bulky, curvey one.

[nrc]

You owe me a coke. As I said in my post, I like it better than the other concept that was floated.

The thing to keep in mind is that left to their own devices designers would have the body work up closer to the tires much like this concept. To me this looks like a modern rendition of a late '80s, early '90s car. Not a bad thing.

[racer2c]

You owe me a coke. As I said in my post, I like it better than the other concept that was floated.

The thing to keep in mind is that left to their own devices designers would have the body work up closer to the tires much like this concept. To me this looks like a modern rendition of a late '80s, early '90s car. Not a bad thing.

If artist drawings for concept vehicles are any indication, the actual product will look much different than this preliminary drawing. So I won't jump all over it just based on this one early concept. But it is very cartoony and I don't like the "designed for street course entertainment" jazz.

[cart7]

Why not add a nerf bar that wraps completely around the car?

Would certainly allow a certain amount of pinballing while not penalizing the driver on his first, second or even third barrier contact. Keeps more cars in the race longer and cuts down on damage. :cool:






















BTW, I'm kidding. ;)

[Methanolandbrats]

It looks like the go-karts at the local tourist trap.

[Ankf00]

The rear swooping body work in front of the rear wheels makes the car seem bulky and the rear wing is probably not actually functional with that V shape.


ya, I wonder how jet planes take off despite having those angled wings :gomer:

it'll work, it just won't be as efficient, and if it's a spec chassis, as is evidenced by the league, efficiency isn't your goal... if you have 2 competitors designing within an envelope, efficiency wins out and the wing goes to a straight edge

the flares before the rear tires are dumb in that if they remain that large you're essentially removing a fair amount of drag that's generated by those tires, leave the wheels exposed and keep em to small winglets imo

I don't think it's so bad if they'd just remove the go-kart style curvature on the leading edge of the front wing and minimalize the bodywork affecting the rear wheel generated drag

[racer2c]

ya, I wonder how jet planes take off despite having those angled wings :gomer:

it'll work, it just won't be as efficient, and if it's a spec chassis, as is evidenced by the league, efficiency isn't your goal... if you have 2 competitors designing within an envelope, efficiency wins out and the wing goes to a straight edge

the flares before the rear tires are dumb in that if they remain that large you're essentially removing a fair amount of drag that's generated by those tires, leave the wheels exposed and keep em to small winglets imo

I don't think it's so bad if they'd just remove the go-kart style curvature on the leading edge of the front wing and minimalize the bodywork affecting the rear wheel generated drag

A case of your favorite beverage says that the rear wing design isn't on the actual car.

[Ankf00]

well duh :p

[Sean O'Gorman]

The car itself does not bug me. The fact that the series owners are resigned to spec engines and spec chassis (either due to financial motivations, or lack of optimism towards any new manufacturers or constructors joining) is very disappointing.

[racer2c]

The car itself does not bug me. The fact that the series owners are resigned to spec engines and spec chassis (either due to financial motivations, or lack of optimism towards any new manufacturers or constructors joining) is very disappointing.

With Roger Dodger supplying spec Ilmor's, it's starting to look niether side can get anyone to badge them. And we're talking badging. Eek.

[dando]

The car itself does not bug me. The fact that the series owners are resigned to spec engines and spec chassis (either due to financial motivations, or lack of optimism towards any new manufacturers or constructors joining) is very disappointing.
Think co$t control, ya egit. :p

-Kevin

[Sean O'Gorman]

Think co$t control, ya egit. :p

-Kevin

Question. What costs more?

1) chassis, engines, and parts supplied by companies with no competition

or

2) chassis, engines, and parts supplied by companies who have to be competitive both performance-wise and price-wise?

Institute a pricing and open supply structure similar to that of the Daytona Prototypes and costs should stay in line.

[dando]

Question. What costs more?

1) chassis, engines, and parts supplied by companies with no competition

or

2) chassis, engines, and parts supplied by companies who have to be competitive both performance-wise and price-wise?

Institute a pricing and open supply structure similar to that of the Daytona Prototypes and costs should stay in line.
Ask FTG how it's worked so far. Right. It ain't happened....yet.

