View Full Version : A Grand Prix in the desert
opinionated ow
03-12-10, 08:18 AM
So if a Bahraini Grand Prix is held in a desert in the middle of nowhere with nobody to watch does a Formula 1 season commence?
Seems that as expected Lotus, HRT and Virgin are a good 7 seconds (at least) off the pace and surprisingly Vitaly Petrov is on it.
oddlycalm
03-12-10, 03:08 PM
Yup, already talk from the Supreme Leader of bringing back the 107% rule. The better news (so far) is that Williams Cosworth appears to be only a second off the pace.
oc
Rogue Leader
03-12-10, 07:58 PM
Yup, already talk from the Supreme Leader of bringing back the 107% rule. The better news (so far) is that Williams Cosworth appears to be only a second off the pace.
oc
Safety wise thats not such a bad idea..... Its sad to see though there are some really good drivers stuck back there, its like the 80's all over again.
Do the Group B drivers get their own podium and championship like at Le Mans? ;)
I always thought the 107% rule was a joke. It just produced fake racing, in a sense. Why shouldn't a Senna or a Prost be able to negotiate backmarkers?
Winston Wolfe
03-14-10, 12:49 AM
the 107% would wreak havoc on the twIRL.... milkers and the other assorted not ready for prime time team players would be benched after 7 laps on some tracks.... thanks again, ToKnee :tony:
F1 still needs to put twenty cars on a grid to meet requirements so pre-qualifying (pre 1996 introduction of the 107% rule) might be better. Top two cars of the bottom three teams of ill repute get to be the moving chicanes of the race.
A Senna or a Prost would have faced a grid of up to 39 cars at the height of pre-qualifying.
grungex
03-14-10, 01:42 AM
Moving chicanes are a good thing. Went karting tonight, and the only way to pass a driver of comparable skill was to use a slower one as a pick...
Wellll...Ferrari 1-2=good for F-1. Vettel/Red Bull statement=good for F-1. Four world champs in the same race=good for F-1. Top 8 pre-season favorites IN the top 8=good for F-1. Michael Schumacher return in 6th=good for F-1. Massa return in 2nd=good for F-1. (and EVERYbody) Not a whole lot of wing-tip-to-wingtip stuff but an "interesting" season of qualifying, tire, fuel and strategic decisions is in the offing. One down 18 to go! (PS-my pre-season choice is looking pretty sweet right now...LOSERS!:p)...PPS-will we ever get to see the "race" with all those ex-champs? I'd love to see a documentary on that!:thumbup:
ilferrari
03-14-10, 02:10 PM
The venue is held in a desert, both physically and spiritually. No fans, no atmosphere, no history, no character, no aesthetic value, no good racing. Thanks Bernie.
F1 is painfully boring because of what those clowns at the FIA have done to it. Cars cannot run within a second of each other without losing aerodynamic grip. The 2009 aero changes made things much worse.
Methanolandbrats
03-14-10, 02:27 PM
That race sucked. Ugly cars with down on power lumps driving around on a horrible track in the middle of nowhere "competing" with grid filler teams that will never get up to speed. And the crap teams have replaced factory teams that were chased away my Max and his stupid rules. Outstanding job fellas. I sure hope things get better from here on. Too bad about that POS Red Bull letting Vettel down again. He would have been WDC last year if it had'nt broken so much.
Not saying any of those things aren't true, just saying what might be positives to carry through the season. What is good for F-1 may not be good for the "true" fans but what you see is what we have. I'm not going to tune out in any case.
Methanolandbrats
03-14-10, 08:00 PM
Not saying any of those things aren't true, just saying what might be positives to carry through the season. What is good for F-1 may not be good for the "true" fans but what you see is what we have. I'm not going to tune out in any case.
Oh hell no, can't tune out, there is nothing else left and it's still good racing. But if Bernie adds a couple more tracks like Singapore and Bahrain I'll probably lose interest.
Hard Driver
03-14-10, 08:43 PM
Track isn't spa, but the new additions were a improvement.
