View Full Version : Sweet Jeebus
Racing Truth
10-31-12, 07:03 PM
These people ALL suck. (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/pruett-the-firing-of-indycar-ceo-randy-bernard-part-1/P1) CART, IRL, H-G board, owners, CEO's and drivers. How did these people ever lead a functioning entity?
The tire thing amuses me. "Firestone has always been in ICS. Firestone must always be in ICS." Way to think outside the box, people.:shakehead
And Loudon's Bernard's fault? Huh?
It's a well-written, though depressing piece. I still supported RB, but I can see where the other side(s) were coming from now. Probably says something, I'll admit, when multiple sides are against you.
I'm learning a lot:
* turbo-gate at Long Beach?
* Firestone-gate an issue with drivers?
* RB tweets paddock dirty laundry?
I didn't realize I had so completely tuned Indycar racing out. :)
This part also surprised me:
There was no guarantee a major crash was going to take place, or that a life would be lost, so blaming Bernard for the [Vegas] aftermath (which none of the drivers I’ve spoken with have done) would be dickish, at best.
They still won't take responsibility. Even in an article ripping the league up one side and down the other, they can't admit the Dallara was a horrible race car and that pack racing was encouraged despite the danger. To admit that would require them to admit that they knew the danger and did NOTHING to fix it.
Crap. I thought this was going to be about the fans.
I am disappoint.
They still won't take responsibility. Even in an article ripping the league up one side and down the other, they can't admit the Dallara was a horrible race car and that pack racing was encouraged despite the danger. To admit that would require them to admit that they knew the danger and did NOTHING to fix it.
If they admitted that the cars flew, that they were unsafe at any speed, etc., then they would be sued for EVERYTHING they are worth.
Five million at this point, I believe.
Racing Truth
10-31-12, 08:33 PM
I'm learning a lot:
* turbo-gate at Long Beach?
* Firestone-gate an issue with drivers?
* RB tweets paddock dirty laundry?
I didn't realize I had so completely tuned Indycar racing out. :)
This part also surprised me:
They still won't take responsibility. Even in an article ripping the league up one side and down the other, they can't admit the Dallara was a horrible race car and that pack racing was encouraged despite the danger. To admit that would require them to admit that they knew the danger and did NOTHING to fix it.
Very tangential point from the article. Bernard had nothing to do with that car. Heck, he expedited getting a new one. Me, I put most blame on Barnhart. HE should have known better.
gerhard911
10-31-12, 09:51 PM
I would suggest you change your handle to "Racing Denial" :saywhat:
So the owners now run the series.
:rofl:
Ed_Severson
10-31-12, 10:33 PM
Pretty interesting stuff from Marshall.
That's the first I'd heard about the Continental deal. If it's really as sweet a deal as Pruett leads us to believe, it's mind boggling that nobody would consider it. I mean, I like Firestone a lot, they make a great tire, but they aren't the only tire company on earth that can manage to not kill people.
The turbo inlet housing thing was such a petty fiasco, and that's coming from a Chevy team member. What ended us happening was what was agreed upon all along -- inexcusable for it not to have been documented but it was totally within the spirit of everything that had been discussed.
I would suggest you change your handle to "Racing Denial" :saywhat:
:laugh:
Racing Truth
11-01-12, 03:33 PM
Tim Tuttle of SI: Say, how about Andrew Craig for CEO? (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tim_tuttle/10/31/IndyCar-CEO/index.html?sct=rc_t12_a0)
:laugh::laugh::saywhat:
Of that list, I'll take Werner, I guess.
Racing Truth
11-01-12, 03:57 PM
Don't worry kids, 'ole Belskus has got this. (http://blogs.indystar.com/racingexpert/2012/11/01/belskus-indycar-moving-on-after-difficult-week/)
I'm reassured now.:shakehead:shakehead:laugh:
Translating this:
“I think in terms of style points, we could have done better,” he said. “I’m a hard grader; I always think I can do better.”
"Instead of awesome, it could have been super-awesome!":gomer:
TKGAngel
11-01-12, 06:01 PM
There's an interesting quote missing from that Indy Star article. (From the AP (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/belskus-indycar-moving-bullish-about-future))
Asked if there was anything that could have been done differently over the last week, Belskus said: "I wish I could have gotten more sleep."
