View Full Version : Andretti/Cadillac F1 team
Whoa!
ANDRETTI AND GM
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2023/01/05/andretti-and-gm/
Two Icons.
One Pursuit.
https://andretti-global.com/
So what next?
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2023/01/05/so-what-next/
pfc_m_drake
01-05-23, 05:06 PM
I'll believe it when I see it.
But I do wish them well and I look forward to being proven wrong!
opinionated ow
01-06-23, 05:33 AM
So it's a proposed title sponsorship of a Renault powered car. Interesting.
nissan gtp
01-06-23, 11:21 AM
So it's a proposed title sponsorship of a Renault powered car. Interesting.
I've seen rumors (Autosport) that the re-badge tie-in is with Honda
https://www.grandprix.com/news/honda-set-to-supply-andretti-cadillac-engines.html
opinionated ow
01-07-23, 03:31 AM
I read an article with a denial by Honda and affirmation that it was pretty much guaranteed to be Renault/Alpine. Buggered if I can find the link now though
I read an article with a denial by Honda and affirmation that it was pretty much guaranteed to be Renault/Alpine. Buggered if I can find the link now though
Just did a Google and there were plenty from Feb - Apr 2022 but I can’t find a current one. However I’ve read forum postings to that effect, that Renault would provide power unit. :confused:
pfc_m_drake
01-07-23, 10:56 AM
Just did a Google and there were plenty from Feb - Apr 2022 but I can’t find a current one. However I’ve read forum postings to that effect, that Renault would provide power unit. :confused:I've seen a YouTube video or two over the past week also claiming it would be the Renault that would be badged Cadillac. Now, the reality is that those YouTube video makers may not know anymore than we do,
There is an article on AutoRacing 1 that speculates that Ilmor may become involved.
TravelGal
01-07-23, 04:48 PM
Renault that would be badged Cadillac.
:eek:
nissan gtp
01-07-23, 09:48 PM
There is an article on AutoRacing 1 that speculates that Ilmor may become involved.
that makes some sense, with the GM tie-in. But I don’t think they’ve ever done an F1 engine, er, “power unit”
On the other hand, considering how fickle Honda is about F1 over the years who would want to throw in with them.
pfc_m_drake
01-08-23, 06:17 PM
On the other hand, considering how fickle Honda is about F1 over the years who would want to throw in with them.
Agreed.
BUT
I think much of Honda's fickleness has been related to costs. Here you have a 3rd party (Cadillac) that's doing nothing other than cutting you a check. So in some sense it's a match made in heaven.
That said, I still have my face of doubt on.
We'll see.
Why F1 and teams are still not impressed by Andretti’s entry plans (https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why-f1-and-teams-are-still-not-impressed-by-andrettis-new-team-plans/10418569/)
Sources have indicated that rival teams and F1 itself have not been impressed by the way that Andretti has so publicly gone about trying to get support for his own entry, and been quite aggressive in his politicking in public and privately among paddock figures.
While other serious potential entrants have kept a low profile and done their bidding in private, Andretti has spoken in public about his ambitions many times – even holding a press conference to notify his expression of interest.
Rivals feel that there has been too much lobbying at play, and Motorsport.com understands that Andretti’s efforts to get a letter of support for his entry signed by all teams at last year’s Miami Grand Prix did not go down well.
it appears that the Honda element is a red herring and that such a tie-up is not being considered.
POPPYCOCK!
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2023/01/10/poppycock/
Michael Andretti Sounds Off On Formula One Pushback; Remains Optimistic He Checked All The Boxes For F1 Bid
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucemartin/2023/01/10/michael-andretti-sounds-off-on-formula-one-pushback-remains-optimistic-he-checked-all-the-boxes-for-f1-bid/?sh=4da4508e232e
pfc_m_drake
01-11-23, 05:39 AM
Michael Andretti Sounds Off On Formula One Pushback; Remains Optimistic He Checked All The Boxes For F1 Bid
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucemartin/2023/01/10/michael-andretti-sounds-off-on-formula-one-pushback-remains-optimistic-he-checked-all-the-boxes-for-f1-bid/?sh=4da4508e232e
He definitely checked all the boxes. Seems obvious at this point the issue isn't with the FIA or ownership, but with the teams. Interesting to see how it plays out.
WickerBill
01-11-23, 08:40 AM
Note for context: Grew up idolizing Mario and Michael. I'd love to see Mario's name (his "brand") live on in F1.
