View Full Version : Sure sign of BS racing
Sure sign of BS racing - Bruno running around glued to the inside line all the way around and Carp can't get by running a normal racing line.
jonovision_man
09-26-04, 08:08 AM
Sure sign of BS racing - Bruno running around glued to the inside line all the way around and Carp can't get by running a normal racing line.
So CCWS is starting to look like the IRL on ovals while the IRL is going road racing? :rolleyes: Why do we need two series again ;)
I'm watching it now, for some reason I can't hear the @#$% cars... just the announcers. Another XXXXed up broadcast in the works.
jono
Sean O'Gorman
09-26-04, 08:12 AM
Well at least Carpentier is getting some good practice for next season. :rolleyes:
Well at least Carpentier is getting some good practice for next season. :rolleyes:
TRUE! :D
GOFAST1
09-26-04, 09:12 AM
This is not racing. Champcar should never punish their fans like this again.
Methanolandbrats
09-26-04, 09:29 AM
This is not racing. Champcar should never punish their fans like this again. Thank you. Now I will not have to waste my time this afternoon. Excellent review! :thumbup:
Rogue Leader
09-26-04, 04:29 PM
Wow... I'm 30 minutes into this race and its worse than the IRL... Don't mean to be a D&Ger but my God would 20 more MPH been that bad to add to these cars? you hit a wall at 200 or 220 youre just as F*ed...
Jag_Warrior
09-26-04, 05:09 PM
The last CCWS oval race I went to was Nazareth several years ago. About the only thing that got passed during that race was the time of day. I'll probably never fall in love with formula cars on ovals, but if I had to choose between this and what I saw at Nazareth (back when purity in racing was still the rage on 7th Gear), I'll take this.
Railbird
09-26-04, 05:34 PM
huggy pole bs
I guess the question is whether they chose this package because they wanted that kind of foolishness or because they didn't think they could come up with a safe package that would allow Real Racing (tm) and that all the teams could afford at mid-season.
spinner26
09-26-04, 05:48 PM
This is not racing. Champcar should never punish their fans like this again.
Where were the other 60,000 fans. Was the announced crowed of 77,000 a mis print and should have been 17,000.
Railbird
09-26-04, 05:57 PM
I was suprised how strong the crowd looked myself.
The racing sucked.
dey was a goin' wheel to wheel while getting cramps in the arch of their feet.
SUCK!
IRL drill in place for this one
watch the first ten laps
watch the last ten
hope nobody busts their *** in the mean time.
:thumdown:
my understanding is they were concerned about g sickness
hopefully next year they can do more testing and run less wing
Rogue Leader
09-26-04, 06:14 PM
my understanding is they were concerned about g sickness
hopefully next year they can do more testing and run less wing
that was BS.... They wanted to keep the cars closer together for closer racing/passing, however thats how the IRL works, and as we all know it sucks
They should NEVER race on these Tri Oval deals. What a joke.
Rather than push to pass, I would like to see them all given hand guns.
"Junqueira pulls up alongside Bourdais, remember, he has only three shots left".....
TK "Looks like that shot deflected off the upright". "I remember when I was racing, I always made sure I got a really good sightline"
RD "Oh Tom, your such a Cad"
TK "Bruno needs to squeeze the trigger, He's pulling it way to fast"
RD "Looks like Bourdais is ducking down in the cockpit, eh Tommy"?
TK "Yeah, that hot lead projectile reminds me of when I shared a room with Bob Jenkins earlier this year in Frisco".
Methanolandbrats
09-26-04, 06:22 PM
Champcar just PAID $500,000 to stage an IRL race. Can someone explain this to me?
Thanks everyone for posting my thoughts. I was going to express the same sentiment figuring I'd be labeled a doom and gloomer or gomer in the process. It was obvious to me the drivers don't think much of this garbage either from the comments Bourdais and Bruno made....I lost interest early and began to read a book as the race was being run in the background, I should have done something outside instead of wasting my time watching a pedal to the metal, momentum race.... It was a beautiful day.
Sean O'Gorman
09-26-04, 08:21 PM
Champcar just PAID $500,000 to stage an IRL race. Can someone explain this to me?
Well, at least they aren't paying as much for IRL races as TG is. :D
I don't think I'm going to bother watching the tape of this one. Saw eight great races at Mid-Ohio today, don't need to ruin my day with sidebysidebysidebyside racing. Think I'll watch the re-air of F1 China and hope they improve the aero package for next year. :thumbup:
FWIW, the fans in the stands seemed to enjoy it. (except for that long yellow for RHR, everybody was unhappy with that).