-Kevin

[Sean O'Gorman]

Judging by the car counts, it seemed to work okay from '97-02. Too bad the equipment was junk. :p

[nrc]

Question. What costs more?

1) chassis, engines, and parts supplied by companies with no competition

or

2) chassis, engines, and parts supplied by companies who have to be competitive both performance-wise and price-wise?.There will be competition. Whoever wants a contract to supply 36 cars (guaranteed) will have to compete up front in order to win a contract. That competition will no doubt include fixed prices for all the approved pieces.

Competition between chasis builders rarely drives costs down. The only case where that happens is when one car is clearly less competitive, and then nobody wants them anyway.

[Andrew Longman]

The objectives of the design are laudable.

Wider sidepods reduce risk of wheels interlocking, providing for greater safety and more agressive driving.

Same with the front wing design; less fragile

Curved edges minimize turbulence behind the car, making it easier to follow and overtake a car.

Spec design controls costs and better ensures the cars are designed aerodynamically to race together (see above).

According to the Racer article they will allow individual teams to develop parts of the car, perhaps limiting to a certain area a year at a time, to allow diversity and greater competion among teams and cars.

Given the conditions in the sport, I think all of that is pretty smart. It looks a hell of a lot better than a Dellara or GForce crapwagon and it will still have a screaming turbo in back.

[DagoFast]

The front wing from AJ's 77 Coyote.
Front A arms out of Rolla Vollstedt's junk pile.
Crapwagon side pods.
Rear winglets off the Batmobile
Ring wing from a Jordan.

Yep, about what I expected from a car built by a commitee.

[Methanolandbrats]

The front wing from AJ's 77 Coyote.
Front A arms out of Rolla Vollstedt's junk pile.
Crapwagon side pods.
Rear winglets off the Batmobile
Ring wing from a Jordan.

Yep, about what I expected from a car built by a commitee. :D

[Turn7]

What's with the FedEx logo on the roll hoop?

Why would a rendering that has obviously been designed within the past few months include something that is represenative of that company?

:confused:

[racer2c]

What's with the FedEx logo on the roll hoop?

Why would a rendering that has obviously been designed within the past few months include something that is represenative of that company?

:confused:

It looks like the CCWS logo to me.

[RichK]

the flares before the rear tires are dumb in that if they remain that large you're essentially removing a fair amount of drag that's generated by those tires, leave the wheels exposed and keep em to small winglets imo


If this drawing was created with the engineers' real plans in mind, they might be trying to reduce rear-tire turbulence to the following car.

[RichK]

The front wing from AJ's 77 Coyote.
Front A arms out of Rolla Vollstedt's junk pile.
Crapwagon side pods.
Rear winglets off the Batmobile
Ring wing from a Jordan.

Yep, about what I expected from a car built by a commitee.

My first impression upon seeing the picture was AJ's Coyote.

[cameraman]

A little too close for comfort. That was one butt ugly car.

http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com/photo/build_photo_ims.php?photo_id=12763&size=med

..

[mueber]

I guess I'm twisted, but I think that Coyote ls one of the most attractive race cars I've ever seen.

As for the next Champ Car, I don't care what it looks like. What I want to know is, "what does it race like?"

[RichK]

I guess I'm twisted, but I think that Coyote ls one of the most attractive race cars I've ever seen.


I like it too. I remember being a 10 year old in the (packed) stands, screaming for the 14 car to win. MY, how things have changed!

[oddlycalm]

Those of us for whom the ideal is natural course road racing are never going to be totally happy with a car designed to be a concrete wall puncher. Also, I would prefer not to see GP2 cars run faster than Champcars on a road course, or look better doing it. Marketing the series internationally will be made more difficult if it's percieved to be running 3rd tier equipment.

That said, they can either deal with the aerodynamic issues that prevent overtaking or they can blow it off and run processions for the next umpty dump years. If the car will allow twice as much passing as the current cars and prevent most wheel/wheel cockups, I imagine we would find things to like about the appearence.

oc

[cameraman]

I like it too. I remember being a 10 year old in the (packed) stands, screaming for the 14 car to win. MY, how things have changed! From the 70's, that would be changed for the better...
Do you still have one of these? http://www.neldasvintageclothing.com/MCST156_02.jpg

[mueber]

The car itself does not bug me. The fact that the series owners are resigned to spec engines and spec chassis (either due to financial motivations, or lack of optimism towards any new manufacturers or constructors joining) is very disappointing.

