View Full Version : For ex 7Gers wanting political discussion...
Racing Truth
02-13-04, 02:42 PM
Just want reiterate what Hard Driver said on the 7G farewell thread. HD mentioned, I believe, USpoliticsonline.com (or something like that) or Whistlestopper.com. I'll have to check out the 1st, but I'm already at WS and think its a pretty good spot for civil pol. discussion.
Just FYI.
TrueBrit
02-13-04, 03:38 PM
Just want reiterate what Hard Driver said on the 7G farewell thread. HD mentioned, I believe, USpoliticsonline.com (or something like that) or Whistlestopper.com. I'll have to check out the 1st, but I'm already at WS and think its a pretty good spot for civil pol. discussion.
Just FYI.
No thanks...the one thing i enjoyed most about being beaten and bloodied on a daily basis by my mis-informed right-wing bretheren was that at the end of the day none of it really mattered because we are race-fans first and foremost...
I know that WB has a narrow view of "political threads" as evidenced by his moderating as Laguna at 7G but i think that keeping politics out of discussions in this election year is unrealistic. As someone that received the lion's share of abuse in the Off Forum over there I think that overall the tone whilst not always 'civil', it was never nasty or threatening, at least I never thought so....
Also would a prohibition on "politics" also prohibit discussions about current events like Ms Jackson's super bowl incident and the reaction by the puritans on the right? Or how about corporate malfeasance? Or trials of famous people and the right-wing media's addiction to soundbites and fluff?
At 7G it was called the Off Forum for a reason. It was for Off Topic Stuff..If you don't like politics don't engage in the conversations it's as simple as that, but I think that as a bunch of intelligent (mostly) grown-ups it is silly for us to pretend that this isn't an election year, and that people will forget that fact if we simply don't allow talking about it....
I hung out at 7G specifically because those people were worldy, intelligent (sometimes eloquent) educated and spirited RACE FANS...and I valued their opinions, whether they were right (they weren't) or wrong (almost ALL of the time ;) ) in my eyes...
Of course it is ultimately up to Da Boss to make the call, and I will abide by that decision (obviously...it's HIS sandbox afterall!!! :D ) but I would respectfully request that we be allowed to discuss more than JUST racing...Just like real friends do when they gather to chew the cud...
TrueBrit
TB,
The majority of people here don't want to read it, nor do we want it infiltrated into the racing subjects.
I view it sort of like the person that talks on the cell phone in the middle of a crowded restaurant. Just simply annoying. Political and religious topics have a place and that place isn't here. Bringing up either subject is sort of like a troll. You know there is somebody with a very different view reading it and it will inflame them regardless of how eloquently you word it.
Another example for you....
I love to fish and I talk about that on fishing forums. I don't rudely bother the people here with my views on the best bait to use in Lake Conroe because this isn't the place to do it.
WB spelled out the rules of what he will and won't allow in this thread: http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1863
TrueBrit
02-13-04, 04:03 PM
TB,
The majority of people here don't want to read it, nor do we want it infiltrated into the racing subjects.
I view it sort of like the person that talks on the cell phone in the middle of a crowded restaurant. Just simply annoying. Political and religious topics have a place and that place isn't here. Bringing up either subject is sort of like a troll. You know there is somebody with a very different view reading it and it will inflame them regardless of how eloquently you word it.
Another example for you....
I love to fish and I talk about that on fishing forums. I don't rudely bother the people here with my views on the best bait to use in Lake Conroe because this isn't the place to do it.
Which is why politics wasn't brought up in the racing forums at 7G but in the OFF FORUM....using your fishing analogy, if you were discussing fish with someone and that segued into another subject you'd immdeiately go silent becuase it wasn't idrectly related to fishing?? :confused:
Your point would have some validity if politics was being injected into the middle of thread about racing, but to suggest that at a place like this where people of multiple different backgrounds and experiences should ONLY be permitted to talk ONLY about racing is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Would you suggest that you turn off the TV if a programme offended you rather than simply changing the channel??? If a forum contains material that doesn't interest you, DON'T GO THERE!!! For example, if there was a NASCRAP forum on OffCamber I wouldn't go there because it simply doesn't interest me, but should I therefore say that the NASCRAP forum shouldn't be present at OffCamber at all?? That makes no sense at all...
TB
BTW T7, if I was going to Conroe, what baits would be best this time of year??
Has your pre-spawn action started down there yet?
I am not going to arguing with you.
A precedent has been made and a direction has been given by the site Admin.
I like that direction.
BTW T7, if I was going to Conroe, what baits would be best this time of year??
Has your pre-spawn action started down there yet?
