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Early reports of P-51 down into grandstands. Not picked up any major media yet. Lots of FD and EMS activity. :(
Local TV feed here (http://www.ktvn.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?vt1=l&d1=0&ClipId1=mms%3A//a853.l3173335588.c31733.n.lm.akamaistream.net/D/853/31733/v0001/reflector%3A35588&LiveURI=mms%3A//a853.l3173335588.c31733.n.lm.akamaistream.net/D/853/31733/v0001/reflector%3A35588&h1=Watch%20LIVE%20Coverage&at1=News&LiveURITitle=Watch%20LIVE%20Coverage&LaunchPageAdTag=News&fvCatNo=undefined&secure=undefined&akPort=undefined&akProfile=undefined&rnd=31665065)
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9PPUI001&show_article=1
:(
-Kevin
Geez....On CNN now. Video looked like it hit the ground (?) People are injured. The plane had pulled up, apparently to get off the course and issued a "May Day". There are likely fatalities.
Fire and EMS radio feeds from Reno:
http://renoscanner.com/
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/survivors/pages/44-15651.shtml
Fire and EMS radio feeds from Reno:
http://renoscanner.com/
currently offline
nissan gtp
09-16-11, 08:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCNePeKn3Tg
currently offline
I am sure they got slammed.
Last I heard before it went offline was that all mutual aid assistance was being returned.
12 dead, 75 injured, per local news. horrific
I've been there, I've watched from the main grandstand near the center. No way "only" 12 fatalities if it hit a grandstand. There are box seats all along the front of the stands directly on the Tarmac. My guess is flying debris INTO those boxes caused the casualties. No fire? No fuel?:confused:
cameraman
09-17-11, 12:09 AM
He went in at a very steep angle, that limited the impact area to some extent.
Napoleon
09-17-11, 06:13 AM
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/09/17/us/17reno3_337_span/17reno3_337_span-articleLarge.jpg
Kiwifan
09-17-11, 07:03 AM
That is terrible. Thoughts to all who were there.
I used to "worry" about the Aussie choppers flying around the Gold Coast during race weekend as they were quite low and "if" something had gone wrong there would have been carnage like there was here.
Wheel-Nut
09-17-11, 12:17 PM
MSNBC has a few photos, this is one from there.
See pic 7...no pilot visible
http://www.rgj.com/article/20110916/EVENTS05/110916036/Complete-first-day-coverage-Reno-air-race-crash-killed-least-3-injured-more-than-55
See pic 7...no pilot visible
Amazing that the deaths and injuries are so limited.
Canopy is in place in the photo - pilot unconscious from G-loading?
BarillaGirl
09-17-11, 06:54 PM
Elmo T, that's what I was wondering. Maybe the seat bracket even broke from the stresses?
So sad, but he made a good final decision to bring it down as far away from the stands as he could. That could have been so much worse.
opinionated ow
09-17-11, 06:57 PM
This is definitely tragic but I hope they don't give in to pressure and cancel the races forever.
I saw a photograph on FoxNews.com that showed what looks like an elevator trim tab breaking off.
Here's the link http://video.foxnews.com/v/1165472720001/deadly-plane-crash-at-air-show-in-reno
This is definitely tragic but I hope they don't give in to pressure and cancel the races forever.
This isn't going to help -
WWII-era plane crashes in West Virginia air show, killing pilot (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/09/ww11-era-plane-crashes-in-west-virginia-air-show-pilot-killed.html)
Something definitely up with that plane's tail in the photo.
JohnHKart
09-18-11, 10:10 AM
I just walked in the door and just sent this email to a friend. As always I was in the pits watching the gold race. Knew instantly at pull up it was a catastrophic failure and began taking evasive action. When the airplanes pull out of the races it's a smooth straight ahead upward motion. I've never seen an airplane pull up at that angle. The sound was indiscribable, like a low guttral sound, , not just the engine. The airplane headed right over the top of us before crashing into the stands area, I really thought it was going into the main grandstand and it's a miracle it hit where it did. Carrol Shelby and Bob Hoover were in the pit area and very close to the accident, it almost could of got them! I and my friends all feel lucky to be alive.
I predicted this accident to a coworker on Thursday just before leaving and until the last week, when I always get excited, I really did not want to be there this year. I had bad feelings about it and almost cancelled last month but got stuck in too deep as I had cancelled gigs to be there. During the end of the Senna documentary two weeks ago I got a very, very grave feeling about Reno and a voice in my head said there was going to be a huge accident. While leaving my room Friday, I thought of looking back at my room and was thinking of Jackie Stewart's quote about looking back up his driveway when he would leave for races. It's a terrible tragedy for all the families and those that had to see this that aren't battle scarred veterans like me and can't handle it. I knew this day was coming and while it hurts and I'm upset, I was there watching the very thing I'd predicted one day would take place. I hope the event and air racing can continue, I just don't want to be a part of it for awhile, if ever. I just don't have the nerves to stand there and watch this anymore.
