View Full Version : Suzuka
cameraman
10-09-11, 01:03 AM
Kobayashi will start seventh, his career best grid position. He got there by not turning a fast lap...
TrueBrit
10-09-11, 03:40 AM
I didn't catch the beginning of the broadcast, but was it delayed at all on Speed? The reason I ask is that the bbc text coverage was about 15-20 laps ahead.....???
Trevor Longman
10-09-11, 07:55 AM
Yeah the V8 supercars ran long so they delayed the broadcast by a bit.
opinionated ow
10-09-11, 09:17 AM
Very artificial race. Stupid tyres-no excuse for that in a control tyre environment!
Vettel = Buttmacher :thumdown::thumdown::thumdown:
Button is da man :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
stroker
10-09-11, 11:55 AM
Okay, you guys are smarter than me. Explain this.
The fast tires are 1 to 2 sec/lap faster than the control tires but last only 10 laps. The Delta for a pit stop is 23 seconds. Why use the soft tire? You have a net loss of time using the fast tire instead of using the slow tire and going 20 laps? Seems to me that if you qualified on the soft tire, you run the snot out of it for 8 laps, pit to put on the harder compound then try to be Jenson Button for 20 laps making only one more pit stop for hards. Two stops only. If you started the race on the harder compound, you run to lap 20-something, change again to the hards, then pit again around lap 45 then make your requisite change to the softs for the last few laps when you're low on fuel... I don't get running the softs when you're heavy with fuel at all.
Pilgrims Drop
10-09-11, 01:08 PM
Vettel = Buttmacher :thumdown::thumdown::thumdown:
Button is da man :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
No Vettel is far from Buttmacher class... very far... He made one move, a very distinctive move and that's it... MSC weaved a whole lot more...
Im getting increasingly tired of drivers claiming to be alongside when their front tyres are barely level with the other cars rear tyres. And I was very suprised that Button used that line today...
But Button drove a hell of a race that's for sure...
Kiwifan
10-09-11, 01:16 PM
Don't know if you guys got to see the pre presentation cool down room but Jenson but still pretty miffed. "Did you not see me at the start?" "Were you in front of me?" "So that's how we are racing now?" Smiles all round but....
BarillaGirl
10-09-11, 01:49 PM
Don't know if you guys got to see the pre presentation cool down room but Jenson but still pretty miffed. "Did you not see me at the start?" "Were you in front of me?" "So that's how we are racing now?" Smiles all round but....
Nope, didn't see this on the 'merican SPEED broadcast. Thanks for letting us know!
racer2c
10-09-11, 06:45 PM
No Vettel is far from Buttmacher class... very far... He made one move, a very distinctive move and that's it... MSC weaved a whole lot more...
Im getting increasingly tired of drivers claiming to be alongside when their front tyres are barely level with the other cars rear tyres. And I was very suprised that Button used that line today...
But Button drove a hell of a race that's for sure...
Wonderkind pushed Button into the grass. Period.
No Vettel is far from Buttmacher class... very far... He made one move, a very distinctive move and that's it... MSC weaved a whole lot more...
Im getting increasingly tired of drivers claiming to be alongside when their front tyres are barely level with the other cars rear tyres. And I was very suprised that Button used that line today...
But Button drove a hell of a race that's for sure...
B.S.
That was Buttmacher's distinctive move - the "if you try to pass me on the start I will put you off, so don't even think about it" patented SchuieSwerve.
Being "alongside" in the sense you mean is about being far enough inside the car you are passing when approaching the apex of a curve. They were nowhere near the apex. Vettel intentionally ran him onto the grass, period.
If Hamilton had done that he would have been penalized for sure. The steward system in F1 is a ****ing joke.
opinionated ow
10-09-11, 08:37 PM
Button's front tyres weren't even past Vettel's. You have to be alongside to pass and if you're not then you're not. This is European racing not American; different rules and this is how it has always been. Harsh yes but fair. Even Brundle and Coulthard said that...
racer2c
10-09-11, 08:47 PM
And here I thought it was international racing. Silly me.
opinionated ow
10-09-11, 09:13 PM
Okay, you guys are smarter than me. Explain this.
The fast tires are 1 to 2 sec/lap faster than the control tires but last only 10 laps. The Delta for a pit stop is 23 seconds. Why use the soft tire? You have a net loss of time using the fast tire instead of using the slow tire and going 20 laps? Seems to me that if you qualified on the soft tire, you run the snot out of it for 8 laps, pit to put on the harder compound then try to be Jenson Button for 20 laps making only one more pit stop for hards. Two stops only. If you started the race on the harder compound, you run to lap 20-something, change again to the hards, then pit again around lap 45 then make your requisite change to the softs for the last few laps when you're low on fuel... I don't get running the softs when you're heavy with fuel at all.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that maybe the hard tyres wouldn't have lasted long enough with more fuel than what they had in their final stints
Kiwifan
10-10-11, 12:24 AM
My take on the start was Vettel was trying to force Jensen off, MB and DC thought it was a bit naughty and if it had happened "in the race" and not "at the start" there would have been a penalty but at the end of the day it came down to Charlie Whiting "no penalties at the start" and Alan Jones "aggressive ex driver".
