View Full Version : USGP Austin, TX?!?!
As previously noted perhaps Bernie isn't the only one considering "implosions" at other points in the schedule and finds himself looking for something more secure rather than more profitable? Wasn't too long ago he didn't "need" the US. Fast changes coming from ALL directions. ( and yes, Dallas. Pretty sure it was hot in Phoenix that day, too!:D)
Looks like the haters have figured out a way to possibly kill the whole deal...
Austin Statesman (http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/racing/entries/2011/06/07/the_city_of_austins_official.html?cxntfid=blogs_fo rmula_austin)
eh, that's all well and fine, the memo states that this it's not an official document or an agreement.
the bottleneck is the city council having hearings on whether they'll be the official host city, that plus 4M private money would be required to get the process going to tap into the Major Events Fund
TrueBrit
06-09-11, 02:52 PM
Who else will be there?
I would be there, but that happens to be TB Jr's 21st birthday, and I think that Daddy spending that particular weekend in a drunken stupor in Texas with some of his mates, rather than with her would be monumentally unpopular....unless I can persuade her to come with me of course...:D
WHAT!? That little kid I saw with you at the ChampCar open test at the Chicago Paperclip...is TWENTY (almost) ONE!? :eek:
TrueBrit
06-09-11, 05:18 PM
WHAT!? That little kid I saw with you at the ChampCar open test at the Chicago Paperclip...is TWENTY (almost) ONE!? :eek:
Yup...20 next week....can hardly believe it myself...
Anteater
06-09-11, 11:08 PM
Who else will be there?
Mr. Anteater and I hope to be there! :cool: We have the date penciled in, but wouldn't mind if they changed it.
Real open-wheel racing in the US again, WOO HOO!!!!!
Michaelhatesfans
06-09-11, 11:54 PM
Not sure about the reality of it, but I do like the idea of catching an F1 race on the same weekend as a REK concert.:cool:
Wheel-Nut
06-11-11, 07:03 PM
They are moving dirt out there.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/F1Austin
That's a lot to get built and get FIA accreditation before 17 June next year. I see another Assen here. :\
so local pro-f1 organizers have some requests that I am passing on
step 1: sign this online petition that has been organized to counter the local petition anti-f1 organizers are presenting to the Austin City Council this week.
http://www.change.org/petitions/tell-the-austin-city-council-to-vote-yes-on-formula-1
w/o Council approval and $4M kicked-in (from private citizens, not from the city), the State can't approve the 25M for reimbursement to the race organizer for the sanctioning fee. the facility's privately funded through Red McComb's investor group so there's no public money there.
step 2: email Mayor Leffingwell and the rest of the council and tell them where you're coming from and how many people you're bringing and what you expect your budget that weekend to run.
Lee.Leffingwell@ci.austin.tx.us; Chris.Riley@ci.austin.tx.us; Mike.Martinez@ci.austin.tx.us; Randi.Shade@ci.austin.tx.us; Laura.Morrison@ci.austin.tx.us; Bill.Spelman@ci.austin.tx.us; Sheryl.Cole@ci.austin.tx.us
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit
JohnHKart
06-15-11, 09:04 PM
Opening day is a year from today. Non stop flight from LA is only 3 hours. (I can actually get out of there Sun night and be back at work next day) Planning to be there.
Wheel-Nut
06-15-11, 09:39 PM
Non-Stop LA to Austin?!! Really?
I can drive there in 2.5 hours or ride my bike there in 11 hours.
I think I'll drive!! :D
Hmmm...saw a giant red HOT blob on the TV weather map in that area yesterday. Saw a "108" nearby, too. With global warming and all, it's likely to be a "110" next year!:) Reserve me an air conditioned skybox, I'll pay you back later.
Wheel-Nut
06-16-11, 08:33 PM
Yes, it is hot here this year. No rain, the wind has been blowing since January and hasn't stopped blowing, burn bans; just what most people imagine Texas to be like.
It's not a typical year but damn!!
As previously noted perhaps Bernie isn't the only one considering "implosions" at other points in the schedule and finds himself looking for something more secure rather than more profitable? Wasn't too long ago he didn't "need" the US. Fast changes coming from ALL directions.