Sean:

We are at least a decade from any form of manufacturer involvement. Be grateful that there will be something to watch at all.

[Andrew Longman]

I like it too. I remember being a 10 year old in the (packed) stands, screaming for the 14 car to win. MY, how things have changed!

Not me, I always hated him and the Unsers.

Donahue, Revson, Mario, Mears, Sneva. I had plenty of other heros. Hell, I even liked Sox and Martin, The Snake, Gartlis, Petty, Baker better than that AJ.

[RichK]

From the 70's, that would be changed for the better...


I disagree. I'm sure that Coyote was a lot harder to drive than today's crapwagon. And better looking, IMO.

[Insomniac]

I'll wait until I see an actual car, but it seems to mirror the article Gordon Kirby wrote.

Sean: What's better? Tons of manufacturers producing follow the leader racing or the series creating a spec chassis that will bring back actual racing. I'd prefer the latter. I think they're dead on. Get the racing back, who cares if Lola or Reynard or whoever make it. Then let them bring in engine and tire manufacturers. The least important manufacturer competition in my opinion is the chassis. It only leads to way too much time in the wind tunnel and everyone wanting to run in clean air.

[FCYTravis]

It'll be a cold day in Hell when Reynard makes another chassis.

[trauma1]

hate the front wing, and the side pods towards the rear, i hope they come up with something better, :confused:

[dando]

The objectives of the design are laudable.

Wider sidepods reduce risk of wheels interlocking, providing for greater safety and more agressive driving.

Same with the front wing design; less fragile

Curved edges minimize turbulence behind the car, making it easier to follow and overtake a car.

Spec design controls costs and better ensures the cars are designed aerodynamically to race together (see above).

According to the Racer article they will allow individual teams to develop parts of the car, perhaps limiting to a certain area a year at a time, to allow diversity and greater competion among teams and cars.

Given the conditions in the sport, I think all of that is pretty smart. It looks a hell of a lot better than a Dellara or GForce crapwagon and it will still have a screaming turbo in back.


Bingo! Give the man a prize!! :thumbup:

-Kevin

[Gnam]

My first impression upon seeing the picture was AJ's Coyote.
For reference an' stuff:

http://www.motorsportcollector.com/1004Images/77Coyote/06.jpeg

[DagoFast]

At most, there should be a common tub. Thats it.

Make your own suspension parts, brakes, bodywork and wings. Complete spec cars will just give you crapwagon racing.

The biggest, smartest, richest teams will always dominate ANY formula, so why have a boring spec formula?

In an ideal world, they should just publish max/min wheelbase, height, weight ect.

Just let racers race for god sake.

I'm a hardcore fan and i'm bored to death with 5 year old identicle cars.
And everyone actually wonders where all the casual/new fans are? Yawn.

Look at the photo's of other cars from '77. How many are the same?

If Jim Hall could build a car, and Dan Gurney could build a car, why the hell can't Forsythe?

AJ Foyt built a car ferchrissakes!

[Badger]

Question. What costs more?

1) chassis, engines, and parts supplied by companies with no competition

or

2) chassis, engines, and parts supplied by companies who have to be competitive both performance-wise and price-wise?

Institute a pricing and open supply structure similar to that of the Daytona Prototypes and costs should stay in line.

Wrong, the only reason costs are still in line for Grand Am is because you have only a few thousand people in the stands. With that sort of attendance, the auto manufacturers won't throw much coin at it.

I agree with those who are ready to retire the current cars. The current cars are possibly the worst cars for racing ever. The year they went to the small rear diffuser, the racing went to hell. If the cars look a little different, possibly weird, I'll take that if it ever allows a car to follow another. Go back and watch Mears park under Johncock in 82, or an even better example watch how close Sullivan was following Mario in 85. The current cars can't get within a country mile of those distances without losing thier handling completely. If we are going to go to a swoopy fairing going over the rear wheels, I vote to bring back the fairing from the Ongais Batmobile. Still an all time great looking car.


