View Full Version : What's the "end game"?
Spicoli
03-15-04, 10:11 AM
I'm interested in knowqing what everyone thinks the "end game" is. I mean, when will TG stop his insanity.
Is it LBGP being cancelled? Is it him not getting 33 at Indy? When will this all end. Seriously, I thought it was done several times before, but he and his evil backers are just stopping at nothing right now. I mean, why are they throwing so much money at a series that has NO fans, No credibility, No good leadership. Why are they hell bent on trying to kill a series that MOST OW fans have loved for years? :confused:
Why not just go back to Champ if that's the kind of racing they want?
Good question. You should ask it to Honda and Toyota. They hold the keys to the league as well as what TG does. They are the ones that could end this game now, if they choose.
We'll remember that they stabbed us in the back. Then aided TG in furthering the demise of ChampCar.
Same goes for the sponsors of the defective (pun intended) teams.
Control of all OW racing on this continent with Indy as it's crown jewel. The same as it's always been since he ascended to the IMS throne.
Control of all OW racing on this continent with Indy as it's crown jewel. The same as it's always been since he ascended to the IMS throne.
When I was growing up I remember older folks referring to the toilet as a throne. Seems to fit here.
racer2c
03-15-04, 10:27 AM
That's a very good point Spicoli. The demise of ChampCar is not the end of Tony's tantrum. It's not like we'll have ChampCar type racing with Tony as the leader. The road/street courses they might include are just an appeasement to the jumpers. There have been two sides in US open wheel racing going back to the '60's.
ChampCar had evolved to be the best openwheel series in the world and even if you attended a hick track like Nazareth, you still felt that international flavor. It was exciting. It made you feel like you were at something very important and that the eyes of the world were watching.
The IRL is like a reverse Midas. Everything they touch turns to Gomer. It's funny in a sad way to see the wasted talent in the IRL. I'm sure the promises of greatness floating through the IL paddock is keeping some in place, but I can't help but wonder if some of the old ChampCar drivers and teams are asking themselves, "This is it?"
You can take the Gomer out of Indy, but you can't take Indy out of the Gomer. L_g, I'd love to hear your take. (sends up the l_g beacon).
Mike Kellner
03-15-04, 11:10 AM
The Hulman Empire could win, or at least destroy ChampCar. The questions really is, to what end? The only people left watching either series are the hard core believers. If Tony were to accomplish his goal, what makes him or Honda & Toyota think they will get the hard core ChampCar fans to just switch series? I won't. I don't think too many here will. Who else is left? The casual fans now all belong to NASCAR.
I suspect the road racing crowd will just watch F1 on TV. That is what I plan. If ChampCar fails, that's where I get off the bus. I will never attend a USGP at Indy. At this point, I have even refused to watch it on TV. I suspect it will move anyway. Once Bernie thinks US open wheel is sufficently ruined, he will pull Tony's GP for lack of parking, or some other complaint, although the real cause will be Long Beach is open again.
I guess what I don't get is this, what exactly does Tony think he is accomplishing? Has it ever sunk in on him, or the morons who support him, that he has ruined the sport he was supposedly trying to save?
mk
tx-racefan
03-15-04, 11:30 AM
When I was growing up I remember older folks referring to the toilet as a throne. Seems to fit here.
Reminds me of the first IRL 500. Me and Ziggy were in his garage and there was an old toilet stacked away in the corner; when suddenly we had a brainstorm. We carried it out and sat it in front of a big tree in the front yard and put a big sign on top of it that read: IRL VICTORY PODIUM (I claim that line, btw). Later, some ESPN people saw it and tried to get an interview with Ziggy on the porch. To say Ziggy was not receptive to their overture is an understatement.
Spicoli
03-15-04, 12:12 PM
The Hulman Empire could win, or at least destroy ChampCar. The questions really is, to what end? The only people left watching either series are the hard core believers. If Tony were to accomplish his goal, what makes him or Honda & Toyota think they will get the hard core ChampCar fans to just switch series? I won't. I don't think too many here will. Who else is left? The casual fans now all belong to NASCAR.
