LCD vs. Plasma?

[dando]

OK, so I'm sick of dealing with the 8 yo first gen DLP that has been in and out of the shop for the past 6 mos. Time to find a new tube. I'm just looking for a mid-level set for casual viewing since I have the big screen in the man cave. I found a decent Sammy plasma for $550, but it has limited input capability with only 2 HDMI and 2 component inputs (one that can also be used for composite :yuck:). I would likely only connect one source of each to it (HDMI STB or Tivo and a DVD player via component), but future flexibility is a concern. The receiver I have for the setup does component switching, but not HDMI. I also found a mid-level Hitachi LCD for ~$600 with a 120hz display and a full suite of inputs. I've been a DLP guy so far, so I've only casually looked @ LCD and plasma displays. Which way would you go? I'd love to go with an LED LCD display, but I don't want to spend $1K+ for a 42" display.

-Kevin

[Sean Malone]

I thought they stopped making plasma's 2 years ago. :confused:

[dando]

I thought they stopped making plasma's 2 years ago. :confused:

Nope. Panny has a couple as does Sammy. They even have a couple @ Sam's. It's about 10:1 LCD to plasma these days, tho.

-Kevin

[WickerBill]

If you like 'em heavy and reflective, get plasma. Otherwise, LCD.

The plasma will have several things that don't matter one iota to you for casual viewing (deeper blacks, ~600hz refresh).

Get an LCD with 120Hz refresh, and make sure you look at an LED-backlit one side-by-side with a new-gen LCD before you make that plunge. There isn't a whole lot of difference other than depth of the unit and power consumption.

If you could go to 46", I'd highly, highly recommend the Samsung LN46B630 (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN46B630-46-Inch-1080p-Touch/dp/B001U3Y8QI). It's down to $1k at Amazon. Even better if they offered a 42" version of the same model, but they don't -- chances are it would be in the $750 range.

[Sean Malone]

Back when I bought my Sammy I did some comparisons to the plasmas. I didn't care for their glare and their weight and the blue shirt kid told me they were phasing the plasma out anyway. Mine is a 120hz model that they were pushing at the time as something really important (I think the 240hz is the current buzz?), but plasma by nature run 4 or 5 times that, but I read somewhere it's not a direct correlation. Anyhoo, as soon as I got mine setup and saw how the 120hz feature made 1080p BR movies look like they were on video tape, I hit the avsforums and the consensus was to turn off the 120hz feature. LOL!!

I have a buddy who's stays on top of the tv thing and he's been buying the el cheapo's and having no problems. His current main tv is an LCD Vizio that he got dirt cheap and he loves it.

[dando]

If you like 'em heavy and reflective, get plasma. Otherwise, LCD.

The plasma will have several things that don't matter one iota to you for casual viewing (deeper blacks, ~600hz refresh).

Get an LCD with 120Hz refresh, and make sure you look at an LED-backlit one side-by-side with a new-gen LCD before you make that plunge. There isn't a whole lot of difference other than depth of the unit and power consumption.

If you could go to 46", I'd highly, highly recommend the Samsung LN46B630 (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN46B630-46-Inch-1080p-Touch/dp/B001U3Y8QI). It's down to $1k at Amazon. Even better if they offered a 42" version of the same model, but they don't -- chances are it would be in the $750 range.

That sucker is 1/2" too big for the cabinet we have. :( Ambient light and glare is a bit of a concern since it is in the family room. Supposedly this sucker (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-PN42A450-42-Inch-720p-Plasma/dp/B0015AR7AK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1269011201&sr=1-1) has some anti-glare feature. :confused: And yes, I don't see much difference b/w CFL and LED LCD other than heat output (w/o checking the electric meter that is).

-Kevin

[dando]

Back when I bought my Sammy I did some comparisons to the plasmas. I didn't care for their glare and their weight and the blue shirt kid told me they were phasing the plasma out anyway. Mine is a 120hz model that they were pushing at the time as something really important (I think the 240hz is the current buzz?), but plasma by nature run 4 or 5 times that, but I read somewhere it's not a direct correlation. Anyhoo, as soon as I got mine setup and saw how the 120hz feature made 1080p BR movies look like they were on video tape, I hit the avsforums and the consensus was to turn off the 120hz feature. LOL!!

I have a buddy who's stays on top of the tv thing and he's been buying the el cheapo's and having no problems. His current main tv is an LCD Vizio that he got dirt cheap and he loves it.

A buddy of mine sprung for a Sony Bravia 50"+ model w/240hz...one was DOA via HDMI out of the box and a second one went DOA via HDMI w/in a week. :saywhat: He ended up with a Sammy 240hz model, and it looks pretty good. Not that I could tell any diff b/w it and a 120hz model. I could tell that his Wii looked like crap via the standard connection (S-vid or composite).

Oh, and it's March Madness time....not a good time to delve into the worm hole known as AVSForum. :)

-Kevin

[oddlycalm]

I have a buddy who's stays on top of the tv thing and he's been buying the el cheapo's and having no problems. His current main tv is an LCD Vizio that he got dirt cheap and he loves it.

Good advice IMO, if I were buying a 47" or bigger today I'd get a Vizio but they don't offer LED back lighting with local dimming on sets smaller than 47" for the moment.