Visit www.texasfishingforum.com and read about it. :D
mmmmm.....pre-spawn action.
oddlycalm
02-13-04, 04:17 PM
No thanks...the one thing i enjoyed most about being beaten and bloodied on a daily basis by my mis-informed right-wing bretheren was that at the end of the day none of it really mattered because we are race-fans first and foremost...
<snip>
I hung out at 7G specifically because those people were worldy, intelligent (sometimes eloquent) educated and spirited RACE FANS...and I valued their opinions, whether they were right (they weren't) or wrong (almost ALL of the time ;) ) in my eyes...
As with all things, value is in the eyes of the beholder. I happen to agree with your comments on the level of wit and wisdom, and regarded the off forum discussions as simply another facet of the community. Personally, I am not offended by political discussions, however it's clear that others found them disturbing, or unwelcome in the same way that many people don't want to hear business discussion or politcal debate at a weekend barbecue.
What I do know is that I placed a high value on the community of people that showed up there regularly. During the best years, they were found on the racing forums, however with the advent of a couple years of progressively more dismal news, and the invasion of the trolls on the racing forums, much of the best discussion actually took place on the off forums.
I also don't have any interest in policital or social discussions with a group of people I don't know or care about.
td
WickerBill
02-13-04, 04:50 PM
Brit, two things from your posts:
Also would a prohibition on "politics" also prohibit discussions about current events like Ms Jackson's super bowl incident and the reaction by the puritans on the right? Or ... trials of famous people and the right-wing media's addiction to soundbites and fluff?
We discussed Janet's boob. Quite a bit. Nobody even considered, I bet, turning it into a "right wing" thing. It was (here at least), purely a right BOOB thing. What it has to do with politics, I don't know. I don't see any need to turn a boob into a "look at what the extremist righties are saying" conversation. By doing so, the thread is derailed completely from wholesome talk about boobs into yet another politics thread. It's impossible to tell, then, by the subject title (which, let's say, was something clever like "Janet's boobie") that I should avoid it if I don't like political discussions.
Second...
using your fishing analogy, if you were discussing fish with someone and that segued into another subject
I think that's the key. The seque. Right now, there are many examples on this very board of threads that have ended up going in a different direction. For example, the main 7G thread has ventured into topics such as chat, Titanic, and Kenny Brack. None were exclusionary. If that thread turns into "Bush caused 7G to go under", it becomes exclusionary -- many, many forum members will no longer participate in it. Furthermore, if someone comes in here and wants to read about 7Gs demise and gets a bunch of political rants about the economy, they will without question be soured to opening threads again for fear they will have all been turned into political arguments. Let's even drop politics for a second -- let's say that 10-15 people really liked talking about miniblinds. Every chance they got, they either started a miniblind thread or "segued" another thread into how it affects miniblind hanging, breakage, or buying habits in third world countries. The rest of the members, sick and tired of reading about miniblinds from the vocal few, would be tempted to abandon the ENTIRE SITE in order to find a site where they could talk not only racing, but off-topic stuff as well without fear of being miniblinded at every turn in the off topic forum.
That was my number one problem with allowing politics (and religion) discussions on here and at 7G. I will most definitely concede your point that in an election year, it will be hard for me to keep the stuff down. Let's see how it goes.
WB
Michaelhatesfans
02-13-04, 05:01 PM
"I hung out at 7G specifically because those people were worldy, intelligent (sometimes eloquent) educated and spirited RACE FANS...and I valued their opinions" - Truebrit
You can refer to me by name, I don't mind...
;) :laugh:
TrueBrit
02-13-04, 05:07 PM
Brit, two things from your posts:
We discussed Janet's boob. Quite a bit. Nobody even considered, I bet, turning it into a "right wing" thing. It was (here at least), purely a right BOOB thing. What it has to do with politics, I don't know. I don't see any need to turn a boob into a "look at what the extremist righties are saying" conversation. By doing so, the thread is derailed completely from wholesome talk about boobs into yet another politics thread. It's impossible to tell, then, by the subject title (which, let's say, was something clever like "Janet's boobie") that I should avoid it if I don't like political discussions.
Second...
I think that's the key. The seque. Right now, there are many examples on this very board of threads that have ended up going in a different direction. For example, the main 7G thread has ventured into topics such as chat, Titanic, and Kenny Brack. None were exclusionary. If that thread turns into "Bush caused 7G to go under", it becomes exclusionary -- many, many forum members will no longer participate in it. Furthermore, if someone comes in here and wants to read about 7Gs demise and gets a bunch of political rants about the economy, they will without question be soured to opening threads again for fear they will have all been turned into political arguments. Let's even drop politics for a second -- let's say that 10-15 people really liked talking about miniblinds. Every chance they got, they either started a miniblind thread or "segued" another thread into how it affects miniblind hanging, breakage, or buying habits in third world countries. The rest of the members, sick and tired of reading about miniblinds from the vocal few, would be tempted to abandon the ENTIRE SITE in order to find a site where they could talk not only racing, but off-topic stuff as well without fear of being miniblinded at every turn in the off topic forum.
