View Full Version : Saturn
Napoleon
05-05-09, 09:30 AM
My local paper's business section has a blurb, sourced to Bloomberg, which quotes Roger Penske as saying he has been negotiating with GM over the purchase of Saturn.
datachicane
05-05-09, 10:13 AM
INDIANAPOLIS, Indiana (Reuters) – Automaker to replace departing Japanese manufacturer in Indy racing
Former General Motors division Saturn is talking with Indy racing management about the prospects for replacing departing Honda, the troubled racing league said Tuesday.
The clock is ticking on the series, whose exclusive engine supply arrangement with Honda will end when vacationing Honda administrative staff return from vacation sometime this spring.
"A number of potential manufacturers have surfaced and expressed interest in the Indy brand," Indianapolis Motor Speedway heir Tony George said in a statement. "There's tremendous enthusiasm out there."
George has retained Stephen Girsky's S.J. Girsky & Co. to advise the effort. Girsky has been an adviser to Gene Simmons and GM and is a former Morgan Stanley automotive analyst.
In April, Roger Penske's Penske Automotive Group in Bloomfield Hills announced a pitch to acquire the Saturn brand.
Other potential suitors are not publicly known.
Girsky & Co. to advise the effort. Girsky has been an adviser to Gene Simmons and GM and is a former Morgan Stanley automotive analyst.
Srsly? If this were the case, would you actually admit to it? :saywhat: :shakehead
@ least with the Saturn badging the flying cars make sense. :gomer:
-Kevin
indyfan31
05-05-09, 10:40 AM
Seriously? This is what passes for English at Reuters?
... when vacationing Honda administrative staff return from vacation ...
Napoleon
05-05-09, 10:47 AM
Seriously? This is what passes for English at Reuters?
Datachicane ought to be proud that he got so many to bite at his post. It looks to me that he copied an actual Reuters story then "onionized" it with stuff like Gene Simmons and Honda's employees vacations.
datachicane
05-05-09, 11:31 AM
Sorry for the unpolished work- I banged it out on the quick on my Blackberry.
:tony:
extramundane
05-05-09, 02:05 PM
My local paper's business section has a blurb, sourced to Bloomberg, which quotes Roger Penske as saying he has been negotiating with GM over the purchase of Saturn.
I realize Roger's supposed to be the smartest person to walk the face of the earth since Jesus and/or William F. Buckley, but I have to question the purchase of a brand that at this point would get him a network of dealers with nothing to sell and little else.
Street-legal Dallara/Ilmors? :tony:
He does has the Smart car franchise for North America. He could leverage the dealerships and bring in other models from various manufacturers. All under the banner of Saturn.
I for one hope he continues this naming convention and places all of his holdings under names from our planetary system. I'd suggest putting his IRL team under Uranus.
datachicane
05-05-09, 02:52 PM
I thought he already did.
:tony:
Sean Malone
05-05-09, 03:19 PM
I realize Roger's supposed to be the smartest person to walk the face of the earth since Jesus and/or William F. Buckley, but I have to question the purchase of a brand that at this point would get him a network of dealers with nothing to sell and little else.
Street-legal Dallara/Ilmors? :tony:
My assumption would be he just wants the name.
nissan gtp
05-05-09, 04:33 PM
they should re-name it Uranus, be perfect for the earl :laugh:
oddlycalm
05-05-09, 05:55 PM
Sorry for the unpolished work- I banged it out on the quick on my Blackberry.:tony:
Did you know it was Golden Week last week in Japan, with everyone on vacation, or was that blind luck...? :D
oc
Sorry for the unpolished work- I banged it out on the quick on my Blackberry.
:tony:
Shame on you. ;) However, I wouldn't put it past Cap'n Liver Spots to try to over IMS and the EARL outright. :tony:
-Kevin
meadors
05-06-09, 02:25 AM
All under the banner of Saturn.
I for one hope he continues this naming convention and places all of his holdings under names from our planetary system. I'd suggest putting his IRL team under Uranus.