FWIW, the fans in the stands seemed to enjoy it. (except for that long yellow for RHR, everybody was unhappy with that).
..and McDonalds sells alot of burgers....doesn't mean they're any good....
....Ooops...forgot they were on our side.
I fast forwarded through large chunks. If they go back to that track,there better be major changes so the cars don't stay glued to the bottom, but it'd be better if they didn't go back.
Dr. Corkski
09-27-04, 12:15 AM
FWIW, the fans in the stands seemed to enjoy it. (except for that long yellow for RHR, everybody was unhappy with that).But are fans who enjoy crapwagon style racing what Champ Car want?
But are fans who enjoy crapwagon style racing what Champ Car want?
Just like races in Korea ...it doesn't matter, whatever pays the bills...whatever saves Champcar... :rolleyes: :thumdown: :shakehead
Chiphead_Dave
09-27-04, 04:23 AM
Does this sound familure.
INSIDE, INSIDE, INSIDE, INSIDE, STILL INSIDE.
I mean I new it was all screwed when they just stayed glued to the white
stripe and the engine note dropped like 20 RPM due to increased drag when the wheel was turned.
TK " You might as well just velcro it down" (refering to the accelerator).
Well anymore races like that and the only way I will watch is velcro on my ass.
The only thing worse was Junkies whining session after the race.
I actually wanted to kill my TV. My kids can't throw a temper tantrum
that good.
WOT baby, WOT! :cool: Hornish could peddle himself out as a hired gun for a CCWS team next year if our races fall on earl off-weekends. :thumbup: :p
The last CCWS oval race I went to was Nazareth several years ago. About the only thing that got passed during that race was the time of day. I'll probably never fall in love with formula cars on ovals, but if I had to choose between this and what I saw at Nazareth (back when purity in racing was still the rage on 7th Gear), I'll take this.
I'm gonna vote for this point of view.
Having never seen an IRL race, I can’t say from experience, but obviously the point was to bunch the cars up. Was it bogus? I suppose. Did I like it? Well it kept me awake, although I wouldn’t want to watch it every weekend.
Still, based solely on the last twenty laps, I know which Newman Haas driver has bigger set, and based on the post race interviews, I know which Newman Haas driver has a future as a parking lot attendant.
CART T. Katz
09-27-04, 09:06 AM
one thing though, sebass and bruno were able to pull away. you can't do that in a crapwagon.
other than the fact than there was way too much df for the cars and bruno seemed to want to force sebastien down below the apron at speed the last 20 laps, i found the race enjoyable.
Just like races in Korea ...it doesn't matter, whatever pays the bills...whatever saves Champcar... :rolleyes: :thumdown: :shakehead
The "we gotta race in America crowd" should be thrilled with the Vegas race. It was in America.
Me, I'd rather watch real racing, on a real track, in front of real fans even if it is in Australia.
The fact that Australians don't all leave during the first yellow is proof to me that maybe foreigners aren't so bad after all.
I didn't like the fact that you could stick the car on the inside line for the whole lap. You could see that the behind or outside cars were faster than the one on the line, just not enough of a difference to actually make the pass. So, they had to run two wide or ride behind and then, just before hitting the gear box, move outside until the inside car is far enough in front to fall behind again.
Maybe if they left the Push to pass in... Then at least you could get by the guy when you got up to him. You would have to use the moves sparingly so you didn't burn the whole 60sec early in the race.
Hopefully, next year they will get a package for this race that doesn't allow foot to the floor all the way around!
4wheeldrifter
09-27-04, 09:41 AM
I was suprised how strong the crowd looked myself.
The racing sucked.
dey was a goin' wheel to wheel while getting cramps in the arch of their feet.
SUCK!
IRL drill in place for this one
watch the first ten laps
watch the last ten
hope nobody busts their *** in the mean time.
:thumdown:
I'll add to the pile.... :p
Watched the first 10 laps. Saw enough in-car to realize I was watching an Earl race, minus the crapwagons. Went out and cut the grass.
Came back in to watch the last 15 laps, made it until 9 laps to go, and left the room never to return.
It $ucked,,,, don't do it again. After seeing this stuff, I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone watches the Earl. Even the worst street "parade" is better than that cr@p. Way better.
