View Full Version : back in the ussa
Harder to get back in than traveling all over Europe. When did we become the Nazis?
cameraman
09-27-10, 09:36 AM
About nine years ago.:irked:
Harder to get back in than traveling all over Europe. When did we become the Nazis?
Just be thankful that you don't have to show papers passing from north Cincy to south Cincy.....altho after what I witnessed the weekend before last, that might be a good idea. :gomer: <== minus a tooth
-Kevin
devilmaster
09-27-10, 09:07 PM
There's a reason why I pretty much stopped going stateside altogether. :\
Its just not worth the hassle anymore...
And to be fair, it just isn't the stateside guys... We came back across the border once where the Canadian customs people decided en mass to slow down the flow that day. We sat behind one car while the part-timer customs agent took 23 minutes (we timed it) with the car in front of us at primary inspection. And then -still- sent them to secondary inspection.....
We got sent to secondary as well. So we could pay the provincial sales tax on 50 bucks worth of computer parts.
Sounds like Ukrainian Customs is still the champ. :D
There is a saying here in the Ukrainian capital: “The more I deal with the customs officers, the more I love the traffic police.”
A company imported communications equipment to Ukraine with a value $1,000,000. A CD with installation instructions was included in the shipment. Ukrainian Customs would not clear the shipment until the company produced a revised invoice with the following breakdown: $999,997.00 for the equipment and $3.00 for the CD. "This caused a delay of 7-12 days in the final delivery."
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ukrainian-customs-dont-forget-your-pants-you-fly-kiev
Kiwifan
09-28-10, 11:31 AM
We have crossed your borders a few times in the last few weeks (back an forth on the cruise ship and Alaska/Yukon etc) and without giving offense, your Customs guys are pretty "unfriendly." this is not how we have found the American populace!
Appreciate they have to keep the baddies out but crikey, talk about feeling like criminals. The guys at Vancouver made us think "is it really worth the hassle traveling to the USA?" ( it is! But coming from NZ with no criminal history should give them a few clues)
You have a fantastic country but next trip over may just stay North of the border.
Take care all....
Rusty.
TKGAngel
09-28-10, 11:45 AM
On a weekend trip to Frankenmuth, I had two completely different customs inspections. The Canadian guys at both Niagara Falls & Blue Water were thorough, pleasant and speedy.
The US guys at Niagara Falls basically scanned our passports through the machine and waved us through once we passed. It was the fastest darn crossing I've ever had.
The US guy at Blue Water was another story. He was such a Nosy Ned. In addition to the usual "where are you going" question, he asked what hotel we were staying at, how much we were paying per night, what we were planning to do ("eat chicken, drink beer and buy Christmas presents"). We spent 6 minutes at the booth after spending 90 minutes in line on the bridge. At least I got some cool pictures from on top of the bridge while waiting. :\
Kiwifan
09-28-10, 12:02 PM
We got the same questions! The most common question we got was "why do you want to come to the United States?" My first answer would have been " well not to meet you guys" but anyone who has traveled with their wife knows better than to be a smart-ass. Lol.
Once you pass Border Control everything is great!
Rusty.
Methanolandbrats
09-28-10, 12:52 PM
We got the same questions! The most common question we got was "why do you want to come to the United States?" My first answer would have been " well not to meet you guys" but anyone who has traveled with their wife knows better than to be a smart-ass. Lol.
Once you pass Border Control everything is great!
Rusty.
If you say stuff like that to those guys, they will put you in a special room and look in your butt. They are all sense of humor impaired.
TrueBrit
09-28-10, 12:57 PM
About nine years ago.:irked:
Yup.
I have never made a border crossing so I can't speak to the agents that work there, but when I fly back here from the UK I have found the INS folks to be professional and polite. Some engage in more banter than others, but not all, but I have never really had a hassle at all...
Maybe at the physical border thay have to step up the arsehole quotient because folks might be smuggling stuff in their vehicles? It' s a little hard to smuggle much of anything if you're flying...
cameraman
09-28-10, 02:28 PM
In the mid-90's I drove up to BC in an Audi 4000 and took a long and winding tour of backwoods BC. While returning home on Route 1 via Porthill, ID I crossed the border in the middle of the night in the pouring rain with four 6"x10"x20' clear old growth red cedar timbers strapped to a grossly overloaded Yakima rack. The US Customs guy looked out the window, stared for a moment or two, shook his head and waved me through.
The last time I drove through, armed with a passport, just coming back from a vacation with nothing in the car beyond our clothes (a low budget trip as the dollar was rather upside down) we were treated like terrorist suspects and grilled for the better part of 20 minutes. Were did you go, what did you do, why are you on this road, why so late at night, what did you buy, well why didn't you buy anything, if you didn't enter Canada through Porthill why are you returning through Porthill...
These Homeland Security rent-a-cops are totally over the top.:flame:
Insomniac
09-28-10, 03:21 PM
I didn't have any trouble entering/leaving the US through the Peace Arch. Quick question from Canada about why we were going there and we were through and just said we were returning to get back in to the US.
Now India...the customs agents there will jack you on your way in and out.
oddlycalm
09-28-10, 03:27 PM
There's a reason why I pretty much stopped going stateside altogether. :\
Its just not worth the hassle anymore...
And to be fair, it just isn't the stateside guys...