That was my number one problem with allowing politics (and religion) discussions on here and at 7G. I will most definitely concede your point that in an election year, it will be hard for me to keep the stuff down. Let's see how it goes.
WB
WB, on your first point about Ms Jackson's wholesome booby, one could argue that a political bent would come into it as it appears that it is only the right-wing prisses that have had such a hard time dealing with a woman's naked breast. I mean do you really need a congressional hearing about it fer chrissakes??
On your second point about the mini-blind nutters, I think you missed MY point which was that at 7G NO-ONE injected politics into the CART or F-1 forums because there was no need...that could happen in the Off Forum. If a bunch of mini-blind enthusiasts not only hi-jacked the Mini-Blind forum but then ventured into the Velour Curtain Forum and started yapping about Mini-Blinds you'd have a point. I just can't understand why grown adults have such a hard time with NOT viewing something they don't want to see by NOT viewing it......
TB
WickerBill
02-13-04, 05:10 PM
I just can't understand why grown adults have such a hard time with NOT viewing something they don't want to see by NOT viewing it......
TB
Because it very often is a seemingly normal thread that has been turned political. How was I to know that, five replies down, it would get political?
oddlycalm
02-13-04, 05:28 PM
Just want reiterate what Hard Driver said on the 7G farewell thread. HD mentioned, I believe, USpoliticsonline.com (or something like that) or Whistlestopper.com. I'll have to check out the 1st, but I'm already at WS and think its a pretty good spot for civil pol. discussion.
Perhaps I visited on a bad day RT, but when I looked at them some time back both Whistlestopper and USpoliticsonline struck me as havens for braindead droolers and kiddies. While there seemed to be the odd post from someone with their brain actually turned on salted among the wasteland of dreck, there appeared to be a total absense of style or wit to be found on either site.
While the political/social discussions at 7G were offensive to some, and considered to be at the wrong venue by many more, at their worst they bettered what exists on either of these sites. I suspect that is party due to the age and demographics of champcar and F1 fans.
oc
TravelGal
02-13-04, 05:30 PM
Because it very often is a seemingly normal thread that has been turned political. How was I to know that, five replies down, it would get political?
Just to play devil's advocate (see, I'm on your side TrueBrit), is it possible that threads get hi-jacked into political discussions because there is no outlet for them elsewhere?
I, too, am willing to abide by the no political threads rule although I certainly do lament it. There was nothing like a reading a spirited discussion of the faithful and intelligent partisans to get my grey matter working.
The biggest mystery is what TB just wrote: Why are people so horrified that something they don't want to read is in a place they don't have to go? From the WB standpoint, I can see why you would prefer to keep things nice and neat (and less expensive) by keeping down the number of topics. As for the others, where is that head scratching emoticon?
td
A typo or taildragger?
TrueBrit
02-13-04, 05:39 PM
Because it very often is a seemingly normal thread that has been turned political. How was I to know that, five replies down, it would get political?
WB, I don't mean to belabour the point but if there is a seperate area where political threads are allowed, normal threads in non-political areas would be safe from infiltration. In fact, the argument could be made that the LACK of a place to discuss politics actually ENCOURAGES the infiltration of regular threads.....
Look, you're obviously going to call this the way you see it, and that's fine, but I think that NOT allowing political discussions in an area clearly defined for that specific purpose, makes as much sense as telling teenagers the best way NOT to get STD's or pregnant is by not screwing each other rather than by educating them as to how to protect themselves when the inevitable occurs....
Just so you know, regardless of what you decide to do, I'll be popping in and out as the season progresses, but I would be lying if I said that I wouldn't miss sparring with my friends in an 'Off Forum' environment...
nz_climber
02-13-04, 05:52 PM
Well I take WB's side on this, I don't care one bit for thread being hi-jacked into ranting political bashing of each other
I see this as a forum for Cart, racing, beer and boobs ;) and all the fun stuff that comes with all that (no place for political BS!)
Also this place is international and i don't care for american policitcs, and im sure the candians and other here folks here feel the same, hell i dont even know the difference between liberal and conserative :saywhat:
Racing Truth
02-13-04, 05:57 PM
Before I start, I want to say that I started this thread NOT to argue the policy, but just to give some other options. The policy is what it is.
