View Full Version : Silverstone on CNBC
cameraman
06-27-13, 01:16 PM
Sunday morning at 7:30 AM eastern.
Note that it is on CNBC, not NBCSports nor NBC. The third and final channel for the season.
Practices/quals are on NBCSports.
Sunday morning at 7:30 AM eastern.
Note that it is on CNBC, not NBCSports nor NBC. The third and final channel for the season.
Practices/quals are on NBCSports.
Wimbledon (now sans Fed and Nadal). Yawn.
-Kevin
Sunday morning at 7:30 AM eastern.
Note that it is on CNBC, not NBCSports nor NBC. The third and final channel for the season.
Practices/quals are on NBCSports.
Looks like qualifying is a delayed broadcast because of live Tour de France coverage. So, make sure to check your listings first.
Looks like qualifying is a delayed broadcast because of live Tour de France coverage. So, make sure to check your listings first.
What's this Tour thing of which you speak? :gomer:
-Kevin
Looks like qualifying is a delayed broadcast because of live Tour de France coverage. So, make sure to check your listings first.
I'm watching it in Spanish (which I don't speak or understand) and following timing & scoring online.
stroker
06-29-13, 05:51 PM
Is there a rebroadcast at some point, and if so what channel is it on?
Is there a rebroadcast at some point, and if so what channel is it on?
11:30 NBCSN.
-Kevin
Forgot that NBC bailed or was or outbid by E$PN/ABC. Just dope(r)s riding on bikes instead. Maybe I can root for this to happen again:
https://twitter.com/TIM_MAYsports/st...289024/photo/1
:gomer:
-Kevin
WickerBill
06-29-13, 08:06 PM
There was no live qualifying today -- because CNBC had contractual obligations to air paid programming. :shakehead
Tyre go boom x3. Same tyre, same fashion, three different teams/cars?!? USGP redux? :saywhat:
EDIT: and now a 4th tyre?!?
-Kevin
There was no live qualifying today -- because CNBC had contractual obligations to air paid programming. :shakehead
Quals were on NBCSN @ 6am today.
-Kevin
Wow, what's going on here?
Mary
Wow, what's going on here?
Mary
Lots of finger pointing right now. I can't believe the SC wasn't called out due to the fiber all over the track. Idiots.
-Kevin
TrueBrit
06-30-13, 09:24 AM
Umm, safety car because Vettel comes up with a 'box full of neutrals? :rolleyes:
And another one done blowed up. Someone's got some 'splaining to do. :saywhat:
-Kevin
Umm, safety car because Vettel comes up with a 'box full of neutrals? :rolleyes:
Can't have him muck the S/F line, yo. :gomer: :shakehead
I think they be onto something here...instead of Elmo's idea of random sprinklers, how about random tyre explosions instead? :gomer:
-Kevin
Glad this one is over; all those exploding tires made me very nervous.
Mary
opinionated ow
06-30-13, 11:32 AM
This is the pinnacle of motorsport. If it HAS to have a control tyre, it should be so bullet proof that the tyre is nothing more than a brand name. Pirelli are progressively ruining their reputation as a manufacturer this year...
DagoFast
06-30-13, 12:52 PM
This is the pinnacle of motorsport. If it HAS to have a control tyre, it should be so bullet proof that the tyre is nothing more than a brand name. Pirelli are progressively ruining their reputation as a manufacturer this year...
You mean pretty much how the Bridgestone's used to be? You would think people would learn from history and quit meddling to "improve the show."
This is the pinnacle of motorsport. If it HAS to have a control tyre, it should be so bullet proof that the tyre is nothing more than a brand name. Pirelli are progressively ruining their reputation as a manufacturer this year...
From what I gathered, both P and the teams are culpable. If indeed the teams were offered a chance to test and refused, a pox on them as well as P.
-Kevin
cameraman
06-30-13, 04:27 PM
Umm, safety car because Vettel comes up with a 'box full of neutrals? :rolleyes:
No crane at that location, they needed a truck on the track to get the car. When have you ever seen them run trucks on the racing line without a safety car?
cameraman
06-30-13, 04:31 PM
If you are going to have a spec set of tires then there are a couple things that need to be in place:
1. The teams don't get to decide what happens.
2. The tires have to be tested. This saving money by avoiding testing at all costs is going to get someone killed.
TrueBrit
06-30-13, 08:24 PM
No crane at that location, they needed a truck on the track to get the car. When have you ever seen them run trucks on the racing line without a safety car? Wasn't on the racing line though...
