View Full Version : CCWS Aggressively Pursuing Asian Races
racer2c
03-07-05, 12:14 PM
Robin Miller = Link (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/15535/)
KALKHOVEN IN FAR EAST
Champ Car co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven recently visited Korea, China and Japan and left the Far East convinced his series could be racing in all three countries by 2006.
"We had solid expectations going over there and they were more than fulfilled," said Kalkhoven. "All three countries were very enthusiastic and we're putting an office in the Far East shortly."
The 2005 schedule calls for Champ Car to run in Seoul, Korea this October and Kalkhoven was present for the groundbreaking ceremony at the new road course.
"It was unbelievable," he stated. "There were 1,000 officials at that ceremony and we've got the full support of the city and national government. It's my hope we can get a couple of Korean drivers into our Formula Atlantic series and get them to Champ Car with Korean sponsors."
Kalkhoven's next stop was Beijing, where he met with the Beijing State Asset Management Company to discuss the possibility of a race.
"It's a fantastic city and I will remain confident we'll have a race there in 2006," said the man who along with Gerald Forsythe rescued the bankrupt CART circuit in 2004.
From China, the 60-year-old Aussie jetted to Japan in the northern island of Hokkaido to discuss the possibility of a future Champ Car show.
"We were very professional in our approach and we gave our presentations on DVDs narrated by Paul Newman in Korean, Chinese and Japanese," said Kalkhoven.
"We are bringing 60 government officials from Korea, China and Japan to Long Beach to see what we're all about."
TG: "Plan? There is no plan! I just copy what CART did."
KK: "This is what we are working toward for the Pacific Rim market."
Methanolandbrats
03-07-05, 12:59 PM
Are they going to change the name to GSPWS?
if the races pay, and they can get sponsors for drivers, w00t. just better not be san jose style...
Sean O'Gorman
03-07-05, 01:17 PM
Yay, I can't wait.
Spicoli
03-07-05, 01:21 PM
more races i can;t get to. :thumdown:
I understand though. gotta follow the money.
devilmaster
03-07-05, 01:48 PM
more races i can;t get to. :thumdown:
I understand though. gotta follow the money.
Exactly. As much as I want places like Detroit, MIS, Mid-ohio, Seca, RA, Naz, (insert your favorite race no longer here) etc.etc., the company must have a majority of highly profitable races to survive and thrive.
We as the hardcore fans, need to keep reminding ChampCar that if these new races are really profitable and they bring Champcar into the black, that should ensure that one or two of the not so profitable races (like an RA, like an MO) come back and/or remain on the circuit.
Think of it like a chain of retail stores. Some stores are huge profit-makers, some not as much. But if the whole of the company is healthy, that can ensure some of the weaker stores will remain, while the company works on building them up. I see the track list no differently.
Go where the money is. Cut the dead-weight but historic tracks for now to ensure profitability. If the company returns to the black, go back and look at returning to these old tracks, and rebuild the event.
Steve
The money is in China! I've been saying this for 5 years now, ever since the seventhgear days. China are trying to get some of their drivers in open wheel racing around the world. Something almost happened with Euro F3000 and Lamberto Leoni 4-5 season's ago. I'm telling you, this is the new Mexico in terms of sponsorship!
For Atlantics too; I'm sure CCWS can place a few Chinese drivers in 3-4 loyal Atlantic teams for a few seasons as a training for potential Champcar career. Get the Chinese to pay for the season and parlay that money to run a young American in the second car. The Chinese sponsor is on both cars, the Chinese driver will learn from the more experienced American driver and the Atlantic team will survive another year. I think there is a Chinese F.Renault series and I know there is an Asian F.BMW series. So, there are some drivers out there who can make F.Atlantic their next step.
They have to hurry up, or the Europeans will attract these guys first. The A1 series would be a good alternative to Champcars, but A1 does not have a feeder series like Champcar does, so we have an advantage. :thumbup:
Somewhere a silly pony is smiling.
devilmaster
03-07-05, 02:13 PM
The money is in China!
Bingo. China is becoming an economic powerhouse. American companies are falling over each other trying to get into the country. China is heading to be one of the world's economic powers. It may take years, but it will happen.