That said...
WB, I don't mean to belabour the point but if there is a seperate area where political threads are allowed, normal threads in non-political areas would be safe from infiltration. In fact, the argument could be made that the LACK of a place to discuss politics actually ENCOURAGES the infiltration of regular threads.....
Look, you're obviously going to call this the way you see it, and that's fine, but I think that NOT allowing political discussions in an area clearly defined for that specific purpose, makes as much sense as telling teenagers the best way NOT to get STD's or pregnant is by not screwing each other rather than by educating them as to how to protect themselves when the inevitable occurs....
Just so you know, regardless of what you decide to do, I'll be popping in and out as the season progresses, but I would be lying if I said that I wouldn't miss sparring with my friends in an 'Off Forum' environment...
Agreed on all counts.
WB is talking about politics popping up in a racing or non-political threads. Agreed, that can cause problems. But when a thread is clearly titled, say, "Kerry infidelity rumor," everyone should, with half a brain, know that said topic will be political in nature. You don't like, DON'T OPEN IT. Some of us do, however, enjoy the back-and-forth wit.
Clearly, if politics appears in a racing thread, that thread should be nuked or cleansed. Furthermore, said instigator should be punished, if not outright banned, for violating said rules.
But it seems to me that the community forum is an appropriate face for political discussion anyhow. It's separate from the heart of this site, the ChampCar forum, and is the place where racing is NOT discussed.
I have to ask a few here this: How does a thread about, say, George Bush or John Kerry, have ANYTHING to do with a thread on Jimmy Vasser, Paul Tracy, or ChampCars in general? Keep in mind that said threads are in SEPARATE forums.
The mindset from the membership is that political discussions on a separate forum somehow infects all of the forums. I just don't see the logic.
But, it's not my site. ;)
Carry on.
Kiwifan
02-13-04, 06:00 PM
TrueBrit, with the greatest respect I don't want to see Politics discussed here at OC in an Off Forum environment, especially American Politics.
If WickerBill was to put a Political Forum up I would have no problem with that although I would not venture there. I mean who wants to know that this Kiwi thought Clinton was ok and Bush is, er, not as good as his Father? ;) No-one I bet and that's where the trouble lies. People see black where I see white. Some see Democrats and some see Republicans.
I personally felt that the 7G Off Forum was taken over by Political threads although I do agree with you that most were conducted in a civil manner. Truth be-known I possibly agree with your line of thinking Politically but feel that OC is not the place to discuss it. Sorry mate.
Cheers for the rant, ;)
Rusty.
One more stab at this and I am done.
WB stated he doesn't want politics discussed. Simple as that. Either you respect it or you don't.
If I had a rule in my house that you couldn't wear shoes on the new carpet, then you had better kick them off at the front door when you come to visit. If you still insist on wearing them after being reminded not to, then don't get offended when I pull out my shotgun and show you the door.
Racing Truth
02-13-04, 06:08 PM
One more stab at this and I am done.
WB stated he doesn't want politics discussed. Simple as that. Either you respect it or you don't.
If I had a rule in my house that you couldn't wear shoes on the new carpet, then you had better kick them off at the front door when you come to visit. If you still insist on wearing them after being reminded not to, then don't get offended when I pull out my shotgun and show you the door.
Agreed, and I won't. For a few of us newbies, though, we, ahh, question said policy. But I WILL NOT violate it.
TrueBrit
02-13-04, 06:13 PM
One more stab at this and I am done.
WB stated he doesn't want politics discussed. Simple as that. Either you respect it or you don't.
If I had a rule in my house that you couldn't wear shoes on the new carpet, then you had better kick them off at the front door when you come to visit. If you still insist on wearing them after being reminded not to, then don't get offended when I pull out my shotgun and show you the door.
What a typical republican response...what's next get over it??? :shakehead :rolleyes:
;)
How about let's just move on! :rolleyes:
:p
Face it people. Clinton was responsible for 7G's demise...
:D
Kiwifan
02-13-04, 06:22 PM
You do realize mappy that a whole country stood still when he visited New Zealand a couple of years back? I mean, an American President, in New Zealand, cigar in hand..........:) :) No wonder men swooned and ladies fainted. ;)
Rusty.
FWIW, I enjoy the "Community" board on OffCamber as much as any other board. The threads are almost always fun and interesting.
I avoided the Off-Topic board at 7G like the plague, because every thread turned into a pissing match. It also made the forums as a whole feel more contentious.
When there's one board that has repetitive (and redundant) head-butting that mindset seeps onto the other boards, whether the topics are allowed on those or not.