Given the 42" / $500-$700 target plasma may actually be the best way to go. Panasonic is the pick of the litter for plasma pic quality and their G10 can be had for less than $700. People that own them like them a lot.

It's still going to draw 375 watts and act like a space heater panel but a LCD with CCF back lighting won't draw that much less and you have possible CCF tube failures at some point and poor black levels. Low power LED's have not come to the mid market yet.

oc

[dando]

Panasonic is the pick of the litter for plasma pic quality and their G10 can be had for less than $700. People that own them like them a lot.

Where are you seeing that? I've only found them ~$700 used....$800 new is the best I can find (unless I buy through eBay from a guy in LA that wants a local pickup). :saywhat:

-Kevin

[oddlycalm]

Where are you seeing that?

Fry's had an ad for the G10 for $725 a couple weeks ago. They've got a 42" Panasonic today for $549.

Frys - Panasonic plasma
(http://www.frys.com/product/5868243?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)

oc

[TravelGal]

Where are you seeing that? I've only found them ~$700 used....$800 new is the best I can find (unless I buy through eBay from a guy in LA that wants a local pickup). :saywhat:

-Kevin

Hmmm, THAT sounds good to me. ;)

[dando]

Hmmm, THAT sounds good to me. ;)

Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/Panasonic-TC-P42G10-42-in-Plasma-HDTV-TV_W0QQitemZ110509701994QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTelevis ions?hash=item19bae43b6a) you go. :gomer:

-Kevin

[SurfaceUnits]

Here's a Toshiba 42" 1080p REGZA LCD HDTV - 42ZV650U 100,000:1 Dynamic Contrast Ratio, 4 HDMI inputs, ClearScan 240™ with Backlight Scanning for 699.00

ClearScan 240 combines 120 frames per second with advanced backlighting system for excellent fast-motion clarity
PixelPure 5G 14-bit digital video processor; Dolby Volume technology for consistent audio level
Inputs: 4 HDMI, 2 component, 2 composite, 1 S-Video, 1 PC, 1 USB, 1 SD card slot, 1 optical digital audio output
Includes removable stand; measures 41.65 x 28.50 x 12.95 inches with stand

[dando]

Thanks for the input folks. I ordered a refurb Vizio 42" last night for under $600 (replacing a $2800 8 yo 43" DLP :saywhat:). The ambient light/glare issues with the plasma made me a bit nervous (especially when I couldn't really compare the models that were suggested or I found). The Vizio is a known entity with more flexibility and $80 cheaper than the Hitachi I was looking @.

-Kevin (aka: Mr. Frugal) :)

[oddlycalm]

Mr. Frugal) :)
No sense paying more that you need to, particularly for a set that isn't your primary. Particularly when the market is changing as fast as this one is.

oc

[Rogue Leader]

I need to just chime in about the whole plasma thing here. I don't understand the HATE towards the Plasma. As someone who rus a vaguely successful side business installing these TVs in peoples homes I have seen a LOT of tvs in a lot of different situations. I myself use a Samsung Plasma at home, and should I need to replace it, unless I can pick up a 240 Hz LED backlit TV at a sick price a Plasma it will be again.

Stores all have them on very vivid settings, take a look in a real home and install you will find Plasmas offer more realistic colors and smoother more realistic motion that is only just now being nearly matched by 240 Hz TVs. The only downside is that reflective glass screen that can cause some glare. Contrary to popular belief Plasma is NOT being phased out however it is definitely lower volume. Yeah it may be bigger and heavier, but who the hell cares? Are you carrying around a 42 inch TV places?

[dando]

The only downside is that reflective glass screen that can cause some glare.

I've got no hate for plasma displays. The mass market has just shifted in that direction. :confused: In the end the glare issue was the deal breaker for me. The room this will be in has 4 ~3'x7' windows. The current DLP (which weighs as much as a plasma panel) gets washed out bad enough during the day and has a non-reflective screen. :\

-Kevin

[Sean Malone]

I need to just chime in about the whole plasma thing here. I don't understand the HATE towards the Plasma. As someone who rus a vaguely successful side business installing these TVs in peoples homes I have seen a LOT of tvs in a lot of different situations. I myself use a Samsung Plasma at home, and should I need to replace it, unless I can pick up a 240 Hz LED backlit TV at a sick price a Plasma it will be again.

Stores all have them on very vivid settings, take a look in a real home and install you will find Plasmas offer more realistic colors and smoother more realistic motion that is only just now being nearly matched by 240 Hz TVs. The only downside is that reflective glass screen that can cause some glare. Contrary to popular belief Plasma is NOT being phased out however it is definitely lower volume. Yeah it may be bigger and heavier, but who the hell cares? Are you carrying around a 42 inch TV places?


"...some glare"? Every plasma I've seen is only acceptable at extreme low light situations. I dispise looking at a TV and seeing a mirror image of the room reflected back to me. Contrast ratio is below par also, but they do well in fast motion scenes.
Just 3 years ago, plasma's were the av geek TV of choice until they started cutting LCD over 50" with higher contrast, higher Hz and less expensive with an advertised longer life span. Marketing? Perhaps.
I've seen many showroom TV's set to 'vivid', not just plasma, but anymore I'm just seeing them at factory default as the 'vivid' trick fairly well known. Being kept on 24 hours a day ain't helpin' things IMO.