Steve
pferrf1
03-07-05, 03:04 PM
Bingo. China is becoming an economic powerhouse. American companies are falling over each other trying to get into the country. China is heading to be one of the world's economic powers. It may take years, but it will happen.
Steve
It has happened - they are there.
World prices for Steel and Oil are at record highs because of China. The ports onthe west coast of North America are clogged with long waiting timnes ot unload container ships - because so much of what Norht America consumes is made in China.
I suppose we'll find out soon enough but I think the race in China should be at that Comp Speed International Race Circuit, an Allan Wilson designed track in Beijing. Construction began last year then was halted, (gee, politics?) but if completed and used would be a good alternative to another "cookie cutter" slow concrete street canyon. Expansion to the Rim is fine, but poor track choice could be the greatest "danger" ChampCar faces. Suzuka in Japan? Motegi? Gotta be places where Champcars can BREATHE! Ansan ain't it! Neither is San Jose.
I understand Hawaii is building a new track with an eye to the future. I think it could qualify as part of a 2-part Asian Tour. Perhaps CC should make it a goal to do 3 in Canada, 2 in Mexico, 2 in South America, 4 in Asia and 7 in the US. We don't hear much about Europe anymore.
jonovision_man
03-07-05, 06:11 PM
I understand Hawaii is building a new track with an eye to the future. I think it could qualify as part of a 2-part Asian Tour. Perhaps CC should make it a goal to do 3 in Canada, 2 in Mexico, 2 in South America, 4 in Asia and 7 in the US. We don't hear much about Europe anymore.
Europe almost made sense... F1 was looking to be pulling a lot of races out, but then they went back to Spa and seem to be staying at most of the European venues. Sounds like they're adding Turkey, too.
KK has it right, target the emerging markets. They have very few races relative to their population, and there is a lot of public money behind promoting the country on the international stage. Should be some big bucks, especially if they can put together a "Ring of Fire" swing. :)
jono
I understand Hawaii is building a new track with an eye to the future. I think it could qualify as part of a 2-part Asian Tour. Perhaps CC should make it a goal to do 3 in Canada, 2 in Mexico, 2 in South America, 4 in Asia and 7 in the US. We don't hear much about Europe anymore.
Here's what KK had to say on markets in another story...
"I think CART got into trouble because it lost sight of what it was," says Kalkhoven, whose Champ Cars will be roaring around downtown Long Beach on April 8-10. "It got distracted, went into places where it should not have gone. You're not going to compete successfully with Formula I in Europe. That's just not going to happen.
"Our overseas races will now be in the Pacific Rim. Australia, China, Korea, places like that. To be successful in this business in any business, for that matter is placing the right product in the right market place to the right customers. You do that, and things will come out all right for you."
http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,204~28780~2734427,00.html
So it sounds like Kalkhoven has a notion of where CART when wrong with their overseas trips. A big part of that support for the event is sustainable. It does not good to find someone who will write you a big check if they're going to go bankrupt or get kicked out of office.
jonovision_man
03-07-05, 09:55 PM
So it sounds like Kalkhoven has a notion of where CART when wrong with their overseas trips. A big part of that support for the event is sustainable. It does not good to find someone who will write you a big check if they're going to go bankrupt or get kicked out of office.
For sure. His point about F1 is smart, going head to head where another series is so dominant is a tough slog. Almost like the IRL trying to compete in NASCAR country? Hmm.
jono
racer2c
03-07-05, 10:13 PM
I think it's smart they get in now. NASCAR obviously has it's sights set outside the US borders and F1 is already there and will proably be going there more. And of course, once Tony gets wind of this, he'll want to do it to.
I would like to see longevity in the races no matter where they are held, and I stil think the key for the CCWS's longevity is a proactive title sponser who is commited to a long term contract and who believes in the product and is willing to help it grow.
jonovision_man
03-07-05, 10:18 PM
I think it's smart they get in now. NASCAR obviously has it's sights set outside the US borders and F1 is already there and will proably be going there more. And of course, once Tony gets wind of this, he'll want to do it to.
I would like to see longevity in the races no matter where they are held, and I stil think the key for the CCWS's longevity is a proactive title sponser who is commited to a long term contract and who believes in the product and is willing to help it grow.