Agreed. Just to illustrate how much that has changed I used to stay in Windsor whenever I had to be in Detroit on business. Crossing the border was such a non-event that it wasn't a time consideration at all.
The real question is how many creeps are actually discovered as a result of all this heightened security....?
oc
The wife and I visit the Caribbean or Central America most years by air. Haven't noticed any issues except maybe the lines are a bit longer coming back.
TKGAngel
09-28-10, 03:57 PM
Agreed. Just to illustrate how much that has changed I used to stay in Windsor whenever I had to be in Detroit on business. Crossing the border was such a non-event that it wasn't a time consideration at all.
The real question is how many creeps are actually discovered as a result of all this heightened security....?
oc
Every now and again we'll hear about pot or coke getting seized. The biggest to-do around here happened when A-Rod's doc's assistant was busted at the border with HGH.
racer2c
09-28-10, 04:12 PM
It sounds like the problem is those who drive. Here in FL you could boat into any coastal town from any country in the world and no one would bat an eye.
oddlycalm
09-28-10, 06:06 PM
Every now and again we'll hear about pot or coke getting seized. The biggest to-do around here happened when A-Rod's doc's assistant was busted at the border with HGH.
Exactly, while we'd all like to believe the national security creeps are kept out of the news we have no idea if that's true or not. The only mentions in the news are the mundane drug catches. We're paying a tall price for the "Fortress America" behavior with no real idea whether it's worth the effort.
oc
We're paying a tall price for the "Fortress America" behavior with no real idea whether it's worth the effort.
We would prefer that you not ask that sort of question, and just to be safe, we will be monitoring your communications to make sure you are a patriotic American.
The US guy at Blue Water was another story. He was such a Nosy Ned. In addition to the usual "where are you going" question, he asked what hotel we were staying at, how much we were paying per night, what we were planning to do ("eat chicken, drink beer and buy Christmas presents").
They ask goofy questions, because any good ne'er-do-well already has the standard ones memorized.
Anybody been to Israel? Never been, but I guess that they give everyone a long interview. They'll try to trip you up. "So it says here that your address is 1243 Mayberry lane." "No, it's 1234 Mayberry."
Appreciate they have to keep the baddies out but crikey, talk about feeling like criminals.
Everybody knows that Australia has nothing but criminals in it!
(we really are bad with geography, too.)
;)
Everybody knows that Australia has nothing but criminals in it!
(we really are bad with geography, too.)
;)
Have you ever ventured outside Illinois? :gomer::D
Have you ever ventured outside Illinois? :gomer::D
To quote the great racing hiro, "Why would you want to do that?"
:D
chop456
09-28-10, 11:08 PM
Yup.
I have never made a border crossing so I can't speak to the agents that work there, but when I fly back here from the UK I have found the INS folks to be professional and polite. Some engage in more banter than others, but not all, but I have never really had a hassle at all...
Maybe at the physical border thay have to step up the arsehole quotient because folks might be smuggling stuff in their vehicles? It' s a little hard to smuggle much of anything if you're flying...
Yep. Never had a problem anywhere. I've gone through Sault St. Marie and barely had to slow down. MN, MI and VT were all no problem and O'Hare is no big deal besides the wait.
Maybe you all look like terraists. :gomer:
Kiwifan
09-29-10, 12:26 AM
Yep.
Maybe you all look like terraists. :gomer:
Yep, we do! White, middle aged, middle class couple, no convictions on a New Zealand passport. Lol.
Appreciate they have a job to do and I would never be a smart Alec but a "welcome to the USA" would be nice. :D :D
BarillaGirl
09-29-10, 01:09 AM
Yep, we do! White, middle aged, middle class couple, no convictions on a New Zealand passport. Lol.
Appreciate they have a job to do and I would never be a smart Alec but a "welcome to the USA" would be nice. :D :D
Ha! My mother is a retired schoolteacher from the Midwest and she's been all but strip-searched on nearly every flight she's taken in the last ten years. (Ironically, she's spent that decade making sure my father didn't blurt out something dumb at the airport.) TSA is all about posturing and bullying people just because they can. Methanolandbrats can surely back me up about the plastic G.I. Joe gun confiscated from a kid years ago at the Central Wisconsin Airport in Mosinee. They're the same kind of rednecks who become police officers so they can wear a gun on their hip and legally speed if they flip their lights on.
Yep, we do! White, middle aged, middle class couple, no convictions on a New Zealand passport. Lol.
One word: hobbits. :gomer: :p
-Kevin
Kiwifan
09-29-10, 10:52 AM
I left out one word, "boring". I've not seen any of the LOR movies,at all. Too busy workin, watching sport and comedies there, Seinfield....posting as dando. :D :D
Kiwifan
09-29-10, 09:48 PM
Getting out was easier than getting in. :D
Michaelhatesfans
09-29-10, 09:49 PM
Ha! My mother is a retired schoolteacher from the Midwest and she's been all but strip-searched on nearly every flight she's taken in the last ten years.
Is she hot?
they leave me alone for the most part.
fear the brown man :D
BarillaGirl
09-30-10, 12:19 AM
Is she hot?
