View Full Version : Adios Ares/Constellation
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-no-moon-for-nasa-20100126,0,6969808.story
NASA's plans to return astronauts to the moon are dead. So are the rockets being designed to take them there — that is, if President Barack Obama gets his way.
When the White House releases his budget proposal Monday, there will be no money for the Constellation program that was supposed to return humans to the moon by 2020. The troubled and expensive Ares I rocket that was to replace the space shuttle to ferry humans to space will be gone, along with money for its bigger brother, the Ares V cargo rocket that was to launch the fuel and supplies needed to take humans back to the moon.
There will be no lunar landers, no moon bases, no Constellation program at all.
Gots to pay for the tennis courts in Montana somehow I guess. :saywhat:
-Kevin
Not surprising but disappointing anyway. :irked:
As someone who grew up watching the space program in the 60's and 70's it is just mind boggling where we stand today. :yuck:
Sean Malone
01-27-10, 12:03 PM
Why should the US spend money on outer space? I mean, heck...since China, India, Japan, Europe and Russia have programs, why should we bother? We're just one big happy human race after all....right? Right?
Interesting article about privatizing human space flight.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/science/space/27nasa.html
I guess the plan is to turn NASA in the FAA of the stars. :p
Not surprising but disappointing anyway. :irked:
As someone who grew up watching the space program in the 60's and 70's it is just mind boggling where we stand today. :yuck:
*sigh* Indeed. :saywhat:
This country is finished. :thumdown: :(
-Kevin
This country is finished. :thumdown: :(
-Kevin
I don't recall where I read it - but the point was made that in long run (the REAL LONG RUN) there is not an option to finding somewhere else to live beyond Earth.
I don't recall where I read it - but the point was made that in long run (the REAL LONG RUN) there is not an option to finding somewhere else to live beyond Earth.
James Cameron will have an answer on that soon. ;) My point was more that technologically the US is no longer leading...unless you count gizmos and gadgets by Apple. The outsourcing of America continues.... :(
-Kevin
cameraman
01-27-10, 02:32 PM
Yeah well Steve Jobs just killed the internet. It seems all data networks in and around where he is giving his dog & pony show have collapsed under the load:laugh:
Yeah well Steve Jobs just killed the internet. It seems all data networks in and around where he is giving his dog & pony show have collapsed under the load:laugh:
Pretty much. :saywhat: Somewhere out there Scotty is saying 'I'm giving her all I got, Cap'n.' :D
-Kevin
TKGAngel
01-27-10, 03:25 PM
Yeah well Steve Jobs just killed the internet. It seems all data networks in and around where he is giving his dog & pony show have collapsed under the load:laugh:
For something called the iPad? Did focus groups say "of course, name your product something that sounds like a feminine hygiene product."
At least we have a billion dollars worth of bricked gas guzzlers. :rolleyes:
coolhand
01-27-10, 05:15 PM
Interesting article about privatizing human space flight.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/science/space/27nasa.html
I guess the plan is to turn NASA in the FAA of the stars. :p
If that is the case no need to have both
I just un-followed NASA on my twitter. :gomer:
They are useless. They`ve been replaced with the ESA and RFSA.
oddlycalm
01-27-10, 06:52 PM
Interesting article about privatizing human space flight.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/science/space/27nasa.html
I guess the plan is to turn NASA in the FAA of the stars. :p
Makes sense. Whoever was on the receiving end of all those CDO's AIG issued can certainly afford it. :irked:
oc
Steve99
01-27-10, 08:11 PM
The outsourcing of America continues.... :(
So, is NASA getting outsourced to India, or China?
neither, Nigeria is the new hotness :gomer:
Obama facing uprising over new NASA strategy (http://asia.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20100311/tbs-obama-space-7318940.html)
It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Keeping the shuttle flying might be necessary, but it certainly isn't advancing technology or innovation - be it with NASA or private industry.
Sean Malone
03-11-10, 10:45 AM
Spent a few hours visiting the Kennedy Space Center this past Sunday. The atmosphere with the visitors and employees was best described as somber,as if already people were looking back instead of forward, which our space program was meant for.
I did pick up a cool stuffed shuttle! My wife wouldn't let me get the extremely cool lithos they had. :(
I read last week that a congressman from TX has proposed a bill to keep the Shuttle flying beyond this year. Obviously not optimal, but IMO better than the alternative of relying on the Russkies for manned flights. :saywhat: It's just sickening to contemplate the success of the space race of the 50s and 60s coming to this end. :irked: :mad: If this comes to pass, the US will be the master of nothing except for stupid smartphones. :thumdown:
-Kevin
ChampcarShark
03-11-10, 02:21 PM
Then we have the x-prize foundation to make going into space affordable for all of us.
http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/
This makes me sick. My son dreams of being an astronaut, and now... I guess Americans can no longer dream of the stars.
