View Full Version : So does Bernard get fired?
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SurfaceUnits
10-26-11, 01:24 PM
so to get a 1+ rating they have to kill a driver; I wonder who get to schedule that in for each race
To improve this trhread I thought I would add
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/volleyball-shorts-20.jpg
Spicoli
10-26-11, 01:33 PM
so to get a 1+ rating they have to kill a driver; I wonder who get to schedule that in for each race
To improve this trhread I thought I would add
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/volleyball-shorts-20.jpg
Zackly. Without the horrible demise of Mr. Wheldon, I am sure they would have maintained their sub zero ratings....:thumdown:
Editors note: Thanks! :D
racer2c
10-26-11, 01:45 PM
Now that's a series I can get behind!! :thumbup:
so to get a 1+ rating they have to kill a driver; I wonder who get to schedule that in for each race
I would LOVE to see the ratings before and after the crash.
I would also LOVE to see more pics like that. :D
I still likes my Lingerie Football League...:p
http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/Lingerie%2520Football%2520League-thumb-400x330.jpg
Spicoli
10-26-11, 02:39 PM
Ropin Randy speaks.......
http://www.ibj.com/indycar-ceo-bernard-revisits-horrific-week/PARAMS/article/30363
He's not going anywhere, and he has fully submerged himself in the Koolaid. go get em cowboy...:yeehaw:
Michaelhatesfans
10-26-11, 03:27 PM
Well done, Surface Units:thumbup:
Definitely the mood swing this thread needed. Hell, the mood swing that the entire forum needed!
Michaelhatesfans
10-26-11, 03:28 PM
Ropin Randy speaks.......
http://www.ibj.com/indycar-ceo-bernard-revisits-horrific-week/PARAMS/article/30363
He's not going anywhere, and he has fully submerged himself in the Koolaid. go get em cowboy...:yeehaw:
Shocker.
Racing Truth
10-26-11, 03:36 PM
Ropin Randy speaks.......
http://www.ibj.com/indycar-ceo-bernard-revisits-horrific-week/PARAMS/article/30363
He's not going anywhere, and he has fully submerged himself in the Koolaid. go get em cowboy...:yeehaw:
Specifically, how does that AP interview (props to Jenna Fryer, BTW) suggest submersion into the ("Hulman," I assume) "Kool-aid?"
Specifically, how does that AP interview (props to Jenna Fryer, BTW) suggest submersion into the ("Hulman," I assume) "Kool-aid?"
Because it positions him as an innocent victim, who now has to make it all right with the sharks swimming all around him. But, don't blame him! He didn't know what he was doing! :shakehead
Racing Truth
10-26-11, 03:50 PM
Because it positions him as an innocent victim, who now has to make it all right with the sharks swimming all around him. But, don't blame him! He didn't know what he was doing! :shakehead
1. I think that's largely true.
2. Not the question I asked.
racer2c
10-26-11, 03:58 PM
It mentions the shadow figures that surround him that actually call the shots.:thumdown:
Racing Truth
10-26-11, 04:04 PM
It mentions the shadow figures that surround him that actually call the shots.:thumdown:
You referring to this?:
"Randy has done a good job for us. I think there's definitely some parts he still doesn't understand, but he's got other people here who understand racing."
Bernard faced criticism this year when some of his ideas — double-file restarts and a random drawing to determine starting position for the second of two dual races at Texas — ran into resistance from the drivers. But he believes he can move the series forward.
B/c I don't think it says what you think it says.
racer2c
10-26-11, 04:10 PM
You referring to this?:
B/c I don't think it says what you think it says.
"It's been an unfair beating on Randy because nobody singlehandedly makes decisions. I just don't understand the criticism I'm seeing. It's from people unaware of this industry and aiming with the buck-stops-here mentality," said Texas Motor Speedway president Eddie Gossage.
The first step was the driver meeting, followed by a three-hour strategic session with a small focus group to discuss the 2012 car that's supposed to be a tremendous upgrade in safety and technology standards.
First, thanks for insulting my intelligence. Second, you need to learn what a 'Hulmanista' is.
cameraman
10-26-11, 04:42 PM
Hmmm,
http://img.spewf.com/2010/08/Volleyball-Butt-29.jpg
gerhard911
10-26-11, 04:48 PM
Second, you need to learn what a 'Hulmanista' is.
