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View Full Version : NASCAR needs to do something about their points system.



mapguy
11-10-03, 08:27 AM
Can a title fight get any more lamer? Matt Kenseth spent about half the year tooling around in the mid pack cruising for points. Ryan Newman wins 8 races and is in 5th and Kenseth wins 1 and wins the title.

scanman
11-10-03, 08:35 AM
I guess that's the whole point, ""Everybody gets points"
Keep the sponsors happy...make it look like they are in the
hunt for the prize...I gave up on that series back in the days
when they were stock cars...you know when they had
to make 500 for the road...

pchall
11-10-03, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by scanman ...I gave up on that series back in the days
when they were stock cars...you know when they had
to make 500 for the road... [/B]

Mmmmmmm. 500 super clean aero Torinos, 500 Daytona Chargers, 500 Super Birds...

It has been over thirty years since NASCAR started taking all of the fun out of their series. First they ruled out the fun engines. Then they ruled out the fun aero cars. Then they froze the basic engine and chassis with a stone age spec. And finally they introduced "parity" among the cars.

scanman
11-10-03, 09:37 AM
It used to be fun, with REAL support from the fans for
their make of car....Ford, Chevy or Chyrsler...ah the
good old days....

cart7
11-10-03, 09:53 AM
Ahh yes, the days of Plymouth Superbirds and Ford Talledega Torino's on the showroom floor just waiting for you to take the plunge,(for a couple thou over a standard model. :)

scanman
11-10-03, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by cart7
Ahh yes, the days of Plymouth Superbirds and Ford Talledega Torino's on the showroom floor just waiting for you to take the plunge,(for a couple thou over a standard model. :)

Ah yes, don't I know....I traded in a 65 Ford Galaxie 2drhtp (only had it for 5 months) for a 66 Mustang GT..but when I walked in the showroom (back when they used to black out the windows so you couldn't see in) there was a 7litre Ford....I was close to buying but they wanted to much... :D ...the good old days...

mapguy
11-10-03, 10:10 AM
Oops. Wrong thread.

chop456
11-10-03, 11:04 AM
Kenny Wallace was on one of the motorsport shows a month or so back and ripped the current points system for all the same reasons we do.

It's a joke, and so is the new F1 system.

DaveL
11-10-03, 11:05 AM
[i]Originally posted by mapguy
Matt Kenseth spent about half the year tooling around in the mid pack cruising for points.


You may want to double check your results mapguy. Kenseth had 25 top 10 finishes and 15 of those were in the top 5. He was the only driver to average a top 10 finish. When 43 cars start each race, my math tells me that's not "mid-pack" and that's not "cruising". At worst he can be accused of sandbagging until the final 100 miles of a race before he charges into the top five.

The NASCAR points system is not perfect and I'm not a fan of it. But don't knock Kenseth because of it. Week in and week out, he was the best driver this year.

JoeBob
11-10-03, 11:37 AM
I was going to post the same thread, after reading the following stats in this morning's newspaper.


Points Starts Wins Top five Top 10
1. Matt Kenseth 4,988 35 1 11 25
2. Jimmie Johnson 4,762 35 3 13 19
3. Dale Earnhardt Jr. 4,724 35 2 13 21
4. Ryan Newman 4,659 35 8 17 22
5. Jeff Gordon 4,625 35 3 14 19
6. Kevin Harvick 4,595 35 1 10 17
7. Tony Stewart 4,398 35 2 12 17
8. Bobby Labonte 4,197 35 1 11 16
9. Bill Elliott 4,151 35 1 9 11
10. Kurt Busch 4,095 35 4 9 14

Kenseth having 1 win, 11 top fives, and 25 top tens and winning the championship, while Newman has 8 wins, 17 top fives, and 22 top tens, yet is in fourth. That just seems wrong. Kenseth won the championship based on finishing better when not in the top 10. (The mid-pack runs referred to earlier.) That just isn't right.

I still think CART's system of a premium for winning, and only awarding points to (approximately) the top half of the finishers was best. (Now that CART is down to 19 entries, I think 12 getting points is too many.)

DaveL
11-10-03, 12:23 PM
I stand corrected on the 15 top fives.

Last year Kenseth won the most races and didn't come close to the championship.

I'm not saying the NASCAR points system is the best. I think it should place a higher premium on winning and eliminate the need for cars in wrecks to putt around to get points. But everyone in NASCAR knows how points are payed out and the goal is to win the championship. Kenseth and his team played the game better than anyone else this year so he gets the Cup.

Accipiter
11-10-03, 12:57 PM
I don't think anyone should criticize Kenseth for playing the system as well as he did. Change the system, and he'd play it a different way.

