View Full Version : Las Vegas Futility Thread
I wonder what the announcement is about.,
Chitowncartfreak
10-16-11, 05:22 PM
I wonder what the announcement is about.,
Hope it's just a medical update.
They should just give everyone a refund and call it a day.
Edit: What am I saying....
It's bad
Edit: saw a tweet that was supposedly Ashley's...its not.
This is bad..no airbox.
http://www.openwheelworld.net/photos/original/vQ6hoyzL19639.jpg
The Doctor
10-16-11, 05:34 PM
It does not look good.
Shots of teams not looking good. :(
The Doctor
10-16-11, 05:36 PM
Just the way ABC is framing it, it isn't setting up well.
TKGAngel
10-16-11, 05:37 PM
Cheever sounds like he's going to start weeping on air. I know he's an emotional guy, but this is over his usual level of emotion.
Dan didn't deserve this. I wish they cared more about the drivers than the show.
FCYTravis
10-16-11, 05:38 PM
Edit... cross-posted the above picture with RusH. Jesus. :(
Chitowncartfreak
10-16-11, 05:39 PM
Cheever sounds like he's going to start weeping on air. I know he's an emotional guy, but this is over his usual level of emotion.
I remember how devastated he was after Brayton's death in 1996. This must be brutal for him.
Napoleon
10-16-11, 05:39 PM
I just noticed some eery similarities between this and Moores crash in 1999. (
and the last race of the season.
I don't want to embed photos, but I know many people help process these things by seeing what happened. This page has photos of the crash: http://www.openwheelworld.net/pages/gallery.php?id=294
This AP story has photos of Dan being transported to the helicopter: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iR2LE9-2bmbkDayRfde1DFtCbzCg?docId=86aa025280a34346a689c0 e913fb8cd3
I found them to be disturbing, I can only hope that Dan will be okay. Sad, sad day. I've seen this way too many times.
Napoleon
10-16-11, 05:48 PM
They would have restarted this race by now it that is what they were going to do. The track has been clear for some time.
FCYTravis
10-16-11, 05:49 PM
From Max Papis' Twitter: "I will miss u forever @danwheldon forever"
https://twitter.com/maxpapis/status/125689619223293952
:cry:
Chitowncartfreak
10-16-11, 05:51 PM
From Max Papis' Twitter: "I will miss u forever @danwheldon forever"
:cry:
Damn...
TrueBrit
10-16-11, 05:54 PM
From Max Papis' Twitter: "I will miss u forever @danwheldon forever"
https://twitter.com/maxpapis/status/125689619223293952
That doesn't sound good...
:cry:
BarillaGirl
10-16-11, 05:55 PM
Just got home and saw one of those horrible photos on Facebook, and came right here. **** **** **** **** ****. :cry:
As Peter would say, "Why do I love this horrible sport?"
TKGAngel
10-16-11, 05:56 PM
From the KV Twitter: Drivers returning to their cars to do a five lap parade.
Tifosi24
10-16-11, 05:56 PM
The looks on the faces of the drivers are very telling. Not a great day in motorsports. Thoughts and prayers.
manic mechanic
10-16-11, 05:58 PM
Out of respect I have removed my signature. Hope it's not true. :(
Chitowncartfreak
10-16-11, 05:59 PM
Race series lines are blurred if not totally removed on days like this. All race fans hate days like this - including myself.
Chitowncartfreak
10-16-11, 06:00 PM
Appears to be official :(
Local news busted in with their teaser - not staying with the broadcast. :mad:
Wow, 5 lap salute to Dan. Sounds like it's over. He died.
FCYTravis
10-16-11, 06:01 PM
Rest in peace, Dan.
pfc_m_drake
10-16-11, 06:04 PM
RIP Dan. We'll miss you :cry:
TrueBrit
10-16-11, 06:05 PM
That is terrible news....
High Sided
10-16-11, 06:05 PM
rip dan, you did not deserve this ending.:cry:
BarillaGirl
10-16-11, 06:05 PM
God-speedy-Dan....... :(
His poor little baby boy. :cry:
They need to end this broadcast and race now.
High banked oval tracks are no place for OW cars. What a shame the earl hasn't learned this lesson, and I wonder if they've even learned it yet.
Maimed,crippled drivers and now one that has passed on because of them.
:shakehead
TKGAngel
10-16-11, 06:08 PM
His poor little baby boy. :cry:
They need to end this broadcast and race now.
Two baby boys.
I started tearing up at the Vasser/Kanaan hug. I can't imagine how these drivers are going to go out there and do this.