“We’ve had a plan for 2013 for many months and we continue to execute on that plan,” he said.....“We have a schedule; we’ve announced the schedule. We’re excited about it with the double-headers, the venues and primetime television. We’re focused on strengthening the lines of communications [within the series], and with our television partners to find ways to increase promotion and awareness of our events. And we know, most importantly, the long-term success of the IndyCar Series is growing our fan base.”
This guy doesn't have a ******* clue. Clearly the series has problems, BIG ones. If you're going to take command you can't start with status quo from the idiot you fired. That's why he was fired. MorAns.
Racing Truth
11-01-12, 08:00 PM
So, three links:
The real Belskus open letter. (http://www.indycar.com/News/2012/11-November/11-1-Open-Letter-From-Jeff-Belskus)
An "alternate" open letter. (http://thef1vole.wordpress.com/2012/11/01/an-open-letter-from-deep-dive-series-hq/):thumbup:
Jenna's full wite-up. (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/belskus-indycar-moving-bullish-about-future)
It's clear to me that RB was canned primarily b/c the owners demanded it, and the H-G board never gave full support to RB. Maybe the owners were right, maybe not, but they won out here.
They still won't take responsibility. Even in an article ripping the league up one side and down the other, they can't admit the Dallara was a horrible race car and that pack racing was encouraged despite the danger. To admit that would require them to admit that they knew the danger and did NOTHING to fix it.
I admit, the only time I saw the Dallara run was in videos of Dan Wheldon's death, but IMO it wasn't "terrible" at all, rather it was the race car the series wanted; their dream come true.
Their dream turned into a nightmare.
Mary
These people ALL suck. (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/pruett-the-firing-of-indycar-ceo-randy-bernard-part-1/P1) CART, IRL, H-G board, owners, CEO's and drivers. How did these people ever lead a functioning entity?
:rolleyes:
The old CART owners didn't start the IRL just to kill their own series.
Mary
SurfaceUnits
11-02-12, 03:34 AM
Amagione what ytou could have done with 700 million dollars :tony:
Andrew Longman
11-02-12, 07:25 AM
The article points out more than anything else how stupid the dw12 is and how The stupid happened. Everyone hates it and the powers just acted on the boat anchor it is on the whole thing. Duh
Andrew Longman
11-02-12, 10:20 AM
What I am actually most amazed about is the amount of "leaks" to the press.
Leaks happen when the public cares and the internal stakes are high.
Who still gives a shat about this?
It's clear to me that RB was canned primarily b/c the owners demanded it, and the H-G board never gave full support to RB. Maybe the owners were right, maybe not, but they won out here.
You want them to be blamed. I'm reading it that they had legit concerns that Randy is/was a hilljack and they didn't want him f'n it all up. All I heard all season long was IMS' position that "we'll address this at season's end". They were stonewalling the owners and they got pizzed and now you have this mess.
Hey bro, IMS sets the rules and they changed them mid-stream and it cost the owners. IMS blew it and you know it. Randy was a likeable guy but was in way over his head, and now you got Belskus who apparently doesn't have a clue either. IMS stands to benefit from higher car/parts costs...thus they has no intention to work with the owners to lower them. How long do you expect the owners to go along with these shenanigans? A full season went by and NOTHING. And, I'd like to know where Randy got all him AOW savy to do all this...Robin Miller? Fruit don't fall far from the tree.
Place blame where it is deserved. :shakehead
More proof for ya...
“One thing that’s still glaring is that there’s no response from INDYCAR on a solution to reducing the costs of spare parts. Everybody blames Dallara; they’re taking it on the chin because they were given the right to exclusively sell the spare parts, but it’s the costs of the parts themselves and what can be done to reduce them that’s the issue at hand that INDYCAR is supposed to be taking control of and improving.
“That due diligence started at Long Beach…there’s still no answer. Randy continued to tell the owners he’ll have an answer on this date, and that date, and there’s still no answer. The aero kit thing is also a good example. We were told we’d have a definite public statement on June 1st as to what would happen with them for the future. Haven’t seen that yet…”
Taking everything written in the “SO, WHAT LED TO THE PADDOCK TURNING AGAINST BERNARD?” section from Part 1 into account, my source gave the most concise reason for Bernard’s snap firing on Sunday.