Michael is no Mario. He is a clunky businessman, he doesn't present well, he doesn't know how to "oil his way around the room", as it were. That our highbrow friends in F1 find him gauche and don't particularly want to have him around is not surprising to me. Anyone who enters F1 as an 11th or 12th team is going to be viewed as either a threat to the funding pool or a threat to the pecking order (or both). Michael adds to that threat a loud, ungraceful presence.
NSFW but as funny as anything I’ve seen in a while
https://www.reddit.com/r/formuladank/comments/10783eb/andretti_and_cadillac_joining_f1_i_know_it_is_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
pfc_m_drake
01-11-23, 07:20 PM
Note for context: Grew up idolizing Mario and Michael. I'd love to see Mario's name (his "brand") live on in F1.
Michael is no Mario. He is a clunky businessman, he doesn't present well, he doesn't know how to "oil his way around the room", as it were. That our highbrow friends in F1 find him gauche and don't particularly want to have him around is not surprising to me. Anyone who enters F1 as an 11th or 12th team is going to be viewed as either a threat to the funding pool or a threat to the pecking order (or both). Michael adds to that threat a loud, ungraceful presence.
Good comments. And I certainly don't disagree. You would hope that the 'rising tide lifts all boats' argument would be enough to convince the teams...despite Michael's....ruggedness...but obviously short-term-income is out weighing long-term-gains in this case.
pfc_m_drake
01-12-23, 06:31 AM
Chris Medland read WB's post I think and echos some of the same sentiments.
Embedded Link (https://racer.com/2023/01/11/opinion-andretti-might-be-his-own-biggest-f1-roadblock/?utm_source=RACER+%2F%2F+Newsletter&utm_campaign=ced4df1a18-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2023_01_11_10_12&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-ced4df1a18-%5BLIST_EMAIL_ID%5D) because it's a really long URL
I would say we'll have a new generation of "Michael Andretti almost ran me over on his scooter" posts - but paddock access isn't quite the same there in F1. :D
He has zero likeability. He has no charm or charisma. He also lacks the evil empire swagger that could also work in F1.
Maybe he stays locked away and lets Dad do the talking and media stuff.
TravelGal
01-12-23, 01:15 PM
Agreed. Mikey has all the finesse of the Michelin Man and none of the sweetness of the Pillsbury Doughboy. He's never learned to wear his sweater half tied around his neck like Toto Wolff so he'll never be accepted.
Domenicali criticises Andretti ‘shouting and pushing the system’ to get into F1 (https://www.racefans.net/2023/02/11/domenicali-criticises-andretti-shouting-and-pushing-the-system-to-get-into-f1/)
TravelGal
02-13-23, 09:47 PM
Domenicali criticises Andretti ‘shouting and pushing the system’ to get into F1 (https://www.racefans.net/2023/02/11/domenicali-criticises-andretti-shouting-and-pushing-the-system-to-get-into-f1/)
He says, "very welcoming of everyone that is bringing value to the racing” And in goes the stiletto. Honestly, the more I read of this and the Las Vegas race plans, plus the Verstappen win at Abu Dhabi two years ago, the less inclined I am to watch the series at all. I'll still join the chats but there might be better ways I can use my time than DVRing the races. :irked:
Was rumored to be for sale and Mikey was a potential buyer...
https://i.redd.it/wby7tbjs14la1.jpg
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2023/05/31/green-notebook-from-latour-de-france/
Elsewhere, it seems there are six bids lodged for the two available new F1 entries for 2026, but it is unclear whether of those have put down the non-refundable $300,000 fee that is required to cover all due diligence checks.
One would think that this would dissuade all but the most serious bidders, and the word is that of those involved, some have not paid up, arguing that they should be allowed in because of the benefits that their projects will bring to the sport. Good luck with that argument…
There are the known bid from Andretti, Hitech Grand Prix, LKY Sunz and Formula Equal. The other two are more mysterious projects: one of them involving Rodin Carlin, the highly-successful operation is these days owned by Australian billionaire David Dicker, who is a technology type. He has big ambitions and even seems to be convinced that he can can do his own power unit. This might rule him out on the grounds of sanity. The other bidder is something called Project 21, which the regular teams report have hired a few people. There are still some doubts about whether anyone will be accepted and the impression is that the only thing that will will open the door is a solid solid commitment for a engine programme from a manufacturer. I am sure that if any of these had written confirmation of new manufacturer-backed engines, the entry will happen. I hear that F1 is mindful of the fact that there might be other manufacturers willing to come into F1 in mid-term and that i is probably best to wait and see if any manufacturers appear – just in case.