It was strange I had picked a hiking trip up Mt Rose to break up the weekend saturday and ended up going there anyway, it helped me deal with this.
My first trip to the races was Sept 17, 1988 and yesterday I pulled out of town 23 years to the day and ten races for me later. Again, I hope they can continue.
Wait, so you were there?
Any chance you can trim that post up a bit and write what you saw?
It was obvious that he had a failure?
Did it appear (to you) that the pilot was trying to avoid the stands? (that's been stated elsewhere)
What was the aftermath like? One video shows an EMT-type getting pretty forceful trying to keep people clear. Were people trying to help, or staying away?
Sadness to the families. :(
9 dead and 9 still critical.
JohnHKart
09-18-11, 05:49 PM
All I saw was a very violent and strange pitch up and the airplane heading towards us and over the top of us then heading straight down. I knew instantly it was failure, airplanes do not fly that way when under control. Today's LA Times has a pic that shows everything: Missing trim tab and unconcious pilot with helmet against the instrument panel. Despite what some have said, there clearly were no last minute heroics. The helmet never appears in any of the pics as it goes down. If he had been concious he probably still had aileron and rudder control and could have veered off to the desert. The same accident happened to Bob Button about 13 years ago and he was able to gain control. One of the forums is waiting to talk to him, since he's the only one with first hand experience of this. He also was thrown forward against the panel. None of the pics show any rudder or aileron movement or elevators either.
http://www.latimes.com/media/graphic/2011-09/64830483.jpg
here's that same pic better view at Yahoo:
http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Vy6fF0D.pWevRzT36FCQRQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD01MTk7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/5e7548b1ec89fb14f80e6a70670062b6.jpg
Napoleon
09-18-11, 07:48 PM
Despite what some have said, there clearly were no last minute heroics.
I could go on for a year straight at how one of the biggest of the many failed institutions in this country is the media, but to limit it here a couple of recent crashes near me where anyone with 2 functioning brain cells could tell from the particulars that in no way did either pilot in any way even remotely controlled where the plane came down you still had the media running with the preprogrammed story of the heroic last seconds of the pilot trying to avoid killing people and when you would channel surf to see what kind of objective evidence they had of it, it was less then zero. It was a totally fabricated story line.
JohnHKart
09-19-11, 01:46 AM
Planes of Fame's founder really put things in perspective for me Friday afternoon by mentioning all the auto accidents every year, yet we keep driving. And sure enough in today's La Times there's an article that includes over 36,000 killed in auto accidents in 2009 (article was about how prescription drugs are taking over, killing over 37,000.) I'm feeling much better today, I hope the races continue, I will be back at some point.
JohnHKart
09-19-11, 01:52 AM
I could go on for a year straight at how one of the biggest of the many failed institutions in this country is the media, but to limit it here a couple of recent crashes near me where anyone with 2 functioning brain cells could tell from the particulars that in no way did either pilot in any way even remotely controlled where the plane came down you still had the media running with the preprogrammed story of the heroic last seconds of the pilot trying to avoid killing people and when you would channel surf to see what kind of objective evidence they had of it, it was less then zero. It was a totally fabricated story line.
True! And watching some of the footage, they're they go again with describing Mr. Leeward with that stupid media driven "stunt pilot" word. God I hate that line! Nobody in this business uses that!
As to why I feared and predicted this accident, I was there 12 years ago today when Gary Levitz's airplane broke up off the first pylon. So this is my second incident. I was a lot calmer when this second one happened, I couldn't breathe the first time. I just said oh no as it went down. Yelling anything and becoming histrionic wasn't going to help. I was emotional afterwards and I have cried a few times since then, so I'm not some insensitive ice person.
Editorial in Reno Gazette Journal online (http://www.rgj.com/article/20110918/OPED01/110917030/RGJ-editorial-Air-race-tragedy-wake-up-call?odyssey=mod|mostcom)
Now is not the time to call for an end to the air races.
But in the months ahead, after the investigation is complete, our community will have a decision to make.
If ending the air races is ultimately the right thing to do, we must have the courage to do so
Rogue Leader
09-19-11, 09:30 AM
I really hope his doesn't mean an end to the races. I feel bad for all that were lost but it happens, not only that, its NEVER happened like this before.
