The electrical thread

[nrc]

Lately I've been replacing some switches and lighting fixtures as part of my home management system so I thought I'd start a general purpose electrical thread.

Last week we installed a radon reduction system. The electrician that wired the power for the fan in the radon system called me over to the electrical panel in the basement with a "are you ready to be scared?" He pointed out that there was aluminium corrosion on the nut holding down the main neutral feed and also some corrosion on some of the taps holding down conductors for individual breakers. He said that was probably from moisture leaking down inside the main feed line from the electric meter box. There was no visible moisture in panel, but he said that the corrosion presents a serious fire hazard.

We opened up the meter box and I could clearly see that there had been moisture inside the box. He said this was likely from a faulty seal at the top of the meter box. The feed line comes down the side of the house from the weather head to the top of the meter box and then down the wall and into the basement and panel from there, so this all make sense.

His recommendation was to replace the feed line, meter, and panel so I got a quote from him for that work. My original plan was to get another quote from a company that I've worked with and find a way to squeeze it in the budget immediately. After thinking about it and researching a little I'm not sure it's as urgent as he suggested. A poor neutral connection seems like more of a shock hazard than a fire hazard. It seems like if it were serious at this point it would be showing up as an open neutral on my circuit tester.

Thoughts on this? I don't want to take chances but if I'm not seeing actual moisture in the panel or resistance from neutral to ground I don't know that it makes sense to bust my budget to do it now instead of a few months from now.

[chop456]

If the meter box is leaking, how is that your problem?

[nrc]

If the meter box is leaking, how is that your problem?

Customers are responsible for everything starting at the weather head - including the electric meter.

[chop456]

Interesting. Looks like that varies by provider. :\

[Elmo T]

Open neutrals can cause all sorts of odd problems in the house. If there is no path back to the electric company, it will find the path of least resistance - probably something grounded.

Have you considered calling the electric company and asking them to respond (act like you don't know if it is there problem or yours). They will typically respond and provide you with the fair evaluation of the situation. Only problem would be if it IS very serious, they might want to drop the power until it is repaired.

[Tifosi24]

I agree with Elmo, I would look into contacting the electric company. I know that in Minnesota the service provider is responsible for everything to the meter, and the customer is responsible for everything inside the meter. If something faulty on the meter caused damage on your end of the "line in the sand," I think you could make a good case that the service provider should pay for it, or at least share in the cost. At a minimum, you should not be responsible for replacing the meter, that is why you have a monthly fixed charge. If the electricians conclude it is a faulty seal, and the electric company are being difficult, I would contact your state's attorney general office, utilities commission, or ratepayer advocate. You might be up a creek, but the regulators will get things done from time to time when the utility is stonewalling someone.

[Andrew Longman]

Interesting. Looks like that varies by provider. :\Yes. In my case I am responsible for everything on my side of the meter, but not the meter.

Water, however is different. While the meter is in the house I am responsible for everything from connectiont to the main in the street.

I too suggest asking the electric company. Doing nothing and hoping for the best doesn't sound wise.

[nrc]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Here's what AEP has to say about customer responsibility.

https://www.aepohio.com/info/news/ViewRelease.aspx?releaseID=1281


The weatherhead, riser pipe and meter box, together, comprise the "electric service entrance." The property owner owns the electric service entrance, and the wiring inside it, as well as the breaker or fuse box on the inside.

I'm not considering ignoring the problem, just deciding whether it's a project for three weeks or three months. I'll call a couple of A-rated electricians from Angies list to get their assessment. One of them I've had do work just a few months ago and was happy with.

[chop456]

I will not be giving AEP any of my future business.

[Elmo T]

My thought with the electric company was that they might be able to provide a non-judgmental opinion on the problem in the box - even if it isn't their hardware. I know PECO here is usually pretty good with steering homeowners in the right direction.

[dando]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Here's what AEP has to say about customer responsibility.

https://www.aepohio.com/info/news/ViewRelease.aspx?releaseID=1281



I'm not considering ignoring the problem, just deciding whether it's a project for three weeks or three months. I'll call a couple of A-rated electricians from Angies list to get their assessment. One of them I've had do work just a few months ago and was happy with.