RIP, Dan. You were one of the good ones.
Don Quixote
10-16-11, 06:08 PM
:(
This replay just confirms my feeling about the IRL and this 5 lap "tribute". Channel turned. :flame:
As they cut away :mad:, what was the 5 lap salute?
Local TV dude doesn't even know what to call the race series.
Shame - young family and lots of potential with a long career as a broadcaster.
:(:(
Stopped watching this crap years ago.
Condolences to his family and friends. :(
Chitowncartfreak
10-16-11, 06:14 PM
I remember when he won Indy this year he was so emotional when talking about his mom, who is currently ill. I feel so horrible for his family.
BarillaGirl
10-16-11, 06:15 PM
It would be exceptionally tasteful if they would stop running the series commercials where the drivers keep repeating, "It's ALL about SPEED." :flame:
FCYTravis
10-16-11, 06:17 PM
http://www.popoffvalve.com/2011/10/16/2494351/indycar-dan-wheldon-killed-at-las-vegas-motor-speedway
DagoFast
10-16-11, 06:18 PM
I'll always remember his smile.
I'll always remember his smile.
He had a million dollar smile.
TravelGal
10-16-11, 06:28 PM
I hadn't watched the race yet but saw it on Facebook. My blood ran cold. I came here to verify. Still haven't watched the race. Can't decide whether to tell TravelGuy or not before he sees it. (Edit: Decided I'd better. He's so upset he's furious.)
DAMMMMIT. DAMMMMIT. DAMMMMIT. :cry:
Chitowncartfreak
10-16-11, 06:30 PM
Oh my gosh - poor Sam Schmidt. He has been devastated the past couple of weeks after the unexpected passing of Chris Griffis and now he has to deal with this. Terrible.
racermike
10-16-11, 06:32 PM
Just now found out ... unreal, and total loss for words right now.
cameraman
10-16-11, 06:33 PM
Who cheers at a tribute lap:saywhat:
BarillaGirl
10-16-11, 06:45 PM
Who cheers at a tribute lap:saywhat:
People in shock who don't know what else to do. Go easy. :(
JohnHKart
10-16-11, 06:54 PM
I'm devastated at this turn of events. F***K!
Chitowncartfreak
10-16-11, 06:58 PM
http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=BG&Dato=20111016&Kategori=SPORTS0107&Lopenr=111016014&Ref=TS&NewTbl=1&MaxW=620&Border=0&Indy-500-champ-Wheldon-dies-Las-Vegas-race
RIP Dan
stroker
10-16-11, 07:02 PM
I never would have wished that on the poor bastard.
stroker
10-16-11, 07:23 PM
I can't think of a better send-off to the Dart than the
Ultimate
Epic
Fail
Where's the popcorn smilie?
Jeebus. I about called that one.
Screw the popcorn...
:(
indyfan31
10-16-11, 07:28 PM
This is incredibly sad. It's so hard to believe that just a few months ago he was on top of the world.
http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/FFAk2N.A6t2ZJGNxRsqAnw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00NTc7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2011-10-16T220739Z_01_SIN102_RTRIDSP_3_MOTOR-RACING.jpg
Open wheel racing in America is now officially dead! That's it; it's over. :shakehead:thumdown: They finally managed to kill the sport we loved so much. It's a sad day. This was pure madness!
In all honestly, I would like to know; what was safer, F1 in the 70's and 80's or Indy Car racing on ovals these last 20 years?
I'm sorry Dan Wheldon died during this stupid stunt orchestrated by Indy Car....
I haven't followed American OW racing in years, but this is truly terrible news. Never would have wished that on anyone. The replay footage and photos are disturbingly brutal reminders of this dangerous sport we love so much. Godspeed, Dan.
Kiwifan
10-16-11, 07:59 PM
This is the very first IRL race I have tuned in to. I was all up for a laugh but ended up with tears.
I don't know what to say. Thoughts go out to family, friends and anyone associated with racing in any form.
RIP mate. :cry:
SurfaceUnits
10-16-11, 08:11 PM
fitting that this should be the last futility thread :shakehead
Michaelhatesfans
10-16-11, 08:15 PM
I saw that this thread had jumped by about four pages since I was hear last and my hunch was that it wasn't good... What a waste.:(
I want to know what went down in that drivers meeting. I've never heard of a race not being finished simply "out of respect."
Say what you will about CART, but at least when they realized that Texas was the wrong track, they were brave enough to admit it and call it off before someone was seriously hurt. If Dario did indeed speak out beforehand and say that it was the wrong track for these cars, you can imagine what he was saying today when Dan's announcement was made.
