View Full Version : Marshall Pruett's fisking of Barnhart
Racing Truth
08-17-11, 12:51 PM
Utterly outstanding and damning. (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-loudon-rewind)
And, yes, Servia won.
Good reading, even if it is whistling past the graveyard
Most fans got off this series rahrah wagon when Paul Tracy got screwed out of an Indy 500 win, and that was only the beginning of shady deals.
blind eye, or manipulation of rules, has been a major turn off.
example, Sam Hornish (don't get me started, his miraculous Indy charge was totally bogus, among other "accomplishments.") Notice the Kevin Blanche connection there buddy?
There have been ton's of other crooked things going on in this "league" sense it's inception.
It's why they don't have any fans.
not only is it boring spec, they manipulate the rules as they go.
Fark Them
Ed_Severson
08-17-11, 01:56 PM
He's absolutely right; that rulebook is almost entirely worthless. That shouldn't be much of a surprise ... this is the series that until this year (or perhaps last, I can't remember for certain) had never published its rules in a public place in their entire existence.
After the race, I had some back-and-forth with a few old Champ Car officials via Facebook/Twitter. Without naming names, we were all in 100% agreement that not having an Instant Messenger system in place is inexcusable, particularly since several series, including Champ Car, were doing that 6 or 7 years ago. One person suggested that perhaps IndyCar has avoided using IM intentionally, so that there is no record of any communication between pitlane and Race Control.
We were also all in agreement that had we been one of the officials on pitlane, there is no chance we would not have relayed the message from team managers/drivers up to Race Control. It's no secret that some team owners and team managers can be right pains in the ass at times, and maybe you pick and choose which complaints to relay and which to ignore, but something like that is in no way judgement call territory -- you relay that message, without reservation.
Further, it was suggested that instead of sitting in a glass-encased room and ignoring whatever information came in, the Race Director should step outside for himself. Throw the red for a few minutes if you need to give yourself time to do it, but run down there and hop in the pace car with JR and take a lap if you're not 100% certain about your decision!
For Brian to go into the broadcast booth and pretend like he had no information on which to base his decision is ridiculous, but it's way, way worse that in the process he completely threw his pitlane officials and pace car driver to the lions. And really, he should never have been in the booth in the first place -- you're the Race Director, you are not supposed to be the story, you are not supposed to want to be the story, and any time you spend in front of the camera is time you should be spending doing something else.
It's clear that many of the drivers and teams do not respect his job performance, and now if you're Johnny Rutherford or one of the nameless pitlane officials who just got blamed on national TV for not doing your job, I don't know how you could respect him either. And Will Power will almost certainly be fined for his actions, which Brian admitted on national TV were the direct result of his own mistake ... if that comes to pass, then Brian will look more like the authoritarian bully many believe him to be than he ever has before.
They have got to get rid of him. They have to.
chop456
08-17-11, 01:58 PM
They're a cadre of crooked, egocentric, narcissistic *********s, bending reality to suit their purposes?
Color me shocked.
I need to lie down.
I'm shocked I tell ya. Shocked. :tony: :shakehead
-Kevin
Racing Truth
08-17-11, 02:32 PM
Throwing a 3-time 500 winner under the bus SHOULD be the last insult.:shakehead
racer2c
08-17-11, 03:20 PM
Rodeo Randy doesn't have the balls. I feel :tony:'s emergence growing ever closer.
SurfaceUnits
08-17-11, 03:39 PM
They have got to get rid of him. They have to.
no they don't; barnhart is the epitome, the essence of the indy racing league.
Trevor Longman
08-17-11, 04:22 PM
From the misc. section at the end:
According to the official Loudon race lap report, six drivers won the race and Danica Patrick managed to win and finish seventh. I hope that sends a message to all the Danica Doubters out there...
:rofl:
Ed
Thousands of fans don't give a flyin' freak.
you want to be a part of this?
Why?
Racing Truth
08-17-11, 07:49 PM
Ed
Thousands of fans don't give a flyin' freak.
you want to be a part of this?
Why?