I found the race was pretty good. Maybe I am just enjoying racing season starting, but it was good to see F1 again. No, it wasn't wheel to wheel, but in reality, that is part of F1.
Also wondering why the Red Bull smokescreen wasn't dealt with in a similar way to something falling off a car. A safety issue, right? Could/should a penalty have been assessed? I mean Webber DID cause a wreck didn't he? What if a wing element or a SPRING had come off and caused the exact same result? If two Ferraris had crashed because of it, would it have been treated differently?;)
oddlycalm
03-14-10, 09:47 PM
Now we know who's fast and who's not (for now). Vettel in the Red Bull has the most speed but may not have the reliability (again). The Ferrari is strong and both are fast, though Alonso is the more talented driver in a race. Next is Hamilton in the McLaren followed by Rosberg in the Benz. After that are Schumacher and Button.
A lot of people assumed Schumacher would be the #1 at Benz, and he may yet be, but not today and not by a little. Button looked like he did at the end of last season just motoring around off the pace.
Whether Renault, Williams and Sauber are able to pull their acts together remains to be seen. Force India is likely to beat all of them on their better days.
oc
How slow did the cars look on the first lap? It looked like they were under yellow with all that weight. Maybe everyone took it easy, because they never ran with so much weight before, but we sure didn't have all the usual first lap jockeying for position.
Hotel I was in didn't have Speed........grrrrr
opinionated ow
03-14-10, 10:18 PM
Track isn't spa, but the new additions were a improvement.
I found the race was pretty good. Maybe I am just enjoying racing season starting, but it was good to see F1 again. No, it wasn't wheel to wheel, but in reality, that is part of F1.
Such a boring circuit, they ripped out the only interesting bit (the fast downhill esses) to insert the mickey mouse bit. Average lap speed for the fastest was only 191.706km/h (119.120mph) and the race only 186.272 km/h (115.744mph). The average race speed in 2009 was 201.458 km/h (125.180 mph). It's quite a marked difference and infinitely more boring!
indyfan31
03-15-10, 10:06 AM
That race sucked. Ugly cars with down on power lumps driving around on a horrible track in the middle of nowhere "competing" with grid filler teams that will never get up to speed.
Oh hell no, can't tune out, there is nothing else left and it's still good racing.
:saywhat: :rolleyes:
WickerBill
03-15-10, 10:13 AM
Man those shark fins are ugly.
Methanolandbrats
03-15-10, 11:05 AM
:saywhat: :rolleyes: Compared to what's left of everything else..WRC, NASCAR, CART, ALMS..... Key word "good".
Autosport calls the IRL race a "spectacular" and "thrilling" season opener and criticizes Bahrain as boring for lack of action and hints F-1 needs to fix the show. So, should we get ready for more gimmicks? What's left? Heat races, push to pass and a turn-1 sprinkler system? Don't laugh, remember BE's "shortcut" idea?:rofl:?
Man those shark fins are ugly.
Somehow they seem more egregious than last year. :yuck:
oddlycalm
03-15-10, 03:31 PM
Welcome to the 2010 FIA tyre economy run...:gomer: Trying to keep the tires under fuel heavy cars doesn't lend itself to hard racing. The fact is that nobody is going to be very racy when they know that all it takes to ruin their race is flat spotting a tire while heavy on fuel in a one stop race. A two stop mandatory rule might help. A little.
Refueling went away because of cost, but the price of saving that money is glaringly obvious in the racing, and that makes it consistent with the other Bernie and Max brain farts. :shakehead :thumdown:
oc
Steve Matchette summed up the race strategy pretty well:
Drive around burning fuel until your last lap is slower than your previous lap. Pit for tires. Drive to the end of the race.
A second stop for fresh tires might encourage the teams to race more, but if Massa was conserving fuel for 30 laps, maybe not.
mandatory pit windows WOOT
Steve99
03-15-10, 06:53 PM
Autosport calls the IRL race a "spectacular" and "thrilling" season opener and criticizes Bahrain as boring for lack of action and hints F-1 needs to fix the show. So, should we get ready for more gimmicks? What's left? Heat races, push to pass and a turn-1 sprinkler system? Don't laugh, remember BE's "shortcut" idea?:rofl:?
