PDA

View Full Version : Daytona 24



jonovision_man
02-01-04, 08:40 AM
Time to stop making fun of NASCAR drivers... quite a job by the lads, especially given their lack of experience in the wet! As David Hobbs says, usually if there's even a damp patch, they throw the red flag... :)

They're throwing the red... :-( But it's really bad, I don't think even F1 would continue in this rain.

jono

Railbird
02-01-04, 09:19 AM
Even though the cars still make me cringe I've been enjoying the event, and yes the Nascar boys have been doing a nice job in the lead effort.

of course the announcers won't let you forget that even though Andy Wallace is doing the heavy lifting.

Terrible weather

jonovision_man
02-01-04, 09:54 AM
Even though the cars still make me cringe I've been enjoying the event, and yes the Nascar boys have been doing a nice job in the lead effort.

of course the announcers won't let you forget that even though Andy Wallace is doing the heavy lifting.

Terrible weather

Yeah, they're laying it on a little thick, but honestly most people were betting that the rain would be the end of them. :)

Some comments I heard from one of the drivers were that the banked sections are actually easier in the rain than the infield, suggesting the grip is compensated for by the banking. Makes you wonder if oval racing in the wet is actually possible, with some rain tires? Sure, it's more dangerous, but NASCAR is already pretty nuts with their big crashes... and road racing in the wet is more dangerous than road racing in the dry, they still do it.

I'm no oval expert, I don't watch a lot of oval racing, so maybe someone more into it could shed some light?

jono

JoeBob
02-01-04, 10:26 AM
Road racing in the rain is probably safer than oval racing on a sunny day. In road racing, you have run off. On an oval, you have a wall.

Also, keep in mind that Daytona has enough banking to compensate for almost anything. Most ovals don't.

pchall
02-01-04, 11:22 AM
It's still fake cars and the fake racing.

jonovision_man
02-01-04, 11:31 AM
It's still fake cars and the fake racing.

I assume you're refering to NASCAR, not the Rolex 24?

jono

DaveL
02-01-04, 11:42 AM
I've been enjoying the race.

NASCAR drivers historically have acquitted themselves well in the 24 Hours.

Racewriter
02-01-04, 03:19 PM
I've been enjoying the race.

NASCAR drivers historically have acquitted themselves well in the 24 Hours.

Yep. Those who took off their political blinders had a good race to enjoy.

RacinM3
02-01-04, 03:19 PM
Fake cars and fake racing? Heh, I'd like to see YOU hustle one of those cars around the track for 24 hours on stints. If you ever had, maybe you wouldn't say that. Regardless of politics, a 24 hour sporstcar race is an extremely tough challenge; I can tell you from experience. My hat's off to all those drivers and crews who stuck it out through extremely challenging conditions! If you weren't on the edge of your seat at the end (1st and 2nd GT cars within less than 10 secs. of each other after 24 hours....unreal!!), you might want to have your pulse checked.

pchall
02-01-04, 07:13 PM
I assume you're refering to NASCAR, not the Rolex 24?

jono

I'm refering to the Grand Sham -- those DSP cars are a pathetic excuse for what should be top level sportscar racing.

Racewriter
02-01-04, 07:26 PM
I can remember when the 24 was nothing but GT cars.

And it was pretty cool then, too.

Sean O'Gorman
02-01-04, 11:07 PM
Fake cars and fake racing? Heh, I'd like to see YOU hustle one of those cars around the track for 24 hours on stints. If you ever had, maybe you wouldn't say that. Regardless of politics, a 24 hour sporstcar race is an extremely tough challenge; I can tell you from experience. My hat's off to all those drivers and crews who stuck it out through extremely challenging conditions! If you weren't on the edge of your seat at the end (1st and 2nd GT cars within less than 10 secs. of each other after 24 hours....unreal!!), you might want to have your pulse checked.

:thumbup:

racer2c
02-01-04, 11:45 PM
Fake cars and fake racing? Heh, I'd like to see YOU hustle one of those cars around the track for 24 hours on stints. If you ever had, maybe you wouldn't say that. Regardless of politics, a 24 hour sporstcar race is an extremely tough challenge; I can tell you from experience. My hat's off to all those drivers and crews who stuck it out through extremely challenging conditions! If you weren't on the edge of your seat at the end (1st and 2nd GT cars within less than 10 secs. of each other after 24 hours....unreal!!), you might want to have your pulse checked.

The same could be said about tin top NASCAR taxi cabs. The same could be said about a missed pass in the NFL. The same could be said about a bad night during a Stones concert.

It doesn't excuse the fact that Grand Sham pales in comparison to it's counterparts.

racer2c
02-01-04, 11:47 PM
and I'll; add, with attitudes like those Grand Sham sympathizers in this post, we might as well forgo all racing series and just watch Nextel Cup. It's that simple.