Any mention of using planetary names has to bring this up:rofl:
http://www.boreme.com/media/yr2006/titan-uranus.jpg
extramundane
05-06-09, 09:00 AM
My assumption would be he just wants the name.
Seems like an awfully large investment (especially with the baggage associated with a GM company) for a name that elicits either negative or neutral response with most of America. And I can't imagine the Smart franchise is so lucrative as to require the infrastructure of the Saturn dealer network.
I'm guessing either he sells shortly to or partners with a Chinese automaker.
Sean Malone
05-06-09, 10:04 AM
Seems like an awfully large investment (especially with the baggage associated with a GM company) for a name that elicits either negative or neutral response with most of America. And I can't imagine the Smart franchise is so lucrative as to require the infrastructure of the Saturn dealer network.
I'm guessing either he sells shortly to or partners with a Chinese automaker.
Probably. The Chinese are all over the auto news with interest in obtaining these orphan makes in order for global manufacturing expansion.
FIAT is on a roll right now trying to buy Opel (and Vauxhall) and maybe Saab. Rumor has it the Chinese are in the mix too.
Ferdman
05-06-09, 10:39 AM
they should re-name it Uranus, be perfect for the earl :laugh:
Wait 'tilll they discover the klingons there. Even more perfect for the earl. :laugh:
TravelGal
05-06-09, 01:25 PM
Seriously? This is what passes for English at Reuters?
In fact, it is what passes for English at Reuters. The Brits and their colleagues use collective nouns like "staff" as a plural noun. We use it as a signular noun. An easier example might be: The board of directors have taken a decision, vs The board of directors has made a decision.
Insomniac
05-06-09, 02:33 PM
WSJ says Renault is talking to GM.
WSJ says Renault is talking to GM.
Be nice to have another F1 manufacturer in the US. Especially, that one.
Sooner or later, F1 has to come back to NA, if not the US.
Methanolandbrats
05-06-09, 03:02 PM
Be nice to have another F1 manufacturer in the US. Especially, that one.
Sooner or later, F1 has to come back to NA, if not the US. It will probably be a s***** street race at night.
It will probably be a s***** street race at 6:30 am.
Fixerd for the European TV audience. :D
Sean Malone
05-06-09, 03:38 PM
WSJ says Renault is talking to GM.
From what I'm reading 'everyone' is talking to GM. Fiat wants Opel, maybe Saab). If anyone thinks the Chrysler deal was entertaining...wait until the GM game gets rolling. This should be good.
Napoleon
05-21-09, 08:19 AM
The newest on Saturn (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/20/AR2009052003746_pf.html)
GM has term sheets out to 12 interested parties.
WickerBill
05-21-09, 09:41 AM
So when should I, as a two-Saturn family, start panicking? Just need a timeframe...
oddlycalm
05-21-09, 01:02 PM
Saturn should be attractive because it's relatively modern and it's a standalone operation, meaning they do everything from manufacturing of engine and tranny parts to sub-assembly to final assembly. That makes it singular among US owned auto plants. They make everything for cam and crankshafts to gears for the manual trannies there and it's in a rural are with a trained workforce.
Compared to an assembly only plant this is a no brainer for the right company.
oc
extramundane
05-21-09, 01:33 PM
Saturn should be attractive because it's relatively modern and it's a standalone operation, meaning they do everything from manufacturing of engine and tranny parts to sub-assembly to final assembly. That makes it singular among US owned auto plants. They make everything for cam and crankshafts to gears for the manual trannies there and it's in a rural are with a trained workforce.
Compared to an assembly only plant this is a no brainer for the right company.
oc
That makes me rethink the whole situation. I didn't realize "Saturn" still had any facilities of its own, since Spring Hill's cranking out GMCs and all Saturns are either built outside the US or alongside its GM platform-mates.