I can see why JB was upset though, you are supposed to race on the track. :)
z4Kg9YKeg5g
Takes off and holds his line until he sees Button coming up, moves right to block, then moved left to make corner.
I'm half and half on the move. Its hard, but nice guys finish last in racing.
racer2c
10-10-11, 09:01 AM
z4Kg9YKeg5g
Takes off and holds his line until he sees Button coming up, moves right to block, then moved left to make corner.
I'm half and half on the move. Its hard, but nice guys finish last in racing.
Unless you're JB, who won the race. :D
Which really makes the whole thing moot anyway. No penalty issued, JB took the win, SB took the championship.
We saw Sebs emerging 'style' however.
Pilgrims Drop
10-10-11, 09:28 AM
We saw Sebs emerging 'style' however.
Which is no different to Alonsos, Louises, Schumachers, Prosts, Sennas etc etc
You can find similar clips of all drivers... Im suprised that Button didn't see the move coming and went to the outside instead... he was moving that way initially but changed his mind... had he been further up he would've made the move stick but the layout of the track worked in Vettels favour...
Justice was made in the end and the stewards didn't screw things up... apart from the safety car which reeked of taxicab racing
racer2c
10-10-11, 09:57 AM
Which is no different to Alonsos, Louises, Schumachers, Prosts, Sennas etc etc
You can find similar clips of all drivers... Im suprised that Button didn't see the move coming and went to the outside instead... he was moving that way initially but changed his mind... had he been further up he would've made the move stick but the layout of the track worked in Vettels favour...
Justice was made in the end and the stewards didn't screw things up... apart from the safety car which reeked of taxicab racing
Sure you can. The reason anyone is even talking about it is because it tarnishes superboys squeaky clean image when in reality, he's just like the rest....in a great car.
Insomniac
10-10-11, 11:43 AM
Okay, you guys are smarter than me. Explain this.
The fast tires are 1 to 2 sec/lap faster than the control tires but last only 10 laps. The Delta for a pit stop is 23 seconds. Why use the soft tire? You have a net loss of time using the fast tire instead of using the slow tire and going 20 laps? Seems to me that if you qualified on the soft tire, you run the snot out of it for 8 laps, pit to put on the harder compound then try to be Jenson Button for 20 laps making only one more pit stop for hards. Two stops only. If you started the race on the harder compound, you run to lap 20-something, change again to the hards, then pit again around lap 45 then make your requisite change to the softs for the last few laps when you're low on fuel... I don't get running the softs when you're heavy with fuel at all.
My guess is the improvement in performance of the soft over medium with more fuel is greater than when the car is lighter. At the end of the day, you want to be up front to avoid as much traffic/passing as possible and in case of safety cars (you'll get passed by cars on yellow tires) and you really want the shortest time to complete 53 laps.
TrueBrit
10-10-11, 03:27 PM
SV's move was very reminiscent of Buttmacher's on Hakkinen at Spa one year...
After his appearance on Top Gear (non-suck version) this year I must admit I have warmed up to him quite considerably...however, if he continues to pull this sort of pointy-chinned, dirty, cheating, chopping type of crap, then he will have to go back onto the top of my sh** list...
JB was very impressive, and has for me been the star of the McLaren team this year. Chocolate Jeebus has gone off the boil, but judging by his post-race comments, which were remarkably honest, he is blaming no-one but himself, so it will be interesting to see if/how long, before he gets back into form...
I used to really dislike that track, but after the dog's dinner that is the 'new' Fuji track, I must say it's a nice breath of fresh air to go back to a track that hasn't been Tilke'd to death...
Kiwifan
10-10-11, 07:55 PM
MB and DC said although it was a narrow track it was more like the older traditional F1 tracks that there were no large run-off areas so if you did go off, you were off.
On ANY racing sims I suck at this track. :)
opinionated ow
10-10-11, 09:40 PM
MB and DC said although it was a narrow track it was more like the older traditional F1 tracks that there were no large run-off areas so if you did go off, you were off.
On ANY racing sims I suck at this track. :)
Second best circuit in the world...Hugenholtz designed some top tracks!
Hard Driver
10-12-11, 12:49 PM
B.S.
That was Buttmacher's distinctive move - the "if you try to pass me on the start I will put you off, so don't even think about it" patented SchuieSwerve.
Being "alongside" in the sense you mean is about being far enough inside the car you are passing when approaching the apex of a curve. They were nowhere near the apex. Vettel intentionally ran him onto the grass, period.
If Hamilton had done that he would have been penalized for sure. The steward system in F1 is a ****ing joke.
+1
That was not entering a corner. That was on the strait when Vettel decided to drive Jenson onto the grass. Personally, I think Jenson should have held his line on the edge of the track and let Vettel swerve into him on the strait. It would serve Vettel right to be taken out before the first corner.
Vettel is talented enough he does not need to drive dirty like that.
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