Let's just say she's not my type. ;)
SurfaceUnits
09-30-10, 12:36 PM
Y\'all just aren\'t messican enough
Kiwifan
10-11-10, 05:25 AM
Hmmm, just been talking to another Kiwi who has been worked over transiting in LAX to Vancouver. He said he was so upset he won't go back to the US. I told him once you get past the "boys" the folks in the USA are fantastic and friendly. I think it's too late to change his mind. :-(
JohnHKart
10-13-10, 12:45 AM
Yes Border A holes are dick heads. I just head over to Ensenada for a fun day away with drink food and favorite mexican girlfriends and get treated at the border like I'm there coordinating all the Drug Cartels and Colombian drug routes. (Ensenada I consider my second home town, since I was there almost 500 times on my cruise ship 96-2001). I don't do drugs or anything else illegal. F them.
oddlycalm
10-13-10, 05:36 PM
Yes Border A holes are dick heads.
So true. Something about the job I guess. Doesn't seem to matter where you go. The Soviet era immigration guards in Eastern Europe set the all time low water mark but every agent seems to be trying to equal that achievement these days.
oc
What's the proper amount to tip a TSA agent after an "enhanced" pat down?
Next time I fly I want to be sure I don't look like a yokel. :tony:
TKGAngel
11-10-10, 05:17 PM
What's the proper amount to tip a TSA agent after an "enhanced" pat down?
Next time I fly I want to be sure I don't look like a yokel. :tony:
My dad is a TSA agent and I've asked him if he has to buy people dinner first before getting to whatever base it is that the patdowns are.
I do want to point out that you only get felt up if you alarm at the preliminary screening or refuse to go through the naked picture cam.
TrueBrit
11-10-10, 06:08 PM
I do want to point out that you only get felt up if you alarm at the preliminary screening or refuse to go through the naked picture cam.
Oh that's alright then, so the choice is either let a perfect stranger look at your naked junk (whilst getting irraditiated as an additional bonus) or instead have that perfect stranger get to second base with you without so much as a drink or a kiss...
Remind me again, land of the whom? :rolleyes:
cameraman
11-10-10, 07:16 PM
Remind me again, land of the whom? :rolleyes:
The land of the free grope.
Kiwifan
11-10-10, 08:27 PM
I got asked in Aussie by a really hot Customs chick if I would mind a pat down and I said "Sure!" and she then called over a 6 foot 6 bloke. :( To be fair he just used the back of his hand but by then the thrill had gone. ;)
Rusty.
TKGAngel
11-10-10, 08:31 PM
Oh that's alright then, so the choice is either let a perfect stranger look at your naked junk (whilst getting irraditiated as an additional bonus) or instead have that perfect stranger get to second base with you without so much as a drink or a kiss...
Remind me again, land of the whom? :rolleyes:
Neither option is perfect. I agree with you there. However, what better options are out there in order to reduce the chances of the bad guys being successful at what they're trying to do?
TravelGal
11-10-10, 09:18 PM
Lots of lawsuits brewing. By the pilots. They are not in favor of option A) turning into a crispy critter after being irradiated several times a month or B) providing the jollies to the TSA folks. This will escalate because flights are now being delayed because cabin crews are also refusing the machines and the jolly part just takes so much longer.
Methanolandbrats
11-10-10, 09:48 PM
Good point about radiation from all the security checks. What do all those machines emit? I remember in the old days of radar guns, lots of cops fried their nuts from repeated exposure.
They say they are harmless, but no radiation is harmless. If I understand correctly, it is sort of like an X-ray that only has enough power to penetrate your clothes. So surely skin cancer could be a risk, at the least.
But, hey, its all good, I always carry my nuclear weapons up my kiester, so they will never find them. :gomer:
And, oh yeah, **** the TSA and **** all you people who are scared of the boogieman. Your choice is tyranny, and quite frankly, I would prefer to take my chances with the terrorists.
Methanolandbrats
11-10-10, 10:49 PM
They say they are harmless, but no radiation is harmless. If I understand correctly, it is sort of like an X-ray that only has enough power to penetrate your clothes. So surely skin cancer could be a risk, at the least.
But, hey, its all good, I always carry my nuclear weapons up my kiester, so they will never find them. :gomer:
And, oh yeah, **** the TSA and **** all you people who are scared of the boogieman. Your choice is tyranny, and quite frankly, I would prefer to take my chances with the terrorists.
If anyone ever slides a weapon up their starfish, the next step is a gauntlet of rubber gloves before getting on a plane. :D I'm glad I have VW diesels, I can drive anywhere in NA in a couple days for pennies and I don't want to go to all those foreign countries where the IRL drivers come from. :gomer:
devilmaster
11-10-10, 11:35 PM
But, hey, its all good, I always carry my nuclear weapons up my kiester, so they will never find them. :gomer:
So I take it you had the nacho chili bean dip the other night?
http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2010/11/10/2035852/missile420-420x0.jpg
;)
Kiwifan
11-11-10, 12:11 AM
and I don't want to go to all those foreign countries where the IRL drivers come from. :gomer:
Hey watch it buddy, one of those drivers has a show on TV Downunder showing people how to drive, how not to crash, how to get oneself out of a "situation" and how not to hit the wall. :D Off course, like his Series, there's no-one there to watch it. :rofl:
Rusty.
I would prefer to take my chances with the terrorists.
I only want enough security to keep it close. Metal detectors to find the hand guns & x-ray machines to find the suitcase bombs.
The other stuff like box cutters or shoe, underwear, and shampoo bombs are bad to have on an airplane, but they are also bad on a bus or in a school. Yet neither of those is subject to the Supermax lockdown procedures at your friendly neighborhood airport.