Cam
02-02-04, 12:00 AM
we might as well forgo all racing series and just watch Nextel Cup. It's that simple.

Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will just crawl under a rock and fade away then! :thumdown:

jonovision_man
02-02-04, 12:09 AM
Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will just crawl under a rock and fade away then! :thumdown:

No kidding! I can't believe how negative you folks are toward everything, I thought it was just IRL but man! :thumdown:

Nothing fake about that racing, those guys were driving the tires off of those things (sometimes literally), and it was a blast to watch some really talented sportscar drivers mix it up with some apparantly talented NASCAR guys. There was a lot of goodwill in that paddock.

Sure, the cars aren't the highest tech things, but compared to F1 neither is CART.

jono

Lizzerd
02-02-04, 12:30 AM
Actually, I was pleasantly surprised by the DSP's in action. One of them won the race this year. They and the racing were no comparison to years past when the big factory teams raced there, though. But considering what the series is (dumbed down), and who owns and runs the series (dumb, and who dumbs it down), and the other series the owners run (also dumbed down), it was a good show.

RacinM3
02-02-04, 01:29 AM
The same could be said about tin top NASCAR taxi cabs. The same could be said about a missed pass in the NFL. The same could be said about a bad night during a Stones concert.

It doesn't excuse the fact that Grand Sham pales in comparison to it's counterparts.

That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. You could say the same about NASCAR, if they ran 24 hours, or about a missed game, if it was played for 24 hours straight. Or the Stones.....well, you get it.

While I'm not a big fan of the Grand Am series (I much prefer ALMS), there's just something about the 24 Hour enduros that rises above the politics for me. At the end of the LONG day, it's just a bunch of guys pulling it together, to get that last bit of speed out of their worn out race cars.

Watching Tony Stewart lose it while leading, with only about 14 minutes left in the race, left an idelible impression on me, and I never even thought at the time how much I disliked the DSPs. Regardless, as a driver, I'd say yes to anyone who asked me to participate, DSP or not. These races aren't so much about the cars. They're about the drivers, and their heroic crews. They shoudn't be disrespected in light of their efforts.

Lizzerd
02-02-04, 04:24 AM
I understand where you're coming from RM3. Well, no I don't on the level you do because I've never been there, but I can surely appreciate the dedication, hard work, and so on to even make it to the checkers in a 24 (or 25) hour race. Completing any event that demanding to man and machine, much less winning it, is a phenonemal accomplishment.

I can dislike the formula, but the admiration and respect that I have to the winners of the Daytona 24 or any enduro race cannot be denied. Yourself included.

Ziggy
02-02-04, 11:10 AM
I watched some of it. I was surprised that I did enjoy it more so than last season. Not enough to camp out in front of the set with model supplies and make a weekend out of it, but I did watch the first segment that was on TV. (about 2 hours)

Some observations: The car that Wallace/DEjr/TS was the best looking car out there. What is the deal with the wheel flying off? I saw the first wheel depart company with the car. Wallace did an excellent job of avoiding a wrecker crew introduction. Those cars with the single headlight in the nose are just so freakin' ugly they need to be driven to the crusher, pronto! Commercials where hot and heavy, and the Classie Chassie commercial needs to be put to rest (for Indy residents)

So yes, the increase in prototypes made the race better to watch. The constant reference to NASCAR drivers was over the top. The reference to Dale Earnhardt was over the top (Pedro Rodriguez he was'nt) and basically all the sucking up to NASCAR was uncalled for. No manufacture's back drop.

It's better, but a centerpiece it is not

Ziggy

Racewriter
02-02-04, 06:25 PM
Actually, I was pleasantly surprised by the DSP's in action. One of them won the race this year. They and the racing were no comparison to years past when the big factory teams raced there, though. But considering what the series is (dumbed down), and who owns and runs the series (dumb, and who dumbs it down), and the other series the owners run (also dumbed down), it was a good show.

That's really the issue isn't it? Just more anti-NASCAR penis envy. Bottom line - Daytona drew a field of 53 cars among 3 classes. They had enough cars in each class to have an interesting race. Nobody got hurt, and no cars soared into the air. The top cars were extremely well driven, and well prepared. It's just that it was put on by the France family, and that's what has everyone's panties in a wad.

I'm not the world's biggest fan of the DSP's either, but they seem to be meeting their objective nicely - bringing in enough private entrants to put together a race. That's a completely different market than ALMS' factory centered approach, and I don't think either takes away from the other one. And, even the factories can get it dreadfully wrong - witness the flights of the Mercedes, or the testing flight that took Alboreto's life.

I'm with M3 on this one. Hell, I'd like to do the 24 one of these days. Fat chance, of course, since I'm a dirt tracker, but I think it would be a blast, and a gut-wrenching experience all at the same time.

