View Full Version : OWRS: Member of ACCUS/FIA
Madmaxfan2
02-17-04, 06:26 PM
On that other website, it was mentioned that ACCUS was meeting and that OWRS would be requesting membership as to be FIA recognized. IT is voted on the the other members and speculated that NASCAR, IRL, and USAC may vote against. I viewpoint is forOWRS to forget about FIA recognition. The fans do not care and it avoids the messy politics that has mired CART. What is your take on this?
XFTurboPower
02-17-04, 06:43 PM
they need to do this, it's like the SCCA, you should join
Lizzerd
02-17-04, 07:06 PM
...NASCAR, IRL, and USAC may vote against.
A-holes... I'm not surprised. FTheFrances, FTG, and FTheoldgeezers.
Anyway, what's the point of joining? Who cares? Somebody explain, please.
Do we have to say "that other website" anymore?
Can we get over this now we are on an independently run forum?
I have never had WB edit out any website that I mentioned.
racer2c
02-17-04, 07:23 PM
The FIA, as the governing body of all international series, had a bunch of mumbo jumbo and 'accords' about who races where on what kind of track and all that. That's why CART raced on ovals outside of the US. F1 got the good stuff. Australia was grandfathered in or something like that.
I think it's just protocol in getting recognized as a 'premier international series'.
Mr. Vengeance
02-17-04, 07:30 PM
FIA affiliation might make getting insurance a bit easier, too. (Just a guess).
It's also a racing driver issue. FIA grants licenses, and has the authority to tell drivers where they can and cannot race, IIRC.
fourrunner
02-17-04, 07:44 PM
I would guess since OWRS does race in other countries, they could appeal a "Stupid" decision to FIA directly.
Brian France can raise his level of importance by accepting OWRS application. He just looks spiteful and silly if he doesn't!
Of course OWRS could sue, get an injunction, then win in court as usual!
Tony George loves to wear that loser tag!
I mean PT and most of the rest of the drivers already have their licenses
I guess we'll soon see!
If TG is voting against it, then I'm all in favor. Someone - please take the hammer away from the little man. :mad:
Good to see some news is starting to roll in.
Anyway, what's the point of joining? Who cares? Somebody explain, please.
Among other things, FIA/ACCUS membership means nternational recognition of your series and championship, so drivers competing in it will not be penalized for running the events. This means Super Licenses for drivers competing in your series, which are the ticket to F1 and Bernieland.
audi quattro
02-17-04, 08:32 PM
If FIA is an international body.
Then why in **** is it up to a bunch of americans to decide it's membership?
That is like having the NHL decide if your national hockey team can compete in the olympics.
Makes no sense...........
It is a load of crap dug up by folks looking for anything to make CART/OWRS look bad. The original offer letter proposing Chapter 11 was very specific in listing ACCUS membership as one of the assets OWRS would acquire.
Peter Olivola
02-17-04, 09:04 PM
All right, kiddies, here's how it works: All U.S. based sanctioning bodies who wish to have FIA recognition must be members of the Automobile Competition Committee for the U.S. (ACCUS) the official U.S. member of the FIA. ACCUS is comprised of NASCAR, IRL, USAC, NHRA, CART, SCCA and possibly some others. Membership requires approval of at least a majority of existing members.
If OWRS wants to have all the benefits of FIA recognition, including event listing on the international calendar, super license qualifying status and international license recognition, it must be recognized by its country's FIA member organization. No tickee, no laundry.
This was the same situation CART faced when it was formed in 1979. The solution then is available now; I'm sure SCCA Pro would be more than happy to serve as the sanctioning body of record. Since CART still has ACCUS membership it could also provide the sanction.
This is a poilitically interesting situation. I'm sure there is a whole bunch of behind the scenes maneuvering. Birdie Martin, head of ACCUS, is one of the most astute politicians in U.S. racing. He's also virtually unknown outside the executive suites of the various sanctioning bodies he holds together and one of the reasons he's been effective is because he keeps himself out of the limelight and they all know he won't play the PR game. He's trusted by all. If you can, try mustering the patience to see something play out that won't be in the public eye until it's a done deal. The workings of ACCUS are not a spectator sport.
If FIA is an international body.
Then why in **** is it up to a bunch of americans to decide it's membership?
That is like having the NHL decide if your national hockey team can compete in the olympics.
Makes no sense...........
ACCUS is comprised of NASCAR, IRL, USAC, NHRA, CART, SCCA and possibly some others. Membership requires approval of at least a majority of existing members.
I assume IMSA is and Grand-am (does Grand-am, if so, give the France's 2 votes?) are in the"possibly some others" category?
fourrunner
02-17-04, 10:17 PM
All right, kiddies, here's how it works: All U.S. based sanctioning bodies who wish to have FIA recognition must be members of the Automobile Competition Committee for the U.S. (ACCUS) the official U.S. member of the FIA. ACCUS is comprised of NASCAR, IRL, USAC, NHRA, CART, SCCA and possibly some others. Membership requires approval of at least a majority of existing members.