They could get Sato back, start him deep in the field, and take away his brake pedal. A thrilling and spectacular first lap ensues.
mandatory pit windows WOOT
Mandatory pit intermissions. Change the tires, line 'em up on the grid, and go again. Repeat every 10 laps.
cameraman
03-15-10, 07:05 PM
mandatory pit windows WOOT
Better a mandatory minimum number of pit stops per race but yeah...
:shakehead
oddlycalm
03-15-10, 09:27 PM
They could get Sato back, start him deep in the field, and take away his brake pedal. A thrilling and spectacular first lap ensues
:rofl: You just about choked me with this one. Glad it was water and not hot coffee...
oc
Hard Driver
03-15-10, 09:29 PM
Such a boring circuit, they ripped out the only interesting bit (the fast downhill esses) to insert the mickey mouse bit. Average lap speed for the fastest was only 191.706km/h (119.120mph) and the race only 186.272 km/h (115.744mph). The average race speed in 2009 was 201.458 km/h (125.180 mph). It's quite a marked difference and infinitely more boring!
I am sure that slower average speed was also because of the new regs (fuel). Truthfully, I don't remember what they took out.
opinionated ow
03-15-10, 09:59 PM
I am sure that slower average speed was also because of the new regs (fuel). Truthfully, I don't remember what they took out.
2009.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Bahrain_International_Circuit--Grand_Prix_Layout.svg/220px-Bahrain_International_Circuit--Grand_Prix_Layout.svg.png
2010.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Bahrain_International_Circuit--Endurance_Circuit.svg/220px-Bahrain_International_Circuit--Endurance_Circuit.svg.png
Basically they took out the section between turns 4 and 5 in the 2009 circuit. That has the effect of slowing the cars up drastically through the now turns 15 and 16 taking the speed/interest out of said corners.
Yeah, the "9 turn gimmick" didn't work for me at all.:irked:
Yeah, the "9 turn gimmick" didn't work for me at all.:irked:
For F1 to continually make these horrendous choices proves to me that our way of thinking and/or our preferences are fundamentally different from those of the European fans.
opinionated ow
03-16-10, 08:38 AM
For F1 to continually make these horrendous choices proves to me that our way of thinking and/or our preferences are fundamentally different from those of the European fans.
I think European fans are much more loyal.
Methanolandbrats
03-16-10, 08:41 AM
Improving the "show" is not that hard to figure out. Roll everything back to the last year of the V10s.
opinionated ow
03-16-10, 09:00 AM
Improving the "show" is not that hard to figure out. Roll everything back to the last year of the V10s.
Complete with tyre competition (and let them move to slicks).
Europeans different? Ya think!? Don't know if I'd use the word loyal but they certainly are more used to going along with what they are told. Blame the Middle Ages..."You vill LIKE it!"
cameraman
03-16-10, 10:29 PM
I think European fans are much more loyal.
I've spent the last two days listening to a bunch of Germans bitch & moan about that half mile of crap. They aren't quite as loyal as you think.
opinionated ow
03-16-10, 11:01 PM
I've spent the last two days listening to a bunch of Germans bitch & moan about that half mile of crap. They aren't quite as loyal as you think.
But unlike Australians or Americans who will just stop watching, they won't. A least not the Europeans I know...
But unlike Australians or Americans who will just stop watching, they won't. A least not the Europeans I know...
This Yank won't stop watching. That said, while I've always participated on CARTcentric forums and not F1 focused sites, F1 has always been my preferred flavor.
But unlike Australians or Americans who will just stop watching, they won't. A least not the Europeans I know...
I don't see me not watching F1. Though I was a CART fan, since I was a kid, F1 always drew my attention. How could I ever forget this from way back when:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrell_P34
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