Dude, he may not know WHAT one is, but he has surely been fully indoctrinated :gomer:
Spicoli
10-26-11, 05:20 PM
Specifically, how does that AP interview (props to Jenna Fryer, BTW) suggest submersion into the ("Hulman," I assume) "Kool-aid?"
Specifically, he's now up on the cross, dying for the will of the people/gomers who must protect the Vi$ion$ and Tradition$ of the Hulman George posse. Rational thought and safety be damned, HE IS OURS NOW AND WE MUST HOLD HIM ON HIGH FOR HE IS OUR WAY TO THE OVAL PROMISE LAND
You know, our favorite type D (as in Defen***) would often refer us to his mantra "grow up and evolve", yet this is what these clowns have led the sport to? :rofl: Jeebus man, what flavor is YOUR koolaid?:saywhat:
Last point: But he went to work immediately. The first step was the driver meeting, followed by a three-hour strategic session with a small focus group to discuss the 2012 car that's supposed to be a tremendous upgrade in safety and technology standards.
typical IRL mentality: over promis and under deliver. GMAFB.
cameraman
10-26-11, 05:35 PM
Kinda like the good ole days:rofl:
Spicoli
10-26-11, 06:27 PM
Kinda like the good ole days:rofl:
Well, SmAackie is down. What do you eggspeckt.
Michaelhatesfans
10-26-11, 06:37 PM
th
Kinda like the good ole days:rofl:
Exactly - some anti gomer firewall action and some beach volleyball thrown in for good measure:thumbup:
Shocker.
Hmmm,
http://img.spewf.com/2010/08/Volleyball-Butt-29.jpg
She's doing it wrong.
High Sided
10-26-11, 09:09 PM
does she got it right?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_K9VU3XfY27k/SLP4HEM_zBI/AAAAAAAACmM/GmV9Vah6cfY/s400/%2560beach%2BLarissaFrancabrazil.jpg
how bout her?
http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Beach-Volleyball-Bottoms-31-595x396.jpg
maybe her?
http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Beach-Volleyball-Bottoms-10.jpg
the list goes on...
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/display.aspx?p=22305872
Michaelhatesfans
10-26-11, 10:30 PM
does she got it right?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_K9VU3XfY27k/SLP4HEM_zBI/AAAAAAAACmM/GmV9Vah6cfY/s400/%2560beach%2BLarissaFrancabrazil.jpg[/url]
Jesus, is it hot in here?
Michaelhatesfans
10-26-11, 10:31 PM
She's doing it wrong.
Not enough fingers?
miatanut
10-26-11, 11:09 PM
I had to check the sign on the door to make sure where I was.
The Smackies are getting restless!
Will Power said Wednesday he’s committed to IndyCar and believes the series will become much safer from the investigation into Dan Wheldon’s fatal accident....“I am committed, I am staying in IndyCar, simple as that,” Power said.
Power suffered a broken vertebra in the accident, his second serious back injury. He also broke two vertebrae in a 2009 crash at Sonoma.
They're circling the wagons (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/othersports/autoracing/will-power-committed-to-indycar-and-convinced-series-will-be-safer-after-wheldons-death/2011/10/26/gIQA5NmgJM_story.html)
"They don't just let people come in off the street and race an IndyCar," Pippa Mann said Wednesday...
The 28-year-old British racer reported on Twitter on Tuesday that she needs "replacement blood vessels, nerves [and] stealing a tendon from my wrist and a skin graft!"
Don't tell Paul Dana or Dr. Jack Miller (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/indycar/story/2011-10-26/pippa-mann-las-vegas-crash/50936134/1)
If you are a potential sponsor for IndyCar (there has to be a few, right?) and you did some research, even a simple a Google search, you'd certainly think twice about committing any amount of money to this cluster. This will really test the Hulman/George family's commitment to the future of the series.
Lux Interior
10-26-11, 11:48 PM
They're circling the wagons (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/othersports/autoracing/will-power-committed-to-indycar-and-convinced-series-will-be-safer-after-wheldons-death/2011/10/26/gIQA5NmgJM_story.html)
I like the fact that the article has no comments, no tweets, and no facebook recommendations. basically, no one is reading it because no one cares.