What the Feds should make clear is that an airliner will not be allowed to be used as a cruise missile and that there are three layers of security. The pilots and the cabin door, the air crew and passengers, and finally the US military. Motivation is the key. If someone tries to kill you, kill him back before the fighter intercept kills everyone.
With body scanners and pat-downs we could have a whole new take on the classic Spinal Tap airport security scene. :)
I only want enough security to keep it close. Metal detectors to find the hand guns & x-ray machines to find the suitcase bombs.
The other stuff like box cutters or shoe, underwear, and shampoo bombs are bad to have on an airplane, but they are also bad on a bus or in a school. Yet neither of those is subject to the Supermax lockdown procedures at your friendly neighborhood airport.
What the Feds should make clear is that an airliner will not be allowed to be used as a cruise missile and that there are three layers of security. The pilots and the cabin door, the air crew and passengers, and finally the US military. Motivation is the key. If someone tries to kill you, kill him back before the fighter intercept kills everyone.
Nope, you make too much sense. You see, it is important to keep the Plebians in a constant state of terror. That way we can have ever expanding defense budgets.
Insomniac
11-11-10, 12:34 PM
I only want enough security to keep it close. Metal detectors to find the hand guns & x-ray machines to find the suitcase bombs.
The other stuff like box cutters or shoe, underwear, and shampoo bombs are bad to have on an airplane, but they are also bad on a bus or in a school. Yet neither of those is subject to the Supermax lockdown procedures at your friendly neighborhood airport.
What the Feds should make clear is that an airliner will not be allowed to be used as a cruise missile and that there are three layers of security. The pilots and the cabin door, the air crew and passengers, and finally the US military. Motivation is the key. If someone tries to kill you, kill him back before the fighter intercept kills everyone.
I agree with this. After 9/11, high-jacking an airplane is over. Before that day, you could believe it was a high-jacking for some type of ransom, now everyone assumes they're going to die unless they do something. The money could be much better spent putting sky marshals on every flight.
These procedures will direct terrorists to blow other things up if they were previously inclined to blow up a plane. Do we then lock down everyone of those things? It goes on and on if we keep reacting to everything.
I always get a pat down at the airport and never had a problem with it. This summer, on my way back from Yellowstone, the guy checked the inside of my waist line. This was the first time it happened and it was shocking. I wasn't offended, just very surprised. I can imagine how much worse it will be when people are surprised by hands running over their crotches.
cameraman
11-11-10, 01:05 PM
Ask the Pilot column at Salon.com
Here's a scenario:
Middle Eastern terrorists hijack a U.S. jetliner bound for Italy. A two-week drama ensues in which the plane's occupants are split into groups and held hostage in secret locations in Lebanon and Syria.
While this drama is unfolding, another group of terrorists detonates a bomb in the luggage hold of a 747 over the North Atlantic, killing more than 300 people.
Not long afterward, terrorists kill 19 people and wound more than a hundred others in coordinated attacks at European airport ticket counters.
A few months later, a U.S. airliner is bombed over Greece, killing four passengers.
Five months after that, another U.S. airliner is stormed by heavily armed terrorists at the airport in Karachi, Pakistan, killing at least 20 people and wounding 150 more.
Things are quiet for a while, until two years later when a 747 bound for New York is blown up over Europe killing 270 passengers and crew.
Nine months from then, a French airliner en route to Paris is bombed over Africa, killing 170 people from 17 countries.
That's a pretty macabre fantasy, no? A worst-case war-game scenario for the CIA? A script for the End Times? Except, of course, that everything above actually happened, in a four-year span between 1985 and 1989. The culprits were the al-Qaidas of their time: groups like the Abu Nidal Organization and the Arab Revolutionary Cells, and even the government of Libya.
The rest of the article (http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/index.html?story=/tech/col/smith/2010/11/10/airport_security)
Read this one while you're there. On point & funny. (http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/2010/11/04/belt_removal_at_security_checkpoint/index.html) Or is it sad, well maybe both.
This is an oldie but a goodie (http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2008/07/11/askthepilot283/).
Don Quixote
11-11-10, 01:50 PM
This is an oldie but a goodie (http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2008/07/11/askthepilot283/).Wow. For some reason all bureaucracies turn into this. Probably due to the peter principal.
Kiwifan
11-17-10, 01:22 AM
Sorry to go on but it's not just pesky foreigners they are after. :)
http://nz.totaltravel.yahoo.com/news-opinions/news/a/-/8336415/airport-security-touched-my-junk/
As a PS to this we are planning to come back to the USA again, third trip in 3 years so ya gotta think we do love the place and it's populace. :)
Rusty.
devilmaster
11-17-10, 03:24 PM
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother
While North America's airports groan under the weight of another sea-change in security protocols, one word keeps popping out of the mouths of experts: Israelification.
That is, how can we make our airports more like Israel's, which deal with far greater terror threat with far less inconvenience......
.....The first layer of actual security that greets travellers at Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport is a roadside check. All drivers are stopped and asked two questions: How are you? Where are you coming from?
"Two benign questions. The questions aren't important. The way people act when they answer them is," Sela said.
Officers are looking for nervousness or other signs of "distress" — behavioural profiling. Sela rejects the argument that profiling is discriminatory.