[oddlycalm]

Plasmas offer more realistic colors and smoother more realistic motion that is only just now being nearly matched by 240 Hz TVs. The only downside is that reflective glass screen that can cause some glare.
Agreed, to date the best flat panel display I've seen was a plasma. Reflective glass isn't restricted to plasma either, my Samsung LED/LCD set has that same reflective glass. Doesn't matter in my application.

My reason for going to LED when we downsized to a new house was heat dissipation in the smaller room and I waited many months for the price to come down. The blacks are very good and the motion is fine, but overall I would never say the image is as good as the Pioneer Kuro plasma I saw next to it. Both were ISF calibrated. At my house I don't have a Kuro hanging next to it so it looks pretty great. :gomer:

From what I've heard the big push on LCD from mfg's is all about shipping cost. More of them fit in a container and they weigh less.

oc

[nrc]

Plasma owners: how do you deal with the constant fear of burn-in? For most cases I think TiVo will drop back to live TV from any of it's menus, but you can leave a program paused indefinitely.

[grungex]

DirecTV goes into screen saver mode pretty quickly, as does my DVD player, so no real concerns.

[Rogue Leader]

Plasma owners: how do you deal with the constant fear of burn-in? For most cases I think TiVo will drop back to live TV from any of it's menus, but you can leave a program paused indefinitely.

I've had my Plasma TV for 4 years and I don't fear it, a few years ago they have basically corrected the problem. That said I won't like leave something paused for an hour, but I play video games (sometimes for a really long time) on no special settings or anything and while you will get occasional artifacts, they flush out after about 5 minutes of normal TV also I will watch a 2 hour movie in letterbox and while you see a faint line as well, it also fades after a couple minutes. My Cable DVR drops out of the menu after a few minutes as well.

[rosawendel]

I have a three year old LCD that has some burn-in/ghosting as a result of the stupid Time-Warner cable guide interface. I'm told that on LCD's, the ghosting can be re-set/removed (with the purchase of a dvd), but i haven't heard anything independant to support it.

[Andrew Longman]

I have several CRT sets in the house and I don't think I paid for any of them. The oldest came with my wife "dowery" and we've been married going on 18 years. The others, including a very nice 40 sumpin inch I got just a few months ago when a friend bought a huge flat screen, are still going strong.

A small LCD that my wife picked up for the kitchen three years ago is now dead.

Of course you can't by a CRT anymore but the technology is bullet proof. I still can't feel justified buying LCD, etc. set at big prices when I they don't last and there are plenty of free CRT for the taking.

Just my cheap *** 2c and if you don't like it I'll take back the 2c thank you. :gomer:

[Methanolandbrats]

I have several CRT sets in the house and I don't think I paid for any of them. The oldest came with my wife "dowery" and we've been married going on 18 years. The others, including a very nice 40 sumpin inch I got just a few months ago when a friend bought a huge flat screen, are still going strong.

A small LCD that my wife picked up for the kitchen three years ago is now dead.

Of course you can't by a CRT anymore but the technology is bullet proof. I still can't feel justified buying LCD, etc. set at big prices when I they don't last and there are plenty of free CRT for the taking.

Just my cheap *** 2c and if you don't like it I'll take back the 2c thank you. :gomer:I've got three Sony 27 Bravia CRT tvs. When they die it will be time to upgrade. Can't stand the idea of giving Charter more money anyway. :yuck:

[Rogue Leader]

I have a three year old LCD that has some burn-in/ghosting as a result of the stupid Time-Warner cable guide interface. I'm told that on LCD's, the ghosting can be re-set/removed (with the purchase of a dvd), but i haven't heard anything independant to support it.

A lot of TVs have it built into the menu there are burn in clearing patterns. Its pretty rare for that to happen on an LCD is your TV on with the guide on 24/7?

[SurfaceUnits]

is this a good TV?

Panasonic Viera 42" Widescreen Plasma 1080p HDTV - TH42PZ80U

$579.00 Recert

[Rogue Leader]

is this a good TV?

Panasonic Viera 42" Widescreen Plasma 1080p HDTV - TH42PZ80U

$579.00 Recert

1080p for $579 thats a great deal!

[SurfaceUnits]

Samsung PN58B650 - 58" Widescreen 1080p Plasma HDTV - 600Hz - 3,000,000:1 Dynamic Contrast Ratio - .001 ms Response Time
$1,939.99
- $240.00
$1,699.99

checkout that irl versus nielsen rating for response time

[Gnam]

It's not quite transparent aluminum, but still pretty cool. :cool:


The 159-year-old glass pioneer [Corning] is ramping up production of what it calls Gorilla glass, expecting it to be the hot new face of touch-screen tablets and high-end TVs

Gorilla is two to three times stronger than chemically strengthened versions of ordinary soda-lime glass, even when just half as thick, company scientists say. Its strength also means Gorilla can be thinner than a dime, saving on weight and shipping costs.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/08/01/financial/f111440D79.DTL

[Pilgrims Drop]

It's not quite transparent aluminum, but still pretty cool. :cool:


This has been used by mobile phone manufacturers for quite some time now... the 2008 reference is inaccurate by 2 years in regards to the company I work for... only problem is that when it does break... it shatters

[oddlycalm]

It's not quite transparent aluminum, but still pretty cool. :cool:
Way cool. Corning is a great example of what can happen when a company hasn't suffered through mergers and acquisitions or been run into the ground by a bright young MBA with no real world skills. They understand there is intrinsic value in their innovations even if they can't put a number on it for a decade or three. :thumbup:

oc

[TravelGal]

Any updated thoughts on LED/LCD, ETC? When turning off the TV tonight, I think it went off into the great graveyard. [This must be "our year" for major purchases.] I rather thought a new TV was in our future so it appears the future is now.