If OWRS wants to have all the benefits of FIA recognition, including event listing on the international calendar, super license qualifying status and international license recognition, it must be recognized by its country's FIA member organization. No tickee, no laundry.
This was the same situation CART faced when it was formed in 1979. The solution then is available now; I'm sure SCCA Pro would be more than happy to serve as the sanctioning body of record. Since CART still has ACCUS membership it could also provide the sanction.
This is a poilitically interesting situation. I'm sure there is a whole bunch of behind the scenes maneuvering. Birdie Martin, head of ACCUS, is one of the most astute politicians in U.S. racing. He's also virtually unknown outside the executive suites of the various sanctioning bodies he holds together and one of the reasons he's been effective is because he keeps himself out of the limelight and they all know he won't play the PR game. He's trusted by all. If you can, try mustering the patience to see something play out that won't be in the public eye until it's a done deal. The workings of ACCUS are not a spectator sport.
This may be the situation where you never know what to believe. The RUMOR at AR 1 gave the impression that the France's control the voting body by his shere power, and Tony George is a rubber stamp In fact it's implied that the France's even control how long meeting subjects are discussed.... This only leads one to believe that fairness is not on the agenda and the system is basically corrupt.
Peter Olivia brings a totally new person into the equation, and I feel more comfortable now, thanks for bringing this to our attention!
I think we're just a little skittish when it comes to news!
Madmaxfan2
02-18-04, 12:48 PM
I am aware of "Birdie" Martin, I did forget his influnence. However, Is it really necessary of OWRS to function with FIA reconginition? A Super License from FIA could be a OWRS requirement, but the license is issued by the FIA, not OWRS. A track constructed to FIA safety standards is determined by the track, and FIA approval is gained by the track, not a sanctioning body. OWRS can require a track to have FIA manidated safety features, but does OWRS need FIA recognition to gain that benefit? As for foreign races, are they foreign motorsports events outside of the FIA? I believe so. My point is this, ACCUS is comprised of organizations that have demonstrated a less than cooperative attitude towards OWRS, so why is it absolutely necessary for FIA recoginition as requirement for OWRS to start a racing season. If I have learned anything in this sport, the right amount of $$$ can waive all sorts of rules and requirements.
Peter Olivola
02-18-04, 03:38 PM
Yes. It is very necessary. A U.S. based sanctioning body can not conduct a race in another country without FIA approval.
Short version: There are too many political risks unless the payday is big enough and OWRS isn't in a position to guarantee the payday. Big Bad Bernie is still King of the Hill (and none of this has anything to do with the EU issues the FIA is contesting.)
It's all academic anyway. OWRS will find a sanctioning partner if not granted ACCUS membership.
I am aware of "Birdie" Martin, I did forget his influnence. However, Is it really necessary of OWRS to function with FIA reconginition? A Super License from FIA could be a OWRS requirement, but the license is issued by the FIA, not OWRS. A track constructed to FIA safety standards is determined by the track, and FIA approval is gained by the track, not a sanctioning body. OWRS can require a track to have FIA manidated safety features, but does OWRS need FIA recognition to gain that benefit? As for foreign races, are they foreign motorsports events outside of the FIA? I believe so. My point is this, ACCUS is comprised of organizations that have demonstrated a less than cooperative attitude towards OWRS, so why is it absolutely necessary for FIA recoginition as requirement for OWRS to start a racing season. If I have learned anything in this sport, the right amount of $$$ can waive all sorts of rules and requirements.
ferrarigod
02-18-04, 03:42 PM
So would they be full members of the FIA??? If so what about F1's rules concerning safety of tracks and such. I think it would be a great idea to get Max Mosley involved in some way. Even though I don't like the new FIA points or F1 quals, maybe they could mix it up a bit with Champ Car and help in Euro Marketing and South American Marketing.
I see no downsides, they real issue is what about the tracks, and what about SuperLicenses, will vetern CC drivers have to prove their worth. Very interesting rumor. If it comes true I'd be happy to see the FIA involved and not shunning Champ Car/IndyCar as it did in years past when they perceived us as a threat.
Until the European Union found the FIA rules against the law to prevent us from racing on street circuits that they liked we were totally forbidden to race in Euro circuits and challenge Formula 1. This is very interesting.
oh yea, F1 and the FIA more or less gave us Surfers as they decided to move to Adelaide and then Melbourne, we had that one before the ruling, and the only reason we had it is b/c they knew they would never go back. At any rate, this is a nice rumor
Oh yes 1 last thing, I say we get full FIA recognition not ACCUS for US racing teams. I want to see Mosley have some impact on our sport. I still say I don't agree with all he does, but Mosley would bring some much needed credibility to ChampCar. Go for a full license and do it F1 style :)
Peter Olivola
02-18-04, 05:04 PM
Some people see things through rose colored classes. Some people are doom and gloom. Then there's this. Who knows what kind of glasses Ferrarigod uses but they certainly distort reality in unique ways.