“What happened over the last few weeks is people finally talked themselves into being fed-up with Randy. And the fact that they weren’t getting any response on any level from Randy and began to go around Randy and go straight to (IMS CEO and now IndyCar CEO) Jeff Belskus. When that began to happen more and more and more, and people said they didn’t want to talk to Randy anymore and bombarded Belskus with questions, of course Jeff noticed it. There was more and more principal people going to see Jeff Belskus about TV, about the parts prices, about not including the drivers in decisions that were being made, about the Firestone/Continental Tire deal…
“Randy started treating the drivers like he did the owners—like they weren’t members of the community. If you’re a senior member of an organization and act like you don’t have respect for the other members in the organization, it’s just a matter of time before you’re gone from that organization.
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/pruett-the-firing-of-indycar-ceo-randy-bernard-part-2
Here's what had me saying, "Sweet Jeebus:"
http://twitter.com/JennaFryer/status/264156786234372096
@JennaFryer: OK, I'll say it. Tony George's plan was right. #IndyCar needs to be operated independently of HG/H&C/IMS
:eek::shakehead:tony:
cameraman
11-02-12, 01:26 PM
That takes cognitive dissonance to previously unknown heights.
:mind explosion: :shakehead
IBJ speculates more homegrown inbred madness ahead. :shakehead
Doug Boles? (http://www.ibj.com/the-score-2012-11-02-all-signs-point-to-internal-hire-to-replace-bernard-as-indycar-ceo/PARAMS/post/37693)
(thx JoeBob fer the Fryer tweet)
Napoleon
11-02-12, 02:09 PM
I have never heard of Fryer before. Any story behind her?
Ed_Severson
11-02-12, 03:30 PM
Lead motorsports journalist for the AP. Primarily does the NASCAR beat but has covered IndyCar with regularity for a few years now.
SurfaceUnits
11-03-12, 11:29 AM
I have never heard of Fryer before. Any story behind her?
They have a nice slectiuon of wall ovens too
http://www.jennair.com/flash.cmd?/#/category/c/399
What’s the plan in IndyCar? Does anybody know?
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/wcfcourier.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/91/d912840e-2316-11e2-92e8-0019bb2963f4/5090aec2e326c.preview-620.jpg
http://wcfcourier.com/sports/motor-sports/what-s-the-plan-in-indycar-does-anybody-know/article_b4133946-2316-11e2-a7ff-0019bb2963f4.html
SurfaceUnits
11-03-12, 12:41 PM
a second takeover group being formed
SurfaceUnits
11-03-12, 12:54 PM
Randy said a few weeks ago he'd noticed Belskus had suddenly become kinda cold and distant towards him and when he mentioned he was likely going to cut TGBB loose, Belskus told him that would be a mistake.
SurfaceUnits
11-03-12, 12:55 PM
Montreal told IRL - NFW
Racing Truth
11-03-12, 03:16 PM
Hoo Boy, can't believe I'm gonna type what comes next, but oh well. First,
Here's what had me saying, "Sweet Jeebus:"
http://twitter.com/JennaFryer/status/264156786234372096
:eek::shakehead:tony:
To be clear, it's implied from Jenna that it should be "sans Tony George," as she explicitly said in an earlier AP piece on the topic. With that in mind, she's 1,000% right. Now, for the self-loathing.*;)
But you know what, even w/o that caveat, I still think she's right. The H-G board simply cannot run this thing. Consider Randy. If you think RB was the wrong guy, well, who hired him? The H-G board (namely Josie, but I digress). And even then, even if canning him was the way to go, everyone agrees that the way it was done (letting 'ole Deep Dive Belskus become de facto CEO 2 months ago if Pruett's right) was comically inept by all involved. OTOH, if you think Randy was the right guy on balance, well, the Board just caved to owners.**
Either way, this whole episode (along w/ Deep Dive's response) seems to me disqualifying for the H-G board to run this sport. They haven't the slightest idea of what they're doing or how to do it. Period.
Consider then, Tony George's purported offer (via Jenna). (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/racing/10/29/george-indycar-offer-board.ap/index.html) Zak Brown as CEO & Commish? O'Driscoll running day-to-day? Why, yes, yes, I'll take that in a heartbeat right now. That's credibility (including on an int'l level) we haven't had in decades. And it smacks of competence as well.
And there's this: For whatever reasons (some personal animosity towards the family no doubt), the nature of this offer is a near-180 break from the underpinnings of the IRL, as Tony Johns points out. (http://racingpress.com/2012/11/02/unbelievably-i-stand-with-tony-george/) The whole point of the IRL (beyond ego, greed etc.) was to bring the sport under the full domain of H-G and IMS. Now, he wants (wanted) to clearly separate them. That's an utter reversal in (stated) philosophy.