Do you think they're talking street circuits, or real permanent facilities? I didn't see any indication in the article, other than Korea being a road circuit.
jono
Do you think they're talking street circuits, or real permanent facilities? I didn't see any indication in the article, other than Korea being a road circuit.
jono
There's mention of going to Hokkaido. There's a permanent road course there.
Tokachi 3+ miles long
http://www.jgtc.net/race/race_img/circuit/c_tokachi_s.gif
China....
BEIJING (AP) — A proposed Chinese anti-secession law would authorize Beijing to take military action to stop rival Taiwan from pursuing formal independence if peaceful persuasion fails, a leader of China's parliament said Tuesday.
Hell yes, let's race there... :rolleyes:
lone_groover
03-08-05, 08:48 AM
I'd keep out of China on moral grounds, and west of Java on geo-tectonic grounds.
:)
China....
BEIJING (AP) — A proposed Chinese anti-secession law would authorize Beijing to take military action to stop rival Taiwan from pursuing formal independence if peaceful persuasion fails, a leader of China's parliament said Tuesday.
Hell yes, let's race there... :rolleyes:
werd.
devilmaster
03-08-05, 11:53 AM
werd.
damn.... what were those crazy olympic nuts thinking??!?!?!? :saywhat:
jonovision_man
03-08-05, 12:07 PM
damn.... what were those crazy olympic nuts thinking??!?!?!? :saywhat:
:)
Or that crazy Bernie nut running F1 in Shanghai in front of huge crowds.
jono
racer2c
03-08-05, 12:11 PM
It's all fun and games until they reach 2 billion. Then they'll need more land. :gomer:
lone_groover
03-08-05, 12:16 PM
My parents stopped at 3 kids.
;) :)
Forza Lancia
03-08-05, 12:20 PM
I think it's smart they get in now. NASCAR obviously has it's sights set outside the US borders and F1 is already there and will proably be going there more. And of course, once Tony gets wind of this, he'll want to do it to.
I would like to see longevity in the races no matter where they are held, and I stil think the key for the CCWS's longevity is a proactive title sponser who is commited to a long term contract and who believes in the product and is willing to help it grow.
Well said. The unfortunate NASCAR-ization of the USA requires that a series like ChampCar looks to foreign venues to survive. And if cities like Beijing are willing to spend half of what Shanghai must have spent (I was there for the F1 race -- a very impressive circuit in a very, very impressive city), the CCWS teams will think they've died and gone to heaven. For better or worse, the Pacific rim (especially the Chinese part...) is the future, I'm convinced.
Hard Driver
03-08-05, 01:48 PM
From a completely personal perspective.
I watch races on TV.
I prefer real road courses over city courses
I would rather watch a real road course in China over a crappy street course in Houston.
And I think the TV audience would too. I knowt he street courses make money with the attendence. But, IMO, they are not going to get back the TV ratings. And the TV ratings bring in the sponsors.
jonovision_man
03-08-05, 01:50 PM
Well said. The unfortunate NASCAR-ization of the USA requires that a series like ChampCar looks to foreign venues to survive. And if cities like Beijing are willing to spend half of what Shanghai must have spent (I was there for the F1 race -- a very impressive circuit in a very, very impressive city), the CCWS teams will think they've died and gone to heaven. For better or worse, the Pacific rim (especially the Chinese part...) is the future, I'm convinced.
:flame: The Ring of Fire swing :flame:
:D
jono
:flame: The Ring of Fire swing :flame:
I fell in to a burning ring of fire
I went down,down,down
and the flames went higher.
And it burns,burns,burns
the ring of fire
the ring of fire.
I fell in to a burning ring of fire
I went down,down,down
and the flames went higher.
And it burns,burns,burns
the ring of fire
the ring of fire.
Would you feel better if Preparation H was the series sponsor for that part of the year and sent you free samples?
lone_groover
03-08-05, 02:57 PM
Ring of Fire? I listen every Saturday.
;) :thumbup:
cash :cool:
time for some folsom prison live.
lone_groover
03-08-05, 03:34 PM
The WALL of VOODOO version is pretty good too. Ominous and menacing.
Stan Ridgeway: The Ethel Merman of rock©
:cool:
Would you feel better if Preparation H was the series sponsor for that part of the year and sent you free samples?
