View Full Version : The New Face of IndyCar Racing Is Not Afraid to Bump Fenders or Heads
Napoleon
08-23-15, 06:19 AM
NY Times does a piece on Sage Karam (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/sports/autoracing/the-new-face-of-indycar-racing-is-not-afraid-to-bump-fenders-or-heads.html)
Well, Gee...guess who just "bumped" his car all to pieces...and bent JUSTIN WILSON'S head?:irked: Helicopter extraction, could be serious. I shudder to think how this one could turn out. One of MANY incidents and accidents today. NOT a good day...11 cautions...so far... RHR wins under A 12th yellow! Good for him, but...worried.
Well, Gee...guess who just "bumped" his car all to pieces...and bent JUSTIN WILSON'S head?:irked: Helicopter extraction, could be serious. I shudder to think how this one could turn out. One of MANY incidents and accidents today. NOT a good day...11 cautions...so far... RHR wins under A 12th yellow! Good for him, but...worried.
Blaming Sage for this is asinine. He was in the lead by himself in the middle of the track. Something had to break on the car the way he spun out in the clear like that.
Blaming Sage for this is asinine. He was in the lead by himself in the middle of the track. Something had to break on the car the way he spun out in the clear like that.
No...pointless to blame anyone but maybe he shouldn't have BEEN in the middle of the track at that point as THAT may have been the reason he spun in the 1st place!? I'll be surprised if it was a mechanical failure that caused his spin. The point I seem to have failed to make was more a criticism of the stupid article and the stupid guy who wrote it and the stupid follow-up he is now likely to make. The asinine part was racing there in the first place!
Hard Driver
08-23-15, 11:59 PM
Sage is Mr. Danger, as PT was calling him during the race. however, this spin was not pulling a dangerous move. Debris collisions can and could have happened a half dozen times during this race. The racing was good, but the driving was not. I think generally the guys were driving a bit stupid, the biggest stupid was the guy that took Graham Rahal out... now that was a stupid move.
Hard Driver
08-24-15, 12:03 AM
The asinine part was racing there in the first place!
I would disagree that Pocono is not a track they should race at. I think the high banks, like Fontana, should go. But Pocono is a low bank track and the driving and racing is often very good. I just don't think a lot of drivers were using their heads today, and truthfully, the track is "tricky" and the drivers are on the very edge there.
Perhaps so...but Milwaukee flat and Pocono flat are two different animals. The Mile provided great racing the Tri-angle was 12 accidents waiting to happen! "SEVEN-wide!...EIGHT-wide!?"...drop it! Leave it to CrashCar!
Andrew Longman
08-24-15, 11:58 PM
Pocono was built for open wheel cars and copies turns from three iconic open wheel tracks. It produces great open wheel racing and did again yesterday. Drivers like it and it requires driving at the limits of grip for 500 miles to go fast. Passes are earned and can require boldness. It is also unforgiving if you run out of talent. Cup cars there are a joke by comparison.
I predicted Sage was going to crash a few laps before he did because once he got the lead you could see (I'm assuming because of the closeness to his first win) he was pushing even harder and looking a bit ragged in the turns. Trevor and I commented it reminded us if Dinger at Edmonton throwing away a win.
Sage again did not make any friends but he did start in the back and was less than 10 miles from a win.
For the record I also think he acts like a punk.
In 2014, all but 4 cars finished at Pocono. 1 DNS and 3 retired for 'electrical' reasons. Not sure if there were any yellows, if so, one or two. This year, many unforced accidents. Same chassis as the year before but this year's has the doodads. Something's going on to make this big of a difference.
In 2014, all but 4 cars finished at Pocono. 1 DNS and 3 retired for 'electrical' reasons. Not sure if there were any yellows, if so, one or two. This year, many unforced accidents. Same chassis as the year before but this year's has the doodads. Something's going on to make this big of a difference.
Agreed, garbage cars, garbage racing series.
trauma1
08-25-15, 10:29 AM
Shut the league down and start a new one with competent leadership. New car and get rid of dullara
Andrew Longman
08-25-15, 04:17 PM
Something's going on to make this big of a difference.
This years cars have less downforce. Drivers over the weekend said that they could be flat out in all three corners only if the car was exactly perfect but even then it was pretty scary hard to hold the pedal down. RHR described his right foot trembling through T1.
I thought that was the hard to drive fast car we wanted. It is horrible what happened to Justin but Sage's spin from the lead while pushing too hard is IMO exactly what I always loved about indy cars on a big track. Not the crap we've seen in Texas or even California (which was also built for open wheel cars).
cameraman
08-25-15, 04:48 PM
This years cars have less downforce. Drivers over the weekend said that they could be flat out in all three corners only if the car was exactly perfect but even then it was pretty scary hard to hold the pedal down. RHR described his right foot trembling through T1.
I thought that was the hard to drive fast car we wanted. It is horrible what happened to Justin but Sage's spin from the lead while pushing too hard is IMO exactly what I always loved about indy cars on a big track. Not the crap we've seen in Texas or even California (which was also built for open wheel cars).
Hard to drive yes, time bombs that crash out with no warning no.
It isn't like they get loose and you have to back out or get sent into a runoff, with this set up the car immediately swaps ends and slams you into the wall with a high probability of getting shredded in the fence.
At no point in time has that ever been on my list of things I want to see.
Andrew Longman
08-25-15, 05:35 PM
I don't want shredding either.
