View Full Version : How to slash chassis costs?
In the Cleveland transcript, Pook says:
http://www.cart.com/News/Article.asp?ID=6163
"Yes, well, one of the things we want to do is bring the chassis prices down to a sensible level where guys can buy a chassis for 250,000, 265,000 for a rolling chassis versus 400,000 today. That's one of the things we are doing."
From $400k to $250K... How are they gonna do THAT?
chop456
06-03-03, 11:02 PM
There are probably quite a few Lola T97/20's laying around unused. :shakehead:
I have no idea, unless they think Walker will build Reynards at a break-even pricing structure. Lola sure as hell won't do it, and I don't think ol' Carl will give up his slice of that pie, either.
They can't take a step backwards with regard to quality, that's for sure.
Keep Rudolfo Lavin running in the series and the cost of building one ought to go down from shear numbers
Ziggy
Sean O'Gorman
06-03-03, 11:37 PM
My idea to reduce costs may be a bit unusual (or perhaps unfeasible), but I think its at least worth mentioning. I say CART goes to a spec tub, with certain parts (brakes, radiators, transmission, non-adjustable suspension components, perhaps some aero pieces, etc...) identical on all the cars as well. Any constructor (Lola, Reynard, Swift, or whoever) would have to pay a predetermined amount that would go towards development of the spec car, and they would become the official retailers of the car. While the tub and some of the parts on all the cars would be identical whether it is being sold by Reynard or Dallara, each manufacturer could offer their own versions with their specifically developed wings, sidepods, shocks, or whatever. Or, a team with a bigger budget could develop their own pieces instead of using what any of the constructors offer. Regardless, under my rules they would have to make anything they design available for sale at a predetermined rate, and you could only release these pieces every so often (once or twice a year?) so that lower budget teams aren't having to buy new parts every 4-5 races to keep up.
Napoleon
06-04-03, 10:06 AM
Interesting ideas Sean. Perhaps it is workable.
Part of the reason why there are $400,000 champcars is that teams could afford them. CART was flush with money in the mid to late 90s and teams automatically ordered new tubs for the next season by the middle of the current one. They paid the price Adrian Reynard decided to charge because they could.
I know of one major two car team that ordered five new Reynards and optioned a sixth for every season. And this was in a period when Reynard was only making incremental changes to their cars rather than starting a clean sheet design or even doing major redesign of problematic components. Perfectly serviceable tubs were being turned into display cars just because sponsor relations dictated showing brand new unblemish equipment to the money men at the beginning of the season to justify the size of the checks.
Very good idea Sean! (though I tend to disagree with the team mods part)
Otherwise, if CART went totally spec chassis (presumably Lola)... and one constructor had the whole deal all to themselves (for economies of scale) and there was no more R&D expense to be faster than the other constructors, about how much might that reduce the cost of a chassis?
Sean O'Gorman
06-04-03, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by ChrisB
Otherwise, if CART went totally spec chassis (presumably Lola)... and one constructor had the whole deal all to themselves (for economies of scale) and there was no more R&D expense to be faster than the other constructors, about how much might that reduce the cost of a chassis?
I guess it all depends. With a spec chassis, R&D costs go down, but with no competition, that one manufacturer can charge whatever they want, even if the car is a total POS. Just look at the Swift in Toyota Atlantics, how it was worse than the car it replaced, has outrageous prices for spares, and is apparently high maintenence when it c omes to things like spares. I think the biggest protection against this happening is the fact that it would be pretty easy to price yourself out of the market completely (as Swift could soon find out). Better to sell 20 cars at $250k each than to sell 0 at $500k.
Originally posted by SOG35
Better to sell 20 cars at $250k each than to sell 0 at $500k.
My point exactly. Swift charges what they do because they can. Reynard charged what they did because they could.
CART should consider acting as the middle-man for chassis suppliers just as the seem to want to do for engine suppliers. Costs can be capped or contained.
Well as long as we are talking about going all spec. Why don't they just slap a big ass turbo on the Focus midget motor, stick it in an Atlantics chassis and have a total cost of ownership around 200-250k for chassis and motor.
Stop with all the spec this and that talk.
Swift charges what they do because they can. Reynard charged what they did because they could.
What if CART were to set a mandated price which must be met to be the exclusive spec chassis?
The IRL sets a price at $309K for it's chassis:
http://www.indycarseries.com/indycar/garage/chassis.php
Spec or not, does anyone see IRL-style mandated chassis prices in CART's future?
They can get rid of all of the jet-fighter cockpit instrumentation and go back to analogue tach, oil pressure, and water temperature gages. The racing wouldn't suffer because of it. All of that instrumentation and telemetry drives the cost up big time. Race car drivers were able to survive without all of that before, they can do it again.
I'd love to see a champcar steering wheel with only two buttons on it -- kill and fire suppression.
JLMannin
06-04-03, 06:17 PM
IIRC, approximately 150K of that 400K is for the superspeedway package. Speedway wings, undertray, engine cowling, suspension, etc. Basically everything that bolts to the tub is replaced in the superspeedway congifuration.
Si if CART drops Fontana (or Fontana drops CART, more likely), then the need for the superspeedway package goes along with it.
Originally posted by DaveL
They can get rid of all of the jet-fighter cockpit instrumentation and go back to analogue tach, oil pressure, and water temperature gages. The racing wouldn't suffer because of it. All of that instrumentation and telemetry drives the cost up big time. Race car drivers were able to survive without all of that before, they can do it again.
Common sense as usual.
Originally posted by JLMannin
IIRC, approximately 150K of that 400K is for the superspeedway package. Speedway wings, undertray, engine cowling, suspension, etc. Basically everything that bolts to the tub is replaced in the superspeedway congifuration.
Si if CART drops Fontana (or Fontana drops CART, more likely), then the need for the superspeedway package goes along with it.
The champcars ran at Eurospeedway with road course undertrays. I suppose CART could mandate one undertray for all uses and make the race engineers deal with it.
Originally posted by pchall
My point exactly. Swift charges what they do because they can. Reynard charged what they did because they could.
CART should consider acting as the middle-man for chassis suppliers just as the seem to want to do for engine suppliers. Costs can be capped or contained.
I'm digging the idea but how would it work out exactly? Teams place orders with CART and CART in turns places them with the constructor at a predetermined price?
originally posted by turn7
Why don't they just slap a big ass turbo on the Focus midget motor,
Did you see that 1st race of the Focus midgets at Irwindale? Pretty hot little cars. What was amazing was Kurt Busch ran that race, his first ever in an OW spridget, and did amazingly well. That kid is one of the best natural talents to come along in a long time. I'd love to see Cart get looked at by him if he was ever interested in changing challenges in his career.
Alas, it probably will never happen. :(
Cmndr Keen
06-07-03, 10:40 AM
Bag the whole superspeedway/road course need both to play deal. Gotta be able to do both with minmal changes. If not, they need to seriously re-evaluate the superspeedways that require that set-up. I just don't think in the current climate, CART can continue to ask it's teams to pay cost like that. One car, one series is the way to go. At least for the short term future.
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