"The word 'profiling' is a political invention by people who don't want to do security," he said. "To us, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, young or old. It's just his behaviour. So what kind of privacy am I really stepping on when I'm doing this?".....
"I once put this question to Jacques Duchesneau (the former head of the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority): say there is a bag with play-doh in it and two pens stuck in the play-doh. That is 'Bombs 101' to a screener. I asked Ducheneau, 'What would you do?' And he said, 'Evacuate the terminal.' And I said, 'Oh. My. God.'
"Take Pearson. Do you know how many people are in the terminal at all times? Many thousands. Let's say I'm (doing an evacuation) without panic — which will never happen. But let's say this is the case. How long will it take? Nobody thought about it. I said, 'Two days.'".......
.....Five security layers down: you now finally arrive at the only one which Ben-Gurion Airport shares with Pearson — the body and hand-luggage check.
"But here it is done completely, absolutely 180 degrees differently than it is done in North America," Sela said.
"First, it's fast — there's almost no line. That's because they're not looking for liquids, they're not looking at your shoes. They're not looking for everything they look for in North America. They just look at you," said Sela. "Even today with the heightened security in North America, they will check your items to death. But they will never look at you, at how you behave. They will never look into your eyes ... and that's how you figure out the bad guys from the good guys."
That's the process — six layers, four hard, two soft. The goal at Ben-Gurion is to move fliers from the parking lot to the airport lounge in a maximum of 25 minutes....
oddlycalm
11-17-10, 05:32 PM
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother
It's amazing that our leadership always has to reinvent the wheel rather than look elsewhere and see what works best. It's what we get for allowing lawyers with, no understanding of how anything actually works, to run the show. :gomer:
oc
cameraman
11-17-10, 07:03 PM
I swear this country is devolving before our eyes.
Today's abject airline stupidity (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dailydish/2010/11/la-food-stylist-pulled-from-flight-for-atom-bomb-tattoo.html)
At least the flight crew had common sense.
devilmaster
11-17-10, 07:20 PM
It's amazing that our leadership always has to reinvent the wheel rather than look elsewhere and see what works best. It's what we get for allowing lawyers with, no understanding of how anything actually works, to run the show. :gomer:
oc
I just wanna say for the record that it isn't just USA... Canada has some real winners as well, making it a north american phenomenon. :irked: As I have a passport now i'm just starting to cross the border to hit my favorite haunts again and i'm seeing the power they feel they can wield.
I don't think its abject stupidity, but a training regimen that drills into border guards (and i think airport screeners as well) that DON'T BE THE GUY WHO LETS 9/11 HAPPEN AGAIN!
Insomniac
11-17-10, 08:08 PM
I swear this country is devolving before our eyes.
Today's abject airline stupidity (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dailydish/2010/11/la-food-stylist-pulled-from-flight-for-atom-bomb-tattoo.html)
At least the flight crew had common sense.
Just note that if we tried to implement Israeli security at our airports, someone like the person who found him suspicious would probably be hired for a position.
I spent several weeks in Germany late this summer and was refreshingly surprised by the sensible running of airport security at the three airports I went through. Things have really changed since the machine gun totting troops days of 2002 and 2003 trips The only annoyances were at US TSA controlled airports where they were still making people take off their shoes and strip off belts and take out wallets for the most cursory of flouroscope inspections and visual "searches". Utter crap on this side that will inevitably be circumvented by a courier express package some day soon. Scariest thing is that TSA positions all seem to be filled with minimum wage special needs candidates. There's not a hint in the US of the serious professionalism in airport security that I've encountered in European airports in my trips three of the last four years.
I spent several weeks in Germany late this summer and was refreshingly surprised by the sensible running of airport security at the three airports I went through. Things have really changed since the machine gun totting troops days of 2002 and 2003 trips The only annoyances were at US TSA controlled airports where they were still making people take off their shoes and strip off belts and take out wallets for the most cursory of flouroscope inspections and visual "searches". Utter crap on this side that will inevitably be circumvented by a courier express package some day soon. Scariest thing is that TSA positions all seem to be filled with minimum wage special needs candidates. There's not a hint in the US of the serious professionalism in airport security that I've encountered in European airports in my trips three of the last four years.
Pete, on my last trip to India in the summer of 2007, Frankfurt had the highest level of security I had ever seen. No belts, no shoes, no wallets, and stand in line like you were ordering from the soup Nazi. And there were still armed guards present, but the worst part was that smoking was allowed throughout the airport. :yuck:
-Kevin
I swear this country is devolving before our eyes.
Today's abject airline stupidity (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dailydish/2010/11/la-food-stylist-pulled-from-flight-for-atom-bomb-tattoo.html)
At least the flight crew had common sense.
Would you want to be seated next to a food stylist from LA?
Methanolandbrats
11-17-10, 09:54 PM
I think the people who could not get renta cop jobs at the mall are going to TSA.
chop456
11-18-10, 02:53 AM
Would you want to be seated next to a food stylist from LA?
Especially one that thinks Neely's is good BBQ. :yuck:
Do you suppose that might have been a publicity stunt for the barbeque joint? :laugh:
9/11 proves we cant trust the a-rabs. oklahoma city proves we cant trust the whites. 2pac/biggie is why we cant trust the blacks.
conclusion? the hindus should be allowed free, all-inclusive booze access, entry:gomer:
TKGAngel
11-19-10, 09:18 AM
I think the people who could not get renta cop jobs at the mall are going to TSA.