WickerBill
06-30-13, 08:40 PM
That race was nuts.
- The tires
- Webber's old-school start
- Hamilton pulling away from Vettel
- Vettel not pulling away from Rosberg
- Kimi and Webber side by side in an impossible corner
- Hamilton last to 4th
- Webber 15th to 2nd
- Despite that, Matchett stepping on his own... tongue to say Alonso's 11th to 3rd was better than both
- Alonso's mustache
- Damon Hill looking older than Eddie Jordan
Insomniac
06-30-13, 08:51 PM
That race was nuts.
- The tires
- Webber's old-school start
- Hamilton pulling away from Vettel
- Vettel not pulling away from Rosberg
- Kimi and Webber side by side in an impossible corner
- Hamilton last to 4th
- Webber 15th to 2nd
- Despite that, Matchett stepping on his own... tongue to say Alonso's 11th to 3rd was better than both
- Alonso's mustache
- Damon Hill looking older than Eddie Jordan
Massa's start.
Insomniac
06-30-13, 08:54 PM
It is frightening that they can't make a tire when they have no competition. F1 should just set aside money to fund a team whose sole purpose is testing.
cameraman
06-30-13, 09:29 PM
Wasn't on the racing line though...
See where the lift is? See where the car is? See all that black stuff in between, it's called the track.
http://en.espnf1.com/PICTURES/CMS/19200/19205.jpg
cameraman
06-30-13, 09:31 PM
It is frightening that they can't make a tire when they have no competition.
When they had competition they also had testing. This is the first time that they have ever used the races as the sole testing method using the real cars.
See where the lift is? See where the car is? See all that black stuff in between, it's called the track.
See the curbs and the kitty litter? That's the racing line. YMMV.
-Kevin
TrueBrit
06-30-13, 10:22 PM
See where the lift is? See where the car is? See all that black stuff in between, it's called the track.
http://en.espnf1.com/PICTURES/CMS/19200/19205.jpg
You're right...that was the only lift on the entire track and there were no marshalls that could have pushed the car to safety under a local yellow...my mistake...
That race was nuts.
- Damon Hill looking older than Eddie Jordan
At least his hair is real.
Ted
:D
cameraman
07-01-13, 06:56 PM
So you take the curb design highlighted here:
w6rmCH6vQ9E
And you combine it with:
the teams running the tires quite under-inflated to increase their lifespan
and
a thinner sidewall design
and you have a perfect storm for shredding left rears.:saywhat:
Insomniac
07-01-13, 08:15 PM
You're right...that was the only lift on the entire track and there were no marshalls that could have pushed the car to safety under a local yellow...my mistake...
In this case, not without crossing the race track right? You have pit in right before this so they'd have to cross that to get over to the car and cross something to move it. I don't recall any time recently where they left the car on the side of the track. Now I do think they were happy to be able to deploy the SC.
TrueBrit
07-02-13, 04:10 PM
Obviously there would have been marshalls in the pitlane that would have been able to get out there and pull/push the car into the pits...my point is, why in the world would you need to go full-course caution when there was a stalled/broken car, well off the racing line on a track that bloody long?
It is just as frustrating as the ridiculous amount and length of safety car periods at Le Mans this year...there was Simonsen's horrific wreck at Tetre Rouge which had bugger-all influence of the condition of the rest of the eight and a quarter miles of the track...and yet they went full course caution...similarly here at Salivastone...Vettel's car was offline on start-finish, which had what impact on the rest of the track?
Pilgrims Drop
07-02-13, 04:49 PM
So you take the curb design highlighted here:
w6rmCH6vQ9E
And you combine it with:
the teams running the tires quite under-inflated to increase their lifespan
and
a thinner sidewall design
and you have a perfect storm for shredding left rears.:saywhat:
According to the BRDC the curbs have not changed since 2009... Gary Anderson is most liklely paid by Pirelli as he has not done anything but praise Pirelli all year
cameraman
07-02-13, 05:50 PM
Pirelli is a bit peeved.