Has it ever sunk in on him, or the morons who support him, that he has ruined the sport he was supposedly trying to save?
mk
exactly. TG HAS TO KNOW that this is the case. Nobody is watching, and all the free Malrboro tickets, bobbleheads, and Melloncampy concerts won't convert or entice anyone. 10 years later and its worse than its ever been. The teams can't sell a sponsorship without a Newman or a personal connection; most are held hostage by the almighty Yen; TV is pathetic, crowds are worse, the dields are shorter than ever, and I'll bet you know one outside of the racing world can name one winner of the I500 over the last 10 years.
"Winning"????
Maybe I should email Tony and ask him?
I just call it sad.
exactly. TG HAS TO KNOW that this is the case. Nobody is watching, and all the free Malrboro tickets, bobbleheads, and Melloncampy concerts won't convert or entice anyone. 10 years later and its worse than its ever been. The teams can't sell a sponsorship without a Newman or a personal connection; most are held hostage by the almighty Yen; TV is pathetic, crowds are worse, the dields are shorter than ever, and I'll bet you know one outside of the racing world can name one winner of the I500 over the last 10 years.
"Winning"????
Maybe I should email Tony and ask him?
I just call it sad.
To what extent will Tony George go to drive in the last nail? Why is he driving in nails in the first place? Business.
It's the same as PG, KK, GF. Did they create OWRS to carry on a tradition? Of course not. Did they do what they are doing for the love of the sport? Oh please.
It's the same answer, business.
They would love to grow a series, control all of open wheel, drive the others from the marketplace. If there were parity like the ABA and NBA then a merge would have happened, and then joint ownership would have occured.
But there was never parity, TG always had Indy.
The amazing thing I find is that all the stalwart owners simply aren't. Ganassi, Penske, Patrick, Haas, Green, it's a hell of a list. They are tired of the war and want to move on and race.
lone_groover
03-15-04, 12:39 PM
I'm in no mood, Franky. You stupid jerk.
:thumdown:
racer2c
03-15-04, 12:43 PM
To what extent will Tony George go to drive in the last nail? Why is he driving in nails in the first place? Business.
It's the same as PG, KK, GF. Did they create OWRS to carry on a tradition? Of course not. Did they do what they are doing for the love of the sport? Oh please.
It's the same answer, business.
They would love to grow a series, control all of open wheel, drive the others from the marketplace. If there were parity like the ABA and NBA then a merge would have happened, and then joint ownership would have occured.
But there was never parity, TG always had Indy.
The amazing thing I find is that all the stalwart owners simply aren't. Ganassi, Penske, Patrick, Haas, Green, it's a hell of a list. They are tired of the war and want to move on and race.
I disagree. They're putting up money from their own pockets to see this once supreme series continue. If it was all about business decisions, there wouldn't be a ChampCar. It wouldn't have gotten past '02.
I also do not believe that the former CART owners moved on for the reasons of tiring from the split. They were paid to go. They were/are the ones in it for the 'business'.
Mike Kellner
03-15-04, 12:43 PM
The amazing thing I find is that all the stalwart owners simply aren't. Ganassi, Penske, Patrick, Haas, Green, it's a hell of a list. They are tired of the war and want to move on and race.
They have moved on, they are racing, and nobody is watching. OWRS is trying to save a sport they love from a moron who has brought ruination. The IRL-C^RT team owners are just going where the welfare checks from H&T lead them. My attitude is screw the lot of them. They will get nothing but snake's venom from me. If OWRS does not manage to save racing from Tony, it's over for me.
mk
The amazing thing I find is that all the stalwart owners simply aren't. Ganassi, Penske, Patrick, Haas, Green, it's a hell of a list. They are tired of the war and want to move on and race.