Napoleon
10-16-11, 08:21 PM
. . . you can imagine what he was saying today when Dan's announcement was made.
You mean something like "I have no ****ing intention of going back out there - I am going to show up in the winner circle to collect my championship trophy and you better have it ready in front of the cameras"
Guaranteed that this was the last Indy Car race for at least 1/2 drivers today; if there is indeed a series next year. No way Hamilton, Pippa Mann nor Franchitti will ever step foot in an Indy car ever again....
Michaelhatesfans
10-16-11, 08:27 PM
You mean something like "I have no ****ing intention of going back out there - I am going to show up in the winner circle to collect my championship trophy and you better have it ready in front of the cameras"
Something like that, yes. But not as nice.
500 winners killed the year they won Indy;
Gaston Chevrolet won the Indianapolis 500 in 1920 and was killed in a race at Beverly Hills, Calif. In 1929, Ray Keech won the race and was killed the next month at Altoona, Pa. In 1946, George Robson won the Indianapolis 500 and was killed later that year in a race at Atlanta.
Were they racing in ancient, unsafe, ****boxes with a track record of killing/maiming drivers?
This spectacle is exactly what the IRL wanted to create. Damn them to hell. :mad:
BarillaGirl
10-16-11, 09:28 PM
.
What rabbit said. :(
In other news, what's everyone ELSE drinking tonight? :cry:
stroker
10-16-11, 09:37 PM
What rabbit said. :(
In other news, what's everyone ELSE drinking tonight? :cry:
whatever it is, it's probably not enough.
:(
Napoleon
10-16-11, 09:40 PM
500 winners killed the year they won Indy;
Gaston Chevrolet won the Indianapolis 500 in 1920 and was killed in a race at Beverly Hills, Calif. In 1929, Ray Keech won the race and was killed the next month at Altoona, Pa. In 1946, George Robson won the Indianapolis 500 and was killed later that year in a race at Atlanta.
Bill Vukovich was the last reigning champ to die when he was leading the 55 500. He had won in 53 and 54.
Artemus
10-16-11, 09:43 PM
Were they racing in ancient, unsafe, ****boxes with a track record of killing/maiming drivers?
This spectacle is exactly what the IRL wanted to create. Damn them to hell. :mad:
Way back in 1996 I made a post on rec.autos.sport.indy after the first IRL race at that track that was something like "Does anyone else think that open-wheel cars had no business being anywhere near that track?" About all that shocks me is that there haven't been far more of these incidents on the idiotic high-banked ovals. (I saw the first couple laps by coincidence but changed the channel when I saw the "pack racing". Glad I did.)
BarillaGirl
10-16-11, 09:44 PM
whatever it is, it's probably not enough.
:(
I have been deliberately NOT indulging for the last six weeks, but tonight I'm on Beer Two and don't know where I'm stopping. There is too much Fing pain and stupid loss. :mad:
What rabbit said. :(
In other news, what's everyone ELSE drinking tonight? :cry:
Milk.
Bill Vukovich was the last reigning champ to die when he was leading the 55 500. He had won in 53 and 54.
The list I read was drivers who died the same year they won. When I initially read it, I had wondered why Vukovich wasn't included because he was the name that came to mind.
My gut says Dario retires, maybe TK.
SurfaceUnits
10-16-11, 10:42 PM
Who cheers at a tribute lap:saywhat:
Chris Paff and other gomers,,they must not have been selling beer or the cans would have been flying as well
My gut says Dario retires, maybe TK.
Or they go Jacky Stewart and demand changes
BarillaGirl
10-16-11, 10:55 PM
Their lives are on the line if they continue with this dangerous nonsense. Why on earth would you want to change this system from within, especially if you have a family? I hope everyone effing walks away. It's not worth it.
Or they go Jacky Stewart and demand changes
They are gutless and powerless, and that's just how the Hulmans want 'em.
EDIT: I've been reading and from what I've seen drivers are very upset and one specifically demands a drivers union be formed to address the dangers. We're back in 1978 it seems.
JohnHKart
10-17-11, 12:23 AM
What rabbit said. :(
In other news, what's everyone ELSE drinking tonight? :cry:
Between this and being at Reno, I need a party to end all parties to drown my sorrow. I cannot drink tonight, because then I could not work tomorrow. I haven't had much to drink lately. Thankfully today I had taxes and worked on removing parts in the junk yard to take my mind off this (been working for the past 5 hours straight). Very very sorry. I want to cry!