TravelGal
06-01-23, 12:14 AM
"This might rule him out on the grounds of sanity."
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Competition
https://twitter.com/formularacers_/status/1673290072798396416?s=20
In other news...
Reynolds, McElhenney join group investing in Alpine F1 team (https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/37916753/reynolds-mcelhenney-join-group-investing-alpine-f1-team)
Hollywood actors Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney are joining Otro Capital and RedBird Capital Partners in an investor group taking a 24% equity stake in Alpine Racing, the Formula One team's parent company, Renault, announced Monday.
The €200 million ($218.10 million) deal values British-based Alpine Racing at around $900 million following the investment.
Why Andretti’s climb to F1 just got steeper (https://racer.com/2023/06/28/why-andrettis-climb-to-f1-just-got-steeper/)
TravelGal
06-29-23, 11:54 AM
Why Andretti’s climb to F1 just got steeper (https://racer.com/2023/06/28/why-andrettis-climb-to-f1-just-got-steeper/)
I'm rolling my eyes. "High standards" indeed. A wonderful piece of corporate-speak although I did appreciate the recap of the timeline.
FIA wonders how it can deny General Motors a spot on Formula One grid, president tells AP (https://apnews.com/article/f1-andretti-expansion-sulayem-general-motors-d34efb8f46a261a56cf111b0ab08ac9c)
The FIA has received “more than five” expressions of interest from teams interested in joining Formula One, the president of the governing body told The Associated Press on Wednesday, with a decision on expansion expected by the end of the month.
The bid that stands out most to Mohammed Ben Sulayem is from Andretti Global and General Motors — a supportive sign that Michael Andretti may indeed get the F1 team he’s been chasing for more than two years.
GREEN NOTEBOOK FROM PRATT’S BOTTOM (https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2023/07/07/green-notebook-from-pratts-bottom/)
Scuderia Alpha Tauri has now joined that group as Red Bull has revealed plans to make big changes with plans for a new bigger British facility to replace the ancient Bicester factory and wind tunnel. The team will share Red Bull’s yet-to-built windtunnel in Milton Keynes and so it is logical for the new facility to be in the Silverstone area, halfway between Bicester and Milton Keynes… The Silverstone area is, of course, under intense development at the moment with the new Aston Martin factory and facilities being used by Hitech Grand Prix and Andretti, although it is not certain that either will get an entry. The rumours are that GM will one day get serious about F1 with an existing team, rther than risking going with the Andretti project, which may not get an entry. That is up to the FIA to decide in the weeks ahead although teams must also convince the Formula One group to let them join the party. That is bubbling story…
Andretti regrets F1 'greed' comment – 2026 Cadillac engine 'possible'
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/andretti-regrets-f1-greed-comment-2026-cadillac-engine-possible/
Michael Andretti says he now regrets describing other F1 teams as greedy for opposing his application to join the grid, ahead of a decision on prospective new entries expected this month.
The bid from Andretti’s legendary American outfit, backed by Cadillac, was met with hostility from several existing constructors. They are reluctant to share prize money and believe the $200m entry fee is now not high enough, given a steep rise in team values.
Earlier this year, Andretti struck back by labelling the teams’ approach as “very greedy”, a move which F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali described as “not smart”.
If Cadillac/GM wants in F1 bad enough, would they align with someone else?
nissan gtp
07-14-23, 03:51 PM
Andretti regrets F1 'greed' comment – 2026 Cadillac engine 'possible'
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/andretti-regrets-f1-greed-comment-2026-cadillac-engine-possible/
If Cadillac/GM wants in F1 bad enough, would they align with someone else?
They could buy Audi :D
Several applicants went through the FIA's tender process and it is believed two of them may now have been told by the Paris-based federation that they meet the criteria.
It looks like Andretti and Hitech will get the seal of approval from the FIA, Auto Motor und Sport correspondent Michael Schmidt said.
They are both in a position to enter Formula 1 in terms of technology, personnel and finances, he added.
