View Full Version : Race attendance
Has anybody heard a number? It certainly looked like a better crowd than the last few years.
Cart4Live2003
06-06-04, 06:26 PM
well in the main article on the champ car website I think it mentions for a weekend attendance of around 46-47K.. doesn't say the estimated race day attendence.. but on the race when I first watched it on RD on saturday night Rick or TK mentioned the attendence during the race of around 38K..
Insomniac
06-06-04, 06:47 PM
Interesting note from David Phillips.
Official attendance figures for the three evening Champ Car "weekend" at Milwaukee had 46,532 fans on hand, said to be a 29 percent increase over last year’s attendance. One local reporter, however, estimated tonight's attendance at around 20,000, although others had it around 38,000.
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/11408/
Hot Rod Otis
06-06-04, 07:48 PM
Good crowd. Let me guess, Wilke won't believe it.
Let me guess, Wilke won't believe it.
Got that right! :thumdown:
The dumba$$ is completely obsessed. :shakehead
Methanolandbrats
06-06-04, 11:13 PM
It was a great crowd of fired up fans of real racing. The IRL numbnuts are going to have to give away a lot of tickets to match it. :D
Jervis Tetch 1
06-06-04, 11:18 PM
Steve Ballard from the Indy Star estimated the crowd at 20,000.
Rogue Leader
06-06-04, 11:18 PM
It was a great crowd of fired up fans of real racing. The IRL numbnuts are going to have to give away a lot of tickets to match it. :D
LOL what is really funny is that Champ Cars customers PAID to get in AND there are more of them!
Champweb has this up:
Attendance on Saturday was announced as 38,000 for the Milwaukee Mile. Rather than speculate with our own views on attendance, we will take those numbers for what they are: the attendance.
Whatever the ground truth is it doesn't favorably compare to just about anywhere else. Last time around?
Champweb has this up:
Whatever the ground truth is it doesn't favorably compare to just about anywhere else. Last time around?
38K in a 44K facility is a pretty good crowd for a mile oval.
Rogue Leader
06-07-04, 07:43 AM
38K in a 44K facility is a pretty good crowd for a mile oval.
and as I said they PAID to get in....
and as I said they PAID to get in....
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2004/By800/20040605P_0011.jpg
Warlock!
06-07-04, 09:04 AM
I'd call it half to 2/3 full. Dunno how many seats are there, but the main grandstand looked 2/3 to 3/4 full, while there may have been 20 people total in the bleachers furthest from the S/F line.
Warlock!
Madmaxfan2
06-07-04, 09:29 AM
I would say that based on what is quoted in the press, the attendence was decent, especially for a predominately street & road course racing series, in which the vast majority paid to get in. Unlike an all oval open wheel racing series that comes to mind. Who sez that open wheel oval cannot sell? The difference is the level of sophiscation of the cars, drivers, and fans.
Definitely more there than last year.
jonovision_man
06-07-04, 09:34 AM
38K in a 44K facility is a pretty good crowd for a mile oval.
Kind of begs the question, why are we still doing mile ovals?
Street races usually double that number, especially the Aussie/Canadians ones.
The Mexican races are drawing 4-8 times that attendance.
I guess they don't have the set-up/tear down costs... but I don't think ticket prices are as high either. Also, it must take money to keep ovals in general on the calendar, they have to be taken into consideration in rule changes, safety, etc.
If they aren't well attended, why bother?
Methanolandbrats
06-07-04, 10:12 AM
"If they aren't well attended, why bother?"
Tradition, diversity and great racing. The crowd was really good this weekend and the event is on a strong rebound. Last year was thin and depressing. Their was a much more upbeat feel to this year.
jonovision_man
06-07-04, 12:18 PM
"If they aren't well attended, why bother?"
Tradition, diversity and great racing. The crowd was really good this weekend and the event is on a strong rebound. Last year was thin and depressing. Their was a much more upbeat feel to this year.
Attendance debate aside, it definately looked like a good crowd on TV.
