View Full Version : This week in Indy Car History: August 9, 2012 Edition
- IRL/Indy Car scores 0.5 TV rating on ABC Mid-Ohio broadcast. VIBRANT! Could be lowest EVAH!
- Dragon Team owner Jay Penske and brother Mark, arrested for breaking and entering, a felony. Jay Penske, confronted by a woman while he was urinating in the parking lot of a Nantucket yacht club “turned and continued to urinate on her boots. He then proceeded to grab her arm and push her. (The woman) also states that Mark (before he ran away) pushed her and they both then ran to a house on Yacht Club property (which they proceeded to break into and hideout until the heat was off). Should do wonders for Katherine Legge's sponsor..."TrueCar Racing Women Empowered Initiative."
- Qingdao China race cancelled, creates mid-summer gap of 3 weeks before next race. That's momentum!
That is all! :p:thumbup:
The better angels of my nature tell me not to revel in the abject failure of all that is Indy Car. They need to shut up, however.:rofl:
I've been reading that it's all our fault. :gomer:
I've been reading that it's all our fault. :gomer:
"Our" fault? The haters? CART hold outs? Would be great if OC was called out by name. :laugh:
I thought it was: the media, NASCAR, stick and ball sports, the economy, the lack of American drivers, tire manufacturers, engine manufacturers, bad race promoters, too many street courses, greedy team owners, the lack of a good TV contract.
What is the excuse of the day?
It seems that we never were really fans of the sport if we can't get behind now what is posing as the top rung in NA open wheel. Some feel that IndyCar has recaptured everything that CART once had. If we were really the fans we say we were, we would adopt IndyCar; ratings would improve, tracks would sell out, sponsors would flock to the series, TG would become a Sagamore once again and we'd all live happily ever after. It is all our fault. It's out there. I just don't feel like ruining this Friday morning digging up the threads to find them.
Wear the shame for the failure of IndyCar, folks. Damn, what a burden.
"Our" fault? The haters? CART hold outs? Would be great if OC was called out by name. :laugh:
I thought it was: the media, NASCAR, stick and ball sports, the economy, the lack of American drivers, tire manufacturers, engine manufacturers, bad race promoters, too many street courses, greedy team owners, the lack of a good TV contract.
What is the excuse of the day?
Elmo, you forgot the biggie: It's all CART's fault.
Also, in gomerville, the TV contract is wonderful, since Lord Tony brought it forth from the mountain hisownself.
Wear the shame for the failure of IndyCar, folks.
Proudly! :D
It seems that we never were really fans of the sport if we can't get behind now what is posing as the top rung in NA open wheel. Some feel that IndyCar has recaptured everything that CART once had. If we were really the fans we say we were, we would adopt IndyCar
CART had a style and personality all it's own. The crap foisted upon the masses by 16th and Jonestown today is devoid of ANY personality or feel. The day the 2008 merger was announced, that's the day AOW's style and personality died. Had there been a more equitable "merge", today might be different. Yeah, I got your "transition" drivers and teams RIGHT HERE.
Silver Spoons didn't get what he thought he was getting....and for that I revel in all their bloody failure. :thumbup:
The better angels of my nature tell me not to revel in the abject failure of all that is Indy Car. They need to shut up, however.:rofl:
"If they succeed good for them, but I won't be there," I say, but then I read a post like this and start laughing.
Napoleon
08-17-12, 03:11 PM
I've been reading that it's all our fault. :gomer:
Where?
Where?
where else :gomer::tony::gomer:
check your PMs
Napoleon
08-17-12, 03:19 PM
Some feel that IndyCar has recaptured everything that CART once had. If we were really the fans we say we were, we would adopt IndyCar
Please tell me this is from Defender, or t13 or one of the others that hung out on the Speedvision boards before the advent of boards devoted just to the IRL or to CART. I recall at that time coming to the conclusion that those morons were so blinkered that they somehow thought of the whole CART/IRL thing was some kind of zero sum game and that CART fans could be "captured" (by the way, this is also around the time it occured to me that Lord Sagamore was really Napoleon from Animal Farm). I tried to school them on how moronic that whole concept was, that it was not a zero sum game, and that the outcome would not be that all prior CART fans would watch the IRL if it was the last man standing. Too bad I saved none or those threads (I think, I should check sometime).