Reviewing the thread, WickerBill's suggestion is now Samsung LN46C630 46 Inch 1080 p 120Hz LCD HDTV, list price $1099.99 and Dando's suggestion with anti-glare is now Samsung PN43D450 43 inch 720 p 600 Hz Plasma HDTV, list price 599.99.

A year later---plasma vs LCD? Anti-glare? Vizio still the best deal for functional TV-only watching (no games but a lot of sports and other shows)?

[SteveH]

I think either are exceptional. Plasma has progressed so much from what it was just a few years ago. LED/LCD has it's distinct advantages. But both are very good choices. I looked at both last fall before pulling the trigger on a 60 inch Sharp LED/LCD primarily because it was on sale. It just didn't make sense to pay several hundred more for a similar Samsung. Have not regretted the purchase at all.

[Don Quixote]

Any updated thoughts on LED/LCD, ETC? When turning off the TV tonight, I think it went off into the great graveyard. [This must be "our year" for major purchases.] I rather thought a new TV was in our future so it appears the future is now.

Reviewing the thread, WickerBill's suggestion is now Samsung LN46C630 46 Inch 1080 p 120Hz LCD HDTV, list price $1099.99 and Dando's suggestion with anti-glare is now Samsung PN43D450 43 inch 720 p 600 Hz Plasma HDTV, list price 599.99.

A year later---plasma vs LCD? Anti-glare? Vizio still the best deal for functional TV-only watching (no games but a lot of sports and other shows)?We have a Sony Bravia and a Visio and have no complaints. Picked up both at Costco.

[KLang]

Any updated thoughts on LED/LCD, ETC? When turning off the TV tonight, I think it went off into the great graveyard. [This must be "our year" for major purchases.] I rather thought a new TV was in our future so it appears the future is now.

Reviewing the thread, WickerBill's suggestion is now Samsung LN46C630 46 Inch 1080 p 120Hz LCD HDTV, list price $1099.99 and Dando's suggestion with anti-glare is now Samsung PN43D450 43 inch 720 p 600 Hz Plasma HDTV, list price 599.99.

A year later---plasma vs LCD? Anti-glare? Vizio still the best deal for functional TV-only watching (no games but a lot of sports and other shows)?

What is the room like where you watch TV? If there are a lot of windows and you like to watch during the day, LCD is the likely the better choice. LED is a light source for LCD and may give better contrast.

Plasma is still probably the best picture if you can live with the reflections and extra power consumption.

[WickerBill]

Plasma is still probably the best picture if you can live with the reflections and extra power consumption.

...and weight. Those things are super heavy compared to LCDs. If you're going to mount it on a wall or swing arm...

[KLang]

...and weight. Those things are super heavy compared to LCDs. If you're going to mount it on a wall or swing arm...

That too.

FWIW I still get a couple of home theater type magazines monthly. The Vizio models always get a decent or recommended rating. Vizio is probably the best bang for the buck if $ is one of the primary considerations.

[Insomniac]

Don't forget 3D. May want to consider it if this is the only TV purchase you anticipate for a long time.

[Cam]

Don't forget 3D. May want to consider it if this is the only TV purchase you anticipate for a long time.

Unless they start giving away free multifocal lens 3D glasses I'll probably pass on 3D. Don't see that viewing something thru 2 sets of lenses is really going to give the intended result. :saywhat:

[devilmaster]

Don't see that viewing something thru 2 sets of lenses is really going to give the intended result. :saywhat:

Oh I don't know... There's always something to be said for beer goggles... Well, till the next morning, anyways.

[dando]

That too.

FWIW I still get a couple of home theater type magazines monthly. The Vizio models always get a decent or recommended rating. Vizio is probably the best bang for the buck if $ is one of the primary considerations.

Yup. My Viz has been awesome over the past year, and none of the nasty reflection on a plasma. My only complaint is how the HDMI cables attach to the set. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[TravelGal]

FWIW I still get a couple of home theater type magazines monthly. The Vizio models always get a decent or recommended rating. Vizio is probably the best bang for the buck if $ is one of the primary considerations.

Good to know. Also the comment from Don Q about Costco. I can see that some site surfing is going to take up a large part of today.


Don't forget 3D. May want to consider it if this is the only TV purchase you anticipate for a long time.

Right on, Insomniac. The TV that's being replaced is 8 years old and we consider that an INFANT. But, as with Cam, I'm not a big 3D fan so that consideration will be lower on the list. Can hardly see the 2D.