Source (https://www.grandprix.com/news/fia-to-show-green-light-to-two-new-f1-teams.html)
Zapata AI, an Industrial Generative AI Software Company, to Go Public Through Business Combination with Andretti Acquisition Corp.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230905571509/en/
Can’t spell Andretti without AI
TravelGal
09-07-23, 09:04 AM
Source (https://www.grandprix.com/news/fia-to-show-green-light-to-two-new-f1-teams.html)
"It looks like Andretti and Hitech will get the seal of approval from the FIA, Auto Motor und Sport correspondent Michael Schmidt said."
This must be the reason they changed their name from Andretti Autosport to Andretti Global. Positioning themselves for the future.
Mikey has competition.
With deep pockets
https://x.com/a_s12/status/1704990356956238281?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg
FIA to reject three applications for new F1 teams (https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-to-reject-three-applications-for-new-f1-teams/10523782/)
The FIA is expected to reject applications from three of the four prospective new Formula 1 teams, with Andretti Global's effort understood to be the sole remaining bidder.
Then there’s this
This brings us to the French squad which is busy trying to get its rivals to agree to some form of engine equalisation programme for next year. This would help to make Alpine more competitive, but in F1 such things are rarely given away and there may need to be a quid pro quo for this to happen.
This makes a rumour in Singapore more interesting as the word is that the delays in announcing that the FIA is willing to accept Andretti as an entrant in 2025 or 2026 might involve something slightly more than bureaucracy. The other candidate teams have been told to go fly kites instead of racing in F1, but nothing is being said about Andretti. The little birds in the paddock at Marina Bay were saying that Andretti no longer has a valid Renault engine deal. From what I hear no deal has been terminated, but one might have lapsed and has not been renewed. Renault has had a clean out of staff (and perhaps ideas as well) and Andretti may no longer fit. It is quite logical for Renault to be more worried about doing better itself, rather than complicating matters with customers. Cynics will no doubt suggest that Renault might think that an upgrade to its engine is worth more than a possible customer deal.
That might not seem wise given that Andretti seems to have a dugout full of lawyers who think that the team is being kept out of F1 because it is American – which makes no sense at all. It is far more likely that the opposition is because of the team’s recent record of success and because the extravagant plans sound to F1 folk like a Titanic speeding towards an iceberg, seeing only polar bears ahead.
I don’t see any real legal argument that would work and there is no truth at all in the stories that the team can compete without prize money because in order to race, you need an entry. To get an entry you need agreement of FOM and the FIA. To get approval you need to have a convincing project… If there is no engine deal, the team cannot get an entry, because otherwise all the other candidates will sue the federation for allowing an unworkable project through and rejecting them. And everyone may also ask why did this little glitch not come to light during the due diligence process.
FIA President Mohammed ben Sulayem does not want to be seen as blocking a litigious new non-European team, but if the team is impractical (and some would argue that the fact that it is non-European is the biggest problem), then one should question the wisdom of asking for prospective entrants. One might even say that it is a bit like digging a deep hole and then walking into it… It looks like the President and his sidekicks will need to do a fair bit of digging to get out of the mess that they have created. Still, it keeps us scribes busy.
If a team does not have an entry, it cannot force an engine manufacturer to agree to a supply deal. Time is running out for 2025 and if Andretti gets a deal for 2026 it will mean different terms under a new Concorde Agreement, all of which points to the same logic: buying an existing team is still a much better idea than trying to start a new one. Some would say that this has always been the case. OK, no-one is selling but, you never know: Audi might decide to pull the plug on its F1 plans now that new management is in place there; Lawrence Stroll might decide that he’s had enough if his boy cannot win a World Championship; those behind McLaren and Williams might think linking up with Andretti’s money is a good idea. Perhaps Gene Haas might wake up one morning and not love F1 any longer.
If Andretti wants to go down the legal route, good luck to him. That is the American way, but he’s not going win friends and influence people in F1 with lawsuits. These will be costly and long and it would be better perhaps to concentrate on his multiple other projects (another reason that F1 worries about his bid) than trying to kick open the door to F1. It would probably help if Andretti could do better than 10th in the IndyCar Series as well.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2023/09/20/green-notebook-from-bugis/
The above was published on Wed. Does the recent news of FIA reflecting the other three mean he has Renault engines after all?
nissan gtp
09-30-23, 01:09 PM
Then there’s this
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2023/09/20/green-notebook-from-bugis/
The above was published on Wed. Does the recent news of FIA reflecting the other three mean he has Renault engines after all?
