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Rogue Leader
08-01-04, 03:32 PM
Sportscar races have larger crowds!

Audi_A4
08-01-04, 03:36 PM
Sportscar races have larger crowds!
:gomer: :saywhat: :eek:

Rogue Leader
08-01-04, 03:36 PM
but in other race news that shot of Tony Stewart after that wreck was priceless you can see him punching the dash! Hows a taste of your own medicine!

Steve99
08-01-04, 04:10 PM
Are we just picking random races for this thread?

Spicoli
08-01-04, 04:39 PM
Are we just picking random races for this thread?

OK. I'll be the Bolivian Bikini Inspector. :)

Sean O'Gorman
08-01-04, 05:08 PM
I don't get it. Why are you guys watching this crap? What, were you snowed in yesterday or sometihng? Just say NO to the IRL.


Once again, I'm left wondering why you guys are even watching this crap.


What, did you guys not notice the above suggestions the last two races?

nrc
08-01-04, 05:11 PM
What, did you guys not notice the above suggestions the last two races?

They're secretly CrackWagon addicts. :)

Sean O'Gorman
08-01-04, 05:16 PM
They're secretly CrackWagon addicts. :)

:laugh:

Yeah, I also heard those YFDS guys are really just hardcore IRL fans but they use a secret site to hide their fandom. ;)

cart7
08-01-04, 05:36 PM
You're all wrong, there appear to be 34 more people there than last year. Using Defenders earl growth formula, this is a meaningful increase and further proof the irl was needed. :gomer:

RobC71
08-01-04, 06:17 PM
Once again, I'm left wondering why you guys are even watching this crap.

Know thy enemy.

Rob C

DaveL
08-01-04, 07:21 PM
I caught a few minutes of that garbage today. I saw cars glued to the track not able to get out of each others way. It was Lights, only faster. Back when real race cars ran there (pre-handford) they ran at the absolute limits of their adhesion. One driver turned a faster lap than the other because he had the skill to get through a turn faster. The cars would enter the turns high, dive down to the apex and then it was all the driver could do to keep it off the wall as the car made its exit. The Crapwagon pilots just floor it and steer and keep the car in any groove they darn well please. If they want to run entire laps on the white line they can because the car has enough downforce relative to its horsepower that a blue whale would be stuck to the track.

Say what you will about NASCAR, and many here do, but at least when a car runs a lap at Michigan it is as fast as the mechanical and aero grip will allow and no faster. If the driver pushes a little too hard, he wrecks. There is no running around the white line lap after lap nonsense. Only the Crapwagons can do it and I can't think of a site more boring than watching a car drone around bogged down in drag from the downforce 20 mph or more slower than what its design will allow.

Spicoli
08-01-04, 07:32 PM
Yeah, I also heard those YFDS guys are really just hardcore IRL fans but they use a secret site to hide their fandom.

Yep. We're panhandling on our site to get people to donate to our paypal account, so we can trick out Natty's Fiero and go drifting in Tulsa over the RA weekend..... :gomer:

Yeah. That's what its all bout. :shakehead












:rofl:

Brickman
08-01-04, 07:55 PM
I caught a few minutes of that garbage today. I saw cars glued to the track not able to get out of each others way. It was Lights, only faster. Back when real race cars ran there (pre-handford) they ran at the absolute limits of their adhesion. One driver turned a faster lap than the other because he had the skill to get through a turn faster. The cars would enter the turns high, dive down to the apex and then it was all the driver could do to keep it off the wall as the car made its exit. The Crapwagon pilots just floor it and steer and keep the car in any groove they darn well please. If they want to run entire laps on the white line they can because the car has enough downforce relative to its horsepower that a blue whale would be stuck to the track.

Say what you will about NASCAR, and many here do, but at least when a car runs a lap at Michigan it is as fast as the mechanical and aero grip will allow and no faster. If the driver pushes a little too hard, he wrecks. There is no running around the white line lap after lap nonsense. Only the Crapwagons can do it and I can't think of a site more boring than watching a car drone around bogged down in drag from the downforce 20 mph or more slower than what its design will allow.

Can't argue with logic.

Ziggy
08-01-04, 09:03 PM
It was "eggciting" to say the least. Good post DaveL

Railbird
08-01-04, 09:18 PM
I have asked a few IRL fans why they didn't get all orgasmic over the Indy Lights at Mich/Fontana and their answer always involves something about speed yet the same folks sing the praises of the league when speed reduction regulations are placed on any type racing.

a vision thing I guess

Kiwifan
08-01-04, 09:36 PM
I haven't watched the race nor do I intend to although my ears did prick up when I heard the sports news say "Dixon came in third."