It is my firm belief that rather than cutting the cost of racing which in itself is nearly impossible, it is far more important to make money more readily available by increasing the popularity and prestige of the sport with the general public.

I am sure more than a few know who the above quote came from. It was right then, and it always will be.

[FCYTravis]

Wrong, the only reason costs are still in line for Grand Am is because you have only a few thousand people in the stands. With that sort of attendance, the auto manufacturers won't throw much coin at it.
The costs are in line because the rules say you can't do much to any part of the car. The only real place to get anything is the motor - and it doesn't take "auto manufacturer" money to get more horsepower out of a small-block Chevy. All the teams that are serious about anything are doing motor development. It doesn't have to happen on a huge scale. Just a tweak here, a tweak there and pretty soon you're talking 5 more horsepower.


1-3.3 Once approval has been given, no changes, modifications or adjustments in any form may be made to
the approved chassis and body design unless specifically allowed in these regulations.
2-1.5 The area directly behind the frontal projection of the rear tires may be altered within the allowable
bodywork dimensions.
Riley had to get series approval just to modify the radiator intake on the nose into the Pontiac-shaped grille.

Champ Car is already, right now, using rules even more spec than these Grand-Am rules. The only difference is that the Champ Car parts are more expensive, as would be expected.

It's all fine and good to say that we should be trying to make more money available. But as long as that's not happening (and it isn't), we should be trying to keep competition costs as reasonable as possible. I think that's doable without damaging what makes Champ Car, Champ Car.

[FCYTravis]

If Jim Hall could build a car, and Dan Gurney could build a car, why the hell can't Forsythe?
Two words: Carbon fiber.

Fabricating your own car from steel tubes on the shop floor and piecing together a tub in an autoclave are two different beasts. It's no accident that the rise of aluminum and carbon monocoques paralleled the death of the independent chassis.

Furthermore, spreading out the astronomical costs of a modern chassis design among multiple teams not only makes each car more economical, it makes each car more likely to win, thanks to shared setup and engineering data. Just like AGR running Bryan Herta around as a test mule.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Wrong, the only reason costs are still in line for Grand Am is because you have only a few thousand people in the stands. With that sort of attendance, the auto manufacturers won't throw much coin at it.

I didn't say I wanted the manufacturers to throw alot of coin at the series, just to supply engines.


It is my firm belief that rather than cutting the cost of racing which in itself is nearly impossible, it is far more important to make money more readily available by increasing the popularity and prestige of the sport with the general public.

I am sure more than a few know who the above quote came from. It was right then, and it always will be.

I agree 100%. The problem is, the general public doesn't want to watch races in China and Argentina...

[devilmaster]

The problem is, the general public doesn't want to watch races in China and Argentina...

Opinion.

[FCYTravis]

Rephrased: The general AMERICAN public doesn't want to watch races in China and Argentina.

If we ever want to grow Champ Car out of its tiny, floundering niche status in America, China and Argentina aren't going to do it.

Americans want American races. You can call it ethnocentric, you can call it ignorant, you can call it whatever you want. But a series that runs 50 percent of its races outside the United States is not going to succeed in the United States.

You're not going to get companies to spend American marketing dollars on a sponsorship in series that runs half its races in countries they're not marketing to. It doesn't even matter if they're multinational companies - marketing budgets are pieced out, and the marketing schlub who runs the American marketing arm of SuperHugeMegaCorp is going to get called on the carpet for "wasting" his American marketing budget on China and Argentina.

[Dr. Corkski]

If Jim Hall could build a car, and Dan Gurney could build a car, why the hell can't Forsythe?Will it be powered by an Indeck generator? :gomer:

[cameraman]

The problem is, the general public doesn't want to watch races in China and Argentina...

Bull ****. You watch the race on your TV. It does not make one ****ing iota of difference where the race is because it is on your ****ing TV in your living room. Champ Car gets a race at Spa you won't watch it because it isn't in ****ing Indiana?

[Dr. Corkski]

Bull ****. You watch the race on your TV. It does not make one ****ing iota of difference where the race is because it is on your ****ing TV in your living room. Champ Car gets a race at Spa you won't watch it because it isn't in ****ing Indiana?Tape delay sucks.