On the other hand, denying an entry because of no engine deal makes little sense, as the engine manufacturers are requited to provide engines (Renault in this case one would assume).
Andretti being litigious means they'll fit right in.
Almost There (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-approves-andretti-application-for-11th-f1-team-slot/10527925/)
https://x.com/radiolemans/status/1711014137877197022?s=57&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg
Andretti related? Possible Sauber purchase if Audi pulls out?
Hypocrisy over Andretti: The F1 teams waging war on 11th team entry
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/hypocrisy-over-andretti-the-f1-teams-waging-war-on-11th-team-entry/
Alpine says Andretti F1 engine option has now expired (https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alpine-says-andretti-f1-engine-option-has-now-expired/10531585/)
Options:
Negotiate a replacement contract with Alpine
Negotiate an agreement with another manufacturer
Cadillac could produce an engine
Thoughts:
Alpine hasn't been the most competitive, so maybe this is a blessing.
Being sponsored by Cadillac may cause other manufacturers to not want the association or vice versa
Cadillac manufacturing a competitive engine would be a certain failure, for the near term.
Pilgrims Drop
10-12-23, 10:29 PM
Alpine says Andretti F1 engine option has now expired (https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alpine-says-andretti-f1-engine-option-has-now-expired/10531585/)
Options:
Negotiate a replacement contract with Alpine
Negotiate an agreement with another manufacturer
Cadillac could produce an engine
I'll join in the fun :)
Best option. Alpine hasn't the most stellar history in this latest turbo era but their engine is reliable and is there powerwise since the engine freeze. Currently has no customer teams if my memory serves due to their past troubles...
Merc are pretty busy as is although adding another team should be possible. Ferrari is less probable due to Haas and Honda/RBPT is a none starter
Design their own engine... Hahahahahahahahahahahaha... They need 2 configurations as they're entering in 2025 and the rules change come in 2026. Even if GM were to commit to design for 2026 they're 2 years behind the other manufacturers with no experience whatsoever.
GREEN NOTEBOOK FROM THE GENEVA MOTOR SHOW (https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2023/10/11/green-notebook-from-the-geneva-motor-show/)
The Andretti issue is a problem. Ben Sulayem launched an entry process in February. No-one in F1 was keen on the idea. Yes, there is room in the regulations for two more teams but as Williams F1’s James Vowles eloquently explained in one of the Press Conferences in Doha, a lot of teams are still not fully stable and still need more investment and it would be wiser to wait until they have had time to catch up before introducing any more squads which will reduce the pot of prize money and are very unlikely to be competitive for years to come. This is a very sound assessment of the situation. It is not that new teams are inherently a bad idea, it is just not the right time to be doing it. One can argue that perhaps there never will be a good time, but let us not forget when we look back at collapsing F1 teams that the most recent was not the collapse of Manor at the end of 2016, it was actually in August 2018 when Racing Point bought the assets of the Force India. In that case, everyone turned a blind eye to the fact that this broke the commercial agreements because Racing Point had a new company number and that meant that it was actually a new team but was allowed to get away with it because the previous team was in such a mess that the only other option was to lose what was essentially a decent operation, despite the financial mes created by its owners. It was a lucky break for Lawrence Stroll, who picked up a valuable asset, but it was a good lesson in how F1 teams can still go wrong, despite the budget cap.
All the F1 teams and the Formula 1 group are of the opinion that adding another team is a bad idea, even if some of them will say lukewarm things on the record, to avoid controversy. They are all dead set against it. They have no official voice in the process, however, although they are allowed to have an opinion.
Some American fans seem to think that this is all some anti-American conspiracy, but it is completely illogical to think that way. F1 is an American company, traded on the New York Stock Exchange, and the people at Liberty Media in Englewood, Colorado, (where there is a statute of a large American eagle outside the headquarters) call the shots. I am quite sure that they would be over the moon to have a competitive US team or driver, but I do not think they are interested in having US team for the sake of it. They already have Haas, which has not been sensational, although it has survived in F1 longer than any other American F1 team. It is in its eighth season in F1 and has competed in 161 Grands Prix. This means it has done far more than Shadow (1973-1980), Penske (1974-1976), Eagle (1966-1968), Parnelli (1974-1976), FORCE (1985-1986) and Scarab (1960). Admittedly, Penske and Eagle each won a race, but things were very different in those days.