If they going to run on an oval there isn't going to be runoff and there will be a wall to hit. A series that had some scary fast ovals on a very varied schedule to test the skills of drivers, teams and manufacturers is what attracted me to CART and Indy style racing in the first place.
I think it has been pretty obvious I've never been an apologist for the IRL and the Indy mafia who took over the sport or for the many attempts they've made to spec a proper race car. But this car with this aero package on that track has been the closest they've come to what former CART fans have wanted.
This car seems no where near the former tail heavy, backbreaking cars. They can come loose when pushed to the limit (as they should) but don't back in at the hard angles we've seen. I think only a few of offs this weekend were complete 180+ spins and none caused more than minor injuries. Obviously Justin's injuries are horrible but they were not caused by the car or the track.
I also did not hear one driver or team complain in the least about the challenge of driving this weekend (the indycar gag order not withstanding ;) ) Rather they seemed to to enjoy it. Too bad IMO they probably will never race there again or maybe any big oval except Indy.
cameraman
08-25-15, 06:57 PM
Went in backwards, then airborne and took out 100' of fence.
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http://cdn-0.motorsport.com/static/img/mgl/4700000/4770000/4778000/4778700/4778770/s8/indycar-pocono-2015-charlie-kimball-chip-ganassi-racing-crashes.jpg
Andrew Longman
08-25-15, 08:42 PM
And by your own video it wasn't the perpendicular ass first blast that we've seen too much of from the IRL sleds. The side of the nose actually hit first. And his spin was a result of too many adjustments at once trying to salvage a qualifying lap. Marco and JPM had equally I'll handling set ups for their quals but had the talent and wisdom to keep it from spinning and off the wall and said so.
Sage's hit was much the same as Kimball's. IIRC the other wrecks on the weekend were either from contact or running too high and slapping the wall (correction: Bourdais got too high and spun but hit the wall with the left side of the car)
But it isn't really important anymore. Other than Phoenix and IMS they may not have an oval left to run on anyway.
Napoleon
08-26-15, 06:47 AM
But it isn't really important anymore. Other than Phoenix and IMS they may not have an oval left to run on anyway.
Think about that for a moment. The Indy Racing League, formed to promote good old American oval racing and oval racing drivers.
Andrew Longman
08-26-15, 10:54 AM
Yup. It is not worth the effort to look it up but I think indycar will likely run fewer ovals than CART in 1995 or in its last year.
WickerBill
08-26-15, 11:43 AM
IBJ mentions they want to consider cockpit canopies but are afraid of losing fans.
THERE ARE NO FANS. Reinvent! Take a chance!
Tifosi24
08-26-15, 12:47 PM
IBJ mentions they want to consider cockpit canopies but are afraid of losing fans.
THERE ARE NO FANS. Reinvent! Take a chance!
Yep, it's time to go another direction and think outside the box (I know, difficult for those in Hoosier Country). I personally think the "solution" from a design standpoint would be something similar to an amalgamation of an LMP and open wheel car. That way, you get the cockpit protection while still maintaining the open wheel nature of the car. Personally, adding a canopy to the current car doesn't do anything for me, if the decision is to add a canopy, it needs to be integrated as part of a new design.
cameraman
08-26-15, 01:02 PM
The stories about the first round of the FIA testing of closed cockpit designs brought up the issue of getting the drivers out of the car rapidly after a crash or fire. They did not have a system that would allow the driver to get out quickly by himself.
Strong enough to protect
Not inhibit visibility
Fast and easy to open from inside & out
Small single seat concept
Locking mechanism can't jamb due to crash damage
Extremely light weight
No one had an answer for that. When you get down to the fine details it is a very difficult engineering problem.
The stories about the first round of the FIA testing of closed cockpit designs brought up the issue of getting the drivers out of the car rapidly after a crash or fire. They did not have a system that would allow the driver to get out quickly by himself.
Strong enough to protect
Not inhibit visibility
Fast and easy to open from inside & out
Small single seat concept
Locking mechanism can't jamb due to crash damage
Extremely light weight
No one had an answer for that. When you get down to the fine details it is a very difficult engineering problem.
How did prototypes figure it out?
Or is the intrusion accident/fire tragedy looming?
Napoleon
08-26-15, 03:26 PM
How did prototypes figure it out?
It seems to me one big difference is, at least in comparison to formula cars, they have much more room inside for a driver to maneuver. In one of those cars it may be plausible to kick out a window or stick your hand out through an opening and access a handle outside the car. In a formula car none of those things are going to be options.
cameraman
08-26-15, 04:37 PM
How did prototypes figure it out?
Or is the intrusion accident/fire tragedy looming?
Size. A prototype cockpit is more than twice the size of an F1 cockpit.
I am reminded of the Adrian Newey designs, Red Bull X2010 & X2014 for the GT-5 & GT-6 video games. My guess is any IndyCar enclosed cockpit designs would/SHOULD include his input. I understand F-1 is already looking at increased cockpit safety with designs from Newey. Wouldn't hurt to build and test full-size cars with an eye to aerodynamics as well as safety. Was it Motorsport.com with his pics?...edit...yes, "F-1 Set To Carry Out Closed Cockpit Tests"
opinionated ow
08-27-15, 04:23 AM
Why not a supermodified style roll cage. If you stuck a sprintcar style rock screen in the front it would surely be nigh on impenetrable.
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