You'd be surprised at the number of TSAs that are current/former military.
Especially one that thinks Neely's is good BBQ.
That's the restaurant run by the husband & wife from Food Network, right?
Don Quixote
11-19-10, 09:30 AM
That's the restaurant run by the husband & wife from Food Network, right?That show is pretty much unwatchable.
chop456
11-19-10, 09:34 AM
I didn't eat there, though I hit about 5 other BBQ joints in Memphis this past summer. Everyone we talked to and everyone on Yelp said both their place and The Rendezvous sucked.
I bet even the TSA doesn't like it.
:0ntopic:
That show is pretty much unwatchable.
Pretty much? Dude. :saywhat:
-Kevin
Don Quixote
11-19-10, 12:22 PM
Pretty much? Dude. :saywhat:
-KevinYou have to admit it is pretty funny watching that guy take 5 minutes to chop a single carrot.
:waywaywaywayofftopic:
You have to admit it is pretty funny watching that guy take 5 minutes to chop a single carrot.
:waywaywaywayofftopic:
It's more the happy interaction that kills me. Put the old lady and me in the kitchen @ the same time, and knives are not a good thing. :gomer: :saywhat:
:driving this thread of a cliff: ;)
-Kevin
Getting back on topic...apparently a test device was found in Namibia yesterday en route to Munich. The Germans are apparently expecting an attack of some sort. I wouldn't want to be in a German airport now. :saywhat:
-Kevin
It was a test, although they don't know who was conducting the test. Not very comforting.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=12189224
TrueBrit
11-19-10, 03:38 PM
It was a test, although they don't know who was conducting the test. Not very comforting.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=12189224
No, but they know what Grandma's taint smells like....folks this is all about fear and compliance and bugger all about the war on turr...
And really, we need to screen the pilots? Um..don't they have the biggest weapon of all at their disposal? You know, the bloody plane..:rolleyes:
The TSA needs to recruit some Hooters girls. That will resolve half the problem. ;)
conclusion? the hindus should be allowed free, all-inclusive booze access, entry:gomer:
And baseball is banned and 20/20 goes worldwide. Harbijan Singh gets bailed over by the TSA for the knob on his head and fails to make the slugfest. :p
OK. I know that will sail over 99% of your heads. Sorry.
TravelGal
11-19-10, 07:15 PM
This is, in fact, getting NOT funny. The screeners are going way too far. I'm reading way too many reports of what constitutes molestation in any other setting. Of women. Of CHILDREN. Australia, (dare I say) on the other hand:
Australia Says No To Intimate Pat-Downs
Australia is getting body scanners in the new year but will refrain from indecent physical examinations of passengers. A spokesperson said that a final decision on the technology to be used initially at a number of Australian international air terminals had not been made, but that the selection would seek out the devices that produced the least possible amount of radiation and coded the data so that the operators could only see stick figures on which suspicious objects would be identified by symbols. The scanners will not be the primary screening for a secondary one. Passengers will be denied boarding if they refuse to go through a body scanner.
Methanolandbrats
11-19-10, 07:52 PM
Damn, on the news they showed a TSA guy on his knees fondling a dudes junk and he was almost nose to knob :eek: My doctor doesn't even get that close.
devilmaster
11-20-10, 05:07 AM
So trip number 3 into the States since I acquired my passport.
Primary didn't believe me when I explained that I'm heading over to Dave and Busters for a late lunch and to waste an hour or two playing arcade. I mean I understand that its not your normal response to the question 'where are you going?' But he just didn't buy it. Commented that I 'should just buy a playstation' instead of going there.
Got sent to secondary. Secondary now is the most amazing setup in wasted time and money i've ever seen.
At the tunnel secondary, I was told to leave me phone and the keys in the car, take my ID and the yellow form into the office. The office was a hubub of activity with what seemed like nothing going on. Perhaps 15 officers walking back and forth and just standing around. The guard at the front door looked at my form and sent me to two guards not twenty feet away, who told me to give me form to the guy working the first desk two feet from them. He looked it over quick, and gave my info back and told me to sit down. Behind the counter is about a dozen officers, with only one at a computer inputting anything. There were about twenty people waiting at the seats.
Behind the counter was a small office that was used as a interview room I believe. They walked one guy out with an officer in front and two behind and the one officer who went first said loudly 'coming out!' and every officer in the place turned and some put their hands on their sidearms just to sit a teenage kid back down in his seat. I watched about 4 different people go through this same routine. 'Coming in!' and 'Coming out!' with three guards, and everyone else on their sidearms. The friendly fire crossfire would have wiped out more than a few officers if anything happened.
After about 20 minutes of sitting and waiting and watching this thoroughly boring office game (at least doctors offices have magazines) I was asked to come up to the counter, where I handed over my passport and yellow tag they gave me. He again asked me where I was going, and again I answered truthfully. He looked it over, asked me about how often I come over, which I know and answered because I just got the passport. Told me to sit back down and I'll be out of there soon once the Durango was looked over. (I kinda wanted the 'interview', a part of me perversely wanted to see this interview room cause I expected it to be very copshow like...)
