View Full Version : More Lance Armstrong and PED Stuff
cameraman
01-05-13, 01:49 AM
**** him
It's all a cost/benefit thing to him. Psychopath.
Insomniac
01-07-13, 12:47 PM
It's all a cost/benefit thing to him. Psychopath.
And people will lap it up.
cameraman
01-08-13, 10:43 PM
Un ****ing believable, that tool is going on Oprah:flame:
Tifosi24
01-09-13, 02:00 PM
Un ****ing believable, that tool is going on Oprah:flame:
He is a total narcissist and an absolute scourge on the cycling world. Good thing his former foundation has done some good work, because his only other redeeming quality would be making dropbar road bikes more accessible than they were 10-15 years ago.
Un ****ing believable, that tool is going on Oprah:flame:
I saw that earlier and thought there is still an Oprah?
-Kevin
cameraman
01-09-13, 02:55 PM
I saw that earlier and thought there is still an Oprah?
-Kevin
Really?:saywhat: She has an entire network.:rolleyes:
http://www.oprah.com/own
Really?:saywhat: She has an entire network.:rolleyes:
http://www.oprah.com/own
No, I know about OWN and the huge losses she and Discovery Channel have incurred the past year or so...I just thought her talk show was done. Apparently you are more savvy to such programming than I am. :D :p :gomer:
-Kevin
cameraman
01-09-13, 11:01 PM
I don't see how a channel that runs four solid hours of Dr Phil every day:saywhat: could possibly be losing money.
I'll not be watching Mr Armstrong's little sob session. The show would just bring out some rather strong emotions in me. Not sure if it would be rage or revulsion or some mix of the two but I don't need any of it whatever it may be.
Rick Reilly weighs in....
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8852974/lance-armstrong-history-lying
After watching Mike & Mike yesterday and listening to Stuart Scott weigh in on Livestrong (he's in his third battle with C), I wanted to forgive, but in the end Lance is just a fake and a charlatan. Lance just needs to go away and STFU. Period.
-Kevin
My FB rant on this:
Reason #101 while I will never 'adore' a sports figure again. I swore off buying a jersey with a player's name on it years ago. My CBJ sweaters have Stinger's name on them. My only tOSU jerseys are for Archie, Eddie and Spielman. I Met Steve Garvey @ Dodgers Stadium in 1978, and he was very cordial (telling me to be careful not to fall through the gate where he was signing autographs). Sent a letter to the Dodgers in 1978 and received a signed team picture in return. Then I learned of his extra-marital affairs years later (something I'll never get....I can't keep one affair straight <g>). Never again.
On a side note, the day I met Meg in 1992, we got into a discussion over a couple of beers with a friend about Ryne Sandberg making $6m/per year. I took her side that society's values were misplaced. And they are. We need to value our teachers, first responders, etc. much higher than we do today.
</rant>
:shakehead
And the only other numbered jersey I own is for Jackie Robinson.
-Kevin
So many people are missing the point - it is NOT about the doping. :shakehead
Andrew Longman
01-17-13, 06:10 PM
My FB rant on this:
:shakehead
And the only other numbered jersey I own is for Jackie Robinson.
-KevinThe only jerseys in my closet are my own. :)
Pretty much the same with my kids though I think there is a Jeter jersey around somewhere which I'm cool with. If anyone has demonstrated class and strength of character under the laser spotlight of ny media and pressure it has been Jeter.
But you never know.
cameraman
01-17-13, 07:38 PM
So many people are missing the point - it is NOT about the doping. :shakehead
THIS
Rogue Leader
01-17-13, 07:57 PM
THIS
x1000
So many people are missing the point - it is NOT about the doping. :shakehead
Nope. I get that. It's about lying. Repeatedly. Time after time.....which was my point after posting Reilly's article.
-Kevin
Andrew Longman
01-17-13, 10:56 PM
Nope. I get that. It's about lying. Repeatedly.I think even more than that were the character assassination, threats, and extortions he apparently conducted for years. It is one thing to cheat (and in this case while what did is against the rules arguably you might say some of it shouldn't be against the rules, but that is for another thread), it is another thing to lie about it, and it is a very much different thing to ruin the careers, or threaten to if you are crossed.
Emma O’Reilly:
"I had only ever spoken about it because I hated seeing what some of the riders were going through, because not all the riders were comfortable with cheating as Lance was.
"You could see when they went over to the dark side their personalities change, and I always felt it was an awful shame - these were young lads in the prime of their life having to make this awful decision, kind of living the dream, yet the dream is a nightmare.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/dubliner-emma-oreilly-rejects-armstrongs-apology-for-bullying-and-suing-her-3356866.html
Napoleon
01-18-13, 07:38 AM
I think even more than that were the character assassination, threats, and extortions he apparently conducted for years.