Napoleon
08-17-12, 03:34 PM
where else :gomer::tony::gomer:
Ah, and I see Doc Austin is the one who went there first over there. I just knew it would be one of those jokers.
Ah, and I see Doc Austin is the one who went there first over there. I just knew it would be one of those jokers.
He isn't the only one. There are several others that trot this out and have been for the past few months. It has become the reason du jour. They have run through so many other excuses for failure but this one is convenient. It absolves them from responsibility for the state of this mess, it absolves management of the series for responsibility, it absolves the HG family for responsibility and puts the blame squarely on the non-believers.
It's all your fault Nappy. And mine. And Chief's and just about everyone who posts on this forum.
Aren't you proud of yourself? ;)
Napoleon
08-17-12, 04:34 PM
And Chief's
Well, yeah that guy really is a troublemaker ;)
Aren't you proud of yourself? ;)
Yes I am!
I love how they blame the people who accurately predicted how TG and gang were screwing everything up.
CART had a style and personality all it's own. The crap foisted upon the masses by 16th and Jonestown today is devoid of ANY personality or feel. The day the 2008 merger was announced, that's the day AOW's style and personality died. Had there been a more equitable "merge", today might be different. Yeah, I got your "transition" drivers and teams RIGHT HERE.
Silver Spoons didn't get what he thought he was getting....and for that I revel in all their bloody failure. :thumbup:
Right on. Have you noticed that there is absolutely no passion, no emotion in the leeg.
Remember at the end of a real IndyCar race when the car would stop in victory lane and the crew would be trying to pull the driver out while he was desperatly trying to get unbuckled to celebrate? Now they come back from commercial and the driver is sitting in his car with a Firestone hat looking waiting for the signal to get out of the car and pump his fists. Then they let loose the ****ing confetti.
I, for one, hope it dies a slow, painful death. About three years should do it. By then the paid attendance should be those four asshats. Dick Austin, t13, paff and John Howard.
The Hulman-George clan and the place fans from TrackForum should burn in hell for destroying the most exciting racing series the world has ever seen.
Rex Karz
08-17-12, 05:54 PM
The qucker this bucket of vomit gets flushed down the toilet the better.
Right on. Have you noticed that there is absolutely no passion, no emotion in the leeg.
THIS.
I attended a couple events at M-O and practice at Nazareth. The hollowness defies words.
For the self-promoting masturbatory marketing fantasies of the IRL taking place at the venue, it was so phony and WGAF. Flags and banners and signs and displays and "experiences" and fan-fests and so on. Meh. And not just by me. All that crap was empty. The kids had the run of the place - no lines, no waiting. :rolleyes:
Folks came to see the racing it seemed. And that was a questionable experience.
They've so missed the point. Put out a decent product, with watchable events, cars that don't hurt my eyes or ears, drivers with some passion (not phony fence climbers). Give me a reason to watch. Give me a reason to care. Until then..... :thumdown:
Andrew Longman
08-17-12, 08:48 PM
I attended the last few CART races at Nazareth, MIS, RA, and Cleveland.
Even if the stands where plenty empty the cars and driving was phenomenal. Standing out especially was Tracy's 235+ pole run at MIS where he slid up inches from the wall coming out of 4 coming towards the flagstand (which I was standing under).
And the few people in the stands got it. They knew what they were watching.
Fast forward a bit to the few IRL events I attended at Nazareth. A) almost no one paid for a ticket. B) almost no one was really a fan and knew what they were watching and C) the racing sucked -- The IRL drivers at the time could barely figure out how to negotiate a lap at speed around the tricky Naz layout. D) no one left thrilled and motivated to watch more IRL racing. Not much different today.
He isn't the only one. There are several others that trot this out and have been for the past few months. It has become the reason du jour. They have run through so many other excuses for failure but this one is convenient. It absolves them from responsibility for the state of this mess, it absolves management of the series for responsibility, it absolves the HG family for responsibility and puts the blame squarely on the non-believers.
It's all your fault Nappy. And mine. And Chief's and just about everyone who posts on this forum.