Milan, July 2, 2013 - After exhaustive analysis of the tyres used at Silverstone, Pirelli has concluded that the causes of the failures were principally down to a combination of the following factors:
1) Rear tyres that were mounted the wrong way round: in other words, the right hand tyre being placed where the left hand one should be and vice versa, on the cars that suffered failures. The tyres supplied this year have an asymmetric structure, which means that they are not designed to be interchangeable. The sidewalls are designed in such a way to deal with specific loads on the internal and external sides of the tyre. So swapping the tyres round has an effect on how they work in certain conditions. In particular, the external part is designed to cope with the very high loads that are generated while cornering at a circuit as demanding as Silverstone, with its rapid left-hand bends and some kerbs that are particularly aggressive.
2) The use of tyre pressures that were excessively low or in any case lower than those indicated by Pirelli. Under-inflating the tyres means that the tyre is subjected to more stressful working conditions.
3) The use of extreme camber angles.
4) Kerbing that was particularly aggressive on fast corners, such as that on turn four at Silverstone, which was the scene of most of the failures. Consequently it was the left-rear tyres that were affected.
The only problems that had come to light before Silverstone were to do with delamination, which was a completely different phenomenon. To stop these delaminations Pirelli found a solution by suggesting that the teams use the tyres that were tried out in Canada from Silverstone onwards. When this proposal was not accepted, Pirelli found another solution through laboratory testing, with a different bonding process to attach the tread to the carcass. So the problem of delamination has nothing at all to do with what was seen in Great Britain.
Following the conclusions of this analysis, Pirelli would like to underline that:
1) Mounting the tyres the wrong way round is a practice that was nonetheless underestimated by everybody: above all Pirelli, which did not forbid this.
2) In the same way, under-inflation of the tyres and extreme camber settings, over which Pirelli has no control, are choices that can be dangerous under certain circumstances. Because of this, Pirelli has asked the FIA for these parameters will be a topic of accurate and future examinations. Pirelli has also asked for compliance with these rules to be checked by a dedicated delegate.
3) Pirelli would also like to underline that the 2013 tyre range does not compromise driver safety in any way if used in the correct manner, and that it meets all the safety standards requested by the FIA.
The logical conclusion is that it is essential for tyres with the performance and technical sophistication of the 2013 range to be regulated and carefully controlled by Pirelli itself. In order to ensure the optimal functioning of the tyres, the Italian firm would need real-time data from the teams regarding fundamental parameters such as pressure, temperature and camber angles. While waiting for new regulations that would permit Pirelli access to this data, vital for the development and management of these state-of-the-art tyres, the following measures are proposed for the forthcoming grands prix, in agreement with the FIA, FOM, the teams and the drivers:
1) The use of the evolution of the current tyre that was tested in Canada (and proved to be completely reliable) for the German Grand Prix this weekend. This represents the best match for the technical characteristics of the Nurburgring circuit. In particular, the rear tyres that will be used at the German Grand Prix, which takes place on July 7, have a Kevlar construction that replaces the current steel structure and the re-introduction of the 2012 belt, to ensure maximum stability and roadholding. Given that these tyres are asymmetric as well, it will be strictly forbidden to swap them round. The front tyres, by contrast, will remain unaltered.
2) From the Hungarian Grand Prix onwards, the introduction of a new range of tyres. The new tyres will have a symmetrical structure, designed to guarantee maximum safety even without access to tyre data - which however is essential for the optimal function of the more sophisticated 2013 tyres. The tyres that will be used for the Hungarian Grand Prix onwards will combine the characteristics of the 2012 tyres with the performance of the 2013 compounds. Essentially, the new tyres will have a structure, construction and belt identical to that of 2012, which ensured maximum performance and safety. The compounds will be the same as those used throughout 2013, which guaranteed faster lap times and a wider working range. This new specification, as agreed with the FIA, will be tested on-track together with the teams and their 2013 cars at Silverstone from 17-19 July in a session with the race drivers during the young driver test. These tests will contribute to the definitive development of the new range of tyres, giving teams the opportunity to carry out the appropriate set-up work on their cars.
Paul Hembery, Pirelli's motorsport director, said: "What happened at Silverstone was completely unexpected and it was the first time that anything like this has ever occurred in more than a century of Pirelli in motorsport. These incidents, which have upset us greatly, have stressed the urgency of the changes that we already suggested - which will be introduced during for free practice in Germany on Friday. We would like to acknowledge the willingness of the FIA, FOM teams, and drivers to act quickly to find an immediate solution to the problem. In particular, the adoption of winter tests, arranged with the FIA, that are more suitable for tyre development and the possibility of carrying out in-season testing will contribute to the realisation of tyres with increasingly improved standards of safety and performance. I'd like to re-emphasise the fact that the 2013 range of tyres, used in the correct way, is completely safe. What happened at Silverstone though has led us to ask for full access to real time tyre data to ensure the correct usage and development of tyres that have the sophistication we were asked to provide and extremely high performance that has lowered lap times by more than two seconds on average. While we wait for a change in the rules, we will introduce tyres that are easier to manage."