Unlike Tony Johns, my opinion of TG as a person has not changed. The fact that, even now, most of the paddock likes and respects him only gives me slight pause. But it hardly matters anymore.
I woild have preferred RB stay on, with full Board support. Didn't happen. Of all the options left, the George offer was and is the least bad/most attractive. Getting the H-G board out is bordering on essential right now. I almost hate myself for going here, but yes, I now support the TG-led offer.:gomer:
*At this point a certain degree of self-loathing is required to be an OW fan.;)
**From the chat, RM on the owners:
"Robin Miller:
I've always said there needs to be a bounty on most car owners so they really don't like me and I really don't like them. A guy said what would I do as CEO? I'sd buy all the cars and get rid of owners and then we'd give them to the best, deserving drivers and never hear another word from those whiney pukes"
:eek::laugh:
The fact that this thread has so few posts speaks volumes. If we DGAF, who does? :shakehead
Napoleon
11-03-12, 04:07 PM
That's an utter reversal in (stated) philosophy.
There is a reason I started using a character from Animal Farm as my screen name on racing forums after the split.
"No question now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."
- George Orwell, Animal Farm, Ch. 10
stroker
11-03-12, 05:42 PM
Either way, this whole episode (along w/ Deep Dive's response) seems to me disqualifying for the H-G board to run this sport. They haven't the slightest idea of what they're doing or how to do it. Period.
Wow, talk about Deja Vu! Where have I heard that before? Lemme think...
The H-G board simply cannot run this thing.
Either way, this whole episode (along w/ Deep Dive's response) seems to me disqualifying for the H-G board to run this sport. They haven't the slightest idea of what they're doing or how to do it. Period.
Came up with that by yourself, didja?
:p
Hoo Boy, can't believe I'm gonna type what comes next, but oh well.
Sweet jeebus, it took a Tony Johns blog post to bring it all into perspective for ya? In the two forums I know you participate in, sledgehammers couldn't get through your cranium yet Tony Johns could...I reckon it's the reason the term "lemmings" was coined. Ask Tony what it means...
Tony Johns?
thanks for reconfirming you being a total dork
TravelGal
11-04-12, 11:41 AM
Now boys, boys. The prodigal son may not have returned but he has at least turned around to look back. Give him some credit for have the whatevers to post that here.
Soothingly posted by Mother Marge
Proving again that Tony George will say and do anything to be at the top of the sport while his only qualification is being born.
Karl Marx: "History repeats ... first as tragedy, then as farce."
I think we can call this mess a farce. Tony saves Indy, again. :rolleyes:
Racing Truth
11-05-12, 05:01 PM
Still here, still here...;) I'll get to the response to my TG post next. First...
You want them to be blamed. I'm reading it that they had legit concerns that Randy is/was a hilljack and they didn't want him f'n it all up. All I heard all season long was IMS' position that "we'll address this at season's end". They were stonewalling the owners and they got pizzed and now you have this mess.
Hey bro, IMS sets the rules and they changed them mid-stream and it cost the owners. IMS blew it and you know it. Randy was a likeable guy but was in way over his head, and now you got Belskus who apparently doesn't have a clue either. IMS stands to benefit from higher car/parts costs...thus they has no intention to work with the owners to lower them. How long do you expect the owners to go along with these shenanigans? A full season went by and NOTHING. And, I'd like to know where Randy got all him AOW savy to do all this...Robin Miller? Fruit don't fall far from the tree.
Place blame where it is deserved. :shakehead
Yes, the way RB handled the parts thing was poor (though RM on Windbag said last night a deal for a reduction+rebate was reached 9/1), but it misses the point. NASCAR & F1 do a lot of questionable things that we could all list. I'm sure many owners/team principals have objected privately and publicly to any number of decisions that have been made. Has any owner/mftr. left b/c of these decisions? Not that I know of. What NASCAR or Bernie want, they usually get and everyone falls into line.
One model, the BE/NASCAR one, is commercially huge. The other, where "stakeholders" (other than fans) all have power w/ a weak CEO, is for many reasons, not. You either have one source of authority, or you have none. When you have stakeholders vying for power/influence, they'll do what's in their interest. Understandable, but the good of the sport gets lost (Fans? Who are they?).