Aren't you proud of yourself? ;)
Mikey13DOA has been saying the same for a while, he just says it "nicer".
I accept responsibility for my part in the death of Indycar.
Well, I hope you are proud, Mr. G.
It's amazing how many things they find over there to blame for the low attendance and TV ratings. It's simple Gomer: They've put in years of effort and countless millions of dollars, and it still remains that people don't like the product.
Michaelhatesfans
08-18-12, 02:04 PM
I've been reading that it's all our fault. :gomer:
(Borat voice) High five!
Turning back the clock to 2004. I added some bolding, in case someone wants to copy and paste it, make a couple of minor edits and paste it over there as an explanation.
If Bruce "Pace Car" Martin had this nailed a decade ago, what does it say about the people who still don't get it?
November 8, 2004
By Bruce Martin
SportsTicker Contributing Editor
AVONDALE, Arizona (Ticker) Although it was not completely unexpected, GM Racing's decision to yank the Chevrolet brand from the Indy Racing League after the 2006 season has sent shock waves through the sport.
Chevy's departure from the IRL leaves the series in the hands of two Japanese engine manufacturers Toyota and Honda. Because its future depends solely on companies based in Japan, the IRL should stand for "Ichiban Racing League."
To make matters worse for the IRL, the future of the series is in control of two companies that have proven in the past that if a sanctioning body makes a decision that is unpopular, they could yank its participation.
That's what happened in 2001 when CART decided to change the engine formula against the wishes of Toyota and Honda. When both decided to leave CART, it left that series in a position to be a single-engine, spec formula.
Chevrolet decided that the combination of higher costs and increased competition didn't justify the lack of exposure its product has gotten in an ever-shrinking sport.
"This situation was one where the investment in the series did not meet our business objectives any more," said Doug Duchardt, director of GM Racing. "We had to make a tough decision on whether to continue.
"At the beginning of the IRL, there was a certain model we could use and we were successful at it. That worked for us. There's no secret that the costs have gone up and the TV ratings and attendance have been flat or down. You have to lay that out. It is what it is. We have to make a decision based on our business model."
Duchardt was promoted to his current role after Herb Fishel retired two years ago. Prior to that, Duchardt was in charge of the GM Racing NASCAR program, which caused concern that he was never really interested in the IRL in the first place.
Chevrolet made a valiant effort in 2003 when it was successful in getting the IRL to adopt the Gen IV engine built by Cosworth after the Gen III engine was nothing more than a high-speed boat anchor.
With Sam Hornish Jr. at Panther Racing, the Gen IV engine proved to be a fast answer to Toyota and Honda. Hornish nearly overcame his deficit in the standings and wasn't eliminated until he dropped out of the final race of the 2003 season.
Unfortunately for both Chevrolet and Toyota, neither engine company could compete against Honda in 2004. Toyota won the first and the last race of the season with Honda winning every contest in between.
Because of Chevrolet's decision to leave, Toyota executives say they may also leave after the 2006 season unless things change within the IRL.
"Chevrolet's departure is very bad for the series," Toyota Motorsports manager Lee White said. "You have open-wheel racing without an American manufacturer and the Indianapolis 500 without an American manufacturer. That's a pretty serious deal."
After giving the bad news to Tony George on Wednesday, Duchardt and GM officials informed teams that used the engine last year that it would leave after 2005 and that Panther Racing would be the primary team it backed next year.
"Panther will be with us next year, and we're both committed to winning," Duchardt said. "We're committed to give them the piece that will help them win. After the other teams have this information, we'll sit down with them and help them decide where they want to go from here."
White and Toyota are dissatisfied with the current state of the IRL. After getting pounded by Honda in 2004, White indicated serious changes have to be made to keep costs under control or they could also leave the sport.
"When we entered the series, we spent two years discussing engine rules, distribution rules, buying, leasing and we signed up for the same program as Chevrolet," White said. "Our level of support is approaching that of what it was in CART. I would say our enthusiasm doesn't match that what it was in CART but the cost is and that is a huge worry for the company."
White said Toyota continues to believe the IRL is the best answer to save an entire form of racing in the United States, but it is time to make some changes before it's too late.