In NY we do this fire dept racing called Drill Team with souped up "fire trucks" doing different firefighting type competitiions. Recently 4 guys were injured (one critically) during practice when their race rig went out of control and the first thing everyone called for was to ban racing. :shakehead
http://nysdrillteams.com/ If anyone wants to see what it is.
In NY we do this fire dept racing called Drill Team with souped up "fire trucks" doing different firefighting type competitiions.
I personally don't get the drill team thing, but agree with the sentiment.
I am assuming the question is more about the fans though. At many spectator sports, there is an element of danger - be it foul balls, errant pucks, car parts, golf balls, etc. Is air racing inherently more dangerous? I think not.
LeMans '55, Monza '61, Michigan '??...there is a LONG list. Learn from the mistake and make the necessary changes. Merely pointing out how many drivers are killed on American highways is a VERY weak argument in trying to defend continuation of any dangerous sport but changes may need to be made. Heck, aren't more kids killed and crippled every year playing football than died in Reno? Didn't we kill nearly as many people on our roads in ONE year as we did in Vietnam in TEN? I don't think that is a stat that should be used to defend war! The drivers and pilots accept the risks of their sport/profession but spectators should NEVER have to share that risk. (I said should, not that they DON'T.)
cameraman
09-19-11, 09:42 PM
Really, how much can you do at an air race? If you are close enough to be able to see the aircraft as anything larger than fly specs then you will be within the range of an out of control aircraft going 500 mph. Maybe you set the course off to one side of the stands but if a plane breaks & goes out of control in the direction of the stands, there just isn't much that you can do.
This video of the accident looks like WWII footage of a kamikaze attack on a US carrier.
Jesus H tap dancing Christ. :eek:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/horrific-new-video-shows-close-up-of-reno-plane-as-it-crashed/
People do not like seeing airplanes slam into things. No way this event survives unchanged. And, if an IndyCar gets anywhere near the grater at Vegas they'll get swept away too.
CTV news is reporting that his seat was broken. Don't know if that was caused by the g-forces but it seems likely. That would explain why there is no sign of the pilot in some of the pics.
JohnHKart
09-20-11, 09:53 PM
The seat breaking (like the never happened "heroic last minute maneuvers") appears to be more media stupidity. When Hannah had his identical accident in 1998 at Reno the ten gs threw him from the belts onto the panel and floor, the seat didn't break. It's really only dumb luck he didn't crash too.
These threads have lot of good info and debunking of stuff.
http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/showthread.php?t=9271
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42551&start=270
High Sided
09-20-11, 11:10 PM
These threads have lot of good info and debunking of stuff.
http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/showpost.php?p=92400&postcount=18
JohnHKart
09-21-11, 09:31 PM
I spoke with my friend who was standing next to me, he's a warbird seller and ran a company that rebuilt mustangs. He really knows his stuff. He says the seat may very well have broken. It was an interesting call. I'm not having a good day today. Still having a lot of trouble dealing with the emotional impact of this. I'm having good days and then bad ones. What surprised me is even he doesn't think he can go back there again, and he's the jaded industry inside veteran!
Thank you for sharing your perspective & experience on this tragedy. I cannot imagine standing there and seeing that in person. I don't even like watching it on video.
PTSD. Not just for combat vets and cops anymore.
Take care. :)
Michaelhatesfans
09-22-11, 02:15 AM
I didn't realize the pilot had done some IMSA racing, as well...
http://www.motorsportretro.com/2011/09/1982-march-82g/
Michaelhatesfans
09-22-11, 02:20 AM
John, take care of yourself - don't be afraid to get some help with that if it stays with you for too long. Whatever sleep you've gotten since then is probably a lot more than I would have managed. I know you're thinking about the victims, but don't forget to keep an eye on yourself, as well.
JohnHKart
09-22-11, 02:53 AM
Thanks so much. Sleep seems to be ok...just being awake is tough. Damm, next time I get that many bad premonitions I'm listening to them!
JohnHKart
09-27-11, 12:13 AM
Thanks again for concerns. Thankfully last weekend I had a getaway to a cool gig in Ny with my Doors tribute and pizza in New Jersey at Star Tavern and I'm back to full mental health.
Michaelhatesfans
09-27-11, 02:50 PM
:thumbup:
The National Transportation Safety Board recommended that air show organizers make several changes before this year's races in September, including altering the course design and adding barriers to protect spectators.
Organizers should also consider having pilots wear G-suits to help them withstand gravitational forces and having them take their planes on test flights before races.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/04/10/BANE1O1939.DTL&tsp=1
The article has more details on the crash and the plane.
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