Another 15 minutes of waiting where I could barely glimpse that the durango was done being inspected. (I believe the seats are specifically designed to not allow you to easily watch your vehicle, and if you do, I'm sure some officer would see you and think you're hiding something. The officer at the computer asked me which one was mine, did a quick radio check to ensure its clean, then called me over, gave me back my passport and yellow tag and said I was free to go. I went outside and was motioned over to an officer who apparently was working valet in a booth, as I handed my ticket in, and was given my keys. (almost tipped him. Almost. ;) ) Told me my phone was in the car and I'm free to go.
And of those interviews? Nobody that left before me and interviewed were held.
My opinion? Its quite silly, and quite expensive. And honestly, from the news in Detroit and Windsor, nothing major is ever found going stateside. The big find for them the past month or so? The one that got press? Some guy came back from Caesars Windsor after hitting a jackpot and didn't claim it.
Like the story I posted, they're going after the wrong things. If your concern is terrorism, then look at where the guys who commit it come from and how they got here. Whether they be middle eastern or home grown bubbas.
I could go on and on, but simply, when another terrorist incident happens (and it will, bet on it) they'll realize that all the procedures put in place, all the heightened security didn't work and then they'll just ramp it up more, and suddenly, US citizens will be on an imaginary island where it'll be harder to leave and come back than ever before.
Don Quixote
11-20-10, 11:31 AM
So trip number 3 into the States since I acquired my passport.
Unbelievable, yet totally believable. I am embarrassed for our country. I think some of those fascist agents walking around with their fingers on their triggers and their thumbs up their asses should be moved down to the southern border where the real problems are. :shakehead
Steve, keep in mind that the 911 guys entered through the Great White North. They are simply trying to keep history from repeating itself, but I agree they are going about it the wrong way. And wasting a lot of our jack to boot. :irked:
-Kevin
Methanolandbrats
11-20-10, 12:29 PM
Man, things are really ramped up. Lake Superior Provincial Park is a nice place to hang out and fish, but screw it, I can go fishing in Northern MN or Upper Michigan next summer.
devilmaster
11-20-10, 01:59 PM
Steve, keep in mind that the 911 guys entered through the Great White North. They are simply trying to keep history from repeating itself, but I agree they are going about it the wrong way. And wasting a lot of our jack to boot. :irked:
-Kevin
Kev, I hope you're kidding....
Because that's -NOT- how it happened. None of the 9/11 hijackers came in through Canada by rail, air or land border.
This idea started shortly after 9/11 and was proven wrong by the commission. However, it has lived on as an urban myth. Its gained legs because IMHO there are a few people out there that don't want to look inward when it comes to finding blame on 9/11. Its so much easier to blame outward.
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/04/24/mccain-border-canada-911.html
http://www.suite101.com/content/sharron-angle-tells-students-911-hijackers-came-from-canada-a298475
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2005/04/21/gingrich-mckenna050421.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Express
This idea started shortly after 9/11 and was proven wrong by the commission. However, it has lived on as an urban myth. Its gained legs because IMHO there are a few people out there that don't want to look inward when it comes to finding blame on 9/11. Its so much easier to blame outward.
I think the fact that Ahmed Ressam (the "Millenium Bomber") had attempted to enter through Canada had made northern boarder security a hot topic not long before 9/11. That lead to a lot of speculation immediately after 9/11 that they may have entered through Canada. Like many things, the immediate speculation got a lot more press than the eventual facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Ressam
devilmaster
11-20-10, 05:07 PM
I think the fact that Ahmed Ressam (the "Millenium Bomber") had attempted to enter through Canada had made northern boarder security a hot topic not long before 9/11. That lead to a lot of speculation immediately after 9/11 that they may have entered through Canada. Like many things, the immediate speculation got a lot more press than the eventual facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Ressam
Agreed. The good thing about him was that border security pre - 9/11 caught him.... it sounds weird, but I honestly feel more secure with the old security than I do now.
A passage i remember from a great book called air america by tim robbins - talked about how a pilot felt about the cia war in indochina back during vietnam. The pilot commented that the war became a great place to waste money on every half cocked idea, every cia agents wacky idea, like homemade napalm dropped from cargo planes as an example.
Here in Windsor, a good example of this thought process is the train scanners. They built a large train scanning system in the heart of Windsor to inspect freight trains bound for the states through the tunnel... nvrmnd the fact that there was no credible intelligence arguement for it. I'm pretty sure your taxes paid for this system over here, btw.
I look at it like this. Instead of overspending on security that really doesn't protect all of us, north america should look at best practices from elsewhere, and spend more on good intelligence to find the people it should be looking for.
The yemen packages are a good example in this. Western authorities didn't find them, european allies did. Luckily they were on the ball.
A better solution would be for the Al Qaeda to pay the US gov'mint to blow up so many planes a year for an annual fee. It would remove all the uncertainty that makes these current security measures necessary, and thereby, allow security to return to pre 9/11 levels.
The savings to the tax payers would be immense, and any damage or loss of life would be covered by the fee Al Qaeda pays the Feds. Win-Win-Win all around. ;)
devilmaster
11-20-10, 05:36 PM
A better solution would be for the Al Qaeda to pay the US gov'mint to blow up so many planes a year for an annual fee. It would remove all the uncertainty that makes these current security measures necessary, and thereby, allow security to return to pre 9/11 levels.
The savings to the tax payers would be immense, and any damage or loss of life would be covered by the fee Al Qaeda pays the Feds. Win-Win-Win all around. ;)
Lol...