RIP
I only just saw it on the local news teaser. No such thing as bad exposure - right Randy? :thumdown:
For what?? The 2000 people that were there? The white noise TV ratings? the non-existent sponsors? So the Hulman-George bunch can continue to delude themselves about the value of IMS?
Futility - yep.
FWIW - Bruton Smith's outfit NASCAR'd the track since the last open wheel race (2005 CCWS) and upped the banking from 12° to 20°.
Napoleon
10-17-11, 04:47 AM
Chris Paff and other gomers
So who is this Chris?
cameraman
10-17-11, 07:17 AM
So who is this Chris?
An true idiot from trackforum. We don't need to go down that road.
Anteater
10-17-11, 09:20 AM
I had a very bad feeling about this race--too many drivers on an unsuitable track, coupled with too much hype and hubris. :( My husband broke the news to me when I met him in the neighborhood dog park, where I surprised both him and myself by bursting into tears and crying out "Noooo!" I don't follow the IRL, but no one should have to die like that.
An true idiot from trackforum. We don't need to go down that road.
Agreed.
Napoleon
10-17-11, 09:33 AM
This is a pretty good series of pictures. About 1/2 are from the wreck and 1/2 are highlights of Dan's career.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/indycar-driver-wheldon-killed-in-massive-wreck/2011/10/16/gIQAOWcbpL_gallery.html#photo=1
cameraman
10-17-11, 11:53 AM
As for the decision not to restart I think a large segment of the drivers knew that the track was unsuited to IRL cars and the crash wouldn't change anything. Unlike the other ovals they race on this track is very smooth and the high banking means that they never need to lift. If they had restarted they would have found themselves in another, smaller pack going 225 mph three abreast. There is no other way to race those cars on that track. Randy came up with the tribute idea and the wiser drivers immediately went for it, any port in a storm.
What I do not understand is that when LVMS announced that they were rebanking the track a couple years ago EVERONE's response was that open wheel cars will never run there again. Yet here they were.
I actually watched the race wondering how they thought that they were going to pull this off. Then I saw Tagliani bounce off somebody and knew that this was going to be a disaster and then a minute or two later it was. My immediate reaction was how many people did they just kill?
The people involved had to know that this was a disaster waiting to happen. The speeds were higher than the other tracks and the field was too large. Why did no one involved, especially the senior contracted drivers, open their mouths and say something?
Rogue Leader
10-17-11, 12:08 PM
As for the decision not to restart I think a large segment of the drivers knew that the track was unsuited to IRL cars and the crash wouldn't change anything. Unlike the other ovals they race on this track is very smooth and the high banking means that they never need to lift. If they had restarted they would have found themselves in another, smaller pack going 225 mph three abreast. There is no other way to race those cars on that track. Randy came up with the tribute idea and the wiser drivers immediately went for it, any port in a storm.
What I do not understand is that when LVMS announced that they were rebanking the track a couple years ago EVERONE's response was that open wheel cars will never run there again. Yet here they were.
I actually watched the race wondering how they thought that they were going to pull this off. Then I saw Tagliani bounce off somebody and knew that this was going to be a disaster and then a minute or two later it was. My immediate reaction was how many people did they just kill?
The people involved had to know that this was a disaster waiting to happen. The speeds were higher than the other tracks and the field was too large. Why did no one involved, especially the senior contracted drivers, open their mouths and say something?
Exactly, Indy speeds in a 1.5 mile centrifuge. Exactly what you'd expect to happen, did.
Napoleon
10-17-11, 12:18 PM
Why did no one involved, especially the senior contracted drivers, open their mouths and say something?
Wasn't Dario quoted as saying he had told them it was not suited?
racer2c
10-17-11, 12:51 PM
I think everyone involved had to know the potential catastrophic outcome of this stunt. I hold them all accountable. Rodeo Randy is probably the least informed about autoracing but Barnhardt, Penske, Ganassi etc and shouldn't have allowed this. Sure hindsight is 20/20 but Dans death should motivate a paradigm shift of how/who runs IndyCar and the team owners, drivers and fans should demand it. Yesterday I was heartbroken, today I'm pissed.
BarillaGirl
10-17-11, 12:56 PM
I think everyone involved had to know the potential catastrophic outcome of this stunt. I hold them all accountable. Rodeo Randy is probably the least informed about autoracing but Barnhardt, Penske, Ganassi etc and shouldn't have allowed this. Sure hindsight is 20/20 but Dans death should motivate a paradigm shift of how/who runs IndyCar and the team owners, drivers and fans should demand it. Yesterday I was heartbroken, today I'm pissed.
