View Full Version : Seoul Oct 23
This story says that Seoul is on for October 23rd next year at a course that does not yet exist.
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/sports/200310/kt2003101516261011650.htm
That makes sense for a shared trip with Australia, but the rest of the story sums up why I'm skeptical of the venture. I suppose you could look at it either way, their motorsports market is very young right now, but that leaves room for tremendous growth. I just hope they're getting paid up front.
KobySon
10-22-03, 09:52 AM
...(CART), North America’s biggest motor racing competition...
I love the Koreans. :laugh:
Railbird
10-22-03, 10:04 AM
Unless the series is pocketing some serious cash I'm not in favor of this trip. It looks like a complicated distraction with little chance of either rebuilding the base or attracting stateside attention.
Other than splitting the cost with Surfers I guess I'm failing to see the point.
Dirty Sanchez
10-22-03, 10:18 AM
BPTCCWSPB-Kia? :D
Originally posted by Crapus
BPTCCWSPB-Kia? :D
lol
I agree with 'bird. I mean, since the teams are likely to be chasing North American sponsors, how do they sell this to a potential sponsor? Companies like Target, Players, Gigante, etc are probably not interested in overseas races. (and because the race will likely be either tape delayed or live at a weird hour, it won't get much TV ratings here)
Does CART simply pay the teams a big fee to go, since it essentially provides no value to the team sponsors?
Chris, even if Players was interested, it wouldn't do 'em any good. But I did have an idea!!!
If they took your advice and went with a P1 chassis, they could save a ton of dough on the overseas freight. ;)
Joe in LA
10-22-03, 11:54 AM
I would much rather see some of the road courses in North America that are currently not on the schedule.
Rumour has it, S. Korean formula racing superstar, Hin Dha Whal was seen testing with Coyne. Maybe that's the connection. ;)
Andrew Longman
10-22-03, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Joe in LA
I would much rather see some of the road courses in North America that are currently not on the schedule.
Ditto, unless this in some wierd way helps current and prospective sponsors. I don't see it though.
Treeface
10-22-03, 02:30 PM
British American Tobacco Korea
I think that's the point.
Ed_Severson
10-22-03, 03:01 PM
C'mon, guys.
This is Champ Car.
Ya gotta have Seoul. :laugh:
Getting paid a fee to race is what it is all about. OWR will want a few races to replace those that they won't be putting on.
And there are a large number of Korean conglomerates who sell product in North America, who might see Champ Cars as a way to promote them.
KobySon
10-22-03, 06:16 PM
Wasn't there a Lucky Goldstar rumor not all that long ago and are they not a Korean Co.?
Getting paid a fee to race is what it is all about.
But what about the teams? Anyone know if they get paid a special high fee for going? (since it brings no value at all to their sponsors at all)
I've got nothing against the fans in Korea, Australia, England, or Germany... but I just don't see any advantage for CART (particularly the teams) to run overseas races at this time.
It's new and different.CART is known for this. In that regard I'm for it.Though, it goes against everything we've been told or heard. Rebuilding, so you go to an unknown and untested product? Exactly as noted, CART sponsors and the Korean market?
The one thing that bugged me was the notion that CART needed to get out of F1 country? That must be more of Pookey butt kissing to his lover Bernie. I loved when CART went to Europe. What I don't like is CART going road racing over there. Take something they don't or didn't have much of...oval racing. Oval racing is as American as it gets. CART does it all but take that part of the product to F1 country. The fans loved it. If promoted and handled better they can still be very successful in England and Germany.
Go up against F1 one on one and show them we can compete.F1 can't compete against ovals.F1 has become a joke anyway so take it to them.
Originally posted by stools
The one thing that bugged me was the notion that CART needed to get out of F1 country? That must be more of Pookey butt kissing to his lover Bernie.
I think it's just the opposite. I think Pook felt like CART needed to be in Europe because he was courting European engine manufacturers. He was banking on selling enough sponsorship to get by until he could get an engine deal that would bring credibility back to the series and start sponsorship flowing back in. That didn't fly and I really doubt that Pook has much say on the scheduling decisions at this point.
