Ideas

[Sean O'Gorman]

Yeah, but you're a know-it-all punk with a marketing course and a penchant for clapped-out Toyotas.

The assignment is still due.

PS: Everything on earth has "unknown factors"

Get busy.

Okay, you want to know what I think could be improved? Here are some starters:

What is the age group that Champ Car is going to be aimed at? The fanbase has been dwindling for a while now, and the middle-aged white guys aren't going to be able to support the sport of auto racing in general forever. You have to look to the younger crowd. I'd imagine NASCAR has the edge in that department right now if for no other reason than because of sheer popularity.

The problem is, how do you market "traditional" auto racing to my age group, when their idea of racing is this?

http://www.film.gen.tr/resim/filmler/2fast2furious/resim1.jpg

I know some of you are going to go out and say, "well we need to add car shows or drifting events or concerts to the event schedule" and think that'll solve the problem. It is my opinion that will do the opposite. If a spectator is going to be attracted to an event for the drifting expo, then the Champ Car race is just going to be a sideshow to them and will lilely have little effect on them.

Unfortunately, I don't know the solution to the age problem, as the demographic of the people I'm around in my real-life environment is similar to these forums. I hang out with only a handful of people my age, the rest of the people I'm around (co-workers, fellow autocrossers, etc.) are significantly older. I don't care for Gen Y-ers, most of them annoy the hell out of me, so you'll have to look for the answer elsewhere. ;)

Here is another thing to ponder. Where is the grassroots support for the sport? A soccer fan can sign up for a soccer team, a baseball fan can go to the batting cages, a basketball fan can go to the park and shoot hoops, etc. What about the race fan? Yes I know its unrealistic to expect that some kid in the inner city can watch a Champ Car race and then be in a Skip Barber car that weekend, but to the general public, there is absolutely no correlation between Champ Cars, and any other level of the sport.

This is where indoor karting comes into the picture. How many of those are in this country? The Red Bull Driver Search takes place at 58 different tracks, so there are at least that many. Why not work with them to promote Champ Cars, and in turn have Champ Car promote karting? If the fan gets even a small taste of what its like to be on the track, it will make them that much more excited to watch the racing.

A large part of NASCAR's success can be attributed to their strong grassroots racing. A fan can go to one of hundreds of local short tracks and see a good show, and follow drivers as they work their way up through late models, ASA, BGN, Nextel Cup, etc. An open wheel fan has to search like hell to find a local kart race or an entry level open wheel race, assuming the event is open to spectators, which it very well may not be. Even if it is, its so spectator unfriendly that its not even worth going to. I'm as hardcore as it gets when it comes to racing, but even I wouldn't bother to drive 5 miles to watch a kart race or Formula Dodge, etc. How does that help gain fans? Memo Gidley once said that if you got the fans into karting, they would find their favorite driver, and follow him into Formula Ford, and then into Toyota Atlantics, and finally into Champ Car.

My final suggestions revolve around the racing itself. I know this is going to get me flamed, but I haven't found the overwhelming majority of Champ Car races over the past few years very interesting. Yes there are exceptions, like St. Petes, Milwaukee, and Mid-Ohio from just last year alone. But most races are dogs, and I almost wonder why I even bother watching when I know its going to be a parade. I know I'm not alone in this, because the fan base was much bigger even after the split when the cars could pass more easily and there was a higher percentage of ovals and road courses. Does it have to do with the chassis/engine combo? The tracks? The size of the field? Probably a combination of all three. I can't even begin to comprehend what it would take to fix this problem, so I'll pretty much leave it alone, but I've expressed in the past that my preference is to see the Champ Cars have more of the characteristics of the Atlantics cars (as far as on track action is concerned) but still maintain a high degree of difficulty to drive. I'm also firmly in favor of the diversity of road courses, ovals, street races (in that level of importance), remaining a strictly North American-based series while rebuilding, and working to increase the field size to 26-34 or so.

So JT, there you have it. Happy now? ;)

[racer2c]

A+

:thumbup:

[Chaos]

i am a proponent of karting involvement.

I also agree with the lacklustre racing in the past few years. My best guess is that it has something to do with the cars themselves (the chassis and wing elements...though i could be wrong). The engines are probably not far off it terms of overall performance from several years back when the racing was superior.

[Railbird]

Excellent post Sean.