Yup. My Viz has been awesome over the past year, and none of the nasty reflection on a plasma. My only complaint is how the HDMI cables attach to the set. :saywhat:

-Kevin

As KLang commented, the room is important and this TV will be right next to French doors. We watch sports during the day on the weekend and, of course, it's light here fairly late into the evenings in the summer. Glare is a concern.

Also a concern is Dando's complaint about the HDMI cables. Wazzup wit dat? We have cables on our cables with the most intricate arrangements of boxes/VCR's/DVD, etc. you could possibly imagine.

[dando]

Also a concern is Dando's complaint about the HDMI cables. Wazzup wit dat? We have cables on our cables with the most intricate arrangements of boxes/VCR's/DVD, etc. you could possibly imagine.

We have four large windows in the family room, and ambient light is not an issue with our Viz. My issue with the cable connection is that they under the back of the set vertically rather than horizontally. It's just a bit of a PITA to get them connected, but once they are connected, you got 'er done. Got ours through Tiger Direct for ~$500 for a 42" LCD.

-Kevin

[SteveH]

Try monoprice.com for hdmi and all your other cable needs :thumbup:

[KLang]

My issue with the cable connection is that they under the back of the set vertically rather than horizontally.

-Kevin

That must be to allow mounting on a wall?

[Insomniac]

Unless they start giving away free multifocal lens 3D glasses I'll probably pass on 3D. Don't see that viewing something thru 2 sets of lenses is really going to give the intended result. :saywhat:

I don't have a 3D set yet, but between watching 3D movies in the theater and taking a look at Best Buy I didn't have any issues wearing 3D glasses on top of my regular glasses.

There isn't a whole lot of 3D content, but I just figured that if that's your only TV purchase for a long time, something to keep in mind for if you ever wanted the feature. It's easy enough not to use, not so much to add on later.

[Insomniac]

That must be to allow mounting on a wall?

I'd agree if the set is really thin, otherwise the connections could've been recessed.

[Insomniac]

As KLang commented, the room is important and this TV will be right next to French doors. We watch sports during the day on the weekend and, of course, it's light here fairly late into the evenings in the summer. Glare is a concern.

From my experience glare is of most disturbing when the windows/sun entry points are opposite the TV or at least opposite your viewing angle from the TV. That will be the worst. The rest is just how much sun lights up the room and if you can see those surfaces reflecting on the glass.

What kind of TV do you have now? At least for me, I went from a CRT to Plasma and the glare was no worse. My main complaint is that the Samsung treats the configurable settings differently so it's hard to have a good daylight and nighttime setting.

[TravelGal]

From my experience glare is of most disturbing when the windows/sun entry points are opposite the TV or at least opposite your viewing angle from the TV. That will be the worst. The rest is just how much sun lights up the room and if you can see those surfaces reflecting on the glass.

What kind of TV do you have now? At least for me, I went from a CRT to Plasma and the glare was no worse. My main complaint is that the Samsung treats the configurable settings differently so it's hard to have a good daylight and nighttime setting.

The glare (door) is at about a 75 degree angle from the viewing surface of the screen. We definitely see surfaces reflected in the TV when it's very light out.

Bought this puppy in 2003 as a closeout. Phillips HDTV 1080i/480p. I'm *assuming* it must be plasma because I can't find it anywhere in the instruction booklet. I do remember that the LCD stuff (in our price range) at that time was horrible. We've never had and still don't have the slightest complaint with the picture. Extremely sharp. The sound not so much but bearable. It's just that it went black last night. TravelGuy got it cranked up this morning but I know it's just a matter of time. I'm looking to cash in on Memorial Day sales. I also see that ABT is having a 75th anniv sale.

The listings for plasma seem few and far between. Mostly Panasonic. The best consistent reviews I've found are for Vizio 42” Model Number: XVT3D424SV 3D, 1080p 480 Hz SPS. LED Edge Lit LCD HDTV. $999 at Costco. More than we wanted to pay but seems to do just about everything but whistle Dixie.

[dando]

I'd agree if the set is really thin, otherwise the connections could've been recessed.

Correct. Yes, the model we have allows for wall mounting, but it's not thin enough to require connectors like this. It's not a deal killer, but it's difficult to make the cable connection w/o seeing how the connectors are configured.

-Kevin

[nrc]

I hope our rear projection set lasts a long time. Direct view LCD is still lacking in my eyes and I fear that our TV room would not be friendly for a plasma.

[KLang]

My SXRD rear projector is still hanging in there. Finally had to replace the lamp for the first time a few months ago. Was quite a shock to see how much the lamp had dimmed over the years.

Whenever it dies the replacement will have to be LCD, way to many windows in our family room for plasma.

[TravelGal]

I hope our rear projection set lasts a long time. Direct view LCD is still lacking in my eyes and I fear that our TV room would not be friendly for a plasma.

Sigh. This is my worry. In about 10 mins I'll be trying ole Bessie again. Maybe I can hold out to the Labor Day sales, or Black Friday, or?

Anyone have any other suggestions for a little less moola than the one I posted?

[G.]

Sigh. This is my worry. In about 10 mins I'll be trying ole Bessie again. Maybe I can hold out to the Labor Day sales, or Black Friday, or?

Anyone have any other suggestions for a little less moola than the one I posted?

The one you posted appears to be a fairly high-end Vizio.

Wi-fi and 3D?? Personally, I would consider wi-fi, but not 3D for us.