On Chris Hayes' MSNBC show last weekend they were talking about this issue and one of the panelist, the sprotswriter from The Nation, had a hilarious take on this. He started imitating Armstrong as if he was a character from, say, A Bronx Tale (NJ/NYC Italian street thug):
"You want to ride with me? Do you want to ride with me? Well if you want to ride with me here is what you are going to have to do. . . ."
Andrew Longman
01-18-13, 09:17 AM
"And if I hear youz said one word to anybody that I ever even talked to you I will sue youz career and youz bank account into a concrete cooler and drop it in the Grand Banks. Den Im gonna catch me some tuna and forget youz ever existed"
But even Lance could learn a few things from the guys in the garbage hauling "bidness"
:)
Frankie Andreu's wife weighed in last night.
WTrkBRwT5Uc
-Kevin
And the back story on Betsy.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130117/betsy-andreu-lance-armstrong/
It's a shame that Lance doesn't have any nuts, or I'd give him a swift in them. :mad:
-Kevin
I think even more than that were the character assassination, threats, and extortions he apparently conducted for years. It is one thing to cheat (and in this case while what did is against the rules arguably you might say some of it shouldn't be against the rules, but that is for another thread), it is another thing to lie about it, and it is a very much different thing to ruin the careers, or threaten to if you are crossed.
Anyone who reads up on how he operated will recognize him as a textbook example of a psychopath. No soul. No redemption possible. I feel bad for his kids.
Ed_Severson
01-18-13, 10:42 AM
My FB rant on this:
snip
And the only other numbered jersey I own is for Jackie Robinson.
-Kevin
No offense, but I don't really understand this line of thinking. Famous athletes are just people like everybody else. Expecting them to live up to some moral code that you wouldn't impose on an average guy off the street is unrealistic, and acting indignant about it when they get caught being human is just silly.
It's OK to admire a guy for the way he hits a golf ball or rides a bike or throws a football; being a fan doesn't imply 100% endorsement of every decision that guy has ever made.
No offense, but I don't really understand this line of thinking. Famous athletes are just people like everybody else. Expecting them to live up to some moral code that you wouldn't impose on an average guy off the street is unrealistic, and acting indignant about it when they get caught being human is just silly.
It's OK to admire a guy for the way he hits a golf ball or rides a bike or throws a football; being a fan doesn't imply 100% endorsement of every decision that guy has ever made.
Ed, no offense taken. Unfortunately our culture reinforces this thinking. It has for decades. I try to teach my girls about people that achieved great things in the past like Walt Disney (who, BTW, smoked cigarettes since he was 17, and forged his passport application to serve in WWI). Unfortunately they are attracted to figures like Justin Bieber, etc. I grew up idolizing Steve Garvey, AJ Foyt, Bobby Rahal, etc. We simply put these figures on a pedestal. And when the truth comes out, it hurts. We all have faults. Unfortunately our kids have unconditional love for the most part. That's my sociology statement for the day. :)
-Kevin
Sadly 'Charles in Charge' Barkley got it right in this Nike commercial.
R8vh2MwXZ6o
-Kevin
Andrew Longman
01-18-13, 12:41 PM
Sadly 'Charles in Charge' Barkley got it right in this Nike commercial.Actually, since he retired I think he's been a pretty good model.
Ed: Why do we care about sports at all? Why has athletics been seen as an important part of education and development since at least 1869 when Princeton and Rutgers played the first college football game?
It is because we believe it helped change boys into men of character (i.e., Gentlemen) Going back to ancient Greece athletes were viewed as "more perfect forms".
Character counts. If it doesn't IMO I have no interest in seeing a baseball or golfball travel any distance. Without it I see no intrinsic value in feats of strength, speed or skill. It becomes just trash talk and sweaty guys (and gals) playing kids game.
KaBoom21
01-18-13, 01:33 PM
I've lost both parents and a few acquaintances to cancer, so I don't think I'm being insensitive, but...
Anyone else think Armstrong's reason for being so dismissive of Andreu's wife and the hospital visit is because it might influence public opinion of all the good he's done for Cancer awareness when there's a chance all the drugs lead to his testicular cancer in the first place?
Not sure I phrased that ideally, but I think you get the point.
Ed_Severson
01-18-13, 01:39 PM
Character counts.
Sure it does, to an extent. I'm not arguing otherwise, but if you watch Tiger Woods on the practice range and you think to yourself "I should try to be more like him" instead of "I should try to hit the golf ball more like him" then you're doing it very wrong.