So would they be full members of the FIA??? If so what about F1's rules concerning safety of tracks and such. I think it would be a great idea to get Max Mosley involved in some way. Even though I don't like the new FIA points or F1 quals, maybe they could mix it up a bit with Champ Car and help in Euro Marketing and South American Marketing.
I see no downsides, they real issue is what about the tracks, and what about SuperLicenses, will vetern CC drivers have to prove their worth. Very interesting rumor. If it comes true I'd be happy to see the FIA involved and not shunning Champ Car/IndyCar as it did in years past when they perceived us as a threat.
Until the European Union found the FIA rules against the law to prevent us from racing on street circuits that they liked we were totally forbidden to race in Euro circuits and challenge Formula 1. This is very interesting.
oh yea, F1 and the FIA more or less gave us Surfers as they decided to move to Adelaide and then Melbourne, we had that one before the ruling, and the only reason we had it is b/c they knew they would never go back. At any rate, this is a nice rumor
Oh yes 1 last thing, I say we get full FIA recognition not ACCUS for US racing teams. I want to see Mosley have some impact on our sport. I still say I don't agree with all he does, but Mosley would bring some much needed credibility to ChampCar. Go for a full license and do it F1 style :)
If TG is voting against it, then I'm all in favor. Someone - please take the hammer away from the little man. :mad:
Good to see some news is starting to roll in.
Why take the hammer away from him? I am quite amused every time he smashes his own fingers with it.
Viva OWRS.
FYI, here's an article by David Phillips on the subject:
Tough Road to Hoe (http://speedtv.com/commentary/9919/)
I really hope this doesn't end up in the hands of lawyer types. Let's just go racing!!! April 18 just can't get here soon enough.
-Kevin
you are the third max mosley fan on the face of the planet, the first being Max, and then Bernie.
what happened to the all that new f1 points system rage?
just look at WRC to see where mosley takes a series.
Madmaxfan2
02-25-04, 10:04 AM
Given the Phillip's article, more reason for OWRS to go it alone! Whle the WoO and ASA are not quite at the top level, those two organizations have enjoyed growth and TV packages without FIA recognition. IF OWRS can succeed without ACCUS, the dark side will have even less influence over OWRS.
ferrarigod
02-25-04, 11:56 AM
Some people see things through rose colored classes. Some people are doom and gloom. Then there's this. Who knows what kind of glasses Ferrarigod uses but they certainly distort reality in unique ways.
Please tell me exactly how I'm distorting reality? Did the FIA not try to keep CART off of all road circuits outside of the U.S.??? Even so, did the FIA and Bernie and Max not make the msot successful racing in the world??? Also is true.
Personally I think not only do they have to do this, but if they could get the FIA involved more it would be a good thing. Not only helping with international competitions, but just something that is needed to be recignized in the racing community.
No distorted reality, just gave some facts, FIA can be bad, but FIA is very successful, meanwhile this group of the FIA is important. If thats distorted I'd hate to see your reality
dreamracer
02-25-04, 01:04 PM
How OWRS could not be approved as an ACCUS member, is hard for me to understand. :saywhat:
Take one look at the staff of OWRS, and you'll see mostly members of what was CART, who have obvious levels of qualification to operate a racing series.
If they are not approved, it's pure bull sheeet to me.
jonovision_man
02-25-04, 01:06 PM
Please tell me exactly how I'm distorting reality? Did the FIA not try to keep CART off of all road circuits outside of the U.S.??? Even so, did the FIA and Bernie and Max not make the msot successful racing in the world??? Also is true.
Personally I think not only do they have to do this, but if they could get the FIA involved more it would be a good thing. Not only helping with international competitions, but just something that is needed to be recignized in the racing community.
No distorted reality, just gave some facts, FIA can be bad, but FIA is very successful, meanwhile this group of the FIA is important. If thats distorted I'd hate to see your reality
FIA can be good.
But the FIA with Mosley is not good... Although the changes to F1 to make the show more exciting aren't much different in spirit than what we saw in CART with the fuel windows... or the pathetic excuse for a point system we are now stuck with. :(
I'm worried that CART is gone in more than just a name, PG and KK winning may not look so great when their vision is realized. They're big on "entertainment", which seems to be a euphemism for replacing sport with something that looks flashy... Hope I'm wrong!
jono
Peter Olivola
02-25-04, 09:19 PM
Your total lack of comprehension of the FIA structure and the resultant impossibility of OWRS having direct FIA membership is why your views are distorted. Having the FIA take over ChampCar would remove it from its U.S. base. You may think that's good, but the vast majority of the OWRS fan base is in North America, not europe, asia or africa.
Please tell me exactly how I'm distorting reality? Did the FIA not try to keep CART off of all road circuits outside of the U.S.??? Even so, did the FIA and Bernie and Max not make the msot successful racing in the world??? Also is true.
Personally I think not only do they have to do this, but if they could get the FIA involved more it would be a good thing. Not only helping with international competitions, but just something that is needed to be recignized in the racing community.
No distorted reality, just gave some facts, FIA can be bad, but FIA is very successful, meanwhile this group of the FIA is important. If thats distorted I'd hate to see your reality
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