Will, They don't race in Oz land anymore - why are you still in the series? Why are you not in V8 Supercar?
Trevor Longman
10-27-11, 11:29 AM
Zanardi has now hit out at the Indycar formula, saying they should go back to the way it was in the old CART days when you had to drive the car not the foot to the floor crap of today. Its worth a read. :thumbup: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95688
Lux Interior
10-27-11, 11:49 AM
Zanardi has now hit out at the Indycar formula, saying they should go back to the way it was in the old CART days when you had to drive the car not the foot to the floor crap of today. Its worth a read. :thumbup: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95688
He had some interesting comments about setups, about how they have to have the nose higher than the back of the car. Propensity to fly? You betcha.
Its amazing that lots of driver grumbling about the safety of the cars, tracks and sanction body have turned to support and commitment by the drivers for the series in recent days. Spicoli was 110% right that Randy served up a delicious flavour of koolaid in Monday's meeting. I recall a drivers advisory group being discussed in mid-2010 by the drivers...and again after the death of Wheldon. Now, nothing.
Indy first before self interests like living life without crippling injuries sustained in a crapwagon crash or death by having NASCAR ovals in your life. Predictable, oh yeah.....the next grater incident, they can all go F themselves as they are now culpable as well.
If they're going to let the cars fly,maybe some Stuka like dive brakes would do the trick in getting the car back down somewhat safely :gomer::tony::p
TravelGal
10-27-11, 07:25 PM
Does anyone else find it unsettling in the extreme that they had a closed door driver's meeting and now, AFTER it, they are taking depositions from the drivers? I mean, c'mon.
BarillaGirl
10-27-11, 08:19 PM
How do I post an image here? ...let's see.... ;)
http://gtsrider.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/beach_volleyball_ban.jpg
stroker
10-27-11, 09:35 PM
how long have you been playing volleyball, BG?
;)
How do I post an image here? ...let's see.... ;)
http://gtsrider.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/beach_volleyball_ban.jpg
She's wearing a bra :tony:
Michaelhatesfans
10-27-11, 10:54 PM
She's wearing a bra :tony:
Hell, I didn't even know she had a head.
Bobby Unser -
“No, it's not the track, not the speeds,” continues Unser, who helped lead IndyCar into the stratosphere of speed with his development, and engineering efforts on the Gurney Eagles of the early 1970s, “it's the cars."....
“I had a sit down with Randy Bernard, and told him, ‘Listen to what the fans want. That's what we have to do. It doesn't matter what you want, or Bobby Unser wants. It's what the fans want.'
Bobby Unser nails it (http://www.racer.com/bobby-unser-blames-formula-for-wheldon-accident/article/214963/)
Here's what the fans want: pressdog's take (http://pressdog.typepad.com/dogblog/2011/10/the-search-for-dangerous-ish-racing.html#tp)
* three wide racing
* contact, spins, crashes, risk of death
* NASCAR ovals
* Spec racing that doesn't look or feel like spec racing
:yuck:
Nothing's going to change. :shakehead
racer2c
10-28-11, 07:50 AM
Did he just start watching auto racing? Auto racing has always been "danger-ish".
I would have rather read Bif's take.
There may be fans of that type of "show", but don't lump me in there. :rolleyes:
Open wheel racing was popular before NASCAR's rise. Tooling OWR to NASCAR style racing won't close that gap. And with NASCAR's popularity waning, you'd think doing something different than 3-wide, roundy round, crashfests might draw some eyes.
The quest for popularity is killing OWR. How many decisions in the name of the show OR entertainment value really made a difference?
This may not be a parallel by any means, but I saw one last weekend at my son's soccer practice. While they were practicing, there was a pick-up game on the adjacent field. There were two full teams - made up of young guys who's first language was probably not English. Many arrived with their families in tow. It was a shirts vs. skins game - no ref or anything. They played well, they played hard, they played fair. I was ready to pull my boy over to watch these guys play - more to be learned there for sure.
I was infinitely more entertained by watching people play a sport they obviously love, play it well, and be passionate about it. I'd rather drive there and watch their soccer game than watch most professional sports on TV.