S. Korea redeploys missiles along DMZ (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/06/16/international/i195701D86.DTL&tsp=1)
Korean GP scheduled for October 16. Coincidence?
Texas better watch out. It's a slippery slope from hosting a new F1 GP to the breakdown of civil society and open warfare.
Bahrain, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Korea, Canada :p
Riots recently in China, too.:eek: Who'd a thunk? Might have to explore racing again in Havana. Been a long time since Fangio was kidnapped there.
Rogue Leader
06-22-11, 08:46 PM
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110622/F1/110629944?utm_source=DailyDrive20110622&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=article1&utm_content=20110622-Formula_One__Austin_residents_file_lawsuit_over_$2 5_million_U.S._Grand_Prix_payment&utm_campaign=awdailydrive
Local Residents File lawsuit over $25m Payment.
:gomer:
cameraman
06-22-11, 11:08 PM
A poster child for frivolous lawsuits:shakehead
extramundane
06-23-11, 08:11 AM
Might have to explore racing again in Havana.
I like the idea of an HRT held together with bailing wire and a '63 Trabant engine. :thumbup:
Insomniac
06-23-11, 02:49 PM
Yes, it is hot here this year. No rain, the wind has been blowing since January and hasn't stopped blowing, burn bans; just what most people imagine Texas to be like.
It's not a typical year but damn!!
If I go, it will rain. Rain followed me from Boston (started right after I landed) to Montreal to Maine and back to Boston.
well, enjoy coming for Moto, high chance the Major Events Trust Fund money won't be able to legally be used to pay the sanctioning fee now w/ Kathleen Tovo winning her runoff for city council (yay non-single memer districts!), which gives the Austin Neighborhood Council nimby's (those of a specific demographic from a central part of town) owning a majority of the council, and before she's even sworn in she's demanded the F1 vote be delayed for her, and yesterday the council voted to delay.
currently 4-5 vote for F1 w/ the board w/ Tovo.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110622/F1/110629944?utm_source=DailyDrive20110622&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=article1&utm_content=20110622-Formula_One__Austin_residents_file_lawsuit_over_$2 5_million_U.S._Grand_Prix_payment&utm_campaign=awdailydrive
Local Residents File lawsuit over $25m Payment.
:gomer:
it's a Del Valle ISD (district where this is occuring, which will boost their property tax revenue, ie school revenue, intake) administrator, a teacher (the teachers are whining that F1 shouldn't happen if teachers are being laid off, nevermind that the METF doesn't go to funding teachers, if you want to boost education funding, push for higher property taxes since property taxes are what fund bloody schools, and the METF is a rebate from sales tax revenues, although in the 1st year it would be an advance), and some lawyer.
We plan to be there. The question is how many from the family will make the trip down. Daughter, especially, wants to be there for the whole weekend.
host city measure passes at city hall just now 5-2, after a shakedown job by enviro-nutjobs, only 25,000 parking spots on site, everything else must be public transit or biking, they need to provide bike lanes on the highway, provide showers for cyclists, put a public transport service contract for bid and choose the lowest pollution provider (since by being outside of the city limits, austin deserves to dictate those kinds of things, they did the same thing for shuttle service to football games from remote lots, and in the end the service provider just closed up shop than deal w/ city council futher), and various other meaningless enviro-nut measures that drive up cost w/ minimal environmental improvement.
oh, and they are required to host electrical vehicle races too...
datachicane
06-29-11, 06:16 PM
oh, and they are required to host electrical vehicle races too...
Not to highjack, and I'm certainly not condoning this sort of arm-twisting, but I was at the NEDRA electric drag nationals a couple of years back and it was seriously cool.
TravelGal
06-30-11, 01:29 AM
Not to highjack, and I'm certainly not condoning this sort of arm-twisting, but I was at the NEDRA electric drag nationals a couple of years back and it was seriously cool.
As a matter of fact, that sorta grabbed my attention too. I mean, better than drifting for [blank] sake. :shakehead
I also like the idea of shuttles because I don't think there's a lot of sense in staying near but not at a track. "Downtown" there are lots of college places and even relatively decent places for fun and frolic after track-time. Not to mention some pretty decent hotels--assuming they are not all bought out already by the F1 hierarchy.
datachicane
06-30-11, 01:43 AM
Now, don't be knocking drifting. When Formula D (or whatever they call it) was on the support schedule for the Portland Champcar race a few years back, it was quite possibly the most comedic thing I've ever seen in my life. :rofl:
They were on the schedule for all three days, IIRC, and started with a good-sized grid of cars. It was apparent from the beginning that these guys were more accustomed to parking lots than a proper road course, and cars starting shedding parts and grenading engines at a furious rate. By day 3 there were only two cars still in running condition for the big main event, and neither made it more than a lap and a half before joining their crippled brethren in fartcan hell. With a big hole in the schedule to fill, we were treated to 40+ minutes of Formula D's captive paid spokesperson waxing poetic over the PA about how totally awesome Formula D is, doing his best to ad-lib over a silent track littered with oil dry.
Michaelhatesfans
06-30-11, 01:52 AM
Now, don't be knocking drifting. When Formula D (or whatever they call it) was on the support schedule for the Portland Champcar race a few years back, it was quite possibly the most comedic thing I've ever seen in my life.
They made quite an impression on the corner workers at the ALMS event... Damn near had to get security between them.:laugh:
opinionated ow
06-30-11, 02:09 AM
Now, don't be knocking drifting. When Formula D (or whatever they call it) was on the support schedule for the Portland Champcar race a few years back, it was quite possibly the most comedic thing I've ever seen in my life. :rofl:
They were on the schedule for all three days, IIRC, and started with a good-sized grid of cars. It was apparent from the beginning that these guys were more accustomed to parking lots than a proper road course, and cars starting shedding parts and grenading engines at a furious rate. By day 3 there were only two cars still in running condition for the big main event, and neither made it more than a lap and a half before joining their crippled brethren in fartcan hell. With a big hole in the schedule to fill, we were treated to 40+ minutes of Formula D's captive paid spokesperson waxing poetic over the PA about how totally awesome Formula D is, doing his best to ad-lib over a silent track littered with oil dry.
A1GP at Eastern Creek at one point they had about 35,000 spectators there. Nobody cared in the least bit about the drifting cars until one of them blew out a tyre which subsequently ripped off the rear bumper and I think exhaust pipe. When that happened, the whole crowd cheered.
Hmmm...the $$$ problem seems clear enough. It's obvious the answer lies in increasing ALL taxes! A 67% increase in the state income tax seems about right. Share the pain! Oh, and BORROW out the ying yang! That's what we do around these parts. Ask the Gov to go get 18 billion, that's how ours wants to solve our problems. And expand casino and slots gambling! FORGET about the goose, go for that golden egg! Tax the casinos @ 70%, but DON'T let the people SMOKE for God's sake...it isn't good for them! Be darned if I can figure out why casino revenues are down by 22%. Maybe we should raise their tax! Heck, the General Assembly ALREADY let's the casinos cash customer's welfare checks on site! What more do they want!? I am going to propose that some of those borrowed billions go toward the building of "State Exit Toll Booths" to collect fees for the ever increasing number of people leaving this state. Now THAT might just be the money-maker we need!
datachicane
06-30-11, 11:11 AM
<>
Wheel-Nut
06-30-11, 03:07 PM
V8 Supercars announced for 2013.
http://circuitoftheamericas.com/
was just coming to post that...
this is awesome :D
Will I be able to get a couple of freebie XXXX golds at the party pub tho?
Wheel-Nut
06-30-11, 03:51 PM
Will I be able to get a couple of freebie XXXX golds at the party pub tho?
no, we have Lone Star. :thumbup:
Wheel-Nut
06-30-11, 03:52 PM
was just coming to post that...
this is awesome :D
:thumbup::thumbup:
Rogue Leader
06-30-11, 04:03 PM
Austin City Council votes in favor... heres your 25 million, enjoy!
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110629/F1/110629840?utm_source=DailyDrive20110630&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=missedarticle1more&utm_content=20110629-Formula_One__Austin_City_Council_votes_in_favor_of _U.S._Grand_Prix&utm_campaign=awdailydrive
no, we have Lone Star. :thumbup:
No XXXX Angels then. :thumdown:
376
chop456
07-01-11, 01:25 AM
I call third from the right!
Get me that skybox, suite, condo...whatever they're gonna call them. PS...TOLD ya!
Wheel-Nut
07-01-11, 10:27 AM
No XXXX Angels then. :thumdown:
334
Plenty of HOT women in Texas to keep your eyes busy.
opinionated ow
07-01-11, 11:00 AM
I find it kind of buggered up that the Australian Touring Car Championship is going to spend a fortune to race in front of nobody in Texas when they keep stopping racing in front of good crowds in Australia because the governments won't pay them money. This is going to go to hell in a handbasket before we know it.
Hmmm...and I thought this was a good thing. Do V-8s partner with F-1 anywhere else? Has it worked out when/if they have?
Get me that skybox, suite, condo...whatever they're gonna call them. PS...TOLD ya!
Sorry, Austin's full up, moose out front should've told you.
Phew. just saved a bundle!
Trevor Longman
07-01-11, 08:46 PM
Hmmm...and I thought this was a good thing. Do V-8s partner with F-1 anywhere else? Has it worked out when/if they have?
They've been an Aussie GP support race for as long as I can remember, but only recently has it been anything more than an exhibition. Also next year they're most likely going to be a Singapore GP support race. Whether or not that will be a points paying race is, as far as I know, still up in the air.
They've been an Aussie GP support race for as long as I can remember, but only recently has it been anything more than an exhibition. Also next year they're most likely going to be a Singapore GP support race. Whether or not that will be a points paying race is, as far as I know, still up in the air.
No, Bernie does not allow any support race to be part of any championship, except the ones that he owns: GP2, GP3.
opinionated ow
07-02-11, 02:17 AM
No, Bernie does not allow any support race to be part of any championship, except the ones that he owns: GP2, GP3.
There are exceptions; I think Monaco is exempt from that regulation, e.g. Formula Renault 3.5 and F3 Euroseries with the former having run annual championship races and the latter a one off normal series round a few years ago.
cameraman
07-02-11, 04:10 AM
The Porsche Mobil 1 Supercup runs in support of the F1 races in Turkey, Catalunya, Monaco, Silverstone, Nurburgring, Hungary, Spa, and Monza. It most definitely has a championship. The series is owned and run by Porsche AG.
cameraman
07-08-11, 04:59 PM
Local Residents File lawsuit over $25m Payment.
:gomer:
And the lawsuit was dismissed today.
Insomniac
07-30-11, 12:47 PM
They're proposing a new 2012 calendar that would have Austin be November 16-18 before Brazil.
cameraman
07-30-11, 11:36 PM
Makes a hell of a lot more sense than Texas in July.
f that. I want a mtl-aus 1 wk vacation. let you no-melanin having people worry about the heat :D
racer2c
08-03-11, 12:40 PM
f that. I want a mtl-aus 1 wk vacation. let you no-melanin having people worry about the heat :D
Malta to Austin? Millinocket to Austin? Mean Low Tide to Austin? Magnetic Local Time? Mechanized Loop Test? :confused::)
opinionated ow
08-03-11, 01:16 PM
Malta to Austin? Millinocket to Austin? Mean Low Tide to Austin? Magnetic Local Time? Mechanized Loop Test? :confused::)
I was thinking to Australia or Minlaton to Austria
Oh, KINGS MOUNTAIN! Nice place!:thumbup:
one of these days, I'm finally going to find that NismoZ decoder ring
TravelGal
08-11-11, 12:33 PM
They're proposing a new 2012 calendar that would have Austin be November 16-18 before Brazil.
Looks like you get your wish, Insomniac. I, on the other hand, am disappointed to see it the weekend before Thanksgiving.
It does make it a more important race, and, following the money, Bernie probably got a better deal on the hotels for that exact weekend than he would have in June. However, the air could be be more difficult for the fans. If you want to see any of Austin, go before the race. No dilly-dallying around afterwards or you'll get caught in the full flights of people heading home for Thanksgiving.
Insomniac
08-13-11, 02:55 PM
Looks like you get your wish, Insomniac. I, on the other hand, am disappointed to see it the weekend before Thanksgiving.
It does make it a more important race, and, following the money, Bernie probably got a better deal on the hotels for that exact weekend than he would have in June. However, the air could be be more difficult for the fans. If you want to see any of Austin, go before the race. No dilly-dallying around afterwards or you'll get caught in the full flights of people heading home for Thanksgiving.