So why is Liberty Media opposed to having Andretti? Could it be that they do not think that the name will add much value to the sport and that there is a distinct possibility that it will be an embarrassing failure. That would be bad for F1. Most people in the F1 circus who know what they are talking about think the Andretti is underestimating the challenge. Michael underestimated what it took to be an F1 driver, when he tried 30 years ago and it did not end well.
The whole process could have been avoided had it not been for the FIA President deciding to open a process back at the start of the year. It did not need to happen because up to that point investors were still buying teams. Andretti himself came close to signing a contract to buy Sauber but was then shown the door. Why? We don’t really know, but at the time there were stories that the owner was not keen on some of Michael’s demands as part of the sale. Maybe Fin Rausing just got a better offer from Audi and took that deal instead.
There was one interesting thing in the FIA press release the other day regarding Andretti. It said that the FIA was “obliged” to approve the Andretti application because it complied with the requirements. When I read that, alarm bells and flashing lights reading “Lawyers!” went off in my head. But, at the end of the day, the FIA has only itself to blame because it opened up the process. Could it be that the FIA dug a big hole and then walked straight into it?
There is evidence to back this up in the same statement which said that “in taking that decision, the FIA is acting in accordance with EU directives on motor sport”.
We know that F1 has some rights relating to the acceptance of entries but we do not know what these are. The FIA and F1 both makes a big thing about transparency, but the process by which an entry is accepted is unclear because the rights of the various parties involved are part of the F1 commercial agreements and thus confidential. What I have managed to glean is that while F1 does not have a veto, it does have to give assent but it is not clear what an applicant has to do to get this assent. Competition law is wildly complex but one key element is whether or not the arrangements harm the consumer. It is hard to argue that a new F1 team will benefit the consumer and, equally, that the lack of a new team will cause any harm. If the teams have no official say in the process, one cannot argue that they constitute a cartel.
The F1 group responded to the FIA announcement by saying that it would conduct its own assessment of the merits of Andretti.
I was curious to see Andretti referring to itself as Andretti Cadillac as the team does not currently have an engine deal with anyone, as Alpine is no longer keen to be involved. If Andretti is granted an entry, it has the right to call upon a manufacturer to supply an engine, but in that case Renault does not have to agree to anything more than a white-badged engine and it does not have to give Andretti the right to use the Cadillac name. Cadillac could sponsor the car, but the engine would not be a Cadillac. The new team does not have the right to demand a transmission system and would have to build one of its own. That takes a lot of time and a lot of money.
I suppose that if the entry is for 2026, Cadillac could do a deal with Honda to get an engine without needing to design and build one and be allowed to badge it as a Cadillac. Honda might (only might) agree to that - because of a much bigger alliance with GM to work together on electric cars. This might work and I guess that Cadillac could buy Honda IP (if it was available) in much the same way as Red Bull Powertrains has done with the current World Championship-winning engines. Cadillac might then develop its own F1 programme over time, but that still leads to the strategic question: why, if you understood F1, would you choose Andretti over an established F1 team, which would provide a benchmark for chassis performance.
The other things which I think count against Andretti is the belief that one can build competitive F1 cars in the United States. There may be the technology you need but the kind of expertise required (ie the people) is in Europe. At the moment Andretti has some good people working at a facility at Silverstone but continues to say that it will manufacture the cars in the US. Perhaps that is just marketing hyperbole, but it will count against the team in the decision-making process.
The other question I would have is about focus, because F1 teams do well when there is total focus. McLaren and Ferrari run teams in other championships but they are both car manufacturers. Andretti is not. It runs cars in all manner of championships - or at least puts the name to them. The core business in IndyCar is not very impressive nowadays. The best Andretti driver finished only 10th in this year’s series. This is hardly excellent. It has not won the championship for more than a decade and has not won the Indy 500 since 2017.
Anyway, we will see what happens but there is little doubt that the Andretti problem is seen in F1 as having been caused by the FIA.