I guess we can leave the oval debate to another thread, it's been discussed before... but if you're going that route, I just figure it should be at least 1/4, otherwise it's more novelty than true diversity. With the IRL doing the oval OW thing, not sure that 1/4 is attainable or desirable.
jono
I never liked three day numbers because it just unrealistically pumps up the attendance number. Thank God Nascar doesn't do the same. 46,532 from espn and the same from Speed for three days. Not a great race, not a bad race. Ryan won so I'm happy.
Kind of begs the question, why are we still doing mile ovals?
The mile oval is a traditional champcar venue. The Milwaukee Mile is the oldest motorsports venue in the US still in operation -- predating IMS -- and to abandon racing there would be an affront to the history of champcar racing.
Looks like a good infield crowd too...
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2004/By800/20040606P_0001.jpg
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2004/By800/20040605P_0030.jpg
Chitowncartfreak
06-07-04, 04:12 PM
If you can still turn a profit with a less-than-capacity crowd, then I say the event should stay.
jonovision_man
06-07-04, 04:49 PM
If you can still turn a profit with a less-than-capacity crowd, then I say the event should stay.
Agreed - but are they turning a profit? I just don't see how they could be making much on the race with 38,000 people attending. Not sure how much tix were.
racer2c
06-07-04, 05:00 PM
These are the type of threads that I thought would be history after the demise of CART. The wonderful thing about CCWS being a private company is that we don't and won't know all the nitty gritty details. If CCWS wants to differ costs in order to maintain they character, that's fine with me. I'm happy not knowing. It will be obvious when they cancel the event or re-up. Or maybe it won't be obvious and that's the goodness.
It was a departure from the 100K that we're used to seeing at a CCWS race, but I thought it was a strong crowd and no one ever mentions freebies when it comes to the CCWS. :thumbup:
jonovision_man
06-07-04, 06:13 PM
These are the type of threads that I thought would be history after the demise of CART. The wonderful thing about CCWS being a private company is that we don't and won't know all the nitty gritty details. If CCWS wants to differ costs in order to maintain they character, that's fine with me. I'm happy not knowing. It will be obvious when they cancel the event or re-up. Or maybe it won't be obvious and that's the goodness.
It was a departure from the 100K that we're used to seeing at a CCWS race, but I thought it was a strong crowd and no one ever mentions freebies when it comes to the CCWS. :thumbup:
OK, point taken.
TravelGal
06-07-04, 07:04 PM
and no one ever mentions freebies when it comes to the CCWS. :thumbup:
Ain't that the truth! :)
Another point I noticed is that attendance was reported to be UP 26% from last year. Now *that's* impressive! :thumbup:
Chitowncartfreak
06-07-04, 07:44 PM
Agreed - but are they turning a profit? I just don't see how they could be making much on the race with 38,000 people attending. Not sure how much tix were.
Hard to say - if your cost structure is right, it is possible to make a profit with a non-capacity crowd because it may cost less overall to service this smaller crowd. However, one wonders how much it costs to light the oval to have a night race...
jonovision_man
06-07-04, 08:04 PM
Hard to say - if your cost structure is right, it is possible to make a profit with a non-capacity crowd because it may cost less overall to service this smaller crowd. However, one wonders how much it costs to light the oval to have a night race...
Not sure, are the lights permanent? Couldn't cost anywhere near what lighting Cleveland cost last year! That was cool, but pricey.
Anyway, I'm going to let it go :) because it's true, whether it's profitable or not is no longer really a matter for fans, it's out of the public's eye and it's only PG/KK/GF's concern now. All we need to care about is if it's sustainable, and if it's good. :)
jono
This pretty much sums it up.
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=7858
Take that #er say by $20 and the $$$$ don't look all that bad.
$960,720 with a Race sponser, and thats at $20 I payed more then that.
Amanda B.'s Mom
06-08-04, 07:52 AM
38,000 people when seating capacity is 44,000 is very good.
Also, the Milwaukee Mile is the oldest US track that has been in continuoius operation. Opened in 1903 and has had races every year since. So it has Indy beat out on that one. :thumbup:
Chitowncartfreak
06-08-04, 09:58 AM
Not sure, are the lights permanent? Couldn't cost anywhere near what lighting Cleveland cost last year! That was cool, but pricey.