Speaking for myself only, b/c, in the end, it is the final American Formula OW entity left. I still enjoy the sport too much, lousy cars aside, to just walk away. Oh, and walk away to what exactly?
Look, I firmly believe that getting rid of tools like TGBB would help the sport immensely. To me, there is still enough good about it, despite the morons, know-nothings and incompetents that still are a part of it.
Hey, I'm 28, and I'm supposed to walk away now? Nope, sorry.
Ed_Severson
08-17-11, 08:14 PM
Speaking for myself only, b/c, in the end, it is the final American Formula OW entity left. I still enjoy the sport too much, lousy cars aside, to just walk away. Oh, and walk away to what exactly?
Look, I firmly believe that getting rid of tools like TGBB would help the sport immensely. To me, there is still enough good about it, despite the morons, know-nothings and incompetents that still are a part of it.
Hey, I'm 28, and I'm supposed to walk away now? Nope, sorry.
Ditto (except for being 28 ... if only!)
It's not so much that I want to be part of the current product as it is that I want to be a part of the sport when it's really good again. Maybe it will never achieve that, but maybe it will, and if it does, I'd like to be there. Being involved now makes it easier to be involved later.
The reality for me is that making a living in racing is still more appealing than sitting in a cubicle farm someplace doing CFD simulations on 18 impeller blade profiles that are all a quarter of a percent different from the other 17. I live in Indianapolis, and it makes no sense for my family to move anywhere else. Drag racing bores the living **** out of me, and there are precious few opportunities in sports cars if you live here. IndyCar and Indy Lights are by far the biggest job pool available that can hold my interest, and I know enough people involved there that even if the end product is not 100% to my liking, I can still be pretty invested in it.
And, frankly, with a few changes in the right spots, things could get a lot better. They need a legitimate Race Director who can write a rulebook, stick to it, and concern himself with officiating the races fairly instead of trying to be everybody's best friend and look important on television. There are other changes needed too, but that's the one that stands out most this week.
Racing Truth
08-17-11, 08:19 PM
That said, the fact that TGBB's panel includes TWO USAC officials (one former) (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/indycar/2011-08-17-servia-protest_n.htm) fails to inspire confidence.:shakehead
Though, interestingly enough, it could still be appealed to IMS Pres. Belskus for a final call.
Ed_Severson
08-17-11, 08:30 PM
Twitter has been great for the lulz this week ... from a Canadian blogger earlier today:
"@scottdixon9 in the NH post-race presser: "This isn't USAC." Guess what, Scott -- it is now." :tony:
Though, interestingly enough, it could still be appealed to IMS Pres. Belskus for a final call.
Spare me the drama.
My dad once told me, Chief, "SHE'S A BAR SLUT, DUMP HER!".
Look, I know you are impressionable and I do not want to insult you...TAKE the advise.
A STUPID scoring error back in the IRL infancy got Arie a win (and a "Texas" beating) in Victory lane. USAC was scoring and the embarrassed IRl dumped them.
STOP giving the IRL a naive hand job. The cheese smells for a reason...because IT STINKS.:flame:
kR3NY9n_hIY
Naaah, that's been the IRL forever. Take the advise, sir.
Rodeo Randy doesn't have the balls. I feel :tony:'s emergence growing ever closer.
I agree. Something stinks, and it smells like Anton. :shakehead
Andrew Longman
08-18-11, 09:53 AM
I agree. Something stinks, and it smells like Anton. :shakeheadEver since this FSp0yfiTSUY I've scratched my head at Indycar scoring and rules.
My opinion was Indycar engineering and driving was world class. Absolute precision was needed to make, drive and race cars at those speeds. With CART and Trammell, et al safety became world class. But the rules were poorly thought through and applied gomerifically.
BTW, looking for that link I realized Bobby Unser has sons named Bobby Jr and Robby. Who, other than George Foreman does that?