RichK
02-02-04, 06:44 PM
I didn't watch the start, or any of the coverage until the last hour because I don't like the DP cars AT ALL. But, I was home for the last hour and watched two close finishes in two classes, which was exciting. Watching the Porsche GT's corner MUCH faster than the DPs was pretty lame, I must say.

It beats IRL racing any day, though! :p

RacinM3
02-02-04, 07:24 PM
You have to be careful making that comparison, Rich. At the end of any 24 hour race, you know many of the cars aren't circulating at their optimal speed. Both of the DSP's that were leading going into the last hour were pretty wounded. The GT cars weren't passing them at the start of the race. This is pretty standard endurance stuff.

Now, if you have issues with the fact that the GT's are artificially slowed in general by the rules, you'd have no argument from me, I don't like it one bit.

For this race, I think the best DSP time was a 1:48.9, while the best GT lap was a 1:53.9. If those five seconds were ALL made up on the straights, I'd be surprised.

Something I found funny, I was reading another board where someone was going off about how during this race a team was allowed to repair a pretty major mechanical failure, and get their car back on track. The poster's point was slanted by their hatred of NASCAR teams being able to do the same thing. I bet this same person was waxing poetic a few years ago when Audi was doing the 12 minute gearbox/rear suspension/rear brake quick-changes, thinking it was the coolest thing in the world (which, by the way, it was)!

Funny how politics can affect one's thinking. :)

Peter Olivola
02-02-04, 07:31 PM
Driven, yes. Prepared, well, the results speak for themselves. Not one of the DP's ran the full distance at anywhere near full effort due to various mechanical issues. Yes, some were driver error induced, but the overall preparation level of the DP's didn't match either the GT or SGS field as a whole.


The top cars were extremely well driven, and well prepared.

Ziggy
02-02-04, 07:41 PM
RacinM3, I would wager that the guy who posted that has been following the sport for all of 4 years or less.

Message boards are chalk full of newbie experts, and I agree with Peter's comments about the number of breakdowns. Way to high.

Ziggy

RichK
02-02-04, 08:03 PM
You have to be careful making that comparison, Rich. At the end of any 24 hour race, you know many of the cars aren't circulating at their optimal speed. Both of the DSP's that were leading going into the last hour were pretty wounded. The GT cars weren't passing them at the start of the race. This is pretty standard endurance stuff.


Yeah, I was only watching the last hour. But, to my eye, watching the 2nd place GT car trying to catch first place, he just looked much faster in all the corners than the DP cars.....at that same moment one of the announcers said that the Porsches were faster in the turns, and got eaten up on the straights, so I figured I was pretty smart to see it!

RacinM3
02-02-04, 09:20 PM
the overall preparation level of the DP's didn't match either the GT or SGS field as a whole

I agree 100%. Plus, having wheels fall off has got to be the worst indication of a lack of preparedness. I mean, Stewart's car is running with a broken right rear suspension, doing decent lap times, and the car DNF's because the LEFT rear wheel nut lets go? :saywhat: I wonder how much strain the left rear was under due to the right rear's failure.

Racewriter
02-02-04, 09:44 PM
Driven, yes. Prepared, well, the results speak for themselves. Not one of the DP's ran the full distance at anywhere near full effort due to various mechanical issues. Yes, some were driver error induced, but the overall preparation level of the DP's didn't match either the GT or SGS field as a whole.

Point taken. Although, the issues with the Stewart/Wallace/Earnhardt Crawford may have stemmed more from a design issue than the team's prep. But, since it was Crawford's team, I guess it all blends into one.

FCYTravis
02-03-04, 01:19 AM
You have to be careful making that comparison, Rich. At the end of any 24 hour race, you know many of the cars aren't circulating at their optimal speed.
Remember the Porsche that ran a good eight hours sans front end? Aerodynamics of a brick, I tells ya ;)

Joe in LA
02-03-04, 12:13 PM
I'll post my "gripe" about the series. It has nothing to do with the France family or NASCAR per se. What I don't like about DSP is that the "prototypes" are, IMHO supposed to be high tech, outrageous and expensive, not a form of stockcar. However, the real puzzle to me about this series is the lower classes. Why on earth are the rules such that the lowest class cars are esssential the same as the GT cars. While 911 Cup cars are readily available, they are far from inexpensive. IMHO, the France family should have focussed on a lower budget target for the lowest class.

Racing Truth
02-13-04, 02:21 PM
I'm 2 weeks late on this thread, but I just wanted to say that I enjoyed this year's Daytona 24 hrs. Hey, are the DP's ugly? Sure (though the Crawford was decent). But it is what it is, and its not going away.

Furthermore, I'm not sure ALMS is really that far in front of it, if they are indeed competing.