Haas to IRL

[pfc_m_drake]

Those two guys with two votes sure wielded a lot of power. ;)

Well it wasn't an engine that could be done. The cost difference was supposedly great because of the different revs and features. And they said you couldn't get part way pregnant. Adopt it 100% or stick with the Ford.

But I agree. Keeping an eye on Indy kept two eyes off Champ Car.
JB is right on this one. There was a quote from Lee White (I can dig for it if you want...but I gotta tell you it's going to be a longshot) somewhere around the time of the initial vote for the CART 3.5L engine saying although there would be differences between the two packages, they were subtle enough that they shouldn't have a problem with it.

And after all - keep in mind that Cosworth whipped up their development mule and 3.5 NA design with the intention of running it in CART. They got it approved for IRL use, but it was only later that they were presented with the Chevrolet badging opportunity.

And it wasn't so much the two votes that Roger and Chip had against CART's small displacement turbo package as it was influence over their fellow owners. Remember that reunification negotiations with TG were on - it looked like it was going to happen - so the CART owners never got around to voting on the replacement package. The deadline for voting on the replacement package passed, TG nixed unification at the last minute, and the rest is history.

[pchall]

JB is right on this one. There was a quote from Lee White (I can dig for it if you want...but I gotta tell you it's going to be a longshot) somewhere around the time of the initial vote for the CART 3.5L engine saying although there would be differences between the two packages, they were subtle enough that they shouldn't have a problem with it.


I remember that stuff from Lee White, too. I suppose a google archive search would yield the endless 7G forum discussions of how Toyota was pimping the 3.5 for both series and claiming a road race worthy version was very doable. Maybe Bill McGuire can stop by and repeat all his ¥ inspired crapola about the perfect 3.5 NA V8 engine formula....

[Brickman]

JB is right on this one. There was a quote from Lee White (I can dig for it if you want...but I gotta tell you it's going to be a longshot) somewhere around the time of the initial vote for the CART 3.5L engine saying although there would be differences between the two packages, they were subtle enough that they shouldn't have a problem with it.

And after all - keep in mind that Cosworth whipped up their development mule and 3.5 NA design with the intention of running it in CART. They got it approved for IRL use, but it was only later that they were presented with the Chevrolet badging opportunity.

And it wasn't so much the two votes that Roger and Chip had against CART's small displacement turbo package as it was influence over their fellow owners. Remember that reunification negotiations with TG were on - it looked like it was going to happen - so the CART owners never got around to voting on the replacement package. The deadline for voting on the replacement package passed, TG nixed unification at the last minute, and the rest is history.

Indeed.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2002-02-07-sadler.htm

I didn't remember those White comments. I remember a discussion with CamKing expressing that the cost of making this happen was higher than being reported. CART had adopted the 3.5 October 4th 2001 only to have Pook save they day of accepting Ford's lease offer after first turning it down.

Of course we all recall this "As far as the engine and the compatibility with CART, that's a decision yet to be made." CART has not yet announced its engine specifications for 2003 but expects to do soon, spokesman Ron Richards said. To woo Toyota, the IRL did make some modifications. It agreed to add a second fuel injector nozzle per cylinder and will permit camshafts to be chain- or gear-driven." 4/4/01

[pfc_m_drake]

I'll definitely defer to Camking on costs...he would know more than I would. However, kudos to you for finding that link!

[4wheeldrifter]

It's reeeeeaaalllly starting to look like Tony won't be happy until he's flushed the whole deal down the terlit.

And the hammering keeps going, and going, and going, and go..... :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead

[oddlycalm]

I agree. Keeping an eye on Indy kept two eyes off Champ Car.

Exactly right, they were a lot more concerned with someone elses business than their own, and made all their decisions accordingly.

The other thing that these team owners forgot in their self-serving scramble to get back to Indy is to completely and totally ignore the fans.. As close as they get to acknowledging there are actually fans is when one of the EARL-come-lately peckerheads spews forth some pompous proclamation, clearly aimed at Champ Car fans, telling us how it's going to be, and that we better get with the program.

In the end, Haas, like those that have gone before him, must make the business assumption that if they all go to the EARL that eventually the fans must follow them. It's either that or they assume that one race in May with declining fortunes can continue to support the rest of a series forgettable events in front of mostly bare seats forever. Makes one wonder if even one of them has given any thought to what will happen if the fans don't eventually follow....?

Wonder if it will sink in after they all drop a fortune on new cars capable of running road courses only to show up to empty stands at the two or three road course event they manage to run? :shakehead:laugh:

Jonovision is right in one regard, albeit unintentionally. Ultimately it is a business. The fundamental flaw with both TG's vision and the team owners that have joined him is that they have forgotten who the ultimate customer is. In business it's considered to be a serious error in judgement to voluntarily part ways with a substantial percentage of one's most loyal paying customers, and yet every one of these business geniuses did exactly that with nary a 2nd thought.

Anyone that was at the CART town meetings last year has a real good feel for the level of resistance that exists to EARL road racing. It's one thing to have a new market with few existing fans, but it's quite another thing to attempt to enter a local race market where there exists a substantial number of hardcore hostile race fans.

oc

[Don Quixote]

oddlycalm, dead on. :thumbup:

[Cam]

Jonovision is right in one regard, albeit unintentionally. Ultimately it is a business. The fundamental flaw with both TG's vision and the team owners that have joined him is that they have forgotten who the ultimate customer is. In business it's considered to be a serious error in judgement to voluntarily part ways with a substantial percentage of one's most loyal paying customers, and yet every one of these business geniuses did exactly that with nary a 2nd thought.

Witness the SCO Group for the perfect example of abandoning a working product, alienating customers and picking fights with 600lb gorrillas! :rolleyes: