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NismoZ
08-30-10, 11:04 AM
National news is making a HUGE story out of the death of a 13 yr. old rider at Indy. Lawyers, parents & fellow riders all weighing in. Seriously, how many minors die in baseball and football each year, let alone skiing, snow(& skate)boarding, BMX, etc. Don't want to minimize the danger or tragedy but I don't think motorcycle racing is the leading cause of death to minors in sports. Is it?

Methanolandbrats
08-30-10, 11:16 AM
National news is making a HUGE story out of the death of a 13 yr. old rider at Indy. Lawyers, parents & fellow riders all weighing in. Seriously, how many minors die in baseball and football each year, let alone skiing, snow(&skate)boarding, BMX, etc. Don't want to minimize the danger or tragedy but I don't think notorcycle racing is the leading cause of death to minors in sports. Is it?

Probably not. Football (heat, trauma) usually kills a few each year although coaches are not as stupid as they were ten years ago.

NismoZ
08-30-10, 11:38 AM
How's this for stupid? Muslim footballers in my area had to endure 2-aday practices without food OR water. Ramadan. Coaches were (TOLD to be) sensitive to the player's religious beliefs and said they could take a break or rest whenever they wanted. Can you imagine the field day for lawyers if one actually stroked out or died!? Coaches couldn't tell them they would not be allowed to practice (religious discrimination!) and be ineligible for the 1st game or 2 (state law) but were not allowed to treat them equally in practice, and had to endure the uncertainty that a kid, (even one taking it easy, been in the 90s here) could suffer a serious problem and HE and the school could be held liable...I'm sure.:shakehead (Solutions anyone?)

Gnam
08-30-10, 12:01 PM
Wasn't there a story about teams in Michigan holding practices after sunset for this reason?

Methanolandbrats
08-30-10, 12:16 PM
How's this for stupid? Muslim footballers in my area had to endure 2-aday practices without food OR water. Ramadan. Coaches were (TOLD to be) sensitive to the player's religious beliefs and said they could take a break or rest whenever they wanted. Can you imagine the field day for lawyers if one actually stroked out or died!? Coaches couldn't tell them they would not be allowed to practice (religious discrimination!) and be ineligible for the 1st game or 2 (state law) but were not allowed to treat them equally in practice, and had to endure the uncertainty that a kid, (even one taking it easy, been in the 90s here) could suffer a serious problem and HE and the school could be held liable...I'm sure.:shakehead (Solutions anyone?)

Solution? Bench them for safety reasons and they miss the first game. That way religious law is observed and state law is observed. Tell any lawyer that gets lathered up to **** off.

NismoZ
08-30-10, 02:22 PM
:thumbup:That's what I'd do...but I bet the principal would be all over me:irked: He'd be upset at the possible headline in the local morning paper: "HS Football Coach Bars Muslim Players From Ramadan Practice." And in smaller print before the scathing story: "Coaches Action Causes Muslim Ineligibility." A coming story, I fear. Now, if the kid is 6-2, 210, has good hands and runs a killer 40??:eek: Believe me, a top QB from near here a few seasons ago was reinstated (pending court action) after a lawsuit charged his expulsion from the team for drinking was illegal...even though he AND his parents had signed the state required promise to be alcohol and drug free. Also, he was being treated privately (school had no right to know) for alcohol abuse which they stated was a violation of his right to protection under the Americans With Disabilities Act. In addition they also charged the school action would ruin his chances of obtaining a college scholarship!

oddlycalm
08-30-10, 02:31 PM
Terrible tragedy for the family. Since I started following motorcycle racing in the early 1960's this is the first time I can ever recall it getting coverage in the mainstream media. "If it bleeds it leads" remains the touchstone for journalism.

oc

cameraman
08-30-10, 03:34 PM
We had a much younger kid die in an accident at Rocky Mountain Raceway a year ago.
An 8-year-old motocross rider died at Rocky Mountain Raceway early Saturday morning, his family and a track official said. Logan Emerson, of Sandy, was riding an 85cc Honda dirt bike on the raceway's motocross track as part of Friday night races about 1 a.m., said his mother, BeLinda Emerson. He was leading the race when he came down a hill too quickly and overshot a "tabletop" jump, went over a berm, then hit a plywood deflection wall, she said. He suffered internal injuries and was flown to Primary Children's Medical Center, where he died.
Tragedies happen, the idea is to minimize the possibility without completely negating the point of taking part.

Indy
08-30-10, 08:02 PM
(Solutions anyone?)

Why do we have to cater to the superstitions and primitive practices of any religion? Tell them to STFU and play or miss the game.

And before anyone says anything, this is not an anti-Muslim post, but an anti-having to bend over backwards to accommodate everyone post.

If anyone is demanding that I respect his farcical beliefs, then he is automatically violating my right to ignore such beliefs.

grungex
08-30-10, 09:37 PM
:thumbup:

Methanolandbrats
08-30-10, 10:16 PM
Why do we have to cater to the superstitions and primitive practices of any religion? Tell them to STFU and play or miss the game.

:thumbup: True. Both my daughters played high school basketball and that sounds like something their coach would say :D It's often lost on people that sports is not a democracy. When you make the team, it's kinda like joining the military and what the coach says is the final word.

NismoZ
08-30-10, 10:21 PM
Welll, YEAH. I missed a bunch of school stuff when I was in 6th grade because my mom worked out a deal to get me an early dismissal so I could catch a bus for confirmation classes downtown at church. Net result?... I got confirmed OK, but missed a bunch of school stuff! Seemed logical to me.

Methanolandbrats
08-30-10, 10:50 PM
My girls varsity coach benched another girl for attending a religious education confirmation class graduation. All she missed was a practice, but he questioned her commitment to basketball :D

Fio1
08-31-10, 01:01 AM
The point the media fails to understand was that he wasn't racing a 1000cc beast. He was on a 40 HP bike, 250cc 4-stroke racing against 125cc 2-stroke bikes. They also failed to understand that he was racing against other 12 & 13 year-olds only. For me that is much safer then a 16-year old racing AMA super bikes. The reality is that if the tragedy happened at VIR, Buttonwillow or any other track, no one would say anything. Even if he were driving a kart, they'd say something because it happened at MIS. I think it would be an issue if he was racing 600cc bike or something.

But, I am against 11 & 13 year-olds racing in the Skip Barber 2-liter championship; which happens all the time. That I believe is completely insane! Until 15 you shouldn't be allowed to move up to cars or high cc bikes imo.

A 9 year-old girl was killed in a kart 2-weeks ago in Colorado.

Hard Driver
08-31-10, 08:20 AM
Look, I would not let my kid do it because it is too dangerous. But that is my choice as a parent. I don't think that I have a right to tell others what they can do until it become neglegent. And this was not neglegent on the parents part.

Andrew Longman
08-31-10, 09:20 AM
If I read the paper this am correctly it said the kid sat up after wiping out and raised his arms, then stood up and raised his arms to be seen before he was hit. If true that makes this all the more tragic.

It is news mostly because it happened on a MotoGP weekend and more press is covering it. Kid racing against kids on age appropriate bikes is OK I guess, but I know my mother, wife and others would disagree. I DO have an issue with an 8 yr old racing a bike at 1 am as mentioned above. I coach football for 8-11 yr olds and I know how little attention they can give to instructions. I would hate to expect them to follow instructions when serious injury is a possibility... especially when it is late and they are tired.

As for football practice (or any sport), the coach sets the schedule and if you agree to play you agree to the schedule. If you need to miss something, it is important to let the coach know why (and that it is not just because you didn't feel like it), but it is up to the coach and highly likely that you will not get playing time as a result of missed practices. In fact in my state at all levels, it is a state law that athletes need to have a certain amount of conditioning before full practices and a certain amount of practices before competition.

But a coach who takes his/her role seriously knows he/she is creating effective young men and women, not just winning teams and will not question the character or punish an athlete for meeting other important obligations. However, to be fair to the athlete, the team and the regs the athlete may not participate in competition as they might if the practices hadn't been missed.

Methanolandbrats
08-31-10, 12:51 PM
Kids racing bikes in a structured environment is a lot safer than what I see in the country around here. Lots of bumpkins let their lil' crackers bomb around the yard, fields and woods on three and four wheelers :eek:


But a coach who takes his/her role seriously knows he/she is creating effective young men and women, not just winning teams and will not question the character or punish an athlete for meeting other important obligations. However, to be fair to the athlete, the team and the regs the athlete may not participate in competition as they might if the practices hadn't been missed. I agree to a point. I coached youth soccer up till the girls entered high school and I shared your philosophy. Then things changed. My experience with high school coaches was not good. All but one of them was an ego maniac who cared about nothing but winning and putting a feather in their own cap.

cameraman
08-31-10, 02:00 PM
Kids racing bikes in a structured environment is a lot safer than what I see in the country around here. Lots of bumpkins let their lil' crackers bomb around the yard, fields and woods on three and four wheelers :eek:

****, come to Utah where they kill them off at a steady rate on ATVs.:shakehead:flame:

oddlycalm
08-31-10, 02:41 PM
****, come to Utah where they kill them off at a steady rate on ATVs.:shakehead:flame:
Yep, any rural area has plenty of kids on motorized vehicles becoming organ donors on a regular basis. If the media wanted context it would be easy to get; check with ER docs.

oc

BarillaGirl
08-31-10, 03:35 PM
I'm still mystified as to how the three people in my near and extended family who were at the track all weekend don't seem to have heard of this incident at all. Perhaps if you're too drunk and you don't read the Indy Star, there's no way to find out? :confused:

NismoZ
08-31-10, 07:00 PM
(Andrew)But, you see, that's just my point of frustration. These Muslim players didn't miss practice. They were there, they did some drills and engaged in limited practice with deference to their weakened state due to lack of food and water. They MET the state requirement with the help of the state (school) and were not subject to any disciplinary action...but as a coach I'd really worry about their ability to avoid a physical problem either in practice OR in the first game or two. I would NOT play them...unless they were 6-2, 210, had good hands....:D

Andrew Longman
08-31-10, 10:40 PM
I agree to a point...

No we agree completely. The HS coaches you describe are off base and don't understand their role. I think my local HS is lucky in that their Football coach create men first and winners second, but he also understands that a team of capable young men are more likely to win. Last season by the fourth game of the season they were down to the fourth string QB, a sophomore. That was only a call on the rest of the team to suck it up, execute, and fill the leadership void. They still made the state playoffs and the lessons of that year has set them up for a highly successful year this year.

That all said, if you are undertaking a career as a HS coach you surely understand that boards and parents are much more likely to hire and keep you if you win (and get students scholarships) than if you create future leaders and productive members of society, so I get why there are probably fewer and fewer "good" coaches.

Andrew Longman
08-31-10, 10:47 PM
(Andrew)But, you see, that's just my point of frustration. Funny this would not be a story 10 years ago. How the USA and its demographics have changed. Muslim football players? Now not so odd.

I would worry that players who didn't fully participate would not be conditioned sufficiently to safely play. I would be up front about that because it is everybody's interest. I would be as accommodating as possible but under no circumstances would I sacrifice safety. The lesson is every action and choice has consequences, even doing the right thing. And no game is so important to sacrifice safety or your (religious) values.