Obviously, in cases where there is clear harm done to another person -- rape, assault, murder to name a few potential examples -- some outrage is proportional and appropriate. But to lash at out a guy because he slept with somebody that wasn't his wife or something similar in scope to that? C'mon, man. Maybe you need to re-evaluate why you were a fan in the first place. You made the choice to hold the unfounded belief that the guy was perfect, or at least more perfect than most. That's not his fault.
Tifosi24
01-18-13, 02:14 PM
I've lost both parents and a few acquaintances to cancer, so I don't think I'm being insensitive, but...
Anyone else think Armstrong's reason for being so dismissive of Andreu's wife and the hospital visit is because it might influence public opinion of all the good he's done for Cancer awareness when there's a chance all the drugs lead to his testicular cancer in the first place?
Not sure I phrased that ideally, but I think you get the point.
That might be part of it, but you can't tell with this guy because he is soulless. The interview so far confirms that he is a psychopath and only giving facts, he's not sorry. I think a greater part of his not wanting to "remember" or confirm her story is that he wants to have people believe that his entire career is not tainted, only the period after cancer. The one unbelievable thing last night is his excuse for the donation to the UCI for anti-doping. In 2005, he had enough power that he could have crushed the UCI and created his own sanctioning body. He probably said 10 times he is no fan of the UCI, well, if you don't like them, why would you "support" them because they were low on money. Dude can't stop lying.
cameraman
01-18-13, 02:28 PM
Ed you need to look up what Garvey actually did. He didn't just have an affair, the man lost his damn mind. Garvey well and truly earned every bit of derision he received. Athlete or plumber, his behavior was waaay beyond over the top. Don't ignore the fact that he had spent his entire career carefully cultivating that Mr Clean image. He built his pedestal, very carefully, very purposefully from the ground up.
And then he handed the world the equivalent of a D11 Cat to knock it all down.
Andrew Longman
01-18-13, 03:13 PM
... but if you watch Tiger Woods on the practice range and you think to yourself "I should try to be more like him" instead of "I should try to hit the golf ball more like him" then you're doing it very wrong.First of all I think golf stupid and I don't watch it. ;)
But that's not really relevant. Tiger Woods dedicated himself singularly to try to be the best golfer on the planet. It consumed most of his waking hours from a very young age. If I were to watch Tiger Woods play (and actually did watch him once at the US Open a few years back when I ran a client marketing event at it), I would admire his work by relating it to my situation. Even if I played golf I wouldn't watch to copy his swing, I would watch to use his dedication to inspire my own. I would relate it to judging how much I might achieve in my work and other things in my life if I were even half as dedicated.
In that regard I think golf is a poor example though. People watch cycling to admire and appreciate the total dedication 24/7 it takes to even do it at any serious level. Training, diet, team building, strategy, using strengths and weakness, etc. But perhaps most of all its the mental toughness and commitment winning needed to pedal that fast for that long day after day and to do it better than every other competitor. It is truly amazing.
That "I will do whatever it takes" attitude is either the cause or the by product of why Lance not only took the drug but perhaps also why he trashed whoever he needed to trash and maybe even why he seemed on Oprah to have so much difficulty showing empathy for the damage and pain it brought to people's lives.
The fact that character counts is also why I much prefer team sports (and I consider auto racing a team sport). The best teams most often don't have the most talented members (but granted they need to be very good). They are the teams where the members will do whatever it takes to succeed and are afraid to be the player who lets the team down by not doing his job. And the best teams have players who make other players better. All the greats one way or the other inspire teammates to raise their game. Jeter, Ray Lewis, Messier, Jordon are all recent example.
And there are plenty of players who where hugely gifted but made other play worse. Terrell Owen, Chad Johnson, Albert Belle, Alexei Yashin are but a few examples.
Now all of these players are human with human flaws outside the lines. Hell Ray Lewis had some involvement with 2 murders. IMO the great ones have very few and whatever they have actually does distract and detract from their "greatness" inside the lines. How would the world view Jeter if tomorrow he is found drunk and beat up on a Vegas sidewalk with two hookers stealing his bling. Sorry but I would not be rushing home as much to make sure I caught his first at bat.
Ed_Severson
01-18-13, 04:46 PM
Ed you need to look up what Garvey actually did.
I'm well aware of who Steve Garvey is and what he did. It's not really relevant. While perhaps he "cultivated a Mr. Clean image" that in no way obligated anybody to buy into it. If your response to the mess he made of his personal life is to throw a jersey in the trash or disavow being a fan of him as a player, then you were a fan for the wrong reason in the first place -- you took what should have been about baseball and turned it into hero worship on a level it should have never approached.