They have moved on, they are racing, and nobody is watching. OWRS is trying to save a sport they love from a moron who has brought ruination. The IRL-C^RT team owners are just going where the welfare checks from H&T lead them. My attitude is screw the lot of them. They will get nothing but snake's venom from me. If OWRS does not manage to save racing from Tony, it's over for me.
mk
I totally agree with you Kellner, nobody is watching, nobody is going to the races. The old guard has moved on. But so have the fans. But I don't agree with racer2c, I think it's more than continuing on a tradition. People don't go buy ice cream trucks to carry on the tradition of late afternoons and running to the street with a dime. But business, although it sucks is what and why things happen. Sorry lone_groover didn't realize I was touching a nerve, just pointing out the obvious, just hard to address the subject what's TG's end game when in a way it's obvious.
Spicoli
03-15-04, 01:16 PM
I totally agree with you Kellner, nobody is watching, nobody is going to the races. The old guard has moved on. But so have the fans. But I don't agree with racer2c, I think it's more than continuing on a tradition. People don't go buy ice cream trucks to carry on the tradition of late afternoons and running to the street with a dime. But business, although it sucks is what and why things happen. Sorry lone_groover didn't realize I was touching a nerve, just pointing out the obvious, just hard to address the subject what's TG's end game when in a way it's obvious.
HUH?
You and I have never crossed paths, but its safe to say I think you are nuts. TG has held everyone hostage, and changed his "tune", "vision", "reasons for creating the IRL" so many times its not funny. And those jerks Penske, Gan******* and Mikey will pimp out their mamas for a quick $20.
Exactly what "Tradition" has TG carried on? 100k on pole day? 50 car/driver combos looking to duel it out for the 33 spots? Preservation of the dream for all the American racers (that ll look to Daytona as the motherlode now)? ..........Dood. WTF are you on?
If the end game was to preserve the Indy500, he missed that boat the last 37 times it passed right by 16th & Georgetown.
Idiotgrandson is out for blood now. Sad.
I just want to know when he's gonna realize he hasn't "won" anything.
racer2c
03-15-04, 01:20 PM
I totally agree with you Kellner, nobody is watching, nobody is going to the races. The old guard has moved on. But so have the fans. But I don't agree with racer2c, I think it's more than continuing on a tradition. People don't go buy ice cream trucks to carry on the tradition of late afternoons and running to the street with a dime. But business, although it sucks is what and why things happen. Sorry lone_groover didn't realize I was touching a nerve, just pointing out the obvious, just hard to address the subject what's TG's end game when in a way it's obvious.
Ask Newman if he's in ChampCars for business. Ask Forsyth, who has dumped untold millions of his own fortune, if he's in ChampCar for business. Wake up.
So Tony is only killing ChampCar for business purposes! LOL! Here's a little lesson in business...the goal is to make money, not waste your granddads fortune on a power trip. In the businessof sport, the goal is to grow a fan base, but Tony seems much more adept in losing his. Tony has it all backward, just like you.
Your ice cream truck analogy is retarded.
HUH?
You and I have never crossed paths, but its safe to say I think you are nuts. TG has held everyone hostage, and changed his "tune", "vision", "reasons for creating the IRL" so many times its not funny. And those jerks Penske, Gan******* and Mikey will pimp out their mamas for a quick $20.
Exactly what "Tradition" has TG carried on? 100k on pole day? 50 car/driver combos looking to duel it out for the 33 spots? Preservation of the dream for all the American racers (that ll look to Daytona as the motherlode now)? ..........Dood. WTF are you on?
If the end game was to preserve the Indy500, he missed that boat the last 37 times it passed right by 16th & Georgetown.
Idiotgrandson is out for blood now. Sad.
I just want to know when he's gonna realize he hasn't "won" anything.
I think there is a misunderstanding.
The end game was not to preserve. It was to kill CART. Business. I never said he was right, he flushed open wheel down the toilet. It reminds me of a cartoon where a lone soldier stands among ruins and declares "We Won!" Should do a google search and find it.
Ask Newman if he's in ChampCars for business.
I have a conference call at the bottom of the hour and I'll get back. Newman is the exception, his is the only Salsa and Italiain dressing I buy for good reason. Gerry? Ask Patrick what he thinks.