[Robstar]

Well written SeanO... :thumbup:

I still like to think of myself as in your age group - But I (obviously) don't know alot about marketing ChampCar, or any race series to the Yank public... Seems to me you are on the right track... :cool:

[RTKar]

Okay, you want to know what I think could be improved? Here are some starters:


http://www.film.gen.tr/resim/filmler/2fast2furious/resim1.jpg



My final suggestions revolve around the racing itself. I know this is going to get me flamed, but I haven't found the overwhelming majority of Champ Car races over the past few years very interesting. Yes there are exceptions, like St. Petes, Milwaukee, and Mid-Ohio from just last year alone. But most races are dogs, and I almost wonder why I even bother watching when I know its going to be a parade. I know I'm not alone in this, because the fan base was much bigger even after the split when the cars could pass more easily and there was a higher percentage of ovals and road courses. I'm also firmly in favor of the diversity of road courses, ovals, street races (in that level of importance), remaining a strictly North American-based series while rebuilding, and working to increase the field size to 26-34 or so.

So JT, there you have it. Happy now? ;)

You aren't alone....

[racer2c]

Hey Sean, you may agree on me about this...Champ Car on Xbox.

The Box has moved into P1 and there a few racing games that are household names amognst the millions upon millions of console gamers, such as Project Gotham Racing 1 and 2. The new TOCA game. Rally Sport Challenge etc. Of course Grand Turismo on the PS2 reigned for years.
I know a 19 yr old who knows of the IRL simply because they have an Xbox/PS2 game.

Get an A level developer like Ubisoft to do a major, Microsoft backed Champ Car racing game, BAM!, you got yourself a house hold name. Sounds simplistic yes, but I've seen it work.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Hey Sean, you may agree on me about this...Champ Car on Xbox.

The Box has moved into P1 and there a few racing games that are household names amognst the millions upon millions of console gamers, such as Project Gotham Racing 1 and 2. The new TOCA game. Rally Sport Challenge etc. Of course Grand Turismo on the PS2 reigned for years.
I know a 19 yr old who knows of the IRL simply because they have an Xbox/PS2 game.

Get an A level developer like Ubisoft to do a major, Microsoft backed Champ Car racing game, BAM!, you got yourself a house hold name. Sounds simplistic yes, but I've seen it work.

I forgot all about that. A well designed game will work wonders. Just look at what Gran Turismo did for interest in Japanese cars amongst American youth.

[Robstar]

I forgot all about that. A well designed game will work wonders. Just look at what Gran Turismo did for interest in Japanese cars amongst American youth.

So did I (forget)...

That is exactly what happened with the V8's over here...

Race Driver & now No. 2 - created such a V8 frenzy to the point where it is now the 2nd highest rating sport after AFL - instaed of being a petrolhead rednecky type sport...

Good Call r2c :thumbup:

[Ankf00]

the karting joint in Austin has nothing but nascar and Panther IRL stuff around, and a couple of red bull search posters...

at my farewell party, met 3 nascar fans who just got into it in the past year, and one indycar fan who just started watching in the past 2 years, they were all clamoring over buddy rice, "dude, who won the indy 500, who won the indy 500," all my friends were excited that day cuz they heard some big race was going on and i'm the native race-freak, had to set them straight

but anyways, getting the casual fan like that hooked, fans who are my age, that's the ticket, was disturbing to see IRL pick up a handful of casual fans my age just b/c they're on network tv every now and then :saywhat:

[Sean O'Gorman]

So did I (forget)...

That is exactly what happened with the V8's over here...

Race Driver & now No. 2 - created such a V8 frenzy to the point where it is now the 2nd highest rating sport after AFL - instaed of being a petrolhead rednecky type sport...

Good Call r2c :thumbup:

The Race Driver series are pretty good games, but they have some odd quirks. The game (along with Project Gotham 2) have huge cult followings on Xbox Live, I know there were 120,000+ Xbox Live members who have raced PGR2, which is a good number when you consider that its $5.99 a month.

I know that with Race Driver 2, the most popular classes are DTM and V8 Supercars, something that you can barely even watch in the U.S.