I'm not trying to beat anybody up (or derail a thread about Lance) so I'm not going to keep going here, but to reiterate my point: the "I can never wear a jersey ever again because the guy whose name is on it might turn out to be a jerk" line of thought just doesn't compute. Being a fan of an athlete doesn't (and shouldn't) imply approval of every aspect of that athlete's character. Way too many people seem to lack the ability to distinguish between professional proficiency and personal character.
Way too many people seem to lack the ability to distinguish between professional proficiency and personal character.
Ed, got kids? I do. They can't distinguish the difference. Try as I might, they simply fall in love with the persona/celebrity. I recently watched Being Elmo with them...a VERY good documentary on Kevin Clash and his rise to fame from nothing. Now I have to explain why he isn't the puppeteer for Elmo anymore. And I try VERY hard to avoid hard news with the girls, but it's all around them. The media builds them up and then tear them down. I only mentioned Garvey because he was my idol growing up. He was also me lesson not to idolize sports figures, but the lesson applies elsewhere. Just my general social commentary. I thought it needed to be stated. YMMV. Peace.
-Kevin
Tony George is my favorite sports personality. He's an awesome human being. There's nothing he can't fix, but good!
Is that wrong?
:laugh:
Hiro wership contributed to the Split, IMO.
chop456
01-18-13, 11:48 PM
All those lies and now we're supposed to believe him when he says he took PEDs?
BigIrlFan
01-19-13, 12:50 AM
TOney GOrge took PEz? MAn oh man I bet thats how he got teh visisions.
A friend passed this along...
FY114KP7Exo NSFW
Spot. ****ing. On. :thumbup:
Damn I miss George Carlin. :(
-Kevin
Andrew Longman
01-19-13, 12:56 PM
Spot. ****ing. On:thumbup:
Yes, I will and always have picked my own heros.
opinionated ow
01-19-13, 05:50 PM
i'll put it simply; Lance is a total wanker.
cameraman
02-04-13, 04:54 PM
:rolleyes:
Gregory Rast, a Swiss RadioShack rider, just came up with a plausible reason why there hasn't been doping scandals in soccer...
ahhh thats why in soccer doping doesn't exist! if the bet mafia tell your team you need to lose you don't need to be in shape! #680games :eek:
Europol Investigation Finds Suspected Fixing in 680 Soccer Matches (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/sports/soccer/investigation-finds-suspected-fixing-in-680-soccer-matches.html?_r=0)
:shakehead:flame:
Feds to probe further.
http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/8920309/report-lance-armstrong-being-investigated-federal-government
__VQX2Xn7tI
:gomer:
-Kevin
Well... I didn't see this one coming.
Australian doping inquiry finds illegal drugs rife in country's sport
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/07/australian-doping-sport-drugs
TrueBrit
02-07-13, 01:40 PM
Well... I didn't see this one coming.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/07/australian-doping-sport-drugs
Certainly explains Shane Warne...
opinionated ow
02-07-13, 08:26 PM
Well... I didn't see this one coming.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/07/australian-doping-sport-drugs
Let's clarify that; it appears that it may be rife in two sports, namely Rugby League and GayFL. It's unfair to tarnish all Australian athletes when the report makes it clear they are talking about football codes and both Soccer and Rugby Union have been given the all clear.
cameraman
02-09-13, 02:43 PM
Holy... There's a race going on in southern France right now. The Tour de Med. The Garmin Sharp team is (was...) competing until yesterday when someone stole all 16 of their bikes.
Tifosi24
02-09-13, 09:37 PM
Holy... There's a race going on in southern France right now. The Tour de Med. The Garmin Sharp team is (was...) competing until yesterday when someone stole all 16 of their bikes.
I hope Jonathan Vaughters has kept current on his insurance payments, that is probably $250,000 in theft. Not sure how anyone will be able to unload this equipment, but I am sure they can sell them to rich folks in Asia or something.
Andrew Longman
02-10-13, 03:00 PM
Parts.
Pretty easy to strip a bike.
Napoleon
02-22-13, 02:21 PM
And the Justice Department joins in suing Lance. (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/23/sports/cycling/justice-department-will-join-lawsuit-against-armstrong.html?hp)
Andrew Longman
02-22-13, 05:16 PM
He has a point. The USPS certainly got a net gain from sponsoring the team.
But if the contract explicitly forbid doping, then I think the issue is pretty academic. He has admitted to doping which means he willfully and knowingly put the USPS at risk and so he put his compensation at risk.
Sorry Charlie.