I'm predicting TG will be actively and agressively pursuing quite a few of the roads and streets CCWS currently runs on. More than they have the past year. MO, LB, RA, 2 or 3 of the Canadian races, Laguna, etc. He'll undercut OWRS at every chance to take away a race at every opportunity. He'll start with 3 or 4 road and streets under the excuse that he never said there would never be roads or streets (he didn't BTW). But it won't stop there, he'll grab up to 7 or more till CCWS runs out of North American tracks interested in them which then forces CCWS off-shore and into Bernies territory. With too many races on the schedule , the earl will start dropping underperforming ovals.
Tg will justify this the same way he's justifying the Indy traditions he seems so easy to toss out. Economics. Either way, it's all to keep T & H and the road racing ex-Cart teams happy. His deal is a house of cards though, completely dependant on the whims of T & H. In the end, the few ovals only short track fans will be gone, no self respecting Cart fan will watch the league and Indy will begin reconstructing seating areas needing replacement with fewer seats since they can no longer even come close to filling the joint on Memorial Day. By then, the Network that carries the 500 will be pushing TG and Nascar to switch racedays with the BY400.
But at least Tony will be in charge. :gomer:
Hardpoint
03-15-04, 02:08 PM
His deal is a house of cards though, completely dependant on the whims of T & H.
....And we all know what happens when you cater to those parasites.
It will end when Boy George alienates the owners as Tony Hulman did 25 years ago or the Gomerville 500 becomes irrelevant. If neither of those things happen, he’s in control of what is left of open wheel for the rest of his life. The best chance OWRS has to "beat" him, that is to make themselves into a major open wheel series, is to manage the sereis well and spend money until they buy the same "loyalty" that Boy George has, probably form European teams, drivers and manufacturers who to date have not been involved. I don't think those guys got rich doing things like that.
A quick search from 1996.
Ganassi
Hall
Walker
Patrick
Newman/Haas
Rahal
Forsythe
Penske
Tasman
Hogan
PacWest
Payton/Coyne
Scandia/Simon
Bettenhausen
Galles
Arciero/Wells
All American Racers
Not hard to tell who went where. Most retired, a few defected, business interests decided the majoritys decision. Newman stands alone in my book as the most loyal and talk is that they want him as a guest at the 500.
racer2c
03-15-04, 02:36 PM
A quick search from 1996.
Ganassi
Hall
Walker
Patrick
Newman/Haas
Rahal
Forsythe
Penske
Tasman
Hogan
PacWest
Payton/Coyne
Scandia/Simon
Bettenhausen
Galles
Arciero/Wells
All American Racers
Not hard to tell who went where. Most retired, a few defected, business interests decided the majoritys decision. Newman stands alone in my book as the most loyal and talk is that they want him as a guest at the 500.
Now you are grouping retired, defected and 'business decisions' from CART/ChampCar teams when your original point was about how Tony's intentions are ones based strictly on 'business'. You're all over the map. I agree with Spicoli, put the pipe down.
Spicoli
03-15-04, 02:39 PM
I agree with Spicoli, put the pipe down.
Or better yet, share. :D
racer2c
03-15-04, 02:48 PM
Or better yet, share. :D
:thumbup: :D
End game: Honda and Toyota in NASCAR. ISC owns the Brickyard.
TG back to doing blow full time.
racer2c
03-15-04, 03:00 PM
End game: Honda and Toyota in NASCAR. ISC owns the Brickyard.
TG back to doing blow full time.
And thus we have the end game. Well said FTG.
Mike Kellner
03-15-04, 04:09 PM
You forgot, the Indy 500 becomes a NASCAR race, and the Brickyard is NASCAR on the road course, replacing the USGP which moved to Long Beach.
Madmaxfan2
03-15-04, 04:12 PM
I just sick and tired of this whole mess. Apparently, when it came down the brass tacks, Indy is all that matters. Modern racing is losing its appeal to me. It is not about who is the smartest, most talented, best rivers, best egnineering, best equipement, new lap records, etc, it's about the "show".