Napoleon
05-21-09, 01:52 PM
That makes me rethink the whole situation. I didn't realize "Saturn" still had any facilities of its own, since Spring Hill's cranking out GMCs and all Saturns are either built outside the US or alongside its GM platform-mates.
I don't think they have their own facilities anymore. The article I link to sounds like everyone who is interested is just buying it as a network of dealers to sell some foreign brand at.
oddlycalm
05-21-09, 05:36 PM
The article I link to sounds like everyone who is interested is just buying it as a network of dealers to sell some foreign brand at.
Oh, that's very different, nevermind. :gomer:
oc
The newest on Saturn (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/20/AR2009052003746_pf.html)
GM has term sheets out to 12 interested parties.
Probably the same folks interested in buiding IRL engines. :gomer:
extramundane
06-05-09, 09:11 AM
Penske/Saturn is go, apparently (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/06/business/06saturn.html?_r=1&hp).
Under the terms of the deal, Mr. Penske, a former race car driver whose Penske Automotive Group is one of the largest dealerships in the country, will initially buy Saturn vehicles from G.M. But he is expected to eventually buy cars from other carmakers like Renault, through its Samsung Motors Unit in Korea.
So Penske is just buying the name? :confused:
So Penske is just buying the name? :confused:
The brand and the dealer network, IIRC.
-Kevin
Don Quixote
06-05-09, 10:24 AM
So Penske is just buying the name? :confused: Whatever he is doing, we know it is good for him, and him only. I was reading a thread on another site where folks were feeling all warm and fuzzy about what a great thing Penske is doing. Oh brother. :shakehead
Methanolandbrats
06-05-09, 11:04 AM
He bought it so he has motors for his Indycar Series after he buys IMS. :gomer:
Al Czervik
06-05-09, 11:20 AM
Presenting the 2010 Saturn Montegi.
Good enough to win the Car of the Year, but will let someone else win it.
-or-
The Saturn Helio 497.5.
Even if you pass it, it will magically be placed ahead of you.
extramundane
06-05-09, 11:27 AM
He bought it so he has motors for his Indycar Series after he buys IMS. :gomer:
Those little Korean Samsung mills oughta be just right for the Indy Centennial. :thumbup:
Sean Malone
06-05-09, 11:30 AM
Presenting the 2010 Saturn Montegi.
Good enough to win the Car of the Year, but will let someone else win it.
-or-
The Saturn Helio 497.5.
Even if you pass it, it will magically be placed ahead of you.
:rofl:
opinionated ow
06-05-09, 11:53 AM
Those little Korean Samsung mills oughta be just right for the Indy Centennial. :thumbup:
The key part of that is RENAULT. And the Korean assembled renaults have been running fine in Australia.
extramundane
06-05-09, 12:36 PM
The key part of that is RENAULT.
I doubt it, at least not at first. I'll be surprised if the Samsung connection does anything beyond crank out a couple of low-end econoboxes to fill the holes in the New Saturn's model lineup.
TKGAngel
06-05-09, 01:05 PM
He bought it so he has motors for his Indycar Series after he buys IMS. :gomer:
Nah. Saturn to NASCAR. He can disguise the furrin built engine with the Saturn badge.
Methanolandbrats
06-05-09, 01:27 PM
Nah. Saturn to NASCAR. He can disguise the furrin built engine with the Saturn badge. That means a trick pushrod Smart Car motor to INdy...makes sense, badge it as a Penske Mercedes.
oddlycalm
06-05-09, 02:24 PM
Private labeling for cars has been with us for a while via GM, now Penske takes it to it's logical conclusion. Why not Sears as well with Kenmore motors...:yuck:?
oc
The sale will save 13,000 jobs and 350 dealers “in the near term,” said Detroit-based GM, which like Penske Auto wouldn’t detail the terms. The price will be $100 million to $200 million, said a person familiar with the talks, who declined to be identified because the deal isn’t complete. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=ae2V3Y.7j85k&refer=news
And then...