[Robstar]

but anyways, getting the casual fan like that hooked, fans who are my age, that's the ticket, was disturbing to see IRL pick up a handful of casual fans my age just b/c they're on network tv every now and then :saywhat:

Same as here dude... you'll be amazed at how many earl fans there are simply cause it's live on ESPN whereas CCWS is two days after the fact
(having said that, there's a lot of ChampCar fans thanks to Surfers :cool: )

[JT265]

Gotta give you an A SeanO. <you woulda got the "+", but I need to hold something back.> ;)

As far as getting the Gen (??) involved, absolutely. Take ChampCar to the kids. Old farts like me and a few of the guys here don't need to be sold. There are a ton of good ideas concerning grabbing the younger market that need to be implemented ASAP, and the XBox idea ranks right up there as one of the best. A natural tie-in is the indoor kart tracks, and there are more on the table as soon as the powers that be wake up to the reality. In all honesty, if Kid Rock and Eminem can become household names, I gotta think this product is marketable.

As far as the on track product, bring ChrisB in here for a bit, and listen to him. I like the odd oval fest myself, but like pet rocks, that star waned a while ago, IMO. A shorter wheelbase ChampCar, devoid of the damn tunnel blockers with possibly a narrower track is all that would be required right now to create great road/street racing. The "new" spec ChampCar could incorporate these features, but the fix is doable right now while the series rebuilds. Also, compared to Bernies megacranes strung out around each F1 circuit, I can think of a bunch of suppliers with medium and light duty cranes which could be equipped with 100' jibs that could lift a 1500lb. car off the track in no time, all but eliminating the need for full course yellows.

In sum, ya done good Sean, so you get a free pass to be a gomer from me.

<work fast tho', cause it expires at midnight.> :D

[Sean O'Gorman]

As far as the on track product, bring ChrisB in here for a bit, and listen to him. I like the odd oval fest myself, but like pet rocks, that star waned a while ago, IMO. A shorter wheelbase ChampCar, devoid of the damn tunnel blockers with possibly a narrower track is all that would be required right now to create great road/street racing. The "new" spec ChampCar could incorporate these features, but the fix is doable right now while the series rebuilds. Also, compared to Bernies megacranes strung out around each F1 circuit, I can think of a bunch of suppliers with medium and light duty cranes which could be equipped with 100' jibs that could lift a 1500lb. car off the track in no time, all but eliminating the need for full course yellows.

My main concern with street courses is, even if the racing could be considered entertaining (which isn't too unfeasible, I've seen plenty of good Atlantics race on street courses), it is still a track that is used only three days a year. Once the circus comes and goes, the local attention shifts away from racing and back to whatever. The trick is to find a way to work around that.

[nz_climber]

The Xbox game is a great idea :thumbup: - champcar has been missing a good game ever since indycar racing 2 (driven doesn't count!!)

but please release it on PS2 as well cause i don't want to buy a Xbox as well! :gomer:

[Clown]

Here is another thing to ponder. Where is the grassroots support for the sport? A soccer fan can sign up for a soccer team, a baseball fan can go to the batting cages, a basketball fan can go to the park and shoot hoops, etc. What about the race fan? Yes I know its unrealistic to expect that some kid in the inner city can watch a Champ Car race and then be in a Skip Barber car that weekend, but to the general public, there is absolutely no correlation between Champ Cars, and any other level of the sport.
I've been thinking about this recently.
The entry level for racing (kids) is in karting, problem is, who the **** can afford to spend 1-2 grand on a toy for their kids. I would of of killed for a kart when I were a lad, but there was no chance in hell I could convince my parental unit to drop a couple of grand on a prospective hobby.

So, why can't the FIA (or SCCA, CAMS in their respective countries) build and sell cheap karts. Frames could be produced very cheaply in China, chuck a $50 dollar motor on it, and sell it for $100/$200 bucks at Kmart/Walmart.
Then organise a boat load of regional/local series for kids to race on the weekend.

Ever wonder why there are so many Brazilians in international open wheel motorsport?
They have a good national karting program...... :)

[Rogue Leader]

I've been thinking about this recently.
The entry level for racing (kids) is in karting, problem is, who the **** can afford to spend 1-2 grand on a toy for their kids. I would of of killed for a kart when I were a lad, but there was no chance in hell I could convince my parental unit to drop a couple of grand on a prospective hobby.

So, why can't the FIA (or SCCA, CAMS in their respective countries) build and sell cheap karts. Frames could be produced very cheaply in China, chuck a $50 dollar motor on it, and sell it for $100/$200 bucks at Kmart/Walmart.
Then organise a boat load of regional/local series for kids to race on the weekend.