I wasn't wishing for it, but it did seem a bit crazy to have it in late June. I'd assume the drivers would be whining about the temperatures and if the summer is anything like this one, there would be heat warnings for extreme temperatures. I would've voted for late September if a choice was given.
miatanut
08-20-11, 08:57 PM
There was a secret promo in Austin Friday. The paper said it was canceled and my brother in law had word that it wasn't so they went down. My nephew shot this:
HZEp17FZHIk
Couthard behind the wheel.
If they do that kind of promotion with the race, they've got problems. :shakehead
Trevor Longman
08-20-11, 09:09 PM
Jeez does Coulthard have some sort of superpower that allows him to be everywhere in the world at once? He's a BBC commentator, DTM driver, and "Retired F1 Superstar" at every automotive event in the world. :laugh:
miatanut
08-20-11, 09:15 PM
Jeez does Coulthard have some sort of superpower that allows him to be everywhere in the world at once? He's a BBC commentator, DTM driver, and "Retired F1 Superstar" at every automotive event in the world. :laugh:
He even posed for a picture with my three nephews! :laugh:
cameraman
08-20-11, 10:21 PM
Jeez does Coulthard have some sort of superpower that allows him to be everywhere in the world at once? He's a BBC commentator, DTM driver, and "Retired F1 Superstar" at every automotive event in the world. :laugh:
Nice job if you can get it.
racer2c
08-20-11, 11:58 PM
Some say that he's terrified of ducks, and that there's an airport in Russia named after him...
dVxQzseaUb8
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Red+Bull+Racing+Visits+Austin+up9W1sKsSDCl.jpg
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Red+Bull+Racing+Visits+Austin+K_QM8c7kdm5l.jpg
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Red+Bull+Racing+Visits+Austin+fTjy1lRdS7al.jpg
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Red+Bull+Racing+Visits+Austin+XL5g4xBvSrsl.jpg
Ain't nothin more Texican than a rooster tail of dust. :D:thumbup:
Anteater
08-23-11, 03:13 PM
Those are a hoot, Ank! :D:thumbup:
Michaelhatesfans
08-23-11, 10:59 PM
Do all buildings in Texas look like the School Book Depository?
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Red+Bull+Racing+Visits+Austin+XL5g4xBvSrsl.jpg
opinionated ow
08-23-11, 11:22 PM
looks like the circuit has some decent elevation change
dVxQzseaUb8
That track is perfect. Don't do another thing to it.
official video out
http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport/story/59359.html?CMP=OTC-RSS
chop456
09-21-11, 01:30 PM
SRV statue. :thumbup:
photos showing the construction progress:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=306212812738399&set=a.306212722738408.98367.219399881419693&type=1&theater
vertical construction's begun, and the county issued the permits for the 5 major buildings including the grandstand & tower.
Good, hopefully they get this done. I would love to have two grands prix in this country.
Napoleon
11-02-11, 01:47 PM
vertical construction's begun, and the county issued the permits for the 5 major buildings including the grandstand & tower.
I assume you mean the shell permits have been issued and that they previously had demo and foundation permits.
Do you have any idea of where their financing is coming from?
Lux Interior
11-02-11, 02:24 PM
I hope it's like Road Atlanta, where there are just viewing mounds and you can walk around.
I assume you mean the shell permits have been issued and that they previously had demo and foundation permits.
Do you have any idea of where their financing is coming from?
ya, all the work to date has been moving earth around, moving water/power mains, foundations, etc. now they have actual rebar and forms above ground level.
the backing is legitimate:
http://offcamber.net/forums/showpost.php?p=280208&postcount=132
both men are, how they say, "kind of a big deal."
I hope it's like Road Atlanta, where there are just viewing mounds and you can walk around.
open viewing berms are supposed to be part of the design, with some googling you should easily find some interviews with Tavo expounding on that aspect of the track design
TravelGal
11-12-11, 03:22 PM
Racer is quoting Bernie as alluding to trouble in paradise. There's guys movin the earth and there's guys with contracts. They just haven't talked to each other. :rolleyes:
So if BERNIE says there's trouble I assume that means u & me are the asses?