Make it about the racing, not the show. The show and its carnival like atmosphere sucks.
astinus4
10-28-11, 11:15 AM
Great story, and you're 100% right. The cars could magically turn into CART era champcars overnight, but there's still something fundamentally....'goofy' about the IRL. It just doesn't feel like a sport - more like a reality tv show where the contestants cheat death in ugly and dangerous cars.
There may be fans of that type of "show", but don't lump me in there. :rolleyes:
Open wheel racing was popular before NASCAR's rise. Tooling OWR to NASCAR style racing won't close that gap. And with NASCAR's popularity waning, you'd think doing something different than 3-wide, roundy round, crashfests might draw some eyes.
The quest for popularity is killing OWR. How many decisions in the name of the show OR entertainment value really made a difference?
This may not be a parallel by any means, but I saw one last weekend at my son's soccer practice. While they were practicing, there was a pick-up game on the adjacent field. There were two fulls teams - made up of young guys who's first language was probably not English. Many arrived with their families in tow. It was a shirts vs. skins game - no ref or anything. They played well, they played hard, they played fair. I was ready to pull my boy over to watch these guys play - more to be learned there for sure.
I was infinitely more entertained by watching people play a sport they obviously love, play it well, and be passionate about it. I'd rather drive there and watch their soccer game than watch most professional sports on TV.
Make it about the racing, not the show. The show and its carnival like atmosphere sucks.
racer2c
10-28-11, 11:48 AM
Great story, and you're 100% right. The cars could magically turn into CART era champcars overnight, but there's still something fundamentally....'goofy' about the IRL. It just doesn't feel like a sport - more like a reality tv show where the contestants cheat death in ugly and dangerous cars.
You can take IndyCar out of Indiana, but you can't take Indiana out of IndyCar.:gomer:
Insomniac
10-28-11, 03:01 PM
The unknowable (d@mn, I'm channeling Don Rumsfeld) here is whether a r/s-only series would have garnered similar ratings to the CART r/s races.
Ohhh, I thought in general. As a series, I guess it depends on the fans. I liked the mix, but I also watch F1. i think there are a lot of factors that apply to whether one likes it. I doubt venue is any bigger than other factors.
Racing Truth
10-28-11, 03:31 PM
Ohhh, I thought in general. As a series, I guess it depends on the fans. I liked the mix, but I also watch F1. i think there are a lot of factors that apply to whether one likes it. I doubt venue is any bigger than other factors.
I think type of venue is important in this country only IF it completely defines the whole series. Street events in isolation draw surprisingly well at the gate & TV. A whole series of nothing but r/s events? Have my doubts.
miatanut
10-28-11, 03:52 PM
I think type of venue is important in this country only IF it completely defines the whole series. Street events in isolation draw surprisingly well at the gate & TV. A whole series of nothing but r/s events? Have my doubts.
Ever heard of Formula One?
If you haven't, it's a lot more popular than Indycar.
Insomniac
10-28-11, 05:58 PM
Ever heard of Formula One?
If you haven't, it's a lot more popular than Indycar.
Just wondering, even in the U.S.?
cameraman
10-28-11, 06:11 PM
At the moment I'd say F1 probably has a equal or larger following. The IRL really has dropped off the charts.
Spicoli
10-28-11, 07:50 PM
I think type of venue is important in this country only IF it completely defines the whole series. Street events in isolation draw surprisingly well at the gate & TV. A whole series of nothing but r/s events? Have my doubts.
If I knew how to make a :tony: pyramid for you, I wood.
miatanut
10-28-11, 08:42 PM
Just wondering, even in the U.S.?
The IRL has two big ovals that get decent attendance and ratings. The rest don't draw flies and the streets and roads get better attendance, from what I've seen.
Next year we'll get a chance to see how Texas IRL attendance compares to Texas F1 attendance. I'm betting F1 will win by a considerable margin, but we'll see. I don't think the argument of how many of the F1 fans will come from outside US borders has any significance. The fact they will attend a race in a country outside of the one they live in just shows how great they think the racing is. What counts is paying butts in the seats. No matter where they came from.