[devilmaster]

Rephrased: The general AMERICAN public doesn't want to watch races in China and Argentina.

Still opinion. Mostly because the races haven't happened yet.

Try this: The general AMERICAN public doesn't want to watch Champcar races regardless of where the races are held, period. (see, this can be proven by neilsen ratings, therefore not opinion)

See, don't say i don't help ya. :gomer:

[cameraman]

Tape delay sucks.

Exactly why? I tape the F1 races and then watch them when I wake up.
How, in your mind, does that diminish my enjoyment of the race?

[Dr. Corkski]

Exactly why? I tape the F1 races and then watch them when I wake up.
How, in your mind, does that diminish my enjoyment of the race?Because you are no longer a casual fan? :gomer:

[devilmaster]

If we ever want to grow Champ Car out of its tiny, floundering niche status in America, China and Argentina aren't going to do it.

I agree somewhat and disagree somewhat. I see China and Argentina as what they are supposed to be. Cash cows. But first thing first. Before Champcar can climb out of its tiny, floundering niche status in America, it has to survive. Use the above races to do what they're supposed to do. Build the series' pocketbook.

When the series is profitable, it can do many things. As one example, it can take its profits and raise the purses for races. You raise it high enough and ensure that teams will make money every year, I believe you will find more teams that are willing to race in Champcar. If you want to even it out, then the teams get a cut of the profits of the series itself, and leave the purses alone. Teams have more money to work with, relying less on sponsorship.

With a profitable series, perhaps CC will go back to a place like RA, where they can afford to spend some money, co-promote, and build that race back up, not worrying about making a profit at first, if the overall series is profitable. Its up to the fans to be vocal and ensure that the bosses know that places like RA are needed.


Americans want American races. You can call it ethnocentric, you can call it ignorant, you can call it whatever you want.

I call it passion. I don't have any problem with people who wish to have the races they used to have to go to back to. There are 6 races off the top of my head i can think of that I used to go to that aren't on the sked anymore, one of those less than a mile from my house. Oh, they were all American races, btw. But my first point still stands. Before CC can grow, it has to survive.


But a series that runs 50 percent of its races outside the United States is not going to succeed in the United States.

Again, opinion. Hell, lets look back to 2003. I submit that the series had over 50% of their races in America and still was not suceeding as they blew through the war chest in the final year of CART, to diminishing ratings and attendance.


You're not going to get companies to spend American marketing dollars on a sponsorship in series that runs half its races in countries they're not marketing to. It doesn't even matter if they're multinational companies - marketing budgets are pieced out, and the marketing schlub who runs the American marketing arm of SuperHugeMegaCorp is going to get called on the carpet for "wasting" his American marketing budget on China and Argentina.

Yes, thats why I believe if you make sure the series makes money, and it filters monies to the teams, teams perhaps can have sponsors sign on for less. IMO, the marketing schlub would be called on the carpet also if you replaced China and Argentina with RA and MO.... Great racetracks in the middle of nowhere. But here's the strength of races in places like China and the like. When you are pitching the series to sponsors, what sounds better? Saying you had 10 thou at one race, or 100,000 at some other race? Don't mention the where - CART used to put out a release saying that 2.6 mill people came to races each year. Can't say that now, i'm sure. But if you say they upped their overall attendance by 150000, you call that progress, regardless if China sent people at gunpoint.

What does all this mean in the end? IMO, basically CC has a plan to make the series profitable first. Then they work on the other problems. New cars, tracks they can work with, and promoters that will work with them. The damage done in 10 years of the split will not be corrected in 2 years.

Make CC profitable. Take that profit and funnel part of it to teams. Go to races where they give you wads of money and ensure that you see 75000 people at it. Build a new car that will help cut costs for teams, and that will be more 'racey'. Make sure some, if not all races, are on broadcast TV, and work at upping that number. Look for new races or work on going back to old ones.

In a couple years, you may have more races than you have now, making more money than they have before, in front of more sets of eyes than before, which see more cars on the track than now, on a TV channel in more homes than now.