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/racing/entries/2011/11/15/developers_suspending_construc.html
construction suspended indefinitely. Tavo & Bernie are trying to shakedown Epstein, get him to buy out Tavo's promotion company or sign a new contract with FOM with a marked up fee. Tavo has no leverage since the $25M from the state doesn't require Tavo, and Tavo isn't the one funding the project.
chop456
11-16-11, 12:13 AM
It'll make a great supermotard track.
Lux Interior
11-16-11, 07:29 AM
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/racing/entries/2011/11/15/developers_suspending_construc.html
construction suspended indefinitely. Tavo & Bernie are trying to shakedown Epstein, get him to buy out Tavo's promotion company or sign a new contract with FOM with a marked up fee. Tavo has no leverage since the $25M from the state doesn't require Tavo, and Tavo isn't the one funding the project.
I'm glad I didn't get too excited about this race.
I'm glad I didn't get too excited about this race.
Is there a race left to get excited about?
Rogue Leader
11-16-11, 02:07 PM
Is there a race left to get excited about?
Apparently not:
Game over for the U.S. Grand Prix and the Circuit of the Americas
(http://www.autoweek.com/article/20111116/FREE/111119900?utm_source=DailyDrive20111116&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=article3more&utm_content=20111116-Game_over_for_the_U.S._Grand_Prix_and_the_Circuit_ of_the_Americas&utm_campaign=awdailydrive)
Bernie says Tavo contract is now cancelled and FOM is the only way COTA can get a contract now: http://adamcooperf1.com/2011/11/16/ecclestone-ready-to-cancel-2012-us-gp/
shrewd response to Epstein's move to put the project on hold.
billionaires are idiots.
chop456
11-16-11, 02:26 PM
I knew he couldn't be trusted.
http://cdn.photos.tmz.com/gallery_images/images/2008/09/0926_robert_heyes_wi_full.jpg
Wait, wait, wait. Did COTA try using IndyCar as leverage, yet?
That should get Bernie to fold in no time. :tony:
TrueBrit
11-16-11, 05:18 PM
Apparently not:
Game over for the U.S. Grand Prix and the Circuit of the Americas
(http://www.autoweek.com/article/20111116/FREE/111119900?utm_source=DailyDrive20111116&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=article3more&utm_content=20111116-Game_over_for_the_U.S._Grand_Prix_and_the_Circuit_ of_the_Americas&utm_campaign=awdailydrive)
Well, that was fun while it lasted....Now we'll have to see when the Noo Joisey Gee Pee gets cancelled...what's the over/under on that, mid-2012 or after they announce the 2013 schedule? Just for grins I'll take the over...
Shocking, I tell you. Simply SHOCKING!:rofl:
High Sided
11-16-11, 08:16 PM
This will never happen. China, Malaysia, Turkey, Bahrain can barely afford to pay Bernie and the "city and state" are on board :rofl:
from may 2010, good call :thumbup:
opinionated ow
11-16-11, 08:51 PM
Well, that was fun while it lasted....Now we'll have to see when the Noo Joisey Gee Pee gets cancelled...what's the over/under on that, mid-2012 or after they announce the 2013 schedule? Just for grins I'll take the over...
Just run it at watkins glen...
Spicoli
11-16-11, 09:14 PM
Bummer. Was planning on going. :\
Lux Interior
11-16-11, 10:20 PM
Bummer. Was planning on going. :\
My 13 year old wanted to go - he's heavily into cars right now. Loves Forza Motorsport and the U.S. Version of Top Gear. This sucks. I guess it's crapwagons and ALMS at Mid Ohio AGAIN.:shakehead
Lux Interior
11-16-11, 10:22 PM
I knew he couldn't be trusted.
http://cdn.photos.tmz.com/gallery_images/images/2008/09/0926_robert_heyes_wi_full.jpg
Dear Chop456: Posting Defender's high school senior photo is not fun and not funny. :thumdown:
Methanolandbrats
11-17-11, 12:05 AM
from may 2010, good call :thumbup:
Thank you. Holy ****, I"m not bannded. :eek:
Spicoli
11-17-11, 12:07 AM
Open wheel racing continues to over promise and under deliver.
Remind me again why we give a ****?
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