For a series with nary an oval on the schedule.
For a series with nary an oval on the schedule.
Does F1 give away free tixs? Or have hOt Whhhels stunt barn door jumps? Crapwaggons that don't fly? SnakepIts? How can F1 possibly compete with hte Indy?
Rogue Leader
10-29-11, 10:50 AM
At the moment I'd say F1 probably has a equal or larger following. The IRL really has dropped off the charts.
I would definitely agree. If people ask me about racing (and after I tell them I am not a NASCAR fan and they are shocked), F1 always gets a sign of understanding, Indy gets a sign of like "whats that like the minor leagues?". People know the Indy 500 but thats about it, at least here. F1 seams to have respect in the US in this day and age, and surprising amounts of people actually know who Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton, and Jenson Button are.
miatanut
10-29-11, 03:40 PM
F1 seems to have respect in the US in this day and age, and surprising amounts of people actually know who Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton, and Jenson Button are.
They learned that watching Cars. :D
I would definitely agree. If people ask me about racing (and after I tell them I am not a NASCAR fan and they are shocked), F1 always gets a sign of understanding, Indy gets a sign of like "whats that like the minor leagues?". People know the Indy 500 but thats about it, at least here. F1 seams to have respect in the US in this day and age, and surprising amounts of people actually know who Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton, and Jenson Button are.
and now they know who Dan Wheldon is................
Indy, either win it or get killed there = FAMOUS :yuck:
* of course with the IRL you have to win Indy before you get killed to be famous, See Renna, Tony *
untenable (http://spindoctor500blog.blogspot.com/2011/10/untenable.html)
POW
stroker
10-31-11, 11:26 AM
Yep. He pretty well dismantled them.
Napoleon
10-31-11, 12:23 PM
POW
http://listentoleon.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/batman_pow.jpg
Pretty good peice, but I can't believe he would mention Trump as an owner. The guy has managed to bankrupt casinos.
Spicoli
10-31-11, 01:51 PM
untenable (http://spindoctor500blog.blogspot.com/2011/10/untenable.html)
POW
Dayum. That will leave a mark.
Bhutan why would dumb ass Mari start listening now?:saywhat:
In other parts of the innerwebs this commentary is not enjoying a very warm reception. Go figure. :gomer:
I needed to be written, and it needs to be digested by the powers at be.
The entire 17 year fiasco should be sweep into the dustbin and racers need to take over the "industry."
Tony Hulman surrounded himself with racers and businessmen. The racers were Duane Carter, Henry Banks and Voyles and Binford from the banking side.(and this is not a complete list, Pillsburry, Fengler come to mind) but they knew what they were doing to cover their butts in the wake of the LeMans disaster in 1955, and to ensure a structure was in position for safer racing and compensation.
great article, too bad the nimrods who really need to comprehend it's meaning will never get it. Bernard's group has already moved it to Racing Biz, just like microcosm forum :rofl:
Ouch - Had a name not been attached to that, it could have been a compilation of the thousands of posts found here. Little to argue with in his column, but nothing that hundreds of former OWR fans haven't been saying for years.
As I started in, I thought he was going to lay blame squarely on Bernard - not that he doesn't deserve some. But then he squared off on everyone and everything else. :eek::thumbup:
cameraman
10-31-11, 05:10 PM
Bhutan why would dumb ass Mari start listening now?:saywhat:
Gotta love auto-spell check:laugh:
Spicoli
10-31-11, 05:55 PM
Gotta love auto-spell check:laugh:
Damned iPad.
Sounds like TGBB is who they will offer up to the gods. Bernard is the savior now, dontcha know.:tony:
miatanut
10-31-11, 06:11 PM
Kirby:
http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2011/the_way_it_is_no310.html
Kirby:
http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2011/the_way_it_is_no310.html
Good article :thumbup:
stroker
10-31-11, 06:32 PM
Between those two pieces just about everything that needs to be said has been.
So what do we do when the doorknobs running the show ignore them?
It's almost at the point where it's not even worth posting how screwed up they are. Seriously, if the teams and drivers continue to sign on to this crap how can you feel any sympathy for them?