I am an automotive D&R engineer who works for Ford, and this field has been my life interest. However, modern auto racing has less to do with the product than ever before. NASCAR, that's ajoke. IRL with engines that run full throttle all the time, some drivability challenge plus great testing ground for brakes :shakehead , and OWRS, two year old chassis and sealed engines IF it gets off the ground. Plus the drivers are not the epic heroes of yesteryear. Call me stuck in the past, I don't care, it just is not fun anymore.
I just want to know when he's gonna realize he hasn't "won" anything.
There will come a day when Honda will show him the short blade. Toyota will not be there since they have no honor.
Simple answer Spa-co-lee. ;)
Mumbles will realize that he hasn't "won" anything the day that the rest of us find ourselves in riveting conversation with a dead elm stump.
The man exudes the class, style and intelligence of a turnip sandwich on Wonder bread.
The man exudes the class, style and intelligence of a turnip sandwich on Wonder bread.
:rofl: Classic! :rofl:
The man exudes the class, style and intelligence of a turnip sandwich on Wonder bread.
:D :thumbup: Now that's a quotable quote!!
Spicoli
03-15-04, 07:53 PM
End game: Honda and Toyota in NASCAR. ISC owns the Brickyard.
TG back to doing blow full time.
that or FTG's Heli going down on the ugly side.
Sadly, I think you are correct. I mean, when he's done killing off a bankrupt CART run by a guy with little racing expreience, I guess he'll go after Bernie. :shakehead
Insomniac
03-15-04, 08:50 PM
Good question. You should ask it to Honda and Toyota. They hold the keys to the league as well as what TG does. They are the ones that could end this game now, if they choose.
We'll remember that they stabbed us in the back. Then aided TG in furthering the demise of ChampCar.
Same goes for the sponsors of the defective (pun intended) teams.
CART did help them go there. I don't thing Honda and Toyota control this. The IRL has already shown they can keep on going. They can run their series with the money from NASCAR. They can lower costs and with the sacred Indy, people will race there. ChampCar doesn't have that kind of money so they need all the help they can get. I think in the short term, the IRL could be destroyed, but as long as TG insists (and can) on having his own series, there is no end.
Insomniac
03-15-04, 08:53 PM
I disagree. They're putting up money from their own pockets to see this once supreme series continue. If it was all about business decisions, there wouldn't be a ChampCar. It wouldn't have gotten past '02.
I also do not believe that the former CART owners moved on for the reasons of tiring from the split. They were paid to go. They were/are the ones in it for the 'business'.
They may be putting up there own money, but don't think for one second they don't think they can make money. If they believed it was a lost cause, they never would've bothered. Why wouldn't they get past '02? They had almost $100M in the bank to continue.
Insomniac
03-15-04, 08:57 PM
The amazing thing I find is that all the stalwart owners simply aren't. Ganassi, Penske, Patrick, Haas, Green, it's a hell of a list. They are tired of the war and want to move on and race.
Tired of the war? Why, because now that they are over there they talk about merging? For whatever reason they jumped ship, but they only became tired of the war after or right before they went over there. If any of them really cared, there would be one series by now. The two sides would've settled and that would be that.
racer2c
03-15-04, 09:35 PM
They may be putting up there own money, but don't think for one second they don't think they can make money. If they believed it was a lost cause, they never would've bothered. Why wouldn't they get past '02? They had almost $100M in the bank to continue.
CART never made money from racing outside going public. The Three Amigos made a bunch of talk about ChampCars making money in five years or so. That means they were/are hoping a big sponsor would/will step up and pay them. I was looking for that sponsor at LB. Didn't see one. CART was formed in a different economic era, where the health of the sport didn't revolve around dependencies of mega corporation generosity. It's a shame that that is what it takes to go racing these days. I'll never buy a Toyota or a Honda I guarantee you that.
You better believe they had their doubts. There was no guarantee that Otte would rule in their favor or that they could get engines, teams, drivers, sponsors, tires etc. It was a huge gamble that still is playing out.