Show that to prospective sponsors who are looking to put a logo on a car, prospective teams who may want to join, promoters who may want to promote, cities that may want to host, and fans who may want to watch it. Its called growth, and that is way easier to market than to stay the course, which in the past few years has proven to not work.

[pferrf1]

It look slike a spec racer ford..... kinda what it is isn't it?

[FCYTravis]

IMO, the marketing schlub would be called on the carpet also if you replaced China and Argentina with RA and MO.... Great racetracks in the middle of nowhere. But here's the strength of races in places like China and the like. When you are pitching the series to sponsors, what sounds better? Saying you had 10 thou at one race, or 100,000 at some other race? Don't mention the where - CART used to put out a release saying that 2.6 mill people came to races each year. Can't say that now, i'm sure. But if you say they upped their overall attendance by 150000, you call that progress, regardless if China sent people at gunpoint.
Yes, because we were so successful at attracting sponsors when CART put out those season attendance estimates :gomer:

Rah-rah press releases might fool the fans but they don't fool marketing execs. You seriously think that these people aren't going to look at the where because Champ Car conveniently omits it from the press release? :shakehead

The marketing schlub doesn't care about China and Argentina because most likely his company isn't SELLING anything in China or Argentina, and even if they are, that's not where his budget is supposed to be spent on. The vast majority of American companies *do not* sell anything in China and putting their logo on a car racing around in front of a bunch of Chinese is not going to do jack squat for them.

As for attracting "overseas" sponsors... well, where's the Canadian and Mexican sponsors? We have *six* successful non-American races and a grand whopping total of, what, ONE non-American sponsor?

[pchall]

Y

The marketing schlub doesn't care about China...

Yet so many "US" companies want to set up shop there.

Soon "All Your Chebbies Belong Beijing".

:gomer:

[racer2c]

Yet so many "US" companies want to set up shop there.

Soon "All Your Chebbies Belong Beijing".

:gomer:

They're falling all over themselves to get there. I don't think the the lack of sponsors is because of schedules, but rather the state at which the sport currenlty is. Once KK and GF show that the CCWS has a solid schedule, regardless of where, solid car count, in other words, longevity, the sponsors will come.

The problem CART had was that it had the majority of it's races in the US, obtained a majority US sponsors and then started moving races outside of the states. The sponsors didn't like that. The difference now is that the sponsors who fit this series demographic will join because the model will be in place.

[devilmaster]

Trav - don't corner your arguement to 'sponsors don't want to sell in china, therefore they won't sponsor' Teams have sponsors now going to go to China. A good marketer can do wonders. Marketing this series won't just be about where the track is, and if you think it is, then don't ever go into marketing. I agree if a company is not want to deal in a certain country, then they won't be interested in that country. But don't put the blinders on and talk about one aspect of the marketing of Champcar.

Pchall has it right. China is and will be big. They are on their way to be one of the economic powerhouses of this world. But lets not harp on just China either, because they aren't the only country Cc is planning to go to.

Look at a team that never seems to have a problem finding sponsors. I remember a story on N/H once that talked about their marketing guru. He works hard to find the sponsors, (and yes it helps to have a face like Newman) and always seems to get them. Yet someone like Forsythe can't replace Player's. I said it before, I wish Haas would allow his marketing head to help out CC's marketing team. He has experience and the ability to close the deal. That would be invaluable to CC because I believe that a series should help to find sponsors for cars and the overall series.

Anyways, i'll edit this when I get home.... got more to say.

[Methanolandbrats]

Champcar is trying to be a low buck version of F1. They've just about alienated all of their traditional fan base. I sure hope SPEED is part of the basic cable package in Korea and China so they can cultivate a new fan base over the next two f'n decades. Good luck.

[racer2c]

Champcar is trying to be a low buck version of F1. They've just about alienated all of their traditional fan base. I sure hope SPEED is part of the basic cable package in Korea and China so they can cultivate a new fan base over the next two f'n decades. Good luck.

They better be careful, they're not the only series trying to be a low buck F1.

They might find it's easier to take on the Moron in the States than go up against multiple competitors on an international stage.

[jonovision_man]

They better be careful, they're not the only series trying to be a low buck F1.

They might find it's easier to take on the Moron in the States than go up against multiple competitors on an international stage.