So, while I appreciate input from owners, mftrs, etc, that's all it must be. Dictating policy? NO. In the end, they don't like it? Bye-bye.
DagoFast
11-05-12, 05:59 PM
And he jumps back in to defend them. Damn those knee jerk reflexes! :laugh:
Look, its really simple; in the olden days, paw paw Hulman rescued and built up a good race. But even he either wouldn't or more likely couldn't build a successful series around it. And there isn't a single shred of evidence that his spawn are anymore capable of it than he was. Quite the opposite in fact. Not acknowledging this simple fact guarantees you will be gnashing your teeth for years to come.
Oh, and one more fact you need to acknowledge:
CART did it. Big time. And in a remarkably short amount of time. :cool:
Do us all a favor; stop posting and spend a few days reflecting on these facts. It will save many of us the trouble of placing you on ignore.
Racing Truth...one model the world WON'T follow is the H-G/Indy/IRL model because it's not commercially viable or successful, no matter how long they try to model themselves after whoever.
You can point to everything but the dysfunctional idiots at 16th and Jonestown all you want...they will still **** it up every single time. GUARANTEED. The one common denominator in all of this failure IS the speedway and their meddling. Get a clue fella, momma keeps dropping the baby on its head but can't figure out why the baby is brain dead. Of course, shes keep right on dropping that baby on it's head.
Andrew Longman
11-05-12, 07:50 PM
I'm sure many owners/team principals have objected privately and publicly to any number of decisions that have been made. Has any owner/mftr. left b/c of these decisions? Not that I know of.cough, cough... Really?
How many small teams that were supposed to benefit from the "vision" are still around? How about Vision racing itself? How many of the CART teams made the move to the IRL? Do you think they would have if it made any financial sense? Gurney, Hogan, Patrick, Forsythe, Green -- they still racing? Only the insanely rich and insanely committed and competitive have survived the "decisions" from the braintrust at IMS and it was only because they love racing more than keeping every last dime they have.
Infinity, Oldsmobile, Toyota, Ford, MB, Goodyear, maybe Bridgestone, Lola, Swift, Reynard, Falcon, Panoz...?
And don't try to blame CART failures all on CART leadership. IMS created the climate where there was almost no way to make a business success in open wheel racing. And then when they had all the marbles and it was entirely their game to run, they screwed that too.
Racing Truth
11-05-12, 08:23 PM
Racing Truth...one model the world WON'T follow is the H-G/Indy/IRL model because it's not commercially viable or successful, no matter how long they try to model themselves after whoever.
You can point to everything but the dysfunctional idiots at 16th and Jonestown all you want...they will still **** it up every single time. GUARANTEED. The one common denominator in all of this failure IS the speedway and their meddling. Get a clue fella, momma keeps dropping the baby on its head but can't figure out why the baby is brain dead. Of course, shes keep right on dropping that baby on it's head.
Nice diversion!:thumbup: And I agree! The H-G family/board CANNOT run this sport. Period. The incompetence is... well, obvious.
Now, 2 months ago, my thought was I wouldn't mind a sale one bit (for the obvious reasons), but feared the buyers would be worse. I now fully comprehend that nothing could be worse than the current disaster.
None of which challenges my premise that car owners cannot dictate policy for a racing series.
Yes, Andrew, the IRL model was always bound for failure, due to TG's incompetence. That's not under dispute. But empirical evidence, throughout the racing world, suggests a "stakeholder-dominated" power structure cannot be successful or cohesive.
Int'l Sports Car racing might be an exception, due to the nature of the sport.
Racing Truth
11-05-12, 08:53 PM
As for my TG post...
Sweet jeebus, it took a Tony Johns blog post to bring it all into perspective for ya? In the two forums I know you participate in, sledgehammers couldn't get through your cranium yet Tony Johns could...I reckon it's the reason the term "lemmings" was coined. Ask Tony what it means...
Nope, but it was one of several items that crystallized it. In truth, I'd gotten to Johns' position (though not his attitude towards George) before ever reading it.
It's not that I LOVE the proposal. It still involves Tony George. I'd be far happier if the Board had, months ago, stood firmly behind their own CEO and, in essence, told saboteurs to GFY. They didn't, and now it's history.