But there is plenty of money for Goldman Sachs. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
It is times like this that make me wonder if old Osama wasn't on to something after all.
I'm a HUGE proponent of space exploration. But, Ares and Constellation are not (and were not) the way to continue that. They merely echoed the same mistakes that were made with the Space Shuttle.
Remember, early space exploration (read: Everything up to, and including Apollo) was as much about showing off our military technology as it was about exploring space. "If we can put a man on the moon, you KNOW we can put a warhead into Red Square."
After Apollo, there was little left to prove, but nobody had the appetite to say, "That's it." So, the idea was to prove that spaceflight could be commercially viable. A reusable spacecraft was designed using almost entirely off the shelf parts, and NASA put its heads down to prove that they could put one of them into space frequently. There was HEAVY pressure to launch Challenger in the cold because there were 12 or 13 shuttle launches planned in 1996. They had to get that one off the ground so they could launch the next one.
There were problems:
1. It couldn't carry anything all that heavy
2. There isn't a real use for an El Camino to the stars - the idea that you could bring stuff from space back to earth proved silly. In almost every case, it is easier to build and launch something new than it is to go into space, catch something, and upgrade it. (And it is even more silly to go get it, and bring it back down. You can just as easily burn it up in the atmosphere)
3. Nothing new was learned in the process - except maybe "When you get careless, you kill astronauts." There certainly weren't technological advancements.
4. Because of multiple mistakes, it was waaay expensive, and proved to be nowhere NEAR viable for regular trips into space.
5. Because it was old technology, it was also unreliable. The shuttles are difficult and expensive to maintain.
Ares/Constellation were repeating those mistakes. The crew capsule is an evolution of the Apollo capsule. The launch vehicle combines the shuttle's SRBs and Solid Rocket Boosters. And, like the shuttle, the whole thing is way behind schedule, and way over budget.
You could spend a ton of money finishing the project, but what would you get for it? There has to be a better way to explore space, and the money is better spent doing something new and useful than sending people into space using equipment based on 40 year old designs.
That is what Obama is proposing, and in the long term, it is better than sending people into space, just so we can say we're still doing so.
Methanolandbrats
03-11-10, 05:06 PM
This makes me sick. My son dreams of being an astronaut, and now... I guess Americans can no longer dream of the stars.
But there is plenty of money for Goldman Sachs. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
It is times like this that make me wonder if old Osama wasn't on to something after all.
Osama just sped it up a little. American culture is going to deleverage for decades, everything will go in the tank and our standard of living will take a big hit. Since WW2 the government has borrowed money, consumers have spent beyond their means and it's all coming home to roost.
Good post JoeBob.
I'll wait to see what ideas come up on the April 15 conference on the future direction of the space program. I hope for a more future leaning manned program and a continued robust unmanned exploration program.
There has to be a better way to explore space, and the money is better spent doing something new and useful than sending people into space using equipment based on 40 year old designs.
I'd like to see a vehicle that could take off, orbit, and land, but one that takes 3-4 people and some gear to the space station is all they need now.
Look at deep sea exploration. They've maintained the capability to send people to great depths, but have focused on unmanned exploration and the construction of robotic tools that can operate in such a harsh environment.
cameraman
03-12-10, 02:05 AM
Personally I think the idea of sending humans to Mars is an idiotic waste of money. For the price of getting a couple people to one spot on Mars you could saturate the place with rovers and other robots. You could also build some that could bring things back. Spend the money on the science not on a space going Winnebago.
Personally I think the idea of sending humans to Mars is an idiotic waste of money.
I think it's a great use of money. I just get to pick the humans.
:)
oddlycalm
03-15-10, 05:35 PM
The last thing I want to do is turn this into a political discussion or draw overly simplistic conclusions, but it does seem something more than a coincidence that Mercury, Gemini and Apollo happened during an era where we saw the highest marginal tax rates in history for the highest earners The year we landed on the moon anything over $200,000 was taxed at 75.25%. Even with Vietnam in full swing we were able to budget money to follow through on the space program.
I'm not advocating a return to higher marginal tax rates, or for or against the space program, just pointing out the correlation.
oc
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates-graph.php
Sean Malone
03-16-10, 09:02 AM
The last thing I want to do is turn this into a political discussion or draw overly simplistic conclusions, but it does seem something more than a coincidence that Mercury, Gemini and Apollo happened during an era where we saw the highest marginal tax rates in history for the highest earners The year we landed on the moon anything over $200,000 was taxed at 75.25%. Even with Vietnam in full swing we were able to budget money to follow through on the space program.
I'm not advocating a return to higher marginal tax rates, or for or against the space program, just pointing out the correlation.
oc
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates-graph.php
Amazing the competitiveness a cold war generates!