Why Andretti F1 hopes are not over, even if FOM says no (https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why-andretti-f1-hopes-are-not-over-even-if-fom-says-no/10534205/)
“And let’s not play a game here: it is about the money.”
https://x.com/jennafryer/status/1715420065871339700?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg
No testing limits if you aren’t inside the tent. Smart move.
https://x.com/a_s12/status/1716872826018541617?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg
:eek::laugh:
Column: F1 bosses say Andretti snub isn’t personal even though it feels like and looks like a grudge (https://apnews.com/article/andretti-f1-liberty-fia-expansion-grudge-f9245cdac60a2d4811bf7d7b3cb22a61)
Re-read the first page of this thread as to possibly some insight why he is being ghosted/shunned/spurned etc.
He isn't the most likable guy, confirmed.
devilmaster
10-25-23, 02:09 PM
https://x.com/a_s12/status/1716872826018541617?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg
:eek::laugh:
To be fair, even if Andretti was ultimately loved by everyone, I'm sure that all teams would try and take GM from him.
Stroll Says F1 Has Never Been Better, Doesn’t Need Andretti (https://www.thedrive.com/news/stroll-says-f1-has-never-been-better-doesnt-need-andretti?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_content=deals&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social)
On the other hand Lawrence, your son will finally have an entry he can beat.
Michael Andretti Plans to Finally Conquer F1 (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2023-11-01/michael-andretti-plans-to-finally-conquer-f1-video)
Pilgrims Drop
11-03-23, 09:28 AM
First of all, they think that we're a bunch of hillbillies over here. And we don't know what we're doing.
We [have] got to build our own car, right. And if you saw how big of a deal [it is]...I mean, it's a big, big undertaking. There are documents, and it is probably I don't know, 500 pages of stuff.
:saywhat:
Autosport - Andretti - f1 teams think we're a bunch of hillbillies/10541610/ (https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/andretti-f1-teams-think-we-are-a-bunch-of-hillbillies/10541610/)
General Motors tells AP it is only interested in entering Formula One with Andretti Global
https://apnews.com/article/f1-andretti-general-motors-fia-expansion-las-vegas-00f4b0699326fa0330051f95e7c70ef4
F1 News: General Motors Confirms Powertrain Partnership With Andretti Cadillac For 2028
https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/f1-news-general-motors-confirms-powertrain-partnership-with-andretti-cadillac-for-2028
Through Cadillac, GM is looking to enter the F1 arena as a powertrain supplier in 2028. This comes at the same time as the brand trying to enter the sport as the 11th team on the grid, which the FIA has currently accepted. Now, the future of the team lies in the lap of the FOM.
https://x.com/jennafryer/status/1724485265811783688?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg
And then there’s this
https://x.com/ben_sulayem/status/1724439909711196475?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg
https://x.com/michaelandretti/status/1724494291064521079?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg
stroker
11-15-23, 09:07 AM
Mikey must have incriminating photos of a whole bunch of GM execs...
devilmaster
11-17-23, 05:17 PM
First of all, they think that we're a bunch of hillbillies over here. And we don't know what we're doing.
They did get shocked and surprised by las vegas weather at midnight......:irked:
Bobby Rahal Says F1 Cold Shoulder To Andretti Cadillac Bid Is An Insult To Mario (https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a46146662/bobby-rahal-f1-cold-shoulder-insult-to-mario-andretti/)
https://www.skysports.com/f1/live-blog/30125/13023502/formula-1-q-a-sky-sports-f1-expert-martin-brundle-answers-your-questions-on-the-2023-season-and-future
6 Dec 09:36
Bill Breeze
What is your opinion on the hurdles that Andretti Motorsport have had to jump through to get into F1 and is it fair?
Sky Sports F1's Martin Brundle:
With my TV cap on and my F1 fan cap on, I'd like to see another team and two more cars and drivers on the grid.
Andretti is a great name, but on the other side of the coin, they've never really built their own car, they haven't really dominated IndyCar in recent years, or any of the other categories.
So it's not given that just because it's called Andretti, it'll be competitive
I can understand why Formula 1 and the other teams are going, ‘hang on a minute. F1 is in a very good place now, you can't just join this club when we've gone through the years and the decades of losing money and putting lots of capital expenditure and huge amounts of budget into all this.’
So I get it all. I think you have to look at it and say it's team A from America. Can they put together a credible competition on the grid, and what do they bring to F1? I think you have to lose the emotion of the Andretti name, and take a rational decision. But I would like to see more cars on the grid.
An economic downturn, or a hissy fit or two by a sponsor or owner, and they could easily lose a couple teams. I wouldn't be turning down anyone if they meet the economic criteria. A bit arrogant of F1 I'd say to be so exclusive.