For me, three words in DaveL's excellent post summed it up for me, "had the skill." I believe it takes a fair amount of talent to get into a race car but what makes Champ Car standout for me is the lack of driver aids including that suck to the track at (nearly) all costs like the IRL. Have you seen the way a Champ Car slides out of a corner when the power goes on? (yeah, I know you have but...) Man I love that. I reckon that's where the skill comes in by driving the car, not piloting it.

I remember Scott saying how the Indy Lights were so easy to drive because they just stuck to the track. Now if someone could only get him away from the Koolaid stand and back into a Race Car I'd be happy. ;) :)

Take it easy guys,

Rusty.

Racewriter
08-01-04, 09:40 PM
I caught a few minutes of that garbage today. I saw cars glued to the track not able to get out of each others way. It was Lights, only faster. Back when real race cars ran there (pre-handford) they ran at the absolute limits of their adhesion. One driver turned a faster lap than the other because he had the skill to get through a turn faster. The cars would enter the turns high, dive down to the apex and then it was all the driver could do to keep it off the wall as the car made its exit. The Crapwagon pilots just floor it and steer and keep the car in any groove they darn well please. If they want to run entire laps on the white line they can because the car has enough downforce relative to its horsepower that a blue whale would be stuck to the track.

Say what you will about NASCAR, and many here do, but at least when a car runs a lap at Michigan it is as fast as the mechanical and aero grip will allow and no faster. If the driver pushes a little too hard, he wrecks. There is no running around the white line lap after lap nonsense. Only the Crapwagons can do it and I can't think of a site more boring than watching a car drone around bogged down in drag from the downforce 20 mph or more slower than what its design will allow.

Well said, Dave. This racefan didn't watch...

nrc
08-01-04, 10:04 PM
I have asked a few IRL fans why they didn't get all orgasmic over the Indy Lights at Mich/Fontana and their answer always involves something about speed yet the same folks sing the praises of the league when speed reduction regulations are placed on any type racing.

a vision thing I guess

Exactly. The Lights races at Michigan and Fontana were the blue print for the shows the IRL puts on. The difference is that after couple of years of "eggciting wheel to wheel axchun" the lights drivers toward the front recognized the futility of it and were smart enough to just bury their nose in the guy ahead's gearbox and follow them around.

Rogue Leader
08-01-04, 10:05 PM
I often watch NASCAR, and I'll flip over to IRL for the hell of it to see if any true stupidity happens... Plus to get a good laugh out of the fact that theres more empty stands than at a Tampa Bay Buckaneers game :D

Hot Rod Otis
08-01-04, 10:34 PM
I caught a few minutes of that garbage today. I saw cars glued to the track not able to get out of each others way. It was Lights, only faster. Back when real race cars ran there (pre-handford) they ran at the absolute limits of their adhesion. One driver turned a faster lap than the other because he had the skill to get through a turn faster. The cars would enter the turns high, dive down to the apex and then it was all the driver could do to keep it off the wall as the car made its exit. The Crapwagon pilots just floor it and steer and keep the car in any groove they darn well please. If they want to run entire laps on the white line they can because the car has enough downforce relative to its horsepower that a blue whale would be stuck to the track.


Yep.
Good post Dave.

I watched some of it at work today and all it was was a slightly faster Indy Lights race. I went to CART shows @ MIS from 93 till 99 and what I saw today was pale imitation of what an open-wheel race @ MIS used to be. :thumdown:

Lizzerd
08-01-04, 11:32 PM
I have asked a few IRL fans why they didn't get all orgasmic over the Indy Lights at Mich/Fontana and their answer always involves something about speed yet the same folks sing the praises of the league when speed reduction regulations are placed on any type racing.

a vision thing I guess

I've seen a couple of those Indy Lights races at MIS (back in the good old days). It looked like the first ten laps at Talledega for the entire race, and I don't think they pitted. I recall them doing faster race laps than qualifying laps, about 180MPH. I thought at the time how silly this was.

Now, an entire "major league" series (league) is designed to produce the same kind of racing, 40MPH faster. I still think how silly it is.