It happened on 7G with people taking the "Off-Topic mentality" to the CART board, and the same has happened on TF with people taking the "Splitzville mentality" to the other boards. Both forums suffered a tremendous drop-off in the quality of discussions after a "fight club" was introduced.
I'm in my late 50's, grew up in a political family, and love auto racing, save NASCRAP. I visit racing sites to learn about racing. I love political discussions, but there is a time & place for everything, and this ain't the place for that discussion. Setting up a separate political forum would be setting a precedent. Just say no to a political forum at this site.
Racing Truth
02-13-04, 06:37 PM
Perhaps I visited on a bad day RT, but when I looked at them some time back both Whistlestopper and USpoliticsonline struck me as havens for braindead droolers and kiddies. While there seemed to be the odd post from someone with their brain actually turned on salted among the wasteland of dreck, there appeared to be a total absense of style or wit to be found on either site.
While the political/social discussions at 7G were offensive to some, and considered to be at the wrong venue by many more, at their worst they bettered what exists on either of these sites. I suspect that is party due to the age and demographics of champcar and F1 fans.
oc
Yeah, they aren't perfect, and they do have some problems, but at least with WS, I can tolerate it. To each their own
Madmaxfan2
02-13-04, 06:38 PM
TG voted for Clinton. Enuff sdaid :p
Racing Truth
02-13-04, 06:38 PM
Anyhow, I humbly suggest that this be closed as it will accomplish nothing else at this point.
TravelGal
02-13-04, 06:42 PM
Actually Rusty, I, for one, would be very interested to know your views on American politics. After all, it's when one isolates oneself that one becomes more vulnerable.
Appreciate JoeBob's insight on "attitude" creep (by the creeps). That is the first thing I've read that explains the horror venting from some folks about having a political forum. Like I said, it's the discussion I value. From what I can tell, repartee is alive and well over here and that suits me fine.
When there's one board that has repetitive (and redundant) head-butting that mindset seeps onto the other boards, whether the topics are allowed on those or not.
It happened on 7G with people taking the "Off-Topic mentality" to the CART board, and the same has happened on TF with people taking the "Splitzville mentality" to the other boards. Both forums suffered a tremendous drop-off in the quality of discussions after a "fight club" was introduced.
I disagree. The problem at 7G started when the moderation changed. Heck I started spending most of my time in off topic because of the ugliness on the cart board.
Michaelhatesfans
02-13-04, 07:03 PM
Agreed!!! :cool:
One more stab at this and I am done.
WB stated he doesn't want politics discussed. Simple as that. Either you respect it or you don't.
If I had a rule in my house that you couldn't wear shoes on the new carpet, then you had better kick them off at the front door when you come to visit. If you still insist on wearing them after being reminded not to, then don't get offended when I pull out my shotgun and show you the door.OK, we're clear on Turn7's feelings about carpet care. But I really want to know where you stand on miniblinds? Do you like wood, aluminium, or vinyl? Inside mount or outside? Simple elegance of one inch, or the rustic look of 2 inch? Do you make your own valances? I do. It's pretty simple, really, you just take a sheet of 1/4 fiber board, plywood, etc... :p
"Actually Rusty, I, for one, would be very interested to know your views on American politics. After all, it's when one isolates oneself that one becomes more vulnerable."
Very much agree. I like to know what them there furriners think of us.
I will miss the chance to talk political smack with intelligent (and good looking!) racefans. I enjoyed it.
OK, we're clear on Turn7's feelings about carpet care. But I really want to know where you stand on miniblinds? Do you like wood, aluminium, or vinyl? Inside mount or outside? Simple elegance of one inch, or the rustic look of 2 inch? Do you make your own valances? I do. It's pretty simple, really, you just take a sheet of 1/4 fiber board, plywood, etc... :p
There is another option. Do what I did. Buy a bed-in-a-bag from KMart. Take the top sheet. Use some finishing nails and there you go. You kill two birds with one stone.
Well, before this thread is closed I want to get my two cents in. I tend to agree with TrueBrit in racing threads and almost always disagree with him in political threads. In this case I agree with him.
I like to participate in political threads when I'm feeling a bit feisty. Lately, that hasn't been the case and I've been avoiding them. What I've found is that it's easy. Just look at the subject (sometimes they're even labled POLITICAL:). I sometimes chuckle when I see a topic and think "I know what's going on in *that* thread)
I don't look at every thread on any board. Some stuff interests me and some stuff doesn't. I don't find it difficult to ignore the thread about Paul Tracy's sister's cat coughing up furballs (unless, perhaps, an unfortunate synonym for the word 'cat' is used ;))
In another sense, I find it sad that - as we all truely hope (whether or not one agrees with the means) that Iraq will become true democracy with the gift of freedom of speech and a fully participatory citizenry - that we here in the U.S. often consider politics a dirty word.