Given current realities, though, it still seems like the most viable option out there. The series separated from IMS/the family with a good management team that, seems to me, will be harder to push around, who also "get" the industry. Tony George is the biggest objection, but even Miller says he had no interest in day-to-day ops. Zak Brown and O'Driscoll aren't lightweights at all, far from it. Angstadt's presence is annoying, but I'd assume big marketing stuff would have been done by Zak anyway.
So, given the choice between the current board, with CEO Deep Dive, and the proposed management team, c'mon, it seems obvious to me. Even if it does reward the inmates (the agitators who wanted RB fired).:o
Exit question: If CART is formed a decade after it was, and no split happened, would it have as successful as it was from '79-95 (or close to it)?
So if Tony George says he has no interest in running the series, after all that has happened, do you actually believe him?
His involvement at any level is a nonstarter for me.
Racing Truth
11-05-12, 09:27 PM
So if Tony George says he has no interest in running the series, after all that has happened, do you actually believe him?
His involvement at any level is a nonstarter for me.
The actual proposal makes that difficult. Of the proposed "new" 5-member boarf, TG would seemingly have only 2 votes to re-promote himself, himself and Angstadt. The others? Not likely.
If I'm wrong about the composition of the board, then I'll take it back.
cameraman
11-05-12, 09:34 PM
If open wheel racing in the US is ever going to survive the league/sanctioning body must also own the Indy 500 (track & race) AND no one with any Hulman DNA in their genome can have any involvement at any level. That league/sanctioning body must NOT include any team owners nor car/tire manufacturers. The more races that the league owns the better, all would be optimal.
Since that is unlikely to ever occur, open wheel racing in the USA is forever ****ed.
Yes, Andrew, the IRL model was always bound for failure, due to TG's incompetence.
Then why did you support it?
Given current realities, though, it still seems like the most viable option out there.
The reality is the H-G clan are idiots and they have destroyed AOW. CART analogies are stupid unless someone accepts that it's racing was great and the IRL was a mistake. They (IMS) killed it all.
None of which challenges my premise that car owners cannot dictate policy for a racing series.
You and your buddies still think the owners want the series back, don't you? I can almost guarantee they're fat and sassy having the IMS take full responsibility for the sorry state the sport is in and paying them to be a part of it.
Andrew Longman
11-06-12, 12:08 AM
But empirical evidence, throughout the racing world, suggests a "stakeholder-dominated" power structure cannot be successful or cohesive.Really?
In any other business situation I can think of "stakeholders" having direct influence over thier destiny seems to work better than anything else.
CART very quick became successful and did amazingly well until TG took away their best race undermined the entire sport.
DagoFast
11-06-12, 12:52 AM
I'm continually stunned at the number of people in this country who call for racing to be controlled by a "dictator" because in their mind it would all just be so much simpler and a guaranteed success. :saywhat:
CART was just like our democracy is: messy. It's like making sausage, usually not very pretty but the end result is so worth it.
SurfaceUnits
11-06-12, 02:25 AM
Besides, with a dictator, there is only one person to blame,,,,how boring
The thing that many people who are race fans here in North America and have watched the sport decline are quick to point out the mussings of the Hulman family. It seems Tony Hulman references always come out.
something to remember
Tony Hulman surrounded himself with extremely competent people. I may misspell a few names here, Tom Binford, Joe Cloutier, Al Bloomaker,David Cassidy, Walt Meyers, Clarence Cagel (and a bunch I forget from security to registration to credentials to parking to yellow shirts to concessions) Tony Hulman did not do anything other than check the bottom line and plan the parties (and those were some damn good parties) Tom Binford was a great, great man and organizer. On the level of a Roger Penske. His mark on the City of Indianapolis will never be erased. He not only handled the goings on at IMS but behind the scenes would do major consulting work for USAC. The above list of names lived long lives. They did not groom anyone for these positions. Elmer and Mari's kids were, well kids. They did not burn with any passion. Tony George ****ed around like a rich kid would, until it was time to get a job. Then he used his resources in life to choose and fill those positions.
How did that work out?
It's a comedy playing out on the landscape of American Open Wheel.
You must also remember that USAC was run with an iron fist, like the AAA before it. If ever there were a caste system in place in America, this was it. Even stock car racing played into it, (not the other way around like today) but you had all these open wheel sanction bodies all across the country (ARDC, IMCA, CRA, with big time clubs in Colorado, Penn, Arizona, Washington State, hell even NASCAR had open wheel divisions) You had to kiss some serious ass to get into AAA or USAC. Not saying it was right, but tons and tons of efforts were launched. The world just lost Carrol Shelby, a winner and a car guys car guy. Do you realize he was kicked out of IMS for taking a rookie test in a car that was not assigned to him? That's how hard it was to get into Champ Car racing under the regiem who made up the rules.