RTKar
11-10-03, 07:46 PM
"4. Ryan Newman 4,659 35 8 17 22"

How the hell did Newman not win the thing, 7 more wins...reward mediocrity I suppose...it's like the hanford device of points systems...just lay back and collect points...and win the championship.


"1. Matt Kenseth 4,988 35 1 11 25"

cart7
11-11-03, 06:08 AM
Not to take anything from Matt, but Ryan was far more interesting to watch this year.

FRANKY
11-11-03, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by DaveL
You may want to double check your results mapguy. Kenseth had 25 top 10 finishes and 15 of those were in the top 5. He was the only driver to average a top 10 finish. When 43 cars start each race, my math tells me that's not "mid-pack" and that's not "cruising". At worst he can be accused of sandbagging until the final 100 miles of a race before he charges into the top five.

The NASCAR points system is not perfect and I'm not a fan of it. But don't knock Kenseth because of it. Week in and week out, he was the best driver this year.

Don't you mean he was the best Wisconsin driver week in and out? :D

He no doubt played the game well. Kudos are in order. Hopefully a new points system gets announced after the awards ceremony in New York.

Ankf00
11-11-03, 01:50 PM
you play for the points and that's all there is to it, but sucks for newman AND kenseth their superiority in the wins column has shafted em the past 2 years collectively.

pchall
11-11-03, 05:37 PM
The points system cleary sucks.

Too bad so much talent and so many resources get wasted on such a banal form of motorsports entertainment.

rabbit
11-12-03, 05:10 PM
2003 race-by-race, for comparison sake...

Matt Kenseth
http://www.nascar.com/drivers/dps/mkenseth00/wc/images/mkenseth00_2003_statsChart.gif
Ryan Newman
http://www.nascar.com/drivers/dps/rnewman00/wc/images/rnewman00_2003_statsChart.gif

pchall
11-12-03, 05:19 PM
Dang, rabbit. How dare you remind us that the NASCAR points system is essentially one for an endurance racing series. This is exactly why Grand Am will rule the road courses and ISC infields in five years...

JoeBob
11-12-03, 05:22 PM
Larry Foyt
http://www.nascar.com/drivers/dps/lfoyt00/wc/images/lfoyt00_2003_statsChart.gif

mapguy
11-12-03, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by JoeBob
Larry Foyt
http://www.nascar.com/drivers/dps/lfoyt00/wc/images/lfoyt00_2003_statsChart.gif

:rofl:

rabbit
11-12-03, 05:28 PM
Post of the week, JoeBob. :laugh:

Turn7
11-12-03, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by JoeBob
Larry Foyt
http://www.nascar.com/drivers/dps/lfoyt00/wc/images/lfoyt00_2003_statsChart.gif

And this is the next line after the chart.....

Starts: 19 Wins: 0 Earnings: $1,133,190

Pay me over a million and make fun of me all you want.

JoeBob
11-12-03, 06:54 PM
Interesting T7.

Now try this on for size:
Larry Foyt 2003 purse money: $1,133,190
A.J. Foyt IV 2003 purse money: $793,015

Heck, Larry Foyt got more purse money than all but six IRL drivers! (And probably the entire CART field, but CART doesn't release purse numbers.)

Gil de Ferran collected the most purse money in the IRL in 2003. His total earnings of $2,316,815 would put him 36th in NASCAR Winston Cup Driver Earnings! Kenny Wallace and Jeff Green only managed to finish in the top ten once, and both collected more purse money than Gil!

:eek:

rabbit
11-12-03, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by JoeBob
Gil de Ferran collected the most purse money in the IRL in 2003. His total earnings of $2,316,815 would put him 36th in NASCAR Winston Cup Driver Earnings! Kenny Wallace and Jeff Green only managed to finish in the top ten once, and both collected more purse money than Gil!

:eek: And both would be recognized by more people in a random survey.

Thanks for fixing open-wheel racing Tony. :rolleyes:

Ankf00
11-12-03, 07:41 PM
bah, didn't read the chart legends

Turn7
11-13-03, 08:47 AM
Keep in mind that Winston Cup runs 43 races a year. Over double the work of an IRL/CART driver.

NASCAR is still like hitting the lottery.

JoeBob
11-13-03, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Turn7
Keep in mind that Winston Cup runs 43 races a year. Over double the work of an IRL/CART driver.

Larry only made 19 races - that's open wheel territory!

Don Quixote
11-13-03, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by JoeBob
Larry Foyt
http://www.nascar.com/drivers/dps/lfoyt00/wc/images/lfoyt00_2003_statsChart.gif
Funniest thing I have seen in a long time! :laugh:
Do I perhaps see an upward trend in the standings line? If you extrapolate it to 10,000 races he would have finished in the top 35!