No rules, just discretion. Even the discretion to use INdiscretion. I believe the whole thing in NH was a simple, selfish, unilateral decision to please the HUGE:shakehead TV audience, sponsors, ratings, whatever... with total disregard for the safety of or responsibility to the competitors. In that sense the decision there was even worse, FAR worse than the '81 fiasco or the hose job given PT. Can't imagine what we'd be saying if Danica or Power had been hurt, perhaps seriously hurt, as the result of that stupid use of "discretion." I know I'd be suggesting criminal charges. If Binford "didn't have the racing knowledge of the trash collectors outside the Speedway" what does that say about Brainfart? FIRE the bastard before he can quit!
And now, for something completely different:
Brian Barnhart, INDYCAR's President of Competition and Operations, named Jerry Gappens, Rollie Helmling and Jeff Stoops to serve as the three-person panel that will hear the protests regarding the results of the IZOD IndyCar Series MoveThatBlock.com Indy 225 at New Hampshire Motor Speedway.
The protest hearing will take place Aug. 23 in Indianapolis, and the proceedings will be closed to the public and media.
Here's a comment that's appropriate:
Gotta love it! Two USAC guys and a promoter! This ought to be good!
Well,,,,,if this don't beat the band... (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-series-appoints-panel-to-hear-loudon-protest/):yuck:
Andrew Longman
08-18-11, 11:46 AM
Gomerific response from one fan in RM mail bag
Q: The fault is totally with the racers not controlling their vehicles, not respecting the track conditions, not using good judgment. How funny they blame someone else for their own bad driving skills! Did you watch their pit exits? Every single one was mostly out-of-control and on dry pavement. There was a crash on the first lap (dry) and a crash on the last lap (wet). Weather had absolutely NOTHING to do with the crashes. Guess what folks. Barnhart is not driving the race cars! It's entertainment, ala, the WWE. His job is to spice up the show. Is it Barnhart's fault they were driving on a pitiful old track not designed for anything safely over 100 mph? Is it Barnhart's fault the stands were less than 1/5 full? Is it Barnhart’s fault Kanaan ended up in a crapper? Is it Barnhart's fault it was wet? The only scapegoat is the drivers deplorable driving.
Obe
RM: All the other accidents were on a dry surface, agreed, but the last crash was because it was raining, the track was wet and the tires were slicks.
Posted just in case you were wondering who actually supports these bozos
well
this was the first year I had not set foot on the grounds of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway since 1966.............
and I was involved with the sport, when it was top heavy with car guys.
It is no longer. It is now part of the entertainment industry (or wishes it could be)
it kills me, and pisses me off, to watch adults who know better discuss this farking joke.
Read any AUTOCOURSE CART YEARBOOK and ask yourself how far removed this "League" is from what was.
And, they want us to believe it's 'evolution' :thumdown:
stroker
08-18-11, 02:34 PM
It's been four days and no announcement on BB being fired. He's staying. That tells you everything you need to know about the .1RL. Scroom.
Andrew Longman
08-18-11, 02:48 PM
It's been four days and no announcement on BB being fired. He's staying. That tells you everything you need to know about the .1RL. Scroom.Maybe. The appeal doesn't happen to the 23rd IIRC. If they didn't fire him immediately, before setting the appeal hearing, then it might make some sense to wait. Their best chance to fix this was to fire him before BB had a chance to "fix it".
If I were to bet, and I care too little to bet, I'd say they will wait until the end of the season and quietly make a change. Big stumbling block is who would take the job and be accepted by the teams. Cottman? Sure. But he says he doesn't want it. I don't see them firing BB without a solid replacement in place.
But that would mean they have a clue what they are doing, so I'm almost certainly wrong.
Racing Truth
08-18-11, 03:09 PM
Maybe. The appeal doesn't happen to the 23rd IIRC. If they didn't fire him immediately, before setting the appeal hearing, then it might make some sense to wait. Their best chance to fix this was to fire him before BB had a chance to "fix it".
If I were to bet, and I care too little to bet, I'd say they will wait until the end of the season and quietly make a change. Big stumbling block is who would take the job and be accepted by the teams. Cottman? Sure. But he says he doesn't want it. I don't see them firing BB without a solid replacement in place.
But that would mean they have a clue what they are doing, so I'm almost certainly wrong.