Some of it was very backwards, and it was self benefitting to the sanctioning body.
but I will stick by my original premiss, it takes a bunch of very talented men and women pulling the same direction to make racing work. It is entertainment after all, but something mechanical minded car folks and dare devils gravitate towards like a moth to a flame.
It is also worth noting that America and the world in general is losing it's love affair with the car. It is why Indianapolis Champ Car racing should be leading the parade in the innovation department. Electric, green, swamp water, solar, whatever.
This task is way to big to be taken on by the collection of retards running it now.
It's broke, it won't get fixed
TravelGal
11-06-12, 01:53 PM
It's broke, it won't get fixed
Well done and well stated. ^^^
These are the saddest, but truest words. No matter how much I wish it otherwise, I only come to the conclusion that everything "they" say they want is what we had. The numnuts screwed it up and have no idea why or how they did it. As the old Swede used to say, "Not the notion of the motion of the ocean." :(
trauma1
11-07-12, 12:36 PM
These people ALL suck. (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/pruett-the-firing-of-indycar-ceo-randy-bernard-part-1/P1) CART, IRL, H-G board, owners, CEO's and drivers. How did these people ever lead a functioning entity?
The tire thing amuses me. "Firestone has always been in ICS. Firestone must always be in ICS." Way to think outside the box, people.:shakehead
And Loudon's Bernard's fault? Huh?
It's a well-written, though depressing piece. I still supported RB, but I can see where the other side(s) were coming from now. Probably says something, I'll admit, when multiple sides are against you.
Dude the owners should get more of the $$$, they are the ones that hire the crew members and drivers, getting screwed by Dallara and IMS over parts they are getting jack sqate from IMS
datachicane
11-07-12, 08:36 PM
Apparently St. Dan must have been some sort of commie.
Ziggy: " it takes a bunch of very talented men and women pulling the same direction to make racing work"
I think this was the key to CART, more than anything else. They may have been a little shaky in the early days, but by the time they hit it big they were pros. Only enlightened management could could collect and retain such a staff.
And that is the problem with dictatorship, which is more efficient in every other way -- the dictator can't be a moron. Tony H. knew what he was doing, but no one since associated with IMS has had a clue.
There were plenty of fumbles by USAC and IMS, the playing of favorites and short sightedness, that said OW racing worked, having a presence in mainstream America's consciousness much like nascar today. What's lost today is a fascination with speed records, the danger factor in auto racing and probably most importantly a defacto ladder system of local OW racing, state fairs, county fairs with weekend racers trying to make the big time building a following and eventually moving up to "big cars" and racing the "Sweepstakes" at IMS.
Even now it seems nascar is losing it's following. Time seems ripe for OW to reinvent itself to capture race fan's consciousness, possibly as Ziggy stated, by bringing back innovation and diversity in design. They should take the risk. Young gamer kids and X sports fans should be among the target fan base. Will it come back? Doubtful, the leadership isn't their.
http://silentpagoda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/indycar_trophy_small.jpg
Sorry to pee on your corn flakes fellas...but, to capture the youth you have to have something SEXY to sell. This, nor the above, will ever do it. Just the facts JACK. If you can't recapture even the simplest of interests you have lost. The DW12, and anything these idiots try will amount to nothing but failure.
http://cdn.hondanews.com/photos/0e36/fe25/0e36fe25-c4cb-47e9-861c-1f70c817499e-500x353.jpg
The world just lost Carrol Shelby, a winner and a car guys car guy. Do you realize he was kicked out of IMS for taking a rookie test in a car that was not assigned to him? That's how hard it was to get into Champ Car racing under the regiem who made up the rules.
Some of it was very backwards, and it was self benefitting to the sanctioning body. but I will stick by my original premiss, it takes a bunch of very talented men and women pulling the same direction to make racing work. It is entertainment after all, but something mechanical minded car folks and dare devils gravitate towards like a moth to a flame.
They weren't stupid but they had their heads wedged firmly up their a***s while the rest of the world caught and passed them by. Once they wiped the p**p from their eyes, it was too late. Especially for a bunch of people who always take the wrong lessons from history.
Mary
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