As much as I liked Brands Hatch, Rockingham and Lautsitz, I don't see any sign that CART is going to be big enough in Europe to justify taking the series out of North America any time in the foreseeable future. The sanction fees aren't there and the sponsorship isn't there.
Kalkhoven has made the call, the European races are out Seoul is in. And the reason is now clear - the city of Seoul is willing to pay to make it happen.
http://espn.go.com/rpm/cart/2003/1024/1646146.html
"Our focus is in the Americas, North and South, and the Pacific Rim,'' Kalkhoven said in pit lane outside the garage of his PK Racing Team. "Going to Europe into the heartland of Formula One is not the smartest thing we could do.
"We're going to take it steady. We're doing one more Pacific event, in Seoul. We've already got the government backing with all the assistance of the city of Seoul.''
While this makes more sense for CART than the Euro-races where the promoter had to make the big sanction fee work, it still has the potential to be another Rio if the political tides turn, and the question of how it's worth it for the teams remains.
But keep in mind that this won't be MPH which had to make a profit from their sanction fees any longer. This will be OWRS who are probably looking to return to the CART of old: basically a break-even association of racing businessmen that served to provide other business opportunities to it's members.
The one thing that bugged me was the notion that CART needed to get out of F1 country? That must be more of Pookey butt kissing to his lover Bernie.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's just the opposite...nrc
All I meant was Pook has always kissed Bernie's ass and has hurt CART by doing so. Pook has always called CART F1's feeder series. It's the moving on point to the top....F1. I've never bought that. He always confides in Bernie before doing anything and would never want to piss Bernie off. Bernie has never been a fan of CART and is not CART's friend. I never liked Pook and Bernie's "relationship". In the end Europe wasn't bad but I don't think they peaked at what could have been a great potential success. Everything is tied to what's good business. It's so old. Just race! Who knows what kind of "business" will Korea create? Never know until you do it.
Treeface
10-25-03, 03:39 PM
Old sponsor new location. CART (and F1) are chasing the tobacco money into more friendly regulatory environments.
``BAT Korea will continue to exert every effort to help the Korean motor racing community to grow to meet the international standard that everyone will be proud of"
Blah blah blah. Selling smokes is what it's all about. 8th largest market worldwide. Dunhills are selling like crazy. (http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/biz/200308/kt2003082814515211880.htm) I bet Gerry's kids get to carry the colors.
Originally posted by stools
I think it's just the opposite...nrc
So we disagree, but do you really think Pook still has a say in the schedule?
Originally posted by nrc
So we disagree, but do you really think Pook still has a say in the schedule?
No Pooky is lame duck as he should be. He wants no part of CART. Most of the people I hear or talk too don't want him to be anymore anyway.That wasn't my point, it was merely Bernie and Pooky have a sickening kiss ass partership and CART is never on the winning end of any of the scenarios. On the contrary, Pook in the past had CART going to China, Indonesia, the moon, etc. So he could have laid the groundwork for it. He's influential and travelled the world selling in the name of CART.
Originally posted by stools
No Pooky is lame duck as he should be. He wants no part of CART.
I dunno, he may be happy to perform certain consulting duties...
http://www.cart.com/Content/Photos/2003/By400/20031024P_0055.jpg
Most of the people I hear or talk too don't want him to be anymore anyway. That wasn't my point, it was merely Bernie and Pooky have a sickening kiss ass partership and CART is never on the winning end of any of the scenarios.
Pook may have made a poor choice of words when he said "feeder" (a mistake he later corrected), but he had a realistic view of CART's relationship to F1, at least in the marketplace. I would much rather the series understand their niche than come out with something like the idiot grandson's "we're gonna be bigger than God" rhetoric.
Even Forsythe spoke positively of Bernie's potential involvement in CART at one point. I don't think that Pook and Forsythe are all that far apart. They were placed at odds because Forsythe lost the shareholder/boardroom battle that put Pook in place. Pook just played the cards that he was dealt and it has ultimately played into Forsythe's hands.
If Pook wants to go sailing off into the sunset, I'm sure he can do so very happily. We owe him a debt for saving a series that was declared dead over a year ago. But I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up playing a role in Long Beach, Denver, St. Pete and/or Miami.
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