As a postscript to my last comments, while the powers that be try to solve every possible security whatif, they don't bother to beat down on matty moroun, the real life incarnation of montgomery burns. Matty owns the ambassador bridge between detroit and windsor, and has, through his actions, has been more of a pain in the ass to homeland security than al-qaeda will ever be.
Kev, I hope you're kidding....
Because that's -NOT- how it happened. None of the 9/11 hijackers came in through Canada by rail, air or land border.
This idea started shortly after 9/11 and was proven wrong by the commission. However, it has lived on as an urban myth. Its gained legs because IMHO there are a few people out there that don't want to look inward when it comes to finding blame on 9/11. Its so much easier to blame outward.
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/04/24/mccain-border-canada-911.html
http://www.suite101.com/content/sharron-angle-tells-students-911-hijackers-came-from-canada-a298475
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2005/04/21/gingrich-mckenna050421.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Express
Steve, not pointing the finger @ Canadia. You have more faith in our commissions than I do. I never looked closely into the findings since 911 is a sore subject with me due to the people I know that were in the towers that day or very close by. One of which still has serious issues to this very day. I just recall that the Logan bombers were initially reported to have crossed the border. Trust me, I have no problem calling out the incompetencies of our homeland. Peace.
-Kevin
TrueBrit
11-21-10, 06:52 PM
..but on the other hand it has added to the spice in the bedroom...now you can play the horny passenger/studly TSA agent game with the Missus...
TravelGal
11-22-10, 01:52 PM
Congressman Ron Paul Introduces "American Traveler Dignity Act" Ron Paul, (R-Texas) has introduced a new bill, the American Traveler Dignity Act to protect Americans from harm and humiliation when they choose to travel by air. The proposed law "establishes airport security screeners are not immune from any US law regarding physical contact with another person, making images of another person or causing physical harm through the use of radiation-emitting machinery on another person." Transportation Security Administration screeners "are subject to the same laws as the rest of us," he said. The solution, he said, is to allow the private sector, preferably the airlines, to provide for the security of their property.
Soooo, I didn't realize that the passengers were the "property" of the airlines.
95% of this is either "feel good" security or "job security" stuff for DHS folks. I think we are seeing the eventual backlash - hopefully we find a reasonable medium.
Back when the kids were younger, nothing beat cramming a double-wide stroller through the metal detector. Or getting the stink eye for waiting with my daughter so that my wife could go first and so that my young daughter that didn't walk through to the other side alone.
A few times a year, I teach at a federal gov't facility. When entering, you get the full security check - person, vehicle, etc. Once you enter, you are given an ID for your length of stay.
Leave the property and re-entering? Why just show them the ID. No checks, just a wave. :saywhat:
I read it as, "provide for the security of their aircraft." They don't really care about the passengers.
I have noticed a divide on the issue. Those that have to fly or fly often don't see the new procedures as excessive and even welcome the extra security. Those that rarely fly are the most upset. You'd think it would be the other way around. :confused:
TKGAngel
11-22-10, 02:21 PM
The solution, he said, is to allow the private sector, preferably the airlines, to provide for the security of their property.
And if each airline has to pay for security, just add another fee onto the cost of the ticket.
Corner5
11-22-10, 04:44 PM
And if each airline has to pay for security, just add another fee onto the cost of the ticket.
Yep.
Corner5
11-22-10, 04:47 PM
Because you knew they were going to do it-
pcqI3tCSf-s
WickerBill
11-22-10, 04:49 PM
I witnessed one of these new pat-downs the other day at MCO and was absolutely mortified for the woman involved. Running fingers inside the waistband of her pants, full circle tour of her breasts while her hands were held out Jesus-style, and her clenched-up face while she got her inseam measured made me think that this is what you invariably get when a government agency gets heady with power... except usually it's more figurative.
MCO says they can do it with private firms at the same price as the TSA and are looking into opting out.
MCO says they can do it with private firms at the same price as the TSA and are looking into opting out.
SFO uses private security, but they still have follow the TSA procedures.
I can't see the TSA giving in on this one because then they would have to defend all their other procedures, like taking off your shoes and no liquids. They'll stand firm and yell "9/11" all day long.
TravelGal
11-22-10, 05:59 PM
I read it as, "provide for the security of their aircraft." They don't really care about the passengers.
I have noticed a divide on the issue. Those that have to fly or fly often don't see the new procedures as excessive and even welcome the extra security. Those that rarely fly are the most upset. You'd think it would be the other way around. :confused:
Yes, that's the way I read it. Meaning that unless we're their property like the aircraft, they don't give a flying .... about us. Which, is probably true. Moving on, I do disagree that it's the people who don't fly a lot that are so upset. All of the travel writers I know and most of the agents are in a huge fit over this. And of course the pilots have already opted out.
racer2c
11-22-10, 06:18 PM
I read it as, "provide for the security of their aircraft." They don't really care about the passengers.
I have noticed a divide on the issue. Those that have to fly or fly often don't see the new procedures as excessive and even welcome the extra security. Those that rarely fly are the most upset. You'd think it would be the other way around. :confused:
A few of my friends who commute via plane (one from Nashville to DC twice a week, the other from Tampa to DC twice a week) are hating the new process. One sent me an email today saying that security took an hour.
My wife works with people that fly daily and are considering other lines of work. :)
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