"It's a difficult decision because we support Tony George and we support the series," White said. "Unfortunately, the series business model isn't what it was two years ago. We went to the IRL and embraced the Chevrolet business model. We had people signed up as engine builders, we were prepared to sell engines but no one wanted to buy them. The direction we are going in now is very troubling."
According to numbers derived from the Joyce Julius Sponsor's Report, the average television ratings for IRL races in 2002 was 1.2067. That figure dropped to 1.0250 in 2003 a drop of 15 percent.
Ratings dropped even further in 2004 with an average TV rating of 0.8625 a 16 percent dip from 2003. Included in that rating was a 0.1 for the IRL race televised by ESPN at California this past October, which may be the lowest IRL rating of all time.
Attendance actually has shown an increase for the IRL, but what brings that number up is Joyce Julius' presumption that 400,000 fans were at the Indianapolis 500 in 2002, 2003 and 2004. Even the Indianapolis Motor Speedway admitted there were tickets left for sale the day of the race in 2003 and 2004.
But, using the presumption of 400,000 fans at the Indy 500, average attendance was 67,832 in 2002, 70,702 in 2003 and 74,120 in 2004. The reason for increase can be directly attributed to the additional race in 2003 and 2004 at Twin-Ring Motegi in Japan, where 60,000 fans attended last year and 76,000 in 2004.
The problem with the IRL is no matter how many young, eager types it hires in sales, marketing and promotion, do the folks in the "red states" really want to buy its product?
If someone invents "Onion Gum" no matter how much is spent in sales, advertising and promotion, no matter how many double-truck ads are purchased in USA Today, does anyone really want to buy onion-flavored gum?
The IRL has become motorsports version of "Onion Gum."
"Despite a tough economy, the IndyCar Series enters 2005 in its strongest position yet in terms of its overall economic health, with sponsorship up, attendance showing growth, team sponsorships the highest in series history and the strongest driver talent line-up in series history," said Fred Nation, the executive vice president of communications for the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Corporation and the IRL.
"The 2005 season will be the second year of a six-year contract for U.S. television with ABC/ESPN that pays rights and production fees, as well as the strongest worldwide television package in U.S. racing."
According to Nation, "ABC/ESPN and the Indy Racing League are committed to growing the series and ratings through a joint promotional plan that is in place for 2005 using resources of all three parties."
White said he remains extremely concerned for the series of costs involved in what was supposed to be a cost-contained series.
"We entered the series under the idea that you could have one or two works teams that were allowed with our agreement in the IRL," White said. "Now, there isn't a team that comes and talks to us unless they want everything for free and cash. It has absolutely turned into a 100 percent manufacturer head-to-head combat and that is not a comfortable position for us.
"I can't imagine the series is very comfortable with that."
White said Honda's involvement and spending has raised the bar of competition in the IRL. Sources indicate Honda even entered into a wind-tunnel program with its teams to help improve the chassis used in the series for those teams running Honda.
By underwriting such an enormous cost, it has created a gap between Honda and the teams that use Honda and Chevrolet engines.
"The problem is there is no mechanism within the structure of the organization to contain that," White said. "It makes it a very difficult problem unless you have full grandstands and really good TV ratings so that you can justify that type of expenditure."
White said renewing with the IRL is too far away to even consider, and the IRL has yet to consider a rules package for 2007 and beyond. White wants for a stock-based engine something Duchardt and Chevrolet have expressed interest in.
"Certainly we are disappointed in Chevrolet's stated intention to not return for the 2006 season," Nation said. "We understand that General Motors has its challenges both on and off the track. We do expect Chevrolet to review proposed changes to the engine package for 2007 once they are completed.
"It continues to be the IndyCar Series goal to draw the participation of major manufacturers. With two years of experience with Chevy, Honda and Toyota competing fiercely against each other, we are in active communication with all three as we formulate specifications and regulations for 2007 and beyond."
White said there hasn't been an initial meeting with the IRL regarding the engine specifications for 2007 and beyond. Joe Negri of GM Motorsports presented White with a worksheet of some proposals for the next generation engine, but there have been no talks with the IRL.
"The first thing we have to do is get some people together to talk about it and it hasn't happened yet," White said of the IRL. "We haven't decided to leave. We are committed to the program through 2006. I'd hate to say we are in any position to dictate, but certainly I'm extremely concerned for the series.