There is precedent for the team owners to park their cars and refuse to play if they think the race conditions are unsafe. cf. "tiregate" at the US F1 GP.
Unfortunately, the sum of ego and momentum leads to situation in which the owners with real influence start to think "Well, we might make it through this if nobody screws up" and just keep their mouths shut. Today, NOBODY can claim that "this kind of thing" can't happen. It has, it did, it does. :flame:
Andrew Longman
10-17-11, 01:08 PM
My gut says Dario retires, maybe TK.I had exactly the same thought last night.
Dario doesn't need this. If Mercedes were interested in LeMans his connections might take him to sports cars. Otherwise, what's he got to prove? I can surely see his wife asking him to stop. What would he have to say?
TK maybe not as much. He doesn't have Dario's money. He hasn't won Indy. But he could be racing saloon cars or semis in Brazil.
Ed_Severson
10-17-11, 01:11 PM
I have no basis for this other than a hunch, but I think Dario is finished. He's won four championships in a row and two 500s. There's no point anymore.
Tony I'm not so sure about. He has a young son but it seems like this partnership with KV has reignited his career to an extent. I can see him sticking around a couple more years, but it wouldn't surprise me if he hangs it up over the winter.
Andrew Longman
10-17-11, 01:15 PM
What I do not understand is that when LVMS announced that they were rebanking the track a couple years ago EVERONE's response was that open wheel cars will never run there again. Yet here they were.I remember that and I was among them. When this was announced I instantly thought it was a bad idea... but I also assumed/hoped they would somehow dodge another bullet.
My immediate reaction was how many people did they just kill?I was in the other room watching the Giants, but Nick and Trevor were watching it. I heard Nick scream like I've never heard him. Trevor came in and said he thought he just watched someone die.
Why did no one involved, especially the senior contracted drivers, open their mouths and say something?Group think? I don't know. Why did it take Jackie Stewart to get drivers to put their foot down in F1? They are competitive. Once you've signed up for and accepted a certain level of risk, I guess you sign up far all of it. I guess. :shakehead
But that is also why we watch them and appreciate their skill.
Napoleon
10-17-11, 01:37 PM
Group think?
I would argue it is the exact opposite of group thing and is one reason why employers do not like employees forming unions, because it makes them less likely to go along with the employer's stupid ideas. It was not Barnhart or Bernard that was going to die out there. If every driver is making a decision on what to do based on just their immediate self-interest it is a lot less likely that they are going to do what is collectively in their self-interest. I mean, do you really think Dario was going to ever sit that race out unless everyone else did, or at least those who could catch him in the points. And if you could catch Dario would you agree to sit out with Dario? How about Weldon who didn’t have a regular ride until he signed a contract with Andretti Sunday morning? He was going to take the brave stand and sit it out or threaten to?
The IRL knows that unless the drivers are totally united they can beat them using divide and conquer.
Think Japanese proverb “The nail that sticks up will be hammered down”.
Racing Truth
10-17-11, 02:50 PM
I have no basis for this other than a hunch, but I think Dario is finished. He's won four championships in a row and two 500s. There's no point anymore.
Tony I'm not so sure about. He has a young son but it seems like this partnership with KV has reignited his career to an extent. I can see him sticking around a couple more years, but it wouldn't surprise me if he hangs it up over the winter.
Listening to Dario, yesterday, yeah he's done. He's done all he can in the sport. BTW: Seeing Davey Hamilton describe it as the scariest wreck he's ever seen was chilling, given his past.
I think TK would still like a 500 win, but he's now lost TWO friends- Greg and Dan. Can he go on?
Like Trevor, I instantly thought "We lost someone there." That it was Dan is really hard to take.
Godspeed Dan.:(:(
Andrew Longman
10-17-11, 03:22 PM
I would argue it is the exact opposite of group think...What you describe is also technically group think. If BB had privately asked each driver what he/she thought there is a good chance that more than one would have expressed deep reservations.
In full group, people tend not to want to be the "nail" that stands out -- or in this case the driver who looks weak or not totally committed to beating everyone else in the room.
It takes someone like Jackie, who no one doubted thought he could beat anyone because he had to stand up and be the first to say, "No".
That is not to say at all that Dario, or any other driver should have. Frankly that is a lot to expect from any driver.
No Chip, Roger, Andretti, Vassar, many other experienced owners who really should know better and who have lost drivers and friends? Maybe there is something there.
But at Texas, wasn't it Olvey who had to stop the madness?
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