I really don't think it's money. NASA's budget is nothing. Lack of vision and leadership is the problem IMO. If they (NASA and the government) could get the public excited about a new mission for NASA the funds could be found.
oddlycalm
03-16-10, 02:43 PM
I really don't think it's money. NASA's budget is nothing. Lack of vision and leadership is the problem IMO. If they (NASA and the government) could get the public excited about a new mission for NASA the funds could be found.
I don't disagree and the combination of being broke and not having any strong advocates seems deadly.
On a tangentially related topic we are on the cusp of allowing our higher education system to crumble. This year the stimulus cushioned the blow a bit but in 2011 state universities are going to smack into the iceberg of financial reality and that's going to be a game changer because that's the foundation our economy rests on. Don't expect any leadership or mission statement as that day approaches either.
oc
SurfaceUnits
03-19-10, 12:31 AM
^^^^Every college town needs to be like Portland: make sure there are enough strip clubs available for the co-eds to work their way through school.
oddlycalm
03-19-10, 04:05 PM
^^^^Every college town needs to be like Portland: make sure there are enough strip clubs available for the co-eds to work their way through school.
:laugh: Right, because all the sad bendover artists are pre-med and future rocket scientists.... :gomer:
BTW, we are surrendering top honors and have slipped to 9th per capita on the strip clubs behind wild and crazy Wisconsin and not far ahead of Ohio and Indiana. Who knew...?
Beaver state loses top spot (http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2009/02/11/beaver_state_loses_top_strip_c)
1 West Virginia 22,176.46
2 District of Columbia 29,076.50
3 South Dakota 35,541.77
4 Nevada 36,698.96
5 New Jersey 49,571.36
6 Hawaii 55,891.22
7 Wyoming 57,222.67
8 Wisconsin 57,880.27
9 Oregon 63,806.17
10 Louisiana 63,996.54
11 Iowa 64,827.93
12 Indiana 67,165.11
13 Ohio 68,730.57
oc
http://post.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2009/02/11/1234401771-strip_club_map.jpg
cameraman
03-19-10, 05:53 PM
42 Utah 159,378.94
...
46 California 171,969.57
:rolleyes::shakehead:saywhat:
Okay those are some seriously skewed numbers. What are they counting in Utah as a strip club?
oddlycalm
03-20-10, 10:53 PM
:rolleyes::shakehead:saywhat:
Okay those are some seriously skewed numbers. What are they counting in Utah as a strip club?
Hey, I was going for laughs....:gomer:
A guy on this forum....
strip club per capita discussion (http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=61715.0)
...claims he used this as his data source. Knock yourself out.
http://stripclublist.com/ (http://www.stripclublist.com/)
oc
cameraman
03-21-10, 01:57 AM
Well if your goal is to see a stripper actually strip there is exactly 1 place in the entire state so Utah should have a rating of 2,736,424....
Huh, vintage space shuttles. Maybe NASA and the IRL can merge their efforts as they seem to be going in the same direction.
oddlycalm
03-21-10, 03:38 PM
Huh, vintage space shuttles. Maybe NASA and the IRL can merge their efforts as they seem to be going in the same direction.
Maybe NASA should sell sponsorships? I'm sure a lunar module in corporate livery with associate sponsors all over it would be real festive. :gomer:
oc
Maybe NASA should sell sponsorships? I'm sure a lunar module in corporate livery with associate sponsors all over it would be real festive. :gomer:
oc
Go Daddy.... :gomer:
-Kevin
devilmaster
03-21-10, 04:29 PM
Dyson. The official Vac-u-suck of the space shuttle.
oddlycalm
03-21-10, 10:49 PM
An Ares in Viagra livery would be too predictable I guess.
It probably wouldn't do for the corporate sponsors to claim ownership of any and all rocks landed on, but the details could be smoothed over later. :gomer:
oc
Adios Ares...Hello X-37B Mini Shuttle.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1268138/X-37B-unmanned-space-shuttle-launched-tonight.html
Air Force doesn't know what it's for. :laugh:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1885/article1268138094037020.jpg
Air Force doesn't know what it's for. :laugh:
The vehicle is designed to "provide an 'on-orbit laboratory' test environment to prove new technology and components before those technologies are committed to operational satellite programs," the Air Force said in a recent release.
A concise and direct answer that doesn't answer the question. :rofl:
At first I thought it was to be an ultra high altitude recon UAV. They could easily change its orbit over 9 months to keep people on the ground guessing when it would fly overhead.
But the bomb bay doors and cargo capacity makes me say, Hmm? There are cheaper, exisiting rockets that can put satellites into orbit, and the only thing coming back down is gigabytes of data.
The Navy used nuclear subs to gather intel against the Soviets by placing listening devices on the undersea communication lines. Now that most communication is handled by satellite, I wonder if this bird is designed to capture and tap into someone else's satellite. That way they could capture or stop any data streams.