Sure, then I could donate them to the old folks home so you and the gang could cruise in comfort. :p
http://www.seattlepress.com/user/art/1998/frosty.jpeg
In the mean time, how 'bout some more music.
"I've been everywhere, man
I've been everywhere, man
Crossed the deserts bare, man
I've breathed the mountain air, man
Travel...I've had my share, man
I've been everywhere
I've been to"
Long Beach
Vegas
Monterrey
San Jose
Mexico City
Milwaukee
Montreal
Toronto
Australia
Korea
Denver
Portland
Cleveland
Edmonton
What fun
I've been everywhere
Sean O'Gorman
03-08-05, 04:06 PM
cash :cool:
time for some folsom prison live.
:mad:
I hate having to agree with you.
When Champ Car talks to Road America George Whatshisname says, “Well, we’d really like to work something out, maybe a race in February.”
When Champ Car talks to Korea it's, "It was unbelievable," he stated. "There were 1,000 officials at that ceremony and we've got the full support of the city and national government.”
The choice is obvious.
racer2c
03-08-05, 10:15 PM
When Champ Car talks to Road America George Whatshisname says, “Well, we’d really like to work something out, maybe a race in February.”
When Champ Car talks to Korea it's, "It was unbelievable," he stated. "There were 1,000 officials at that ceremony and we've got the full support of the city and national government.”
The choice is obvious.
A big cheerleader thumbs up to that post. :thumbup:
FYI... to those whom it may concern, no Champ Car fan, if given the choice of RA vs. an over seas race, would choose the latter. The issue is one of survival and I'm surprised how hard that is for some to understand.
Ring of Fire? I listen every Saturday.
;) :thumbup:
It's what I felt on Sunday and Monday after screwing up oc's chili recipe on Saturday. :gomer:
Methanolandbrats
03-08-05, 11:37 PM
A big cheerleader thumbs up to that post. :thumbup:
FYI... to those whom it may concern, no Champ Car fan, if given the choice of RA vs. an over seas race, would choose the latter. The issue is one of survival and I'm surprised how hard that is for some to understand. I'm surprised it's so hard for people to understand that Champcar is evolving into an expensive travelling carnival that is abandoning all of it's roots developed over the last quarter century. If it works, fine, a new business is born. Just quite calling it Champcar. Call it the GSCWS (Global Street Crashing World Series) If the model does'nt work they are screwed because ALMS, GrandAm, Busch and possibly NAPCAR will have taken all the traditional dates at real North American Racetracks and the entire old timer fan base will be long gone.
Spicoli
03-08-05, 11:46 PM
A big cheerleader thumbs up to that post. :thumbup:
FYI... to those whom it may concern, no Champ Car fan, if given the choice of RA vs. an over seas race, would choose the latter. The issue is one of survival and I'm surprised how hard that is for some to understand.
not everyone can be F1.
EARL is just 5 years behind CART in ****ing up. And they WILL **** up in the SAME exact way. Hey, we have that on them. ;)
Depender says we must all "evolve" and "adapt". He's always right, just ask him. :gomer:
racer2c
03-09-05, 12:00 AM
I'm surprised it's so hard for people to understand that Champcar is evolving into an expensive travelling carnival that is abandoning all of it's roots developed over the last quarter century. If it works, fine, a new business is born. Just quite calling it Champcar. Call it the GSCWS (Global Street Crashing World Series) If the model does'nt work they are screwed because ALMS, GrandAm, Busch and possibly NAPCAR will have taken all the traditional dates at real North American Racetracks and the entire old timer fan base will be long gone.
The biggest problem Champ Car faces right now is that there is common trend among competitors, that being 'International races'. The US is still getting it's feet under it and the big money is only going to the tried and true e.g. NASCAR. But even NASCAR sees that there is a whole world out there for them to put their logo on. My concern is that OWRS won't have the resources to compete against Bernie, France or Honda and Toyota. That is why I think it's good they are reaching out now to establish themselves in some big revenue events.