I don't mean to write a sermon. WB can and should set the rules on his own board. Yes, there are other places to go for political threads. But I don't think the traditional forum for American politics is in caucuses, political party conventions, or think tanks. I think that it's really at the barber shop, the corner bar, or now, the internet equivalent of them.
However, I just realized one practical matter that perhaps is the thing that makes this all a problem. In order for WB to moderate these boards, he has to read everything. And he doesn't want to read political threads. So in order to do what he wants to do, he has to do what he doesn't want to do. Are there solutions? Perhaps. But it seems like that might be a big factor in his thinking.
Hard Driver
02-13-04, 07:41 PM
My 2 cents.
I will miss the political discussions. Some, including myself, seemed to like them. I also learned quite a few things in those threads. And I even will say that my opinions were developed and sometimes changed.
I understand Wickerbill's point completely though. Nobody likes being called right wing fanatic or left wing nut when talking about a boob.
I wholeheartidly agree with keeping the politics out of the racing forums. I also see that if it is allowed in the community forum, then it will creep into other non politics threads, for example the boob thread. (BTW, I think it was inappropriate and I am a left wing nut ;) )
I personally would say that creating a new forum specifically for Religion and Politics couldn't hurt. I mean it is not my bandwidth or diskspace, but it is not too hard to do. Then say that if these topics come up in the racing or community forums, it be dealt with just like a personal attack. Warnings, banning and all. So a post about a boob goes in the community forum and if you then say the right wing facists need to lighten up, you get disciplined. And then all those that don't want this in their reading can avoid it, even in the community forum.
I mean it is a racing site, so why have a politics forum.. I can understand that. Why not have a fishing forum too. But the truth of the matter is if you look at the "popularity" or "activity" that politics generated, it was obviously something many people enjoyed over at 7G. So it does seem to me that using economic terms, there is a demand for one. I'm not so sure there is as big a demand for a fishing forum. But you know what, if Wickerbill created a fishing forum, it would be no skin off my back and I just wouldn't go there.
Just my 2 cents.
But I am in Wickerbill's house, so I will take off my shoes on the new carpet. But maybe Wickerbill could create a concrete patio on the side for all of us who like to leave our shoes on and don't mind the hard floor.
There are a lot of political forums out there. If you want to talk about politics go there. The Boss has said that there is no politics on this forum. Why is this so hard to grasp? Get over it. Quit your whinging and find somewhere else to talk about politics.
Here's an idea:
One of you political types can start:
www.7GOffForum.com
and away you go!
Lizzerd
02-13-04, 08:13 PM
I'm just going to copy and paste what I said in the closed thread.
One of the reasons I "left" 7G was the nasty political threads. Ok, I didn't have to read them, you can say, but politics managed to make its way into non-political threads, including racing threads, which really turned me off.
With the demise of 7G and the influx of former 7G regulars (like me), let's not go there again, okay?
Sean O'Gorman
02-13-04, 08:15 PM
Who needs political conversation, hearing grown men talk about miniblinds and velour curtains is much more entertaining! :rofl:
Who needs political conversation, hearing grown men talk about miniblinds and velour curtains is much more entertaining! :rofl:
Indeed. whatever floats your boat.
- the REAL Sean O'Gorman
:D
Well I take WB's side on this, I don't care one bit for thread being hi-jacked into ranting political bashing of each other
I see this as a forum for Cart, racing, beer and boobs ;) and all the fun stuff that comes with all that (no place for political BS!)
Also this place is international and i don't care for american policitcs, and im sure the candians and other here folks here feel the same, hell i dont even know the difference between liberal and conserative :saywhat:
Amen, I'm not here to read or discuss politics nor religion. I'm a Yank and I don't care to discuss American politics either. It'll just drive people away again and this site has been too good to be turned into a mud puddle of everyones varying viewpoints as legititmate as the may be.
Railbird
02-13-04, 08:28 PM
No politics, no religion.
Hold the line WB
pinniped
02-13-04, 08:34 PM
Nuke the gay whales for Jesus.
Luv, "Brown-shirt wearing goose-stepping Wally" :rofl:
Racing Truth
02-13-04, 08:39 PM
Nuke the gay whales for Jesus.
Luv, "Brown-shirt wearing goose-stepping Wally" :rofl:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Anyhow, I want to publicly apologize for the direction that I helped turn this thread into. I never originally meant to challenge the policy, and I'm beginning to understand the reasoning behind it.