Kirby:
http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2011/the_way_it_is_no310.html
The problem with both this and the Untenable article is that the nim-noms in Indiana hated everything about CART. Every single thing. All of Ashmore's points about--the design of the car, the horsepower, how the cars should drive, what type of course they run, the type of racing it produced, whether the fans actually liked the cars, engines, etc :shakehead (are you kidding me), or drivers--were the things that they were determined to get rid of or at least, change. At any cost.
What defies all logic is that they think they've been successful. They think this is a successful series with great racing that fans want want to follow--no--they think the fans are following this. In droves.
Somebody played a giant Jedi mind trick on them. How else to explain this.
Mary
Al Czervik
10-31-11, 08:01 PM
The problem with both this and the Untenable article is that the nim-noms in Indiana hated everything about CART. Every single thing.
Mary
They only hated one thing. CART showed that the series could be as big the Fi Hunred. Once that became apparent, it had to be destroyed. There could be no challenge to the dominance of Indy. They tolerated (but didn't like) CART running the series, the road races, etc., as long as Indy was king. As soon as the series championship became close to as important as winning The Only Race That Matter(Ed), well that was more than a gomer could take.
Andrew Longman
10-31-11, 08:32 PM
Between those two pieces just about everything that needs to be said has been.yep
So what do we do when the doorknobs running the show ignore them?
Same as we have been doing since 95. Only more of other stuff just to fill out the time. :gomer:
It's almost at the point where it's not even worth posting how screwed up they are. Seriously, if the teams and drivers continue to sign on to this crap how can you feel any sympathy for them?Been feeling that way for a while now... especially since the collapse of Champcar and complete capitulation to IMS. I find the Community forum most interesting.
miatanut
10-31-11, 08:56 PM
The problem with both this and the Untenable article is that the nim-noms in Indiana hated everything about CART. Every single thing. All of Ashmore's points about--the design of the car, the horsepower, how the cars should drive, what type of course they run, the type of racing it produced, whether the fans actually liked the cars, engines, etc :shakehead (are you kidding me), or drivers--were the things that they were determined to get rid of or at least, change. At any cost...
Mary
You are on a very impressive run! :thumbup:
They only hated one thing. CART showed that the series could be as big the Fi Hunred. Once that became apparent, it had to be destroyed. There could be no challenge to the dominance of Indy. They tolerated (but didn't like) CART running the series, the road races, etc., as long as Indy was king. As soon as the series championship became close to as important as winning The Only Race That Matter(Ed), well that was more than a gomer could take.
That's always been my position, but Mary makes a very good point. I was blind to that angle. Yeah, CART challenged the preeminence of Indy, but there was also the cultural clash. The :gomer:z, in their heart of hearts, really detested the whole direction to roadies, European drivers and technology, foreign races. It truly didn't matter that the season had three times the attendance (or more) and four times the TV ratings (or more) under the CART formula, it was all "wrong." Much better to be a much smaller sport that was "right." That's how folks like "D" and the TF faithful can go on and on about how great things are now. They truly believe that. Due to the culture clash, their concept is so foreign to most of us that we've been scratching our heads because we simply can't see what they see.
Not that I want to, but now I "get" it.
racer2c
10-31-11, 09:01 PM
They hated cart so much that they were willing to lock out teams, sponsors and more, they were willing to, and did, dictate a car that was 15 years behind what cart was running just so they could have cars of their own.
The hatred goes waaay back, we all know this. Anyone who knows what an agajanian is knows that.
That's why this thing will NEVER CHANGE UNTIL IT DIES! They are too stupid to change it.
I actually don't blame Bernard. What do you expect when the idiots who own the irl hire a rodeo promoter with zero racing experience to call the shots? I expect what they have.
Again, this thing will never change until thy are forced to close the doors.
Unless, that is there is a hostile take over by the racers and the fire just isn't there like it was in 79. No one cares. This thing needs to die.
SurfaceUnits
10-31-11, 11:13 PM
Tiny: "there were a lot of empty seats at the Pittsburg game Sunday. that means everthing is grate with indycars.
Tiny: a bull gratered a cowpoke at the national finals rodeo Sunday. that means everthing is grate with indycars.
Tiny: nascar was down .3 points at Martinsville this weekend. that means everthing is grate with indycars.