You can get a 42" for a lot less than 6 or 7 flights to an earl race if you don't need 3d and wi-fi. ($150.00 for jet fuel/flight, for those that are unaware :) )

Let's spec this bish out.

Is 42" what you want/need? Can you go larger or smaller?

This is silly, but it DOES limit your choices, how many HDMI, computer, component, optical, etc., inputs and outputs do you need? Now and future.

We'll assume LCD with LED lighting, or do you want regular old LCD? (either should serve your viewing preferences, but LED lighting might use less power - not sure)

Want wi-fi?

[Insomniac]

The listings for plasma seem few and far between. Mostly Panasonic. The best consistent reviews I've found are for Vizio 42” Model Number: XVT3D424SV 3D, 1080p 480 Hz SPS. LED Edge Lit LCD HDTV. $999 at Costco. More than we wanted to pay but seems to do just about everything but whistle Dixie.

They have done a "good" job of creating a wide price range for TVs. Newegg has a LG 42" 1080p 60Hz LCD HDTV 42LK450 for $530 for Memorial Day. No 3D or LED lighting.

[KLang]

Sigh. This is my worry. In about 10 mins I'll be trying ole Bessie again. Maybe I can hold out to the Labor Day sales, or Black Friday, or?

Anyone have any other suggestions for a little less moola than the one I posted?

Costco's website shows 3 other Vizio 42" models between $689 and $799 with slightly different features. I suggest a trip to Costco to see what your eyes tell you.

Edit: If you have room there are also some 47" models in the same price range.

[Indy]

I paid $999 for a Mitsubishi LED 55" on Black Friday. If you can wait, you can hold out for the best deals.

[TravelGal]

The one you posted appears to be a fairly high-end Vizio.

Wi-fi and 3D?? Personally, I would consider wi-fi, but not 3D for us.

You can get a 42" for a lot less than 6 or 7 flights to an earl race if you don't need 3d and wi-fi. ($150.00 for jet fuel/flight, for those that are unaware :) )

Let's spec this bish out.

Is 42" what you want/need? Can you go larger or smaller?

This is silly, but it DOES limit your choices, how many HDMI, computer, component, optical, etc., inputs and outputs do you need? Now and future.

We'll assume LCD with LED lighting, or do you want regular old LCD? (either should serve your viewing preferences, but LED lighting might use less power - not sure)

Want wi-fi?

To recap so far. I forgot to answer a question posed by, I believe, WB. This unit will be on a stand, not wall mounted. In a fit of creativity several years ago, I had an archway cut in what would be the only usable wall for mounting a TV or even the arm of a TV. It's a fairly small corner between the brick fireplace and the french doors so 42" or at most 47" is what we want. Nothing larger will fit. Smaller is not that much of an improvement over what we have now and as the eyes get older, we need the larger images.

The inputs at the moment are from ancient VCR's (3). You know, those old, round audio and video jacks? Also the TW cable box, which does not support an HDMI cable says TravelGuy although pulling it out is a problem so :confused: Why do we do this? Because we often record 3 or 4 things at one time and watch another and we've never found a better way to capture it all. This is all done from one cable input (with one splitter) and works with one remote the way TravelGuy has it set up. You can just imagine what the wiring looks like in the cabinet. Another question is can we switch to all DVD recorders and forget about those damnable ancient, unavailable VHS tapes????????????

Moving on... WiFi would be terrific for Hulu and various other stuff so I don't have to schlep a laptop into the living room AND connect it into one of those ports you're asking about. 3D, don't care. No games. No wii. I've tried to avoid admitting this but I'm even quite clear yet on LCD vs. LED :o The difference in power consumption is not a deal breaker but heat generation might be. Nothing like a cosying up to a nice warm TV when it's 110 degrees outside and the A/C is overmatched already.

Yes, we're antediluvian but only because I could never figure this stuff out and I never had anyone to ask before. Be glad to PM with you G. or anyone else to keep all this ignorance off the boards. Also, I have an 800 number. LOL.

I looked at the Costco website and saw quite a few Vizio in the $600-$800 range but they had disasterous reviews. That's why I moved on up to the luxury spread. In everything in life, there is a level below which you don't want to go or you waste your money. OTOH, $999 seemed to do more than we need for the next decade or so.

The TV seems to be okay for the time being. It had gone black the other night and we couldn't turn it off OR on with the remote OR its own on/off switch. That's why I thought it was cooked. Unplugging it "fixed" it. Therefore, I'm taking KLang's immediate advice and traipsing to Costco and few other local joints to see what seems acceptable to my eyes. Believe it or not, those eyes are very discerning. As in, it drives me nuts when they switch cameras at a sporting event from one that is in perfect focus to one that isn't.

Thanks to everyone that is still reading.

[dando]

Here's what I recommend:

No 3D, @ least 120Hz refresh, LED (temp and energy efficiency), whatever size you can fit. Plasma is pretty much going bye-bye, which is why you only see Pannys out there...maybe some Pioneers as well.