Thank you.
devilmaster
02-13-04, 09:04 PM
As I also have a feeling that this thread will be closed soon, let me just put my 2 bits in......
A friend once told me, as he was leaving a political office while I was starting my political career, that politics, in its barest form, is the study of people.
As I read this thread, that comment came back to me. This thread is probably the closest to a political thread that WB will ever allow on his site. Its his site and I respect that. It he opens it up to polysci, i'll respect that too.
To those who enjoyed the political threads and wouldn't mind a return to it, I challenge you. I challenge you to take your drive and determination, your intelligence, your way of words, and your debating skills and put them towards racing debates here.
To that end, the challenge I put to all members is, start threads here. If you pick up a bit of info from a newspaper that has racing about it, post it! No discussion can take place unless a thread has been started, and nothing can be learned unless its started.
And for my comment on religion - "The only good thing to come out of religion - was the music" -- George Carlin.
Steve
I wanna,,,,, I wanna,,,,,, oooooo, me, me, me, I wanna,,,,, F**k seventhG. This aint it. I left seventhgear because a bunch of losers showed up. Why? Well, idiots with time on there hands figured it would be a great place to show the world just how smart they where. They didnt know much about racing, nor have any passion for it. They threw in the odd take on occasion, but manily honed their chops on the dick waving contest that was the "off forum"
I did like some of your positions TrueBrit. You are very dogged. I read them for a while. It got old, as it was the same old "black" versus "white" argument that has been going on for ages. I dont come here to be reminded that Im narrow minded, or a left wing facist.
I have participated on many, many message boards. Most everyone got run into the ground when they became personal battle grounds for those with too high of an opion of themselves and too much time on their hands.
I would hate to see an influx of "off forum" ilk land here. The Internet is full of sites geared (or tilted might be a better word) in that reguard.
All the best
Ziggy
pinniped
02-13-04, 09:22 PM
:rolleyes: how dare people who are racing fans give a hoot about the rest of the world
WB stated his rules clearly quite some time ago, and they work for me.
Having pissing matches make their way to all the CART forum threads became quite annoying.
TravelGal
02-13-04, 09:25 PM
7GoffForum.com. I like it! What I like is a constructive idea. This IS probably the closest we'll ever get to a political debate. It really isn't meant to be whinging.
I admire WB for letting it go on this far. Very interesting to me to hear the views of the folks who post here regularly. I think the point that the moderator has to read the threads is extremely valid. I had not considered the full ramifications of that. I mean, maybe he doesn't LIKE fishing OR miniblinds.
pinniped
02-13-04, 09:38 PM
WB stated his rules clearly quite some time ago, and they work for me.
Having pissing matches make their way to all the CART forum threads became quite annoying.
But you were so good at them! :D Good to see all the real "dick wavers" ( :rofl: ) like ank, jcollins, truebrit and myself are here...what say you that we just discuss racing here and go invade a political forum en masse...we could have great fun...any suggestions...???,,,
Seriously, I think it is a good policy, and its Wickerbill's site. I intend to respect that.
racer2c
02-13-04, 09:38 PM
I really wanted to stay out of this but, I feel compelled to say this...and I preface with a disclaimer, eh hem, I'm not trying to speak for the Boss, this is totally my own opinion..that said, THIS IS NOT 7thBEER. PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO MAKE IT AS SUCH.
This is Off Camber. I've been here a year and find it has developed a personality all it's own. It's not CART cheerleader camp, it's not troll heaven, it's not fence sitter central. It is a forum where the members just "know" what's what. We knew not to start political threads and enjoyed the fact that no one even tried. Sure there were slow days. Time to gather thoughts. With that said, I think it's great many came here after 7G closed. But it hasn't even been 48 hours and the boundries are being pushed.
I feel like the couple having a nice conversation in the dark corner who has a party of 12 take the table next to them and order round after round and complain about the lighting.
Waiter! Check please...
Lizzerd
02-13-04, 10:04 PM
Look at it this way...
It seems to me that the majority of posters in this thread who are IN favor of opening up this forum to political topics and debate generally have a very low post count and/or were recently registered. Not that there's anything wrong with that, because I recognize a lot of names from the 7G glory days and I personally hated the "I have more posts than you, so you don't know squat" threads.
On the other hand, the majority of the posters in this thread who are NOT in favor of opening this forum to political topics and debate generally have been registered a long time and/or have a relatively high post count.
Does anybody else here see the connection?