So what do we do when the doorknobs running the show ignore them?
Occupy 16th & Georgetown? :tony:
These two articles are excellent, but I would expect that of these two writers. They always got it. But they are still looking at the situation as fans, not as owners.
It seems to me that we are still trying to comprehend how the H-G's could have been so stupid in what they did, and I think that misses the point. They were not stupid -- they were coldly, ruthlessly rational. There was an obvious trend in Indy Car/Champ Car by the 1990's. The technology had outgrown the ovals. Clearly from the point of view of good racing the cars needed to be powerful enough to force the drivers to brake, or at least lift, in the corners. But cars that powerful, given all the aero and downforce improvements, were just too damned fast to be safe for the drivers or the spectators. It was a matter of time before the ovals were abandoned. So the H-G's, as the owners of the Big Oval, felt they had to protect their asset. So they made sure ovals would remain relevant by mandating a dumbed down formula designed to work on them. Add in the side effect of the pack racing and the observation that the fans dumb enough to remain were excited by such idiocy, and the P.T. Barnum-esque IRL was born.
I don't think that the family hates what CART was in terms of the style of the racing, I just think they don't give a **** as long as their asset is protected. Look at the attendance at last year's Indy 500 -- the fans came back. I would guess the family thinks that they are on the right track.
No Indy, they were stupid.
Still are.
Kirby:
http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2011/the_way_it_is_no310.html
I am NOT a Bruce Ashmore fan in any way at all but he has given voice to my opinion on the cars. Why can't we?
"They're trying to go somewhere else to create what was there before," Ashmore remarks. "Well, that's not right. Go back to what was there before. I'm sure you can attain what was there before if you go back to that formula. There was nothing wrong with it. So just re-run it."
Just print the damned rulebook from 1999 and run it. The fans will start to pay attention. Hell, even the current gomer fans will like it because they'll get to see a bunch of crashes when the no talent ass clowns that inhabit 3/4's of the field today try to drive a car that requires what they lack.
:flame::mad::flame::mad::flame:
No Indy, they were stupid.
Still are.
So true, and I don't think we've even begun to see the depth of their stupidity. Just wait for that new car to hit the track in St. Pete!! :gomer::tony:
racer2c
11-01-11, 10:28 AM
Ashmore: "They don't know why they're doing it." :gomer:
We've witnessed a sad, inexorably silly and lethal story over the past fifteen years. The lack of leadership, technically and otherwise, has been stunning. And so it continues.
:( :mad:
I don't think that the family hates what CART was in terms of the style of the racing, I just think they don't give a **** as long as their asset is protected. Look at the attendance at last year's Indy 500 -- the fans came back. I would guess the family thinks that they are on the right track.
You're right, the family doesn't care about the sport, just their asset. How they can be left with the feeling they are ahead of the game is beyond me. The fans came back because of centennial hoopla not because the racing was great, indy TV ratings in 2011 were 3rd lowest ALL TIME.
Less than 20K turned out at the big championship where a possible 1M + people had access to free tix... less than 2% bothered to show (and that was just from 2011 attendance). And that percentage might be even lower when you extract the non-racing related Vegas visitor that was looking for something to do on a Sunday and the tixs were free. Rejection, IRL stylee.
******* stupid, all of them. :flame:
Their problem is they can't admit they were wrong and admit CART was better. Period.
Here's my favorite Ashmore part (and you wondered why there was only a hologram?):
Ashmore has a bleak view of the process that took place in last year's contest for IndyCar's 2012 car. He believes each of the contestants was used unethically by IndyCar and Dallara to produce the new car.
"In my view the way they went about it was quite dishonest. All of us competing car builders had to sign our ideas away. All our ideas went into a pot and we had to sign a document saying that if we didn't win the contract they kept our ideas.
100% correct...everything in the IRL has always been a compromise, for the worse.
TKGAngel
11-01-11, 11:21 AM
"In my view the way they went about it was quite dishonest. All of us competing car builders had to sign our ideas away. All our ideas went into a pot and we had to sign a document saying that if we didn't win the contract they kept our ideas.
The same thing happens in the ad world when it comes to agency reviews. It's not a new practice, but it is a shady one.