And the fallout continues.
http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/9318209/nike-ending-line-livestrong-products
:(
-Kevin
Dear Lance:
STFU. :saywhat: :irked: :mad: :shakehead
Sincerely,
Those of us don't give a **** about you anymore
http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/9432050/lance-armstrong-says-the-record-tour-de-france-winner
cameraman
06-28-13, 01:32 PM
Dear Lance:
STFU. :saywhat: :irked: :mad: :shakehead
Sincerely,
Those of us don't give a **** about you anymore
http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/9432050/lance-armstrong-says-the-record-tour-de-france-winner
ESPN is the one that needs to get the message. Seriously, if I never hear from/about him again, that will be just fine with me.
ESPN is the one that needs to get the message. Seriously, if I never hear from/about him again, that will be just fine with me.
It's not just E$PN. I've seen it elsewhere today (https://www.google.com/search?q=lance+armstrong&oq=lance+armstrong&aqs=chrome.0.57j5j60j0l2j61.3110j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=lance+armstrong&safe=off&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=WczNUZqbOsiMyQGF2YBg&ved=0CC8QqAI&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48572450,d.aWc&fp=eee1a26e3116cbb7&biw=1050&bih=677). I just happened to have the E$PN.com tab open when I posted this.
-Kevin
Insomniac
06-30-13, 08:56 PM
Same deal as Tebow. It gets page views and has people talking.
TrueBrit
06-30-13, 10:24 PM
Same deal as Tebow. It gets page views and has people talking.
Except Teblow hasn't done a damned thing in his entire life that warrants anything remotely close to the coverage he gets...
Insomniac
07-01-13, 08:18 PM
Except Teblow hasn't done a damned thing in his entire life that warrants anything remotely close to the coverage he gets...
And that's why it gets page views and gets people talking. :)
Tifosi24
09-16-13, 09:26 AM
I will resurrect this thread in celebration of Chris Horner's win in the Vuelta. He becomes the third American to officially win a grand tour, and the first one to win the Tour of Spain. A remarkable achievement considering he is nearly 42 years old. Resting him for the majority of the season was a great move by his team, because the race route suited his strengths perfectly and his competitors were dead tired after competing the rest of the season.
Napoleon
10-16-13, 02:48 PM
This is PED related.
As some of you may know I am an attorney. There is now circulating by e-mail in the legal community the settlement offer letter that an attorney in a case involving Albert Pujols sent to Pujols' attorney. It is one of the funnier things I have read in a while. Hopefully I do not screw this up and am able to attach the letter to this post.
http://fansided.com/2013/10/16/new-details-continue-haunt-lance-armstrong/
Sheryl Crow helped bring him down. :laugh:
Don Quixote
10-16-13, 04:46 PM
http://fansided.com/2013/10/16/new-details-continue-haunt-lance-armstrong/
Sheryl Crow helped bring him down. :laugh:FedEx nickname is pretty funny. :laugh:
Tifosi24
10-16-13, 07:19 PM
FedEx nickname is pretty funny. :laugh:
That is a great nickname, and made even better because he rode for the Postal Service team.
opinionated ow
10-16-13, 09:28 PM
After our previous government stood up and declared all Australian athletes drug cheats, to this point only one athlete in any sport has had any evidence put before them. They made a victim of the coach of one of the AFL teams and kicked them out of the finals despite their programme not actually breaking the WADA code...Makes you wonder what the government was trying to cover up!
Fact or fiction?
http://nypost.com/2013/12/13/lance-armstrong-bribed-foe-with-100k-in-cake-box/
Tifosi24
12-14-13, 03:54 PM
Fact or fiction?
http://nypost.com/2013/12/13/lance-armstrong-bribed-foe-with-100k-in-cake-box/
This isn't the first time I have heard the rumor that Armstrong rigged these races. I am too lazy to find the article, but an American professional rider at that time said that Armstrong offered him and a teammate some money to throw the last race. The guy declined and said, and I will paraphrase, "I don't know why he was trying the bribe people because he and Motorola were so much better than everyone else that trying to fix the race was unnecessary."
It is becoming crystal clear that Armstrong's entire career was a fraud, even before cancer. LeMond has his issues, but I think his assessment of Armstrong 20years ago is about right. The guy was nothing special, probably top 30 to top 50 win the world, which means his stage wins pre-cancer and even the 1993 world championship were reasonable, but anything beyond that was chemistry and being lucky to get cancer. That probably sounds harsh, but if you watch interviews with him from 20 years ago, the man had the body of a Classics rider, think Thor Husvold, so there is no way he could have competed consistently in the high mountains, PEDs or no PEDs.
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