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FRANKY
05-10-04, 10:46 PM
What did he win?

He made it more about himself than anything else, thus diverting the topic.

not that it's a tactic I haven't used over the years

But here's the response of "debate fan".


1-800-Wahhhh... I mean Mayyyyyyyy. ;)

Here's a another one 25 years ago to yip about.

"In 1979 CART held its first race in Phoenix and it was sanctioned by the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA). USAC was still running its National Championship separate from CART’s. When the time came around to submit entries for the Indianapolis 500(still sanctioned by USAC) several CART teams tried to enter. USAC rejected the entries because the members of CART were not in good standing with USAC over the separation. CART took USAC and IMS to court over the matter and a judge promptly ordered the entries to be accepted. In 1979, CART acquired sponsorship of PPG and renamed the series “PPG Indy Car World Series”. Between 1979 and 1981, several tracks previously associated with USAC jumped ship and went to CART. By 1982 the Indy 500 was the only USAC sanctioned Champ car/Indy race, essentially ending the USAC National Championship. Throughout the 80’s many road and street courses were added to CART’s schedule."

Sadly racing isn't always about racing, it's equally about piss poor business decisions. Narrow minded decisions yield narrow minded results. Whether decision by committee or decision by one the consequences can be equally damaging. So is life...

Looks like he didn't disagree with the original post. Did the ol winky thing he's known for because accurately the post would only show up in May.

Then I underlined where he actually agreed with original post, after pointing out another potential Month of May post about the first great USAC VS CART lawsuit.

Brickman
05-10-04, 11:13 PM
Brickman is wrong on two points. Well, he's wrong on a lot of points, but these are the two I'll talk about here. :)

First, he is confusing CART's business model from the business model of the money grubbing jackels who stabbed CART and all of its fans in the back. They are the ones who became addicted to the manufacturer money. Certainly CART became a victim of that because they were dependent on the teams and their real business model (no less flawed) of big sanction fees and a dream TV contract fell throught without manufacturer sponserships to prop it up.

But where his argument is really seriously at odds with reality is claiming that the IRL was turning anything anything around prior to turning to manufacturers for sponsorship money. Ratings, attendance, car counts and sponsorship were all well into a steady downard spiral before Toyota took their money and provided life support for the sorry mess Tony calls a series.

The IRL is not "New CART" as some have said. It is everything that was bad about CART with none of the things that made it so great.

First of all I thought the "money grubbing jackels" were the car owners. It wasn't their business model TG adopted. So I respectfully think you are wrong.

Secondly It was the adopted business model that TG is embracing that CART had also fallen "victim" of. The owners just followed the cash. If the manufacturers had stayed in CART there would have only been a replacement of teams, because their welfare dollars would have attracted new teams to replace the famous "dead wood" teams. Personally I don't think they would have left.

Lastly I think the 500 and mood surrounding the 500 was clawing its way back. Many articles were written with positives about Indy getting back on track.

Was it back to the 1995 level? No not at all... The IRL is not "New CART", but they resemble in ownership, drivers, moronic selling out to manufacturers, the former series, it's more like CART II. "I am at a CART Race... look around you son!" -Robin Miller

nrc
05-10-04, 11:29 PM
Lastly I think the 500 and mood surrounding the 500 was clawing its way back. Many articles were written with positives about Indy getting back on track.

I've pointed out already that you can't support that argument based on any measureable standard. Attendance, sponsorship, car count, TV ratings - all flat or steadily fading. So now you're basing it on "the mood" - some nebulous figment of your imagination that can't be proven or disproven. Like Railbird said, it's like nailing jello to a post.

Brickman
05-11-04, 12:53 AM
I've pointed out already that you can't support that argument based on any measureable standard. Attendance, sponsorship, car count, TV ratings - all flat or steadily fading. So now you're basing it on "the mood" - some nebulous figment of your imagination that can't be proven or disproven. Like Railbird said, it's like nailing jello to a post.

A figment of my imagination, a figment of theirs. Thanks mostly in part to CART. I agree that basing ones opinion on ones gut feelings isn't science, or anything close. Right or wrong that's my opinion, that an interest had returned.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/irl/indy500/2003-05-01-500-glory_x.htm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/motorsports/2000/indy500/news/2000/05/27/500_newlife/

http://www.indystar.com/articles/8/045977-1968-137.html

mapguy
05-11-04, 05:38 AM
Has anyone seen the Boss lately?