What people continue to forget is that the CCWS is a one year old series. The more money it makes the greater the chance that they will be willing to break even or even take a loss on a classic venue such as Road America in order to please it's "old timer" fans and new road racing fans alike. Diversified revenue. But the truth be known, the "old timers" jumped to NASCAR ten years ago and the potential new fans aren't driving to the middle of nowhere to see a race.
I'm surprised it's so hard for people to understand that Champcar is evolving into an expensive travelling carnival that is abandoning all of it's roots developed over the last quarter century. If it works, fine, a new business is born. Just quite calling it Champcar. Call it the GSCWS (Global Street Crashing World Series) If the model does'nt work they are screwed because ALMS, GrandAm, Busch and possibly NAPCAR will have taken all the traditional dates at real North American Racetracks and the entire old timer fan base will be long gone.
Actually, it would be pretty true to their history. They started on public roads, moved to dirt ovals, board tracks, paved ovals and finally back to road courses. Champ car has always evolved. If your logic had been applied in 1978 we would have USAC running the Indy 500 and maybe ten other oval races with a couple of them being repeat visits to the same venue.
I wish we could have CART circa 1995 back, too. But no sponsor is going to pay those costs with fractional ratings and nothing but diehards at the track.
Methanolandbrats
03-09-05, 12:18 AM
Racer2c, I don't agree the "old timers" left. I think the casual fans left because leisure time money is not spent on political debates. The "old timers" are the ones supporting the series.......for now.......
nrc...you're probably right, the whole thing is shot to hell and something else may or may not grow out of the mess.
I'm surprised it's so hard for people to understand that Champcar is evolving into an expensive travelling carnival that is abandoning all of it's roots developed over the last quarter century. If it works, fine, a new business is born. Just quite calling it Champcar. Call it the GSCWS (Global Street Crashing World Series) If the model does'nt work they are screwed because ALMS, GrandAm, Busch and possibly NAPCAR will have taken all the traditional dates at real North American Racetracks and the entire old timer fan base will be long gone.
:thumbup: agreed m&b ...the plan may work, the overseas races successful, and more mfg money will flow into the series with tg rotting in his yard of bricks but I doubt we'll ever see the likes of RA and MO back on the schedule...the series will be saved and 8 billion south east Asians may be watching on television but I doubt there'll be any domestic audience left.
racer2c
03-09-05, 12:54 AM
Racer2c, I don't agree the "old timers" left. I think the casual fans left because leisure time money is not spent on political debates. The "old timers" are the ones supporting the series.......for now.......
nrc...you're probably right, the whole thing is shot to hell and something else may or may not grow out of the mess.
Depends on your definition of 'old timers'. According to SOG and Ank, I'm an old timer (at 36) which is not the same as my old man who brought me up watching Fittipaldi, Andretti, Mears, Rutherford et al in the 70's and 80's.
CART garnered allot of new fans in the late 90's because of fantastic racing and great personalities e.g. Zanardi, Vasser, Tracey etc. Those same fans are the ones that became disenfranchised by the politics. The old timers like my pop left right at the split. when I first signed on to 7G I remember seeing a member photo page where many of the pictures where of people who looked like my grand parents. They quickly became frustrated with the politics and frankly, IMO when Mario retired, so did many of the old fans.
I get a very funny feeling while watching a new IRL race. Seeing so many of the drivers that I once held in high esteem participate in a series that I despise so much. One thing is certain, no matter what Crapus says, which isn't much, I'll be a Champ Car cheerleader until Champ Car is no more. It's an integrity thang. And yes, staying true to the series roots counts as integrity, but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt, unlike some.
Ra ra sis boom ba beeeotch! :middle finger to the haters:
I know there's a few F1 fans on my longhorn forum and none of them keep track of champ car b/c of the politics... they just want to watch racing, nothing more nothing less...
Open wheel in America is more or less dead. It was killed by those who were entrusted with stewardship for it. The worst thing Champ Car could do is pursue getting a race at Mid-Ohio while ignoring markets where they are wanted.
I don’t like it either, but Champ Car needs money to survive and grow. If the money is in Korea, that’s where it is.