"Contrary to the impression that some people have formed, I would like to underline the collaboration and support that we are receiving from the teams, drivers, FIA and FOM. In no way are we intending to create arguments or attack anybody. We have taken our responsibilities upon ourselves as our press release indicates. But not having full control over all the elements that impact on the use of the tyres, we need everybody's contribution. With regard to this, we are receiving the full support of all the parties involved, for which we are very grateful."
Obviously there would have been marshalls in the pitlane that would have been able to get out there and pull/push the car into the pits...my point is, why in the world would you need to go full-course caution when there was a stalled/broken car, well off the racing line on a track that bloody long?
It is just as frustrating as the ridiculous amount and length of safety car periods at Le Mans this year...there was Simonsen's horrific wreck at Tetre Rouge which had bugger-all influence of the condition of the rest of the eight and a quarter miles of the track...and yet they went full course caution...similarly here at Salivastone...Vettel's car was offline on start-finish, which had what impact on the rest of the track?
I have a vauge recollection of race control leaving a car along the pit wall before. I want to say it was a white car (Brawn or a Honda BAR?) and the wall was on driver's right. My memory is the engine blew, the driver drove across the start/finish line, and parked the car tight to the pit wall near an access point the fence. It was late in the race, not sure how late, and they left the car there. It reminded me of Le Mans and seeing abandoned cars along the Mulsanne straight.
As for questioning the need to go full course caution for the Simonsen wreck...dude.
opinionated ow
07-02-13, 08:17 PM
Pirelli is a bit peeved.
On their first point...in most motorsport categories you give the tyre supplier your wheels and he fits/balances the tyres. Who's fault is it if they end up on the wrong side? Further, why would you design an assymetric tyre and not make it abundantly clear? Pirelli is pure amateur hour...
TrueBrit
07-02-13, 08:43 PM
I have a vauge recollection of race control leaving a car along the pit wall before. I want to say it was a white car (Brawn or a Honda BAR?) and the wall was on driver's right. My memory is the engine blew, the driver drove across the start/finish line, and parked the car tight to the pit wall near an access point the fence. It was late in the race, not sure how late, and they left the car there. It reminded me of Le Mans and seeing abandoned cars along the Mulsanne straight.
As for questioning the need to go full course caution for the Simonsen wreck...dude.
Simonsens wreck was at Tertre Rouge, why would they need to be yellow at Arnage FOUR MILES AWAY?
cameraman
07-02-13, 10:28 PM
Pirelli is pure amateur hour...
Pirelli made it clear to the teams that the tires were asymmetric from the very start of the season. The teams were fully aware of it from the opening test of the season. Pirelli had never tested them on backwards because why would they?
cameraman
07-02-13, 10:39 PM
Simonsens wreck was at Tertre Rouge, why would they need to be yellow at Arnage FOUR MILES AWAY?
Because they had to move repair crews and barrier parts from all around the circuit.
datachicane
07-03-13, 11:14 AM
So Pirelli's position is that there's nothing wrong with the tires, and that it's the teams' fault for not letting them run different tires which wouldn't have had this problem.
Got it.
Sort of the equivalent of "I wasn't there, I didn't do it, and nobody saw me."
opinionated ow
07-03-13, 11:41 AM
Pirelli made it clear to the teams that the tires were asymmetric from the very start of the season. The teams were fully aware of it from the opening test of the season. Pirelli had never tested them on backwards because why would they?
When we used to pick up our tyres from the supplier they put a handy little piece of texta marking on the sidewall that said LR or RR. Wasn't hard. Either Pirelli don't do that or the teams didn't know. Why would they intentionally fit them backwards?!?
I reckon you've got it right datachicane...
WickerBill
07-03-13, 12:10 PM
They fit them backward on purpose to even out tire wear (read: make them last longer).
Reference, although not very webified: http://digital.motorsportmonday.com/launch.aspx?eid=ff1cafce-73c0-401e-9d50-dc70d0a5b982&pnum=48
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