Ever wonder why there are so many Brazilians in international open wheel motorsport?
They have a good national karting program...... :)

This is the problem I run into as a Formula Dodge driver, To even run with these kids I have to put in twice as much track time just because theyve had a kart strapped to their ass since they were out of diapers. Ive raced everything I could for as long as I could, but my parents were poor until I was about 17 or so, so dumping $5000 on a kart was not in the budget (keeping the house was more important). At 23 I'm paying for it now anyway, as I get on the track and these kids bitch slap me, by the end of a lapping session I can just about keep up, but theres no replacement for track time. My racing buddies who have seen it (and have been racing a lot longer than me) say I'm doing the right things, just not enough of it, unfortunately NOW it costs that much more! Plus at 23 I'm almost over the hill anyway. If by some chance I can get a sponsor I'll have to spend a season testing just to be competitive, and IF I hope to go any further I have to basically kick everyones ass my first season, or then I'm WAY over the hill...

I agree about the national karting program, If I was a great football player I would have a free ride paid for by a college or the US Government, instead I have to basically sell my soul to satan to get the money for 1 season of racing....

[skidmarks]

I know what you're saying RL, I was 18 when I got a very outdated G Prod car, but my stepdad said he would kick in as part owner/crew and we would go racing. He died that year. It took me three years and all the cash I had to get the car ready, but by then I was out of money. I had wild dreams that I could get discovered and go on to IMSA, CART, or F1! I had no idea how far behind I was already.

My son is three, I plan to have him in a kart at five. I will make every attempt to let him be the racer, and force him to fufill my dreams. I don't think I will have the cash to buy him a champcar ride at 17 :rolleyes: , or even at 30, but I want him to have a shot at doing whatever he wants. The only problem is his twin sister, I may have to run a two kart team! :)

[mueber]

I think Sean basically gets it. NASCAR markets itself to the suburbs as the safe, easy, white bread, Republican alternative to all those scary ethnic minority types that populate football, baseball and basketball.

There has to be a backlash. ChampCar should market itself directly to the young, through the media THEY use, as the scary, demanding, diverse alternative to NASCAR. It wouldn’t hurt to essentially say, “Rebel against your NASCAR dad, go to a real race.”

[ChrisB]

Thanks JT265... I'm not against ovals/diversty per se, I just don't see it as worth it any longer, and a better roadrace car could come about if it didn't have to be built for ovals. (particularly the lighter weight and shorter wheelbase)

Some other ideas:

Gasoline - do-able without ovals, it would also allow smaller fuel tanks because gas has more btu's per gallon than alky.

Rootes superchargers on a small I4 or V6 - instead of exhaust-driven turbos are apparently more popular with the "tuner crowd" because if ease of installation. Belt-driven blowers also have better low-end torque appropriate for roadracing. Noise? then use...

High flow tuned mufflers - keep the db's down to about what the turbos woulda been... and they can be tuned to sound almost like whatever you want.

Less wing (no front wing?) and more undertray grip and wider tires... use things that are less susepatable to air disturbances whenever getting close behind another car to make a pass and not lose grip. Fatter tires also look cooler.

Standing starts - they're much more exciting and orderly. And they weed out w@nkers very well!

Fixed race length of 200 miles, and fixed/mandatory fuel stops at milemarkers 67 and 134.

Here's also an idea which might be considered heresy... dump the name "Champcar" and change it to "Formula A" to signify that it's an American answer to F1. Apparently "Formula A" was the name of the SCCA's premier formula class in the 60's before they renamed it F5000 according to this page. (http://www.oldracingcars.com/F5000/Default.htm)

[DjDrOmusic]

Sunday at the car show there were around 50 of the import tuners showing their cars, a group of them heard me mention the Champcar race at Milwaukee and how it could be seen on Spike TV. They came over to me and for the next 15 minutes or so we were having a very engaging conversation about what Champcar is, the cars that are used, the variety of tracks, etc. and they were genuinely interested to the point of writing down the times for the race and Dangerous Curves. The thing that surprised me the most was that one of them, who just happened to be a young lady, knew who Bronte was, and that piqued her interest. There are many different ways to promote Champcar, but I do agree with Sean that the future is with the Fast and Furious crowd!