FCYTravis
08-02-04, 12:22 AM
This race fan was flagging real racing at Laguna Seca. No aero-glue for me, unless you count the club Atlantic guys :laugh:

JohnHKart
08-02-04, 07:47 AM
OK. I'll be the Bolivian Bikini Inspector. :)

Hmm....one of my lady friends is Bolivian....so I thought that was me. :rofl:

John

mueber
08-02-04, 08:27 AM
In order to give a booster shot to my wine and cheese credentials, I went to the Michigan Shakespeare Festival in Jackson Monday. (It was great by the way.)

I had some concern that driving east on US 12 to US 127 might be an issue because of race traffic. How silly of me.

Madmaxfan2
08-02-04, 08:56 AM
You might have had trouble on US 127 north of I-94 due to the Buick Open in Lansing. Otherwise, it should be no problem south of 94. :rofl:

4wheeldrifter
08-02-04, 09:46 AM
I had no idea that they were racing last weekend but happened upon it while surfing the local channels. Watched about 2 minutes and low and behold, in that two minute span, I caught some high comedy. During an in-car where 3 cars were side by side (imagine that) on the front stretch the car with the camera moved ahead of the other two (the others no doubt got scared the turn was approaching). Snot Goodyear's comment was something along the lines that the driver " Put his foot down and said 'bye bye' ". Yeah. Wonder why the engine note didn't change the whole way around then.

Pathetic as always. Restrictor plate racing without fenders, carbs, or fans.

2DB
08-02-04, 10:02 AM
Watching Michigan reminded me of the indoor races when Gary B. was winning everything with a really hooked up midget and not that much horsepower. Someone coined the term "Huggie Pole". Maybe someone out there may know who that coiner was, my memory sucks, but that race appeared to be a Fort Wayne Coliseum north show.


Kelvis

Andrew Longman
08-02-04, 12:33 PM
I watched a lot of it while waiting out the rain at the Jersey Shore. So glad I fought the traffic to spend the weekend there.

Sadly, there did seem to be more people there than the last year CART was there, but perhaps they packed them all into the tall T4 grandstand and frontstretch in view of the camera. And maybe few actually paid.

I was more amazed and shocked that they didn't throw the yellow with 2 to go when there was a wing sitting in the middle of the front stretch. And indeed the leaders ran over it as they took the white. I held my breath the last lap waiting for a tire to come apart.

I guess that's good racing.

I also got a grin when Paige said at one point that there had been two "debris" cautions and I thought to myself, "I don't remember two debris cautions". Just then the second yellow for "debris" DID actually fall.

One of though those things that make you go, Hmmmmmm. Did Paul get the script wrong?

nrc
08-02-04, 01:00 PM
Sadly, there did seem to be more people there than the last year CART was there, but perhaps they packed them all into the tall T4 grandstand and frontstretch in view of the camera.

They did. There was a thread over on CrackForum where someone posted screen caps all the way around. Of course there are no shots high enough to really see the size of the crowd in the main stands, but you can see that only the main stands were open.

Funny thing, some Lemming swore that it was that way for the last CART race until Railbird reminded the hime that the Lemming himself had sat in the turn one bleachers for that race. Talk about a selective memory.

Of course that makes it hard to judge before and after but the Lemmings are (predictably) claiming that there were more this year than last. Maybe, maybe not.

One thing CART definitely got wrong was the take it or leave it attitude they showed toward ovals after they went public. While that wasn't the only problem, or even the biggest one, "we don't care if we come here" isn't an attitude that brings people back year after year.

FRANKY
08-02-04, 01:05 PM
I watched a lot of it while waiting out the rain at the Jersey Shore. So glad I fought the traffic to spend the weekend there.

Sadly, there did seem to be more people there than the last year CART was there, but perhaps they packed them all into the tall T4 grandstand and frontstretch in view of the camera. And maybe few actually paid.

I was more amazed and shocked that they didn't throw the yellow with 2 to go when there was a wing sitting in the middle of the front stretch. And indeed the leaders ran over it as they took the white. I held my breath the last lap waiting for a tire to come apart.

I guess that's good racing.

I also got a grin when Paige said at one point that there had been two "debris" cautions and I thought to myself, "I don't remember two debris cautions". Just then the second yellow for "debris" DID actually fall.

One of though those things that make you go, Hmmmmmm. Did Paul get the script wrong?

I agree.

Taped the race while doing chores. The crowd was decent. The racing was OK but it just has to be more nerve racking then anything on these guys, I expect a stress related workman's comp claim some day.