Anyway, I'm going to let it go :) because it's true, whether it's profitable or not is no longer really a matter for fans, it's out of the public's eye and it's only PG/KK/GF's concern now. All we need to care about is if it's sustainable, and if it's good. :)
jono
:thumbup: :thumbup:
I guess they don't have the set-up/tear down costs... says Jonovision ( sorry I just cannot work out the quote thingy yet !) regarding the Australian race ----errr......I would have thought that a permament oval with seats would have hardly any set up/tear down costs when any street circuit has the lot - They start building Surfers ages before the race, including shutting off part of the main highway, closing roads all over the place, building all the corporate/grandstands/seating, putting in all the electricals, toilets etc etc etc... and they start pulling it down about 10 mins after the race finishes... We sit in Unser stand and by middle of the night its gone -- thats so the highway is open first thing in the morning - You would think their costs would be out the window but then again, attendance is huge over the weekend so it offsets the costs..
Andrew Longman
06-10-04, 12:04 PM
I guess they don't have the set-up/tear down costs... says Jonovision ( sorry I just cannot work out the quote thingy yet !) regarding the Australian race ----errr......I would have thought that a permament oval with seats would have hardly any set up/tear down costs when any street circuit has the lot - They start building Surfers ages before the race, including shutting off part of the main highway, closing roads all over the place, building all the corporate/grandstands/seating, putting in all the electricals, toilets etc etc etc... and they start pulling it down about 10 mins after the race finishes... We sit in Unser stand and by middle of the night its gone -- thats so the highway is open first thing in the morning - You would think their costs would be out the window but then again, attendance is huge over the weekend so it offsets the costs..
It may seem expensive but it is a variable cost that is easily controlled.
Compared to permanent track which has hundreds of acres of property to maintain, pay taxes and utilities on, and provide security 365 days a year, a once a year build/tear down might look cheap.
Perhaps I have it wrong. For example I don't understand the economics of building a $400 million NFL football stadium and holding only 8 games a year in it over a 20 year lifespan. I guess its called government subsidy. But I also don't see how a track can afford to tie up that amount of land and hold only 2-3 races a year. MAybe that's why Nazareth is closing.
Steve99
06-10-04, 12:17 PM
Naz is closing because no one will pay to watch the crapwagons.
jonovision_man
06-10-04, 03:26 PM
I guess they don't have the set-up/tear down costs... says Jonovision ( sorry I just cannot work out the quote thingy yet !) regarding the Australian race ----errr......I would have thought that a permament oval with seats would have hardly any set up/tear down costs when any street circuit has the lot - They start building Surfers ages before the race, including shutting off part of the main highway, closing roads all over the place, building all the corporate/grandstands/seating, putting in all the electricals, toilets etc etc etc... and they start pulling it down about 10 mins after the race finishes... We sit in Unser stand and by middle of the night its gone -- thats so the highway is open first thing in the morning - You would think their costs would be out the window but then again, attendance is huge over the weekend so it offsets the costs..
Sorry, I should have been more clear... I meant the ovals probably have a cost advantage over street circuits since they don't have set up / tear down costs, not the other way around.
I don't know how much it costs, but the Toronto Molson Indy set-up started weeks ago for the race in July! It can't be cheap.
Andrew Longman
06-10-04, 04:28 PM
Naz is closing because no one will pay to watch the crapwagons.
Not enough came to see truck and Busch either.
The new track planned for south jersey is specifically designed with a road course included for club racing and schools as well as set up to cater to corporate outings and the like. They plan to keep it busy nearly every day of the year.
Naz had none of that. Maybe 1-2 rental days a year from Bertle Roos and Petty experience was it.
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2004/By800/20040605P_0011.jpg
Beautiful :)
Milwaukee is the oldest existing race car track in the world, not just the US (101).
That grandstand was not at all like it was when I was a kid. Wish I could have gotten out there.
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