Kirby and Ashmore get it.
100% correct...everything in the IRL has always been a compromise, for the worse.A compromise of a compromise of a compromise.
Kirby and Ashmore get it.
No kidding. To the old fans that don't pay much attention to AOWR these days, read both of them.
racer2c
11-01-11, 02:24 PM
Franchitti resumes '12 car in Sebring tomorrow. Nothing will change. This car will be ushered in as Gods gift to IndyCar. No one will care.
The sad part about both of those (and Kirby's is just a book report on Ashmore's column) is that these were not "socks blowing off", whistle-blowing, earth shattering, reports. Seriously, no one that posts here with any regularity read something there for the first time. Worse yet, folks here probably posted it first.
Things aren't likely to change with the IRL - solely out of ignorance, neglect, and sloth. Like some politicians I've worked for over the years, they aren't even smart enough to be evil the right way.
SurfaceUnits
11-01-11, 04:18 PM
Franchitti resumes '12 car in Sebring tomorrow. Nothing will change. This car will be ushered in as Gods gift to IndyCar. No one will care.
So how much hi-tech is gone to be in that new half priced crapwagon? Wil lit boggelt he mined?
let's see 40 year old engine technology
warmed over crapwagon
http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/profile01/121/d7b95d17bd0f463d80f7d1a12e6a2e3e/p.jpg approved
1995 wasn't so bad after all
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-1995-cart-oval-calendar-worth-revisiting/P1
All of this just pisses me off. I hope the family loses another $600 million before this is over.
I see the defenders of the IRL dream say it's now the flat oval track's fault they can't draw flies...morAns. :shakehead
Spicoli
11-01-11, 11:21 PM
:tony::yuck::yuck:
I see the defenders of the IRL dream say it's now the flat oval track's fault they can't draw flies...morAns. :shakehead
dumbass, dontcha ever learnt? It is AL:WAYS ....oh **** I can't even type anymores. lol x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000:yuck:
dumbass, dontcha ever learnt? It is AL:WAYS ....oh **** I can't even type anymores. lol x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000:yuck:
:laugh: Surrounded, they are chewing off big parts of their extremities to get free...
These two articles are excellent, but I would expect that of these two writers. They always got it. But they are still looking at the situation as fans, not as owners.
I don't think that the family hates what CART was in terms of the style of the racing, I just think they don't give a **** as long as their asset is protected. Look at the attendance at last year's Indy 500 -- the fans came back. I would guess the family thinks that they are on the right track.
There were a lot of different factions that were plying different agendas and seemingly all of the anti-CART ones had FTG's ear. Foyt hated everything about CART that wasn't oval-centric. Others hated the "ride-buying" foreigners. Others hated the technology & expense. I always thought that FTG just felt it was his birthright to run the series, but didn't have the guts just to say so.
As for them being on the right track, even if you're right it doesn't make sense that they'd stay on that track for 15 years while they lost, by some reports, $600 million dollars. If money was the only motivating factor, they would have stopped this a long time before they did, IMO.
Mary
***
stroker
11-02-11, 09:10 PM
Okay, I'm convinced. IMS and everything associated with it is beyond saving.
Maybe we need a new thread for this. What's the Grand Plan for starting over? Build a time machine and go back 50 million years?
Build a time machine and go back 50 million years?
I don't know if that is necessary. Let's just borrow the theme of the era, kill off the dinosaurs and herald in a new era of innovation and diversity. :cenozoichumor:
BUT, would anyone care, anymore? We diehard CART based AOW lovers have been told told to piss off.
The damage is done....F u neo-passives...give me some good ole speed metal:
N_FabP2az4s
chop456
11-03-11, 06:59 AM
A compromise of a compromise of a compromise.
It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.
Looks like Randy has another emerging issue to deal with....
Grand Prix 'struggling' financially, facing suits over unpaid bills (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/auto-racing/baltimore-grand-prix/bs-md-grand-prix-suit-20111102,0,7218865,full.story)
Organizers of the Baltimore Grand Prix are grappling with mounting financial problems, including a missed loan payment to the state and lawsuits alleging nearly $1.6 million in unpaid bills — raising questions about their ability to host next year's car-racing event.
Definitely a must read.
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