F1 SAYS NO TO ANDRETTI (https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2024/01/31/f1-says-no-to-andretti/)
https://x.com/A_S12/status/1752717604400013534?s=20
https://www.autoracing1.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/f1/misc/andretti-rejection.jpg
https://x.com/fastestpitstop/status/1752726348018196816?s=46&t=FtBbY0VGTU6tkFPNjgS-pg
So, if Caddy joins NOW, with someone else's engine, and starts work on an in-house motor, (sorry, PU), then they would be LESS competitive than if they just worked on a car and PU in a bubble for 3 years, then showed up as a spanking new team in 2028??
It would NEVER happen, but it would be glorious if Miami, COTA, VEGAS, all had "unexpected track safety issues" right before quallies next year. Burst watermain here, collapsing tunnel there...
Al Czervik
02-02-24, 02:42 PM
So, if Caddy joins NOW, with someone else's engine, and starts work on an in-house motor, (sorry, PU), then they would be LESS competitive than if they just worked on a car and PU in a bubble for 3 years, then showed up as a spanking new team in 2028??
It would NEVER happen, but it would be glorious if Miami, COTA, VEGAS, all had "unexpected track safety issues" right before quallies next year. Burst watermain here, collapsing tunnel there...
How about a nice import duty on single seat gasoline burning race cars with 1.5 liter V-6's?
Not that I'm a huge fan of Mikey, and realizing the likelihood of GM staying in F1 for more than 3-5 years is somewhere between nil and 0%. The whole 'approval' process seems......unsavory.
TravelGal
02-02-24, 02:55 PM
Well, SteveH, let's remember that old saying,"Pull up your pants; it's too late for the shoes." Besides the incredible insult about a former champion having some name recognition to the fans, I had to laugh when they said they denied him partly because he wouldn't be competitive. You mean, like half the teams on the grid now?
They did dream up some good points, as in, we really don't have room for you, and we have to admit it was a foregone conclusion, but the document you posted is laughable. I've read that Andretti was devastated but maybe they also did this to expose F1's feet of clay to the world.
https://www.autoracing1.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/f1/misc/andretti-statement.jpg
Andretti opens new base at Silverstone as F1 bid continues (https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/39919096/andretti-opens-new-base-silverstone-f1-bid-continues#)
optimistic?
TravelGal
04-12-24, 01:53 PM
Andretti opens new base at Silverstone as F1 bid continues (https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/39919096/andretti-opens-new-base-silverstone-f1-bid-continues#)
optimistic?
Hard to figure on this one. Lots of reasons speed through my brain.
ANDRETTI PLANNING F2 AND F3 ENTRIES TO PROMOTE US TALENT TO F1 TEAM (https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/andretti-planning-f2-f3-entries-promote-us-talent-f1-team/10597215/?fbclid=IwAR17zAYO1xrZHN_KaIZb1SZrPZPOVSITq1czdhNF 1R2hSgl2Q0aRGPk9_vw)
maybe the new building is for this
F1 seeking 10-team limit in new Concorde Agreement – report
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2024/04/13/f1-seeking-10-team-limit-in-new-concorde-agreement-report/
The 10 existing Formula 1 teams are seeking the limit of outfits allowed onto the grid to be reduced from 12 to 10 in the forthcoming Concorde Agreement, according to reports.
EXCLUSIVE: Mario Andretti On Williams' Lap of Legends, F1 Entry, Fourth US Race, And More (https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/exclusive-mario-andretti-on-williams-lap-of-legends-f1-entry-fourth-us-race-and-more-lm22)
“The FIA has put us through the ringer, if you will, for us to be able to check all the boxes and we have one more blessing that we need from the FOM but we're having a key meeting coming up and hopefully we have some positive results from that.”
Mario Andretti offended by F1 rejection. ‘If they want want blood, well, I’m ready,’ says 1978 champ
https://apnews.com/article/mario-andretti-formula-one-meeting-england-factory-90e6f412bebbd60d6516ef51cb1eb76d
“I was offended, actually. I don’t think we deserved that, to be honest with you,” Mario Andretti said Friday at the Long Beach Grand Prix. “It’s a big investment in the series, and you’d think they’d welcome that. Even the value of the series is more valuable with 11 teams than 10, so I don’t know. Tell us what is really wrong.”
https://x.com/jennafryer/status/1781825317726020045?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg
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