CART spent every dime on the '03 season. That's why I said '02.
racer2c
03-15-04, 09:36 PM
Tired of the war? Why, because now that they are over there they talk about merging? For whatever reason they jumped ship, but they only became tired of the war after or right before they went over there. If any of them really cared, there would be one series by now. The two sides would've settled and that would be that.
Finally your true colors are showing.
nissan gtp
03-15-04, 09:50 PM
Tired of the war? Why, because now that they are over there they talk about merging? For whatever reason they jumped ship, but they only became tired of the war after or right before they went over there. If any of them really cared, there would be one series by now. The two sides would've settled and that would be that.
The split wouldn't have happened, except for Tony .... and it would have been settled by now, except for Tony.
he's the problem now. getting rid of him may be the only solution.
The Hulman Empire could win, or at least destroy ChampCar. The questions really is, to what end? The only people left watching either series are the hard core believers. If Tony were to accomplish his goal, what makes him or Honda & Toyota think they will get the hard core ChampCar fans to just switch series? I won't. I don't think too many here will. Who else is left? The casual fans now all belong to NASCAR.
I suspect the road racing crowd will just watch F1 on TV. That is what I plan. If ChampCar fails, that's where I get off the bus. I will never attend a USGP at Indy. At this point, I have even refused to watch it on TV. I suspect it will move anyway. Once Bernie thinks US open wheel is sufficently ruined, he will pull Tony's GP for lack of parking, or some other complaint, although the real cause will be Long Beach is open again.
I guess what I don't get is this, what exactly does Tony think he is accomplishing? Has it ever sunk in on him, or the morons who support him, that he has ruined the sport he was supposedly trying to save?
mk
Wow! I actually agree with MK...the planets (and Sedna) must be aligning... :eek: ;)
MK, despite TG's recent assinine statements about Indy and 33 cars, his motivation is first and foremost the survival of IMS. As long as Indy remains the crown jewel (in his own small mind), he will have "won". I also firmly believe that C^RT's demise (and now CCWS) became a personal crusade for him and his minions. The Split and the subsequent war became personal for him @ some point. There simply is no rational explanation for TG 's actions. I don't believe that even he knows why he started this or continues it...that was evident during his interview on WT, when even Despain called him on his original Vision statement.
-Kevin
Insomniac
03-16-04, 09:43 AM
CART never made money from racing outside going public. The Three Amigos made a bunch of talk about ChampCars making money in five years or so. That means they were/are hoping a big sponsor would/will step up and pay them. I was looking for that sponsor at LB. Didn't see one. CART was formed in a different economic era, where the health of the sport didn't revolve around dependencies of mega corporation generosity. It's a shame that that is what it takes to go racing these days. I'll never buy a Toyota or a Honda I guarantee you that.
You better believe they had their doubts. There was no guarantee that Otte would rule in their favor or that they could get engines, teams, drivers, sponsors, tires etc. It was a huge gamble that still is playing out.
CART spent every dime on the '03 season. That's why I said '02.
They never made money? Wasn't all the money they made coming from TV rights and sanctioning agreements? At some point they were getting a few million a year from each track just to put on a race. I'm not sure who was responsible for the purse, but given the winner only got $100k, they could afford it. Of course, this was when CART was most popular and they were selling out venues (so the promoter would make back more than what they paid). I agree it's a risk, but you yourself said "The Three Amigos made a bunch of talk about ChampCars making money in five years or so.". They clearly believe it will make money. I never claimed it had to from day one, but they aren't going into this thinking they'll be bank rolling this until they get bored or are broke. They believe in ChampCar enough that they are willing to take the risk and it will pay off in the long run.
My point on '03 is yes they did break the bank, but going in, they had what looked like more than enough money.
Insomniac
03-16-04, 09:44 AM
Finally your true colors are showing.
Please tell me about my true colors.
Insomniac
03-16-04, 09:48 AM
The split wouldn't have happened, except for Tony .... and it would have been settled by now, except for Tony.
he's the problem now. getting rid of him may be the only solution.
I agree. I have no delusions that TG is the primary reason they can't merge and split. I'm just saying the idea that Penske, Ganassi and Mikey hating the split all coincidentally happened right before or after they made the leap. It's convenient for them now.