...or it's just a kite to scare the Chinese. :p
...or it's just a kite to scare the Chinese. :p
Strategic Defense Initiative (aka Star Wars) pt 2?
I have 0 clue about the x-37 revival other than it lends credance to my desire to enlist in USAF OCS w/ my recent career path...
but I just have to laugh at every bending over backwards about how they dont know what X-37 is for.... like USAF is there to explain the purpose of every last black box program...
the **** dude... the ****..
racermike
04-24-10, 07:38 PM
Adios Ares...Hello X-37B Mini Shuttle.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1268138/X-37B-unmanned-space-shuttle-launched-tonight.html
Air Force doesn't know what it's for. :laugh:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1885/article1268138094037020.jpg
Is it just me, or does this thing resemble the Delta Wing :D
USAF Falcon Hypersonic Technology Vehicle 2
Lost in Space
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/116/darpafalcon.jpg
The test flight called for a 30-minute mission in which the vehicle would glide at high speed before splashing down in the Pacific Ocean, north of a US military test site at the Kwajalein Atoll.
The glider separated from the booster but soon after the signal vanished, a spokeswoman said.
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/sci-tech/us-hypersonic-glider-flunks-first-test-flight-20100428-trm8.html
That would be hard to explain to the generals. All it had to do was fall out of the sky... ;)
^ that's just what they want us to believe ;)
I have 0 clue about the x-37 revival other than it lends credance to my desire to enlist in USAF OCS w/ my recent career path...
Wait. I didn't catch that.
You joining the USAF?
Aim high, just don't aim at me.
long story, was highly considered, end goal: to own the Denver Broncos
http://www.the-iss.com/2009/08/24/img/scorpio.jpg
long story, was highly considered, end goal: to own the Denver Broncos
http://mimg.ugo.com/200903/21994/real-genius.jpg
Fixed. :gomer: :p
-Kevin
devilmaster
04-29-10, 04:10 PM
long story, was highly considered, end goal: to own the Denver Broncos
http://www.mycen.com.my/sightings_pics/alex_yoong.jpg
Really Fixed.
:gomer:
coolhand
04-30-10, 06:38 PM
I don't see what the head scratching about The X-37B is about. There are countless possibilities.
It is basically a Space UAV that can rendezvous with other orbiting objects much faster and cheaper than the shuttle. Also can put up temporary payloads to do R&D on new sensing technologies and bring the payload back to tweek with.
Not really a new idea, but the communications and computing technology has finally arrived to make it happen at a reasonable cost.
It goes to show we are still way ahead in aerospace technology.
:D : Droid fever: Catch It.
coolhand
05-06-10, 01:27 AM
This will answer some questions
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29577086/Space-Operations
The "blocker" or "grabber" would be hillarious, especially to Chinese space stuff.
The "blocker" or "grabber" would be hillarious, especially to Chinese space stuff.
"blocker" & "jammer" :thumbup:
What? I'm not touching your satellite.
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/8013/touch.jpg
Look at deep sea exploration. They've maintained the capability to send people to great depths, but have focused on unmanned exploration and the construction of robotic tools that can operate in such a harsh environment.
^ :laugh: not so much.
In rocket related news:
ATK Space Systems says it has been cleared for a scheduled ground test of a new rocket motor in September.
ATK says it received notice from NASA that the company will receive $160 million to prepare for the rocket test despite doubts about the future of the space program.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gaGe6zfY0dtzSAF_DsVGOR3eBkpAD9GIIM900
They want to know if it works before they scrap it. :gomer:
^ :laugh: not so much.
the ROVs operate well enough, it's everything else failing down there
cameraman
08-31-10, 08:26 PM
They want to know if it works before they scrap it. :gomer:
It does.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=12234030
There's some decent video in the story.
I hope they pointed that rocket to the West during the test:
1. no one cares about Nevada.
2. the Rockies make an excellent sound wall.
3. slowing the Earth's rotation will give me more time to waste. :p
stroker
08-31-10, 10:35 PM
Needs more overthruster.
Not enough monkeyboys...
stroker
08-31-10, 10:37 PM
Now that most communication is handled by satellite, I wonder if this bird is designed to capture and tap into someone else's satellite.
Isn't that sorta like "You Only Live Twice"?
stroker
08-31-10, 10:41 PM
What are they counting in Utah as a strip club?
Larry the Cable Guy used to do a bit about "headlining" in strip clubs located in doublewides with stages made out of cases of Bud Light and poles made of PVC...
3. slowing the Earth's rotation will give me more time to waste. :p
you might have mixed up that whole "equal and opposite" bit Newton used to rant about
Shaddup, you. Remember as a business major it's not important whether the product works, just how much you can sell it for. ;)
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