Such as...

I was looking to A1GP to be the big competition, but so far pffffft. Crappy drivers, spec series and slow cars do not a professional series make. Not to say there's no potential, but the first iteration didn't live up to the promise.

Nissan World Series has been pretty wild, but not sure they intend to be much more than they are.

CCWS is still the clear #2 to F1... biggest competitor to that title is the IRL, the other series have a lot to prove IMO.

jono

[Ankf00]

They're falling all over themselves to get there. I don't think the the lack of sponsors is because of schedules, but rather the state at which the sport currenlty is. Once KK and GF show that the CCWS has a solid schedule, regardless of where, solid car count, in other words, longevity, the sponsors will come.

The problem CART had was that it had the majority of it's races in the US, obtained a majority US sponsors and then started moving races outside of the states. The sponsors didn't like that. The difference now is that the sponsors who fit this series demographic will join because the model will be in place.

one of the only successful iniatives GM has undertaken in the recent past has been their push into China

[Racing Truth]

Wait a minute. Is ChampCar seriously going to Argentina? Seriously?

'Cuz if so, I can't imagine a dumber idea. :shakehead Why? Hint: Take a look at Argentina's recent economic history. Not pretty folks.

[Dr. Corkski]

Wait a minute. Is ChampCar seriously going to Argentina? Seriously?

'Cuz if so, I can't imagine a dumber idea. :shakehead Why? Hint: Take a look at Argentina's recent economic history. Not pretty folks.Two words:

Gaston Mazzacane.

:D

[KobySon]

I'll wait until I see an actual car, but it seems to mirror the article Gordon Kirby wrote.

Sean: What's better? Tons of manufacturers producing follow the leader racing or the series creating a spec chassis that will bring back actual racing. I'd prefer the latter. I think they're dead on. Get the racing back, who cares if Lola or Reynard or whoever make it. Then let them bring in engine and tire manufacturers. The least important manufacturer competition in my opinion is the chassis. It only leads to way too much time in the wind tunnel and everyone wanting to run in clean air.


not sure if someone replied to this in the next page and a half of discussion after the original. Just wanted to point out that identical packages lead to more aero testing in the wind tunnel rather thatn less.

[Napoleon]

not sure if someone replied to this in the next page and a half of discussion after the original. Just wanted to point out that identical packages lead to more aero testing in the wind tunnel rather thatn less.

how if you are forbidden from changing the car?

[KobySon]

how if you are forbidden from changing the car?

seems logical. of course, nappy, i have no truly original thoughts on the matter. I recall reading it in a kirby column.

this will be how the big teams gain advantage when no parts can be updated... if you can't change anything, know how it works better than anyone else and your setup will give you the advantage. Hence, more wind tunnel testing.

peace!
koby

[Ankf00]

how if you are forbidden from changing the car?

you're not though, they said they plan on allowing some room for individual team modifications...

[Insomniac]

seems logical. of course, nappy, i have no truly original thoughts on the matter. I recall reading it in a kirby column.

this will be how the big teams gain advantage when no parts can be updated... if you can't change anything, know how it works better than anyone else and your setup will give you the advantage. Hence, more wind tunnel testing.

peace!
koby

Maybe they need to limit wind tunnel testing like they limit off season testing.

[ChrisB]

Instead of Coyote '77 front wings to avoid tire cuts, how about NO front wings at all like this '82 Ferrari:

http://www.qualityscales.nl/pics/groot/Ferrari%20126C2%20G.P.%20San%20Marino%201982%20Gil les%20Villeneuve%20BRU0R267%2021.50_thumb.jpg

Otherwise I'm all for...

Lotsa tunnel downforce
Minimal wing downforce (possibly NO front wings)
FATTER tires
Short wheelbase
Roll-hoop instead of airbox
Small gasoline tank

And as always, I think it should be a single supplier spec chassis with no mods allowed.

But FIRST the amigos MUST declare it an all road-race series. That's what drives the design of the car. No more "mostly road-racing trying to accommodate ovals" stuff.

[FCYTravis]

Car needs about another foot or two in the nosebox.

Unless you want to repeat the 1980s foot-smashing epidemic. Rick Mears :(