"We could have left and everything would have been fine. Honda could have left and it would have been fine. But the fact Chevrolet left is a very, very serious problem for the IRL. The IRL doesn't have the strength, in-house, to protect the engine manufacturers' from themselves."
stroker
08-21-12, 07:05 PM
Follow the money, i.e. the engine manufacturers. If there's any reason to think Honda is bolting from the .1RL or that Chevy is running out of sponsorship money, then there might be something to Miller's "more than just a rumor".
Interesting that Ed Severson hasn't posted anything about that...
Ed_Severson
08-21-12, 07:50 PM
Interesting that Ed Severson hasn't posted anything about that...
About what, exactly?
Racing Truth
08-21-12, 08:30 PM
Follow the money, i.e. the engine manufacturers. If there's any reason to think Honda is bolting from the .1RL or that Chevy is running out of sponsorship money, then there might be something to Miller's "more than just a rumor".
Interesting that Ed Severson hasn't posted anything about that...
In a schadenfreude way, I know Miller's rumor would please many, buttttt consider this: Were it come to fruition, I could almost guarantee who one owner would be. Anton Hulman George. H=ll, some genius owners wanted him back in charge last yr.:gomer:
Should it come about, I'm done. Owners and TG screwing it up together? Think I'd pass.
Too funny. You loved and nurtured the evil owners back into your heart which began the free fall of AOW, now you fault them for their desire to not be extorted by the speedway and Dallara. You idiots wanted 1977-78 back again and today is what you have. Did you make it to the Qingdao Beer Festival? Who won the big race? I'm sure the owners were behind it. Someday when you are deloused properly you will find out who the real evil owners are.
Ed, so, are the car owners getting ripped off for spare parts or not? That's the root of all this 'owners group' nonsense. It's the kickback overcharging by the speedway....another ICONIC failure. I see Brian Barnhart is behind this "over pricing strategy".
Frankly IMHO, the speedway is directly responsible for all of this and deserves it's comeuppance. And for them car owners, they can go to hell...any idiot that stuck around after Indy knowing full well they were being exploited by overpaying for spares deserves what they get. And folks wonder why people hate the sport....in 33 years since CART was conceived, has NOTHING been learned? Let it rot, oh let it rot...
stroker
08-22-12, 08:58 AM
About what, exactly?
Robin Miller's "more than a rumor" bit.
Wasn't one of the original excuses for the first vision was the evil engine leases and saving the local engine builders? That turned out well, eh? But no problem, Tony was in charge. That's all that matters to the place fans. Now with the new vision they are killing off the fabricators. What's next? Vision to run all the cars (ala Skip Barber) and kill off the teams?
Give it back to that coke addled visionary. Let him finish the job.
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc241/Cloud9Above/mccoy.jpg
Ed_Severson
08-22-12, 04:48 PM
Robin Miller's "more than a rumor" bit.
Don't know anything about it. Haven't seen/read Miller's comments, have no idea which owners he's referring to or what he believes they hope to accomplish. Too busy trying to win races to follow that soap opera for now ... Maybe over the winter.
Ed_Severson
08-22-12, 04:54 PM
Ed, so, are the car owners getting ripped off for spare parts or not?
Absolutely, yes.
Absolutely, yes.
Miller said on Wind CHunnel that owners are forming a group to buy the series. Apparently theya re at an impasse with the speedway regarding the high markup costs by Dallara (and subsequent kickbacks to IMS) of replacement/spare parts, and they feel they can do better. All this harkens back to the days before the White Paper and has the gomerati wanting former CART/CCWS owners heads on a platter for this rumored revolt.
I rate the yawnability of the rumor as an 11 out of 10 for it's sheer rapt stupidity. :yawn:
chop456
08-23-12, 01:44 AM
Why take ownership of that failure?
How about "We're all making our own parts and if you don't like it, we're done".
Then buy it for $5.99
Lux Interior
08-23-12, 07:50 AM
If IMS is getting a kickback on parts that the teams need to buy then they are dumber than I thought. They should be getting no money from that at all. No wonder this business cannot grow. :thumdown: If I were the team owners, I'd head off to ALMS or something like that.
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