I'm not sure that the series could really link itself to the Champ Car history anymore if they continue this shift offshore. Champcar, throughout history was a North American racing series, this evolving :rolleyes: product seems to be aiming towards new races in untouched markets while holding onto a few old venues to keep old fans interested. While I'll be patient for a while, the fact they're leaving M/O, RA, apparently Montreal, Laguna, possibly Toronto laying open for TG to come in and pick apart is disturbing. I'm trying to figure out just what this series is trying to position itself as. A multi-national street racing/carnival event organizer and presenter? Not much there for me to grab ahold of and embrace. I'm giving it another year, by then this series will probably begin bringing it's real direction into a clearer view, if it's not what I'm interested in I suppose I'll just fade away like so many other Cart fans of old and find another racing series to spend my $$ on. :(
I'm not sure that the series could really link itself to the Champ Car history anymore if they continue this shift offshore. Champcar, throughout history was a North American racing series, this evolving :rolleyes: product seems to be aiming towards new races in untouched markets while holding onto a few old venues to keep old fans interested. While I'll be patient for a while, the fact they're leaving M/O, RA, apparently Montreal, Laguna, possibly Toronto laying open for TG to come in and pick apart is disturbing. I'm trying to figure out just what this series is trying to position itself as. A multi-national street racing/carnival event organizer and presenter? Not much there for me to grab ahold of and embrace. I'm giving it another year, by then this series will probably begin bringing it's real direction into a clearer view, if it's not what I'm interested in I suppose I'll just fade away like so many other Cart fans of old and find another racing series to spend my $$ on. :(
I think that's about where I'm at..trying to hold on, trying to be patient, knowing that money is needed in the short term while worrying about the long term direction...Bernie won't like them become too successful overseas I'm guessing, yet with NASCAR defining "racing" in North America and tg ruining open wheel's identity...what is really left?
While I'll be patient for a while, the fact they're leaving M/O, RA, apparently Montreal, Laguna, possibly Toronto laying open for TG to come in and pick apart is disturbing.
The whole thing about Toronto and Montreal (not that Champ car has a long history there, anyway) is being stirred up by one Canadian sports writer. If Champ car ends up out of those places it won't be by choice.
Jdcooperclan
03-09-05, 12:29 PM
racer2c is wise beyond his years.
From a completely personal perspective.
I watch races on TV.
I prefer real road courses over city courses
I would rather watch a real road course in China over a crappy street course in Houston.
And I think the TV audience would too. I knowt he street courses make money with the attendence. But, IMO, they are not going to get back the TV ratings. And the TV ratings bring in the sponsors.
I agree. I think they are going to Asia for two reasons, it's the only place Champ Car hasn't tried to go to get their footing back. I think they are looking to rebadge the ebgines is an Asian manufacturer.
I think exception for San Jose they are done with expanding in the U.S. market.
Racing Truth
03-14-05, 02:31 PM
There's mention of going to Hokkaido. There's a permanent road course there.
Tokachi 3+ miles long
http://www.jgtc.net/race/race_img/circuit/c_tokachi_s.gif
That looks interesting, I must say.
And now, a nerdy dissertation on China :gomer: :
I'm guessing most here know this, but despite pretenses, China hasn't been Communist in years. As a result, their economy has experienced remarkable growth. Deng Xiaoping (sp?) knew that hard-line Maoism wasn't going to work and saw the Cultural Revolution for the disaster it was.
At the time of Mao's death, China was, outside of a couple urban centers, stuck in the 19th century. Since then, China has changed quite a bit. The government is still dictatorial and abusing human rights, but many Chinese are content. Why? B/c many are doing quite well.
Sure, China still has A LOT of rural, agricultural areas to it, but the China of today has finally entered the modern world.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Should we race there? I dunno. I do have issues with the nature of the regime, but like it or not, China is on the verge of becoming a major world power. Still, a N. American series racing there smacks of an endorsement of the regime. Tough call, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
Racing Truth
03-14-05, 04:55 PM
As for whether, from a CCWS POV, this is a good idea: I'm not sure. Japan makes no sense to me, as you would seem to be competing with the GP. One could say the same about China, but given the comparative size, this could work. Korea makes some sense to me, provided Kim Jong Il doesn't wake up on the wrong side of the bed.
My issue, though, is the notion "Hey, if they'll pay..." I understand this, but ultimately folks, "If you want to make money, you've got to spend money." Just going to the highest bidder ultimately strikes me as a bad idea.
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