-Kevin

[Gnam]

The inputs at the moment are from [3] ancient VCR's ... [b]ecause we often record 3 or 4 things at one time and watch another and we've never found a better way to capture it all. This is all done from one cable input (with one splitter) and works with one remote the way TravelGuy has it set up. You can just imagine what the wiring looks like in the cabinet. Another question is can we switch to all DVD recorders and forget about those damnable ancient, unavailable VHS tapes????????????
:laugh:

I am laughing WITH you...with I say. :D

Is a DVR from the cable company an option? Some can record 4 shows at once.

[nrc]

Here's what I recommend:

No 3D, @ least 120Hz refresh, LED (temp and energy efficiency), whatever size you can fit. Plasma is pretty much going bye-bye, which is why you only see Pannys out there...maybe some Pioneers as well.

-Kevin

Pioneer stopped making TVs last year. Damn shame.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20034816-1.html

[NismoZ]

Just went through this "upgrade" myself. To my OWN surprise I opted for a 50" LG plasma because the picture was awesome, 600Hz, the glare was a non-issue (basement rec room), I could lift and install it easily, it was energy-star efficient and way cool to the touch, cheaper than a Panasonic (at Sears) and the biggie...anywhere from 400-600 $$ cheaper than LCD! Full LED or 3D not on my radar. So, I got a plasma. Happy so far. Not worried about burn-in, I don't game, and that problem is pretty much solved anyway. The longevity thing is of little concern also as I figured as much as I watch the thing it ought to last well into the decade after I'm gone anyway! :D

[Insomniac]

I've tried to avoid admitting this but I'm even quite clear yet on LCD vs. LED :o

Quick explanation. Both are LCDs. LED is the backlighting (and that breaks down further, white or RGB) method. It generally provides a more even backlight, better contrast and colors than using fluorescent lighting in traditional LCDs.

[Insomniac]

Pioneer stopped making TVs last year. Damn shame.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20034816-1.html

Fortunately Panasonic got the Kuro tech so that wasn't lost.

[TravelGal]

:laugh:

I am laughing WITH you...with I say. :D

Is a DVR from the cable company an option? Some can record 4 shows at once.

Good. At least there is some levity in all this. :\

Currently, TW in our area offers the "3" option. Record 2 and watch a third. Not sufficient for our overall needs. Especially when shows overlap that last minute or two as they are starting to. We also commonly record an entire sporting event, start watching it an hour or two into it, and watch to the end, thereby coming out just about "even" without having to sit through commercials. This ties up the box for 6 hours or so at once because you have to allow for rain delays, :saywhat: etc.

NRC's article looks like it will lead me to some good stuff. I clicked on "continue testing" to see what's the most current.

And thanks, Dando, for simple words of advice. I'm still wavering on the plasma but I'm getting enough hard info to make an informed decision on where the eyes (high end) and the pocketbook (low end) should meet.

[TravelGal]

Quick explanation. Both are LCDs. LED is the backlighting (and that breaks down further, white or RGB) method. It generally provides a more even backlight, better contrast and colors than using fluorescent lighting in traditional LCDs.

Thanks. I see now why I didn't get it before, thinking they were mutually exclusive. But what's this about edge lighting or overall or what???

[cameraman]

Currently, TW in our area offers the "3" option. Record 2 and watch a third.

With DishNetwork you can get two or more DVRs with the 3 option. You could hook both up to the same TV. That way you could record 4 while watching two using PIP:eek:

and I repeat :eek::eek:

[KLang]

With DishNetwork you can get two or more DVRs with the 3 option. You could hook both up to the same TV. That way you could record 4 while watching two using PIP:eek:

and I repeat :eek::eek:

It's a little better then that. :) If the Dish DVR has an OTA tuner you can record from that tuner at the same time as well. In dual mode you can watch two recordings while all this recording is going on. The 722K has an optional dual OTA card. Four recordings and two playbacks possible at the same time.

We have four DVR's around the house. I usually make sure that shows I care about are recorded on two different machines. Hard drive failures suck.

[Insomniac]

Thanks. I see now why I didn't get it before, thinking they were mutually exclusive. But what's this about edge lighting or overall or what???

My guess would be edge means the backlighting is located along the edges of the screen and overall may have the backlighting spread out all over the panel to create a more even look.

[nrc]

Currently, TW in our area offers the "3" option. Record 2 and watch a third. Not sufficient for our overall needs. Especially when shows overlap that last minute or two as they are starting to. We also commonly record an entire sporting event, start watching it an hour or two into it, and watch to the end, thereby coming out just about "even" without having to sit through commercials. This ties up the box for 6 hours or so at once because you have to allow for rain delays, :saywhat: etc.

I wish I could recommend a TiVo option. It's still the best DVR experience going. Unfortunately, even though they've slashed the cost of the boxes considerably, they've jacked up service to make up the difference. So two TiVos (to provide four tuners) would come in at $1100 with lifetime service. Not a bad deal in the long term, but too much for most folks to swallow.

Then there's the problem of TW cable and their poor support for cable card and tuning adapters. :shakehead

[WickerBill]

I'd personally suggest a provider that allows for a whole-home DVR setup.

For instance, with DirecTV (and others I'm sure), my three DVRs all communicate over my house's coax, so the content on all of the DVRs shows up in one playlist, regardless of which TV I'm watching. That means I have the ability to record six shows at once and watch one recorded show per TV at the same time. And there just ain't that much good content at once on television, at least for me!