Insomniac
03-16-04, 09:51 AM
Wow! I actually agree with MK...the planets (and Sedna) must be aligning... :eek: ;)
MK, despite TG's recent assinine statements about Indy and 33 cars, his motivation is first and foremost the survival of IMS. As long as Indy remains the crown jewel (in his own small mind), he will have "won". I also firmly believe that C^RT's demise (and now CCWS) became a personal crusade for him and his minions. The Split and the subsequent war became personal for him @ some point. There simply is no rational explanation for TG 's actions. I don't believe that even he knows why he started this or continues it...that was evident during his interview on WT, when even Despain called him on his original Vision statement.
-Kevin
It was personal the day he kicked CART out. He wanted to run the show and he couldn't. He thought he had it all with the Indy 500. (Wasn't there a story that he just wanted to be on the board or was on the board and it wasn't good enough? I can't remember.)
racer2c
03-16-04, 11:17 AM
Please tell me about my true colors.
It's quite obvious.
It was personal the day he kicked CART out. He wanted to run the show and he couldn't. He thought he had it all with the Indy 500. (Wasn't there a story that he just wanted to be on the board or was on the board and it wasn't good enough? I can't remember.)
He was offered a non-voting seat, but that wasn't good enough for the Rat Basturd. He (and the Hulmans for that matter) has always believed that Indy is the center of the open-wheel racing universe. He wanted more control over C^RT's direction, couldn't get it, so he took his toys home.
-Kevin
It was personal the day he kicked CART out. He wanted to run the show and he couldn't. He thought he had it all with the Indy 500. (Wasn't there a story that he just wanted to be on the board or was on the board and it wasn't good enough? I can't remember.)
Actually the year was 1991, Cart and IMS explored a merger. During the talks, TG wanted all the current BoD members to sell out and install a 5 - 7 member board. The majority of the new BoD where considered sympathetic to IMS with Leo Mehl as head. Cart said no but wanted to continue talks, TG walked out with threats. The 1994 incident was after he was allowed on the board with a non-voting seat. He walked out again after being on a short time.
Really, this all goes back to 1979 and the formation of Cart and breaking away from the IMS influenced USAC. IMS has held a grudge ever since. This is simply long overdue payback in their minds.
Mike Kellner
03-16-04, 01:20 PM
"Really, this all goes back to 1979 and the formation of Cart and breaking away from the IMS influenced USAC. IMS has held a grudge ever since. This is simply long overdue payback in their minds."
Yea, it was really terrible of CART to turn the failing USAC series into a huge success. No wonder The Hulman Empire was so mad. Race teams and other promotors were making a profit from auto racing*. The Hulmans were the only people who were supposed to make any money off the sport. Everyone else was supposed happily go broke for the privilege of running on them Sacred Bricks.
Sheesh! Doesn't anyone understand what Indy means?
mk
*At one point, the Lemming Brown Shirts were calling that "Exporting Value from Indy". Apparently, no one was supposed to gain anything of value for putting on The Hulman's circus.
Sheesh! Doesn't anyone understand what Indy means?
You mean meant.
-Kevin
Insomniac
03-16-04, 11:09 PM
It's quite obvious.
I don't know if anyome here wants to vouch for me, but I think you have it wrong.
Insomniac
03-16-04, 11:12 PM
Actually the year was 1991, Cart and IMS explored a merger. During the talks, TG wanted all the current BoD members to sell out and install a 5 - 7 member board. The majority of the new BoD where considered sympathetic to IMS with Leo Mehl as head. Cart said no but wanted to continue talks, TG walked out with threats. The 1994 incident was after he was allowed on the board with a non-voting seat. He walked out again after being on a short time.
Really, this all goes back to 1979 and the formation of Cart and breaking away from the IMS influenced USAC. IMS has held a grudge ever since. This is simply long overdue payback in their minds.
Thanks for clarifying that. It's like Castro. If only the Texas Rangers let him play. ;) So I guess as long as he's not wasting the family fortune he won't be going away anytime soon. :(
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