I think the "momentum" racing is just BS. Better racing at Michigan than at Texas, but they need to get back to something more real world. I'm so tired of it all, Champ Car has spec engines, NASCAR has spec bodies, and the IRL has their quirky crapwagons. F-1 doesn't spec anything and Michael ruins the show, season, etc.

Racing simply just isn't what it use to be.
:(

DaveL
08-02-04, 01:10 PM
Big show of hands of those who remember the site of a Lola, Reynard, or March coming off of turn 2 with enough room for maybe of a piece of paper between the car and the wall, the driver jerk the wheel to the left to get some clearence from the wall, and then drift up the track to get the perfect entrance into 3-because a less than perfect entrance would mean getting splatterred against the turn 4 wall on exit.

All the while, the engines were turning as many RPM as the builder would dare and whether or not they would last for 500 miles was a major issue.

Yes, there was once real OW racing at Michigan.

nrc
08-02-04, 01:19 PM
Yep. There's a world of difference between "easy flat" and flat only if you've ample portions of skill and courage.

DaveL
08-02-04, 01:24 PM
Yep. There's a world of difference between "easy flat" and flat only if you've ample portions of skill and courage.

There's easy enough for IV and Carpenter flat, and there's flat for only very best who still have to white knuckle and hold their breath for the entire lap.

Andrew Longman
08-02-04, 01:34 PM
Big show of hands of those who remember the site of a Lola, Reynard, or March coming off of turn 2 with enough room for maybe of a piece of paper between the car and the wall, the driver jerk the wheel to the left to get some clearence from the wall, and then drift up the track to get the perfect entrance into 3-because a less than perfect entrance would mean getting splatterred against the turn 4 wall on exit.

All the while, the engines were turning as many RPM as the builder would dare and whether or not they would last for 500 miles was a major issue.

Yes, there was once real OW racing at Michigan.


Hand way up!

Perhaps my most striking memory of MIS was watching Tracy take pole in 2000. I was standing along the fence watching him come out of four. The car drifted all the way up to the wall, Paul working the wheel. He was the last to go out and I didn't need to wait for the PA announcer to say he took pole. My adrenal gland told me.

RacinM3
08-02-04, 04:04 PM
Once again, there was one of these races on TV I think, yet I had managed to find something else to do so as not to allow TiVo to report that I had watched. I highly recommend it!


Know thy enemy.

Rob C

What's to know? What isn't already known?

Spicoli
08-02-04, 04:20 PM
Once again, there was one of these races on TV I think, yet I had managed to find something else to do so as not to allow TiVo to report that I had watched. I highly recommend it!



What's to know? What isn't already known?

Dood.

i know you hate it, but I have the right to keep tabs on the enemy.

FRANKY
08-02-04, 04:32 PM
Big show of hands of those who remember the site of a Lola, Reynard, or March coming off of turn 2 with enough room for maybe of a piece of paper between the car and the wall, the driver jerk the wheel to the left to get some clearence from the wall, and then drift up the track to get the perfect entrance into 3-because a less than perfect entrance would mean getting splatterred against the turn 4 wall on exit.

All the while, the engines were turning as many RPM as the builder would dare and whether or not they would last for 500 miles was a major issue.

Yes, there was once real OW racing at Michigan.

I remember those days, cars running side by side lap after lap in a classic battle.

But those days were gone by 1999.

http://homepages.compuserve.de/sosandner/trips/detroit/indycarinbrooklyn.jpg

RacinM3
08-02-04, 08:57 PM
Dood.

i know you hate it, but I have the right to keep tabs on the enemy.

I know, it doesn't really bug me. Just trying to keep my OC buddies grounded. I wouldn't want to have to call an intervention. ;)

SurfaceUnits
08-02-04, 09:05 PM
Dashley with his fan club :cry:

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/irl/2004/mis/irl-2004-mis-tm-0222.jpg

nrc
08-02-04, 09:59 PM
Dood.

i know you hate it, but I have the right to keep tabs on the enemy.

So far it seems to be working really well.

Wonder what the IRL ratings and attendance would look like if nobody kept tabs on them.
:gomer:

Wingnut
08-03-04, 10:00 AM
Yep. We're panhandling on our site to get people to donate to our paypal account, so we can trick out Natty's Fiero and go drifting in Tulsa over the RA weekend..... :gomer:




Natty's got a Fiero?! How cool is THAT? ;)

Steve99
08-03-04, 11:54 AM
Wonder what the IRL ratings and attendance would look like if nobody kept tabs on them.


Can only affect the ratings if you have a Nielsen box, and I doubt anyone here has one.