Point is that AEP sucks canal water. Period. :saywhat:

[Tifosi24]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Here's what AEP has to say about customer responsibility.

https://www.aepohio.com/info/news/ViewRelease.aspx?releaseID=1281



I'm not considering ignoring the problem, just deciding whether it's a project for three weeks or three months. I'll call a couple of A-rated electricians from Angies list to get their assessment. One of them I've had do work just a few months ago and was happy with.

Thanks for providing the press release. That was actually a convoluted mess of a statement and still leaves me, as someone who has worked on utility service quality and tariff issues before, scratching my head. It would seem that there is a substantial difference in terms of when responsibility begins if you receive underground or above ground service.

I will preface my comments by saying that this is based on my application of Minnesota procedures, which may be completely different than Ohio's, so bare with me. The utility saying that the ratepayer owns the meter is only some semblance of the truth. The utility gets to count the plant cost associated with all it meters, and associated accounting stuff, on its books. In addition, the ratepayer is not allowed to mess around with the meter, or move it, without prior permission. So, technically you might have paid for the meter over time through rates, but the arrangement is more like a lease, because there will be periodic replacement of plant by the utility.

Also, keep in mind that the press release relates to storm damage events. I can understand the meter issue in that circumstance because there would be no way to determine how damage was caused. In your case, the damage is related to a non-storm event defect. If what AEP says is in fact the truth, then I am surprised that they don't offer some sort of insurance or protection plan at an additional cost for this sort of incident. The Coop I receive electricity from provides these sort of ancillary protections for a nominal fee.

[Tifosi24]

Point is that AEP sucks canal water. Period. :saywhat:

I would also say that your state's regulatory structure is not what it should be. Do you have consumer choice, or is your state fully regulated? By fully regulated, I mean, when you move to a new place there is just one provider and that is it (e.g., Minnesota).

[dando]

I would also say that your state's regulatory structure is not what it should be. Do you have consumer choice, or is your state fully regulated? By fully regulated, I mean, when you move to a new place there is just one provider and that is it (e.g., Minnesota).

We have the PUCO that regulates the utilities. We have natural gas options, but not electric. I signed up with a natural gas supplier many years ago, but after the first couple of years the rates went through the roof. :saywhat: We had a major debacle over faulty gas meters a few years ago, and rate increases to replace them due to corrosion issues. AEP has raised electric rates consierably after we were hit by severe storms, and they had to do major work on power lines and cutting down trees. :irked:

[nrc]

Thanks for providing the press release. That was actually a convoluted mess of a statement and still leaves me, as someone who has worked on utility service quality and tariff issues before, scratching my head. It would seem that there is a substantial difference in terms of when responsibility begins if you receive underground or above ground service.

I found some other information about AEP replacing electric meters and as I re-read that press release I notice that they're saying "meter box". My guess is that the electrician was really talking about the meter enclosure and that if a new meter is needed it will come from the electric company. He mentioned "it's only 50 bucks" so that makes sense.

[Insomniac]

It would be surprising for them to not claim ownership of the meter. You should just remove it if you don't want it. :D

[dando]

It would be surprising for them to not claim ownership of the meter. You should just remove it if you don't want it. :D

Just do what I do and run an extension cord from the neighbor's pad. :D ;)

[SurfaceUnits]

I got a 50" TV from a customer whose house was lit up when a sewer crew cut the ground wire to his house. $50 power supply board and all is fine.

[nrc]

We have the PUCO that regulates the utilities. We have natural gas options, but not electric. I signed up with a natural gas supplier many years ago, but after the first couple of years the rates went through the roof. :saywhat: We had a major debacle over faulty gas meters a few years ago, and rate increases to replace them due to corrosion issues. AEP has raised electric rates consierably after we were hit by severe storms, and they had to do major work on power lines and cutting down trees. :irked:

The pile of junk mail in my recycle bin begs to differ. Ohio has had choice on electric suppliers for a while now. They just didn't have suppliers lining up in the AEP market until prices started going up.

https://www.aepohio.com/service/choice/CustomerChoice.aspx

[Napoleon]

Ohio has had choice on electric suppliers for a while now.


For some time now utilities in Ohio have been required to "wheel" others gas, elec., etc.

[dando]

I get offers for NSG switch, but the AEP switch offers aren't coming up here in BFE. :gomer: Might be part of switching everything over to paperless billing. :confused: In any case, AEP is pure evil.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6X9KcrXHwg

[cameraman]

Well you could live in Utah where there is one electric company, one gas company, one cable company, one political party and one church....