According to RM, TC would take a "reformed" steward's job. Separating BB's dual roles is a must, as is a non-useless rulebook.
Don Quixote
08-18-11, 03:30 PM
Ziggy's spot on. What is the point in discussing who the steward is, how the appeal process works, etc? It is over, and has been for years and years.
But that would mean they have a clue what they are doing, so I'm almost certainly wrong.
This guy is ready and battle-tested...:rofl:
http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/17/e2c6829cf0f2b1d81b7bca8be774f74e/l.jpg
Wheel-Nut
08-18-11, 04:45 PM
This guy should take Brainfarts place. He starts in about 6:43.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVsyymNRz2U
SurfaceUnits
08-20-11, 05:22 PM
Maybe. The appeal doesn't happen to the 23rd IIRC. If they didn't fire him immediately, before setting the appeal hearing, then it might make some sense to wait. Their best chance to fix this was to fire him before BB had a chance to "fix it".
If I were to bet, and I care too little to bet, I'd say they will wait until the end of the season and quietly make a change. Big stumbling block is who would take the job and be accepted by the teams. Cottman? Sure. But he says he doesn't want it. I don't see them firing BB without a solid replacement in place.
But that would mean they have a clue what they are doing, so I'm almost certainly wrong.
like it would be hard to find a replacement for that:gomer:
How about when Billy Boat would qualify 1 second faster than he ran all day, nothing fishey there, or how about just this year when a driver was not set back just because Al Jr said he reversed the call, or when he did the same thing the race before, this time it was so bad of a call even Brians own people would not take the fall for him. Brian has needed to go the past 3 yers, matbe he can mow Tony's lawn or wash his cars.
Just noticed I have had less than 50 posts since 2006.
And THIS is what it takes to get you back in!?:D You been in a coma? Oh, check that, sorry if you actually were.
TKGAngel
08-24-11, 10:42 AM
The word has come down from on high that RHR's victory stands.
Servia on Twitter: We lost the protest. The panel states that Barnhart does actually have the power to go back in time
Racing Truth
08-24-11, 10:55 AM
The word has come down from on high that RHR's victory stands.
Servia on Twitter: We lost the protest. The panel states that Barnhart does actually have the power to go back in time
Sadly, according to that turd of a rulebook (written by Barnhart), he probably does.:shakehead
DagoFast
08-24-11, 01:42 PM
T1DEG6BWgp0
Enjoy your turd sandwich you followers of this broke richard series
I'm here to remind you that you are total richard weeds
your pal
Ziggy
devilmaster
08-24-11, 05:45 PM
:rofl:
They have a remarkable ability to make the wrong choice in nearly every circumstance, don't they?
Haven't heard from Randy in a while. I'll bet he has one foot out the door by now. But that's OK, Tony will save us. :laugh:
racer2c
08-24-11, 10:02 PM
They have a remarkable ability to make the wrong choice in nearly every circumstance, don't they?
Haven't heard from Randy in a while. I'll bet he has one foot out the door by now. But that's OK, Tony will save us. :laugh:
Yep. It's just waaaay too quite from the head office. Tony is just waiting for the lawyers to draw up the final contract.
The funny thing (in a sad way) is that I believe the irl honestly believes the new car will solve all their problems. The stands will be full, the ratings out of this world. If there were ever a series that deserves to fold, it's this one and they have no one to blame but themselves.
they have no one to blame but themselves.
but they won't, to date it has always been some other entity's fault
The only way this series will die is either with the sale of the IMS facility or the cancellation of the Indy "500"
DagoFast
08-25-11, 11:16 AM
The only way this series will die is either with the sale of the IMS facility or the cancellation of the Indy "500"
That's the bad news. The good news is, both become more possible, in fact, more likely with each passing year. We just need :tony: back in charge to speed things along.
chop456
08-25-11, 02:02 PM
After the second glaring example of marsupial-style proceedings, anyone that continues to participate in that series believing that it's fair is a straight up ****.
SurfaceUnits
10-27-11, 05:09 PM
Enjoy your turd sandwich you followers of this broke richard series
I'm here to remind you that you are total richard weeds
your pal
Ziggy
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