<end rant>
[edit]
BTW... The real racing was in Mansfield this weekend. The Runoffs at M-O were a blast. Watching the American Sedan class (unmuffled V-8 Detroit iron) sitting in Thunder Valley was a hoot. :thumbup:
I'm really not a fan of ovals in general but for me, a chance to see the ChampCars and spend a few days in Vegas was a no-brainer. Pretty cool to watch the race with the mountains and the lights of vegas in the background.
I heard or read somewhere lately (sorry can't recall where) that the primary reason for the excessive down force was not knowing how the cars would behave running on the Nascar truck's rubber. That appears not to have been a problem so I expect the aero package to be changed some for next years race.
Assuming they hold the race again next year I will go again.
Edit: BTW, I have no idea how this race compares to an earl race since I have never watched one.
Warlock!
09-27-04, 10:15 AM
watch the first ten laps
watch the last ten
Exactly what I did. After the first few laps you realize the only thing that could happen to produce any "drama" was wheels a-touchin'. Tivo-ing thru at super-duper fast forward I saw a few frames of dust and went back to see RHR somehow sliding off the pitlane. More FFing found the patented "IRL-side-by-side" for the final 20 or so laps. I clicked it back to normal speed to listen to the interviews, but that was it.
Really damned depressing save for the fact that there were no major incidents, despite having Rodolfo, Phil, and Gaston on our side.
Warlock!
Dirty Sanchez
09-27-04, 10:31 AM
bush
Methanolandbrats
09-27-04, 10:53 AM
[QUOTE=FTG]The "we gotta race in America crowd" should be thrilled with the Vegas race. It was in America.
QUOTE]
Wrong, wrong and wrong. Vegas sucked. Champcar PAID to race there yet they claim they won't race anywhere they are not paid their sanctioning fee. Obviously they have a sliding sanctioning fee scale and negotiate with each venue. Champcar has decided to be an urban racing series and abandon real racing circuits. This is a huge mistake. If the IRL gets MO, RA and possibly Laguna in 2006 Champcar is done. It has nothing to do with "racing in America", it has to do preserving business relationships with tracks have defined Champcar.
The racing -- as I followed it on Race Director -- was pretty bogus. Not exactly up to IRL levels of bogusity [is that a word?], but damned close. I've seen just enough IRL on comps or creds from a local radio station to know that Lost Wages wasn't as bad as IRL at Kentucky, but insanely close.
darrylkropp
09-27-04, 11:33 AM
I recorded this race as TSN broadcast it at 5AM for some reason. Let me tell you, the fast forward button was used a lot when I watched it last night. One word: BORING.
Second comment: I'm not sure how it was on SPIKE or RD, but on TSN, I could barely hear the cars. The exception was through JB's microphone when he was doing pit commentary.
I understand why you would compare this to an IRL race, but there are a couple MAJOR differences.
Nobody wrecked
Nobody spent the night (and next 6 months) in the hospital.
I thought the race was enjoyable. Though, they do need to change the specs for next year.
RaceGrrl
09-27-04, 11:48 AM
The race was dead boring. Watched some of it, got sleepy, went to bed. Checked Cart.com the next day for results and although we did Tivo the race, I don't feel like wasting an evening watching it.
jonovision_man
09-27-04, 12:57 PM
I recorded this race as TSN broadcast it at 5AM for some reason. Let me tell you, the fast forward button was used a lot when I watched it last night. One word: BORING.
Second comment: I'm not sure how it was on SPIKE or RD, but on TSN, I could barely hear the cars. The exception was through JB's microphone when he was doing pit commentary.
It was on TSN at 5am because they shoved it into the F1 replay spot (8amEST) when the race was a late addition.
That not hearing car thing drove me NUTS, really took a lot away from the race! :( Another botched broadcast. If I wasn't already a fan I wouldn't become one with what's been on TV, that's for sure... not a good way to build a series.
jono
I don't think Push to Pass would have made any difference. It was pretty clear from the get-go that the last 10 laps would be the ones that mattered. All PTP would have meant is that the lights would have been flashing as they droned side by side for the finish line.
I'm not a fan of this form of "racing" either. But, I don't mind it once or twice a year. I sure as heck wouldn't want 8 or 9 of the cookie cutters on the schedule.
Hopefully next year they'll flatten the wings a bit, and let them race.
I spent Sunday afternoon watching a ChampCar race and watching my little ones cause mischief and mayhem. Best race ever? No. Worst race ever? No. Need some fixing? Yes. A sign of the death of ChampCar? No. Do I want CC to follow the Great Visionary's lead (version13.254.7.9)? Hell no. FTG.