And the cabling would be so incredibly simple compared to what you have today. One coax in, one HDMI out from each DVR.

[TravelGal]

I wish I could recommend a TiVo option. It's still the best DVR experience going. Unfortunately, even though they've slashed the cost of the boxes considerably, they've jacked up service to make up the difference. So two TiVos (to provide four tuners) would come in at $1100 with lifetime service. Not a bad deal in the long term, but too much for most folks to swallow.

Then there's the problem of TW cable and their poor support for cable card and tuning adapters. :shakehead


I'd personally suggest a provider that allows for a whole-home DVR setup.

For instance, with DirecTV (and others I'm sure), my three DVRs all communicate over my house's coax, so the content on all of the DVRs shows up in one playlist, regardless of which TV I'm watching. That means I have the ability to record six shows at once and watch one recorded show per TV at the same time. And there just ain't that much good content at once on television, at least for me!

And the cabling would be so incredibly simple compared to what you have today. One coax in, one HDMI out from each DVR.

Errrrrrrrr, cable card and tuning adapters? :shakehead

One key fact not so far in evidence is that all this stuff goes into one TV. We do have an ancillary one but it is rarely used. It's the recording options that are complicated, not the playback ones. All we care is that all the DVR's can be seen on the main TV. Seems logical that they can.

I've priced TW vs Dish about every 18 months. TW always comes out so much cheaper for what we use (check the other thread about ESPN Classic, which we've always had) and we've never had any issues with their customer service. Perhaps because our questions are at lower level than the ones you guys might ask? They are nice on the phone, they show immediately when summoned, they are cheaper for what we watch, and their Roadrunner is fastest internet in the area. Doesn't mean I won't check it again as part of this TV transition, however.

Looks like we're headed to Costco and Paul, the King of Big Screen (oc'ers in the LA area will know that one) as part of our Memorial Day merriment.

[Insomniac]

Errrrrrrrr, cable card and tuning adapters? :shakehead

One key fact not so far in evidence is that all this stuff goes into one TV. We do have an ancillary one but it is rarely used. It's the recording options that are complicated, not the playback ones. All we care is that all the DVR's can be seen on the main TV. Seems logical that they can.

I've priced TW vs Dish about every 18 months. TW always comes out so much cheaper for what we use (check the other thread about ESPN Classic, which we've always had) and we've never had any issues with their customer service. Perhaps because our questions are at lower level than the ones you guys might ask? They are nice on the phone, they show immediately when summoned, they are cheaper for what we watch, and their Roadrunner is fastest internet in the area. Doesn't mean I won't check it again as part of this TV transition, however.

Looks like we're headed to Costco and Paul, the King of Big Screen (oc'ers in the LA area will know that one) as part of our Memorial Day merriment.

TW may not have faetures for networking the DVRs in the "3" plan you described, but if you had 2 of them I see no barrier to record 4 and hook both up to your TV. You would have to switch inputs to choose between the 2, but that should be it (assuming you can avoid a remote control collision).

[dando]

TW may not have faetures for networking the DVRs in the "3" plan you described, but if you had 2 of them I see no barrier to record 4 and hook both up to your TV. You would have to switch inputs to choose between the 2, but that should be it (assuming you can avoid a remote control collision).

TWC is adding the 'whole house' features, but it may take time to get out to the left coast. They have added features to the franchise in Hilton Head (formerly Adelphia) before they did here, which was one of their original franchises. :confused: In any case, they appear to release upgrades to smaller markets to work out the bugs before they release to larger markets. SoCal would definitely fit that model. They are just now launching here.

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

TWC is adding the 'whole house' features, but it may take time to get out to the left coast. They have added features to the franchise in Hilton Head (formerly Adelphia) before they did here, which was one of their original franchises. :confused: In any case, they appear to release upgrades to smaller markets to work out the bugs before they release to larger markets. SoCal would definitely fit that model. They are just now launching here.

-Kevin

I just checked if my local cable provider had it yet. Nope, but DVRs are $17.25/mo each. :eek: I'm spoiled by DirecTV.

[TravelGal]

I'd personally suggest a provider that allows for a whole-home DVR setup.

For instance, with DirecTV (and others I'm sure), my three DVRs all communicate over my house's coax, so the content on all of the DVRs shows up in one playlist, regardless of which TV I'm watching. That means I have the ability to record six shows at once and watch one recorded show per TV at the same time. And there just ain't that much good content at once on television, at least for me!

And the cabling would be so incredibly simple compared to what you have today. One coax in, one HDMI out from each DVR.

Update: Pretty much decided on a whole home but not sure which provider.
As for the TV, we've been seduced by the LG 42LV5500. No 3D but internet ready, full backlit LED, 120MHz, 1080p, extremely crisp picture, sound better than most (important to yours truly). Also, it swivels on its base, which is important to TravelGuy because his mega-chair is off to the side a bit. When he's watching his tennis, etc., he'll be able to see it straight on with the swivel. Helps to mitigate the poorer (than plasma) side view that LCD is supposed to have.

Looks terrific in the store. "Free delivery" "Free set up" "Free bluetooth player (which we electronic geniuses do not yet have)" yadda yadda. Five year warranty extra but worth it as it includes in home service. All this can be ours with one simple withdrawal from the retirement account. :\