{Horshack raises his hand:}
OOhhh, oohhhh, ohhhh, Mr. Kotter, Mr. Kotter, Ohhh, Oohhhh, Pick me, pick me Mr. Kotter.
racer2c
02-13-04, 10:27 PM
Aren't we all ex 7Gers?
Maybe, but that's not the point. This isn't 7G. Plain and simple. If the boss comes out and says "hey, I want this to be just like 7G.", than I'll shut my trap. But, considering his edict of no politics on his forum...
But you were so good at them! :D Good to see all the real "dick wavers" ( :rofl: ) like ank, jcollins, truebrit and myself are here...what say you that we just discuss racing here and go invade a political forum en masse...we could have great fun...any suggestions...???,,,
Seriously, I think it is a good policy, and its Wickerbill's site. I intend to respect that.
name the sandbox and i'm there :p
and like r2c said, it's nice having the adults be adults most of the time here ;)
Maybe, but that's not the point. This isn't 7G. Plain and simple. If the boss comes out and says "hey, I want this to be just like 7G.", than I'll shut my trap. But, considering his edict of no politics on his forum...
I am not advocating any change. My point was we all started out once as the same community.
racer2c
02-13-04, 10:38 PM
I am not advocating any change. My point was we all started out once as the same community.
Actually, most of us went to 7G from other forums.
Actually, most of us went to 7G from other forums.
Indeed, I started out at the indystar forums. Which is where a lot of us came from I think. Remember the split there? :laugh:
Every few months I checked in at 7G there always seemed to be a thread going about where all the old members went to. Well, we went here, some got banned off 7G and others just got fed up with the place for one reason or another. One of those other reasons was the political nonsense that was spilling over onto the other boards.
After a year and a couple months of it's existance, OC hasn't had a single political thread and I haven't heard a single person ask why until the last 2 days. We don't need them. If you must, pm each other but please, let's keep this place clean of it.
Please don't make me leave again, I'm closing in on my 1000th post here. :D
eiregosod
02-13-04, 10:42 PM
I did enjoy the discussions at 7G,
but hey, I'll abide by the rules of any forum, its a ****-lot of work to maintain them at the best of times
lone_groover
02-13-04, 10:44 PM
As always, network tv, K-Tel and the Longines Symphonette Society have ALL the answers to life's most vexing questions. You don't have to look far, frendz. Just heed this gentle admonition from those tuneful capitalists, The Hues Corporarion:
Rock the Boat, Don't Rock the Boat, Baby...
:)
Look at it this way...
It seems to me that the majority of posters in this thread who are IN favor of opening up this forum to political topics and debate generally have a very low post count and/or were recently registered. Not that there's anything wrong with that, because I recognize a lot of names from the 7G glory days and I personally hated the "I have more posts than you, so you don't know squat" threads.
On the other hand, the majority of the posters in this thread who are NOT in favor of opening this forum to political topics and debate generally have been registered a long time and/or have a relatively high post count.
Does anybody else here see the connection?
Yup.
Brickman
02-13-04, 11:39 PM
I personally like a Political Forum separate from an Off Topic forum. But I also think politics and racing doesn't mix. I respect a number of members who racing views I didn't agree with but their politics were quite agreeable.
pinniped
02-14-04, 12:30 AM
I feel like the couple having a nice conversation in the dark corner who has a party of 12 take the table next to them and order round after round and complain about the lighting.
Waiter! Check please...
Really? Well I feel like the guy who was invited to dinner by a large group, welcomed by most, only to find mixed in with the party are a couple of misfits smirking because they don't like anyone else enjoying themselves or because they harbor some weird insecurity...
Seriously. We've all said we would honor the forum rules. If you can't handle this one thread then please please don't walk by any bookstores or turn on your television...there might be stuff there you don't want to see... :eek:
WickerBill
02-14-04, 12:38 AM
This'll be the post that ends this thread. Sorry I've been away this evening and not "in the fray", so to speak. I'm learning to play euchre. Ugh.
I've stated several reasons for not having political threads on here, but there's one I haven't stated, because I somehow think it makes me look bad. At this time, though, I think I'd better put it on the table.
Yours truly is hardly apolitical. I have some strong leanings on some pretty serious issues.
That being said, I do not think I have the ability nor the talent to properly, fairly, and evenhandedly moderate political discussion. One of two things would happen: 1. I would be unfair to those who I disagreed with -- quicker on the trigger for them, as an example; or 2. I would be easier on those I disagreed with, in order to make myself believe I was being an impartial judge.
That, along with the other reasons I've stated, and the "has to read every post" piece L1P1 mentioned, is the true reason that I want OC to remain this way.
I would be *very* happy to discuss this futher with any of you via email. Seriously.
Have a great weekend!
WB
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