SeaBass' move at the end, wow. Pucker factor off the scale.
(For some reason, I feel the need to add a bunch of commas,,,,)
Sean O'Gorman
09-27-04, 01:33 PM
But are fans who enjoy crapwagon style racing what Champ Car want?
Seeing as they have been going after quite a few obscure markets lately, I'm starting to think that answer is yes. :D
Put the driver back in the equation, and this race could be pretty sweet. Otherwise, its just like watching IRL. :thumdown:
Fitti Fan
09-27-04, 02:43 PM
I understand why you would compare this to an IRL race, but there are a couple MAJOR differences.
Nobody wrecked
Nobody spent the night (and next 6 months) in the hospital.
I thought the race was enjoyable. Though, they do need to change the specs for next year.
Ditto
FWIW, the fans in the stands seemed to enjoy it. (except for that long yellow for RHR, everybody was unhappy with that).
I was in the stands and I was pissed with the full throttle round and round racing (if thats what you want to call that) but, you are right some did enjoy it, even some in my group, GO FIGURE. I told them, then you should be going to irl races cause thats what this is! MO it sucked! But, my 1st time to Vegas and I had a good time :D
The "we gotta race in America crowd" should be thrilled with the Vegas race. It was in America.
Me, I'd rather watch real racing, on a real track, in front of real fans even if it is in Australia.
The fact that Australians don't all leave during the first yellow is proof to me that maybe foreigners aren't so bad after all.
Apparently you haven't read my other posts or I haven't expressed my opinions thoroughly. I'm not against foreign races if they're chosen well. I 'd like to see races in countries that have a racing heritage; Germany, England, Brazil...Argentina might work as well. While the Canadian and Mexican events are frankly what's keeping the series alive right now. I know the Euro races have been tried but I think too that it takes time to develop an event, I'd like to see them back. Australia is an outstanding event that has a tradition and has generated fans but it's legacy is from CART's hey day. I just don't want to see races thrown around to the highest bidder simply to make a buck when we have a fan base here that needs to be solidified especially with the irl doing road courses. What's going to save Champcar are the casual "fans" who in some fashion find themselves at a race and ends up enjoying it and wants to attend another, while also seeking the series out on television. I feel there's an untapped wealth of potential fans right here.
IRL drill in place for this one
watch the first ten laps
watch the last ten
hope nobody busts their *** in the mean time.
:thumdown:
My routine is watch start, nap, watch end. :(
-Kevin
NoDoors NoDales
09-28-04, 02:27 PM
My routine is watch start, nap, watch end. :(
-Kevin
I've been to many Michigan and US 500's...even the first handford race and this Vegas race was such a sad site for me to sit in the stands and watch. It was like watching a slow handford race with ten less cars. They should have run the speedway wings...no question, would of been more exciting to watch these machines at full speed.
While Hanford racing was phony in its own right. But at least the downforce was low enough that even if you could easily draft by someone you had to have some talent to get it through the corner at the end of the straight. This was just a pedal-mash-a-thon.
The sad thing is that they had the speedway package just about perfect the last time they ran Fontana. The banking at LVMS is lower than Fontana so it seems like it should have worked there.
Lizzerd
09-28-04, 08:33 PM
I've been to many Michigan and US 500's...even the first handford race and this Vegas race was such a sad site for me to sit in the stands and watch. It was like watching a slow handford race with ten less cars. They should have run the speedway wings...no question, would of been more exciting to watch these machines at full speed.
Ditto to that, my new friend (Welcome!). I attended many MIS races from the mid '80's, including the US500 in 1996, and saw a lot of great racing there. You obviously remember the day when the cars would exit turn four and nearly brush the wall at exit? They didn't do that by choice. It was because they were on a knife's edge of control. I don't remember the cars hugging the inside line with the Hanford wing, either. Fontana is a near duplicate of that track. Watch the Slugbuckets hug the inside line this weekend, just like our guys at Las Vegas. Super downforce at a high speed oval is NOT racing!
oddlycalm
09-30-04, 05:37 AM
I'm really not a fan of ovals in general but for me, a chance to see the ChampCars and spend a few days in Vegas was a no-brainer. Pretty cool to watch the race with the mountains and the lights of vegas in the background.
I hear that. Hope they get the setup sorted out, because it has the potential to be a good race.
oc
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