Penske Auto plans to keep selling Saturns made by GM, which has said it’s willing to assemble the cars on a contract basis through 2011. Chief Executive Officer Roger Penske, 72, said he expects to line up a “worldwide partner” to produce future Saturns with an “ultimate goal” of building them in the U.S.
So those 13,000 jobs aren't really saved they're just given a reprieve until the contract to manufacture them runs out. In the mean time Penske probably will probably find some Chinese or Korean crapwagon to carry the Saturn badge. I suppose he could try to use his Toyota connections but Toyota doesn't need another badge.
It seems like there's going to be a gap between the end of Saturn production and "utlimately" building the new cars in the U.S. I suppose that gives Penske leverage to negotiate to buy one of GM's shuttered plants cheap and renegotiate a contract with the workers on his terms. But I'm not holding my breath.
How sad is it that the "fresh start" for U.S. auto manufacturing will likely be reduced to a badge for imports. :\
How sad is it that the "fresh start" for U.S. auto manufacturing will likely be reduced to a badge for imports. :\
There's no manufacturing involved for Penske. And that's likely his key to success. No legacy union contracts, no investment in infrastructure. Just a distributor network that he can align with several different sources. Buy low, where ever that may be, ship to the US and sell them in his network. He can be much more nimble and probably has a dozen manufacturers calling him on the phone as this deal closes.
Sean Malone
06-08-09, 08:12 AM
If I were Rog i'd go 100% electric in 2012. Can I get one in liverspot brown please?
Napoleon
09-20-09, 06:13 AM
Wll here is a "Roger takes on Saturn" story from the Sunday paper (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/business/20saturn.html?hpw)
oddlycalm
09-20-09, 03:53 PM
Penske is intrigued by the potential of Saturn’s 350 dealerships, regardless of whether G.M. could supply them with cars indefinitely.
I'm no Penske fan but it's hard to argue with his plan. Penske knows the dealship business and he realized the Saturn dealer model was successful even if Saturn overall was not. Those 350 Saturn dealers are among the best dealers GM had when it came to customer satisfaction.
With all the excess capacity that exists in the business getting a builder to supply cars to his specs should be a no brainer. Having the agility to source from multiple companies should let him choose the ones that end up getting it right during what will be a major transition period.
oc
RIP, Saturn.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SATURN_PENSKE?SITE=WCMHTV&SECTION=BUSINESS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
-Kevin
Hard Driver
09-30-09, 05:27 PM
Saturn is being shut down. Service will continue at other GM dealerships.
Way to go GM. Take a good idea, run it into the ground, fail to deliver on the product and then drive it into the ground. I really don't understand US automakers.
Sean Malone
09-30-09, 05:52 PM
Wasn't the new Aurora 'car of the year' just 3 years ago? If I recall it was the first model to be built on that platform, the same platform that the new Malibu (also car of the year) and critically acclaimed Buick Lacross are. I just think GM wants Chevy to get the press, not Saturn.
I'm rather surprised Penske walked with all of the crossover going on these days. 50% or more comes from 3rd party supplier anyway. But then, why would GM build a car that they aren't QA'ing (GM and QA in the same sentence LOL!).
Napoleon
09-30-09, 05:58 PM
You beat me to it.
It surprises me that with historic levels of over capacity Roger couldn't find someone to sell him cars.
Why would you sell Roger cars when you could just sell them yourselves? Roger is going to want a quantity discount so he can keep his prices competitive.
If a foreign company is going to go through the process of getting a car approved for sale in the US, adding dealers isn't going to be a big issue. Hell, there's tons of perfectly good car dealerships shuttered all over the country.
RIP Saturn.
Penske is rumored to be looking (or was asked to look) at Bruce Rossmeyer's H-D dealerships.
miatanut
09-30-09, 10:47 PM
Saturn is being shut down. Service will continue at other GM dealerships.
Way to go GM. Take a good idea, run it into the ground, fail to deliver on the product and then drive it into the ground. I really don't understand US automakers.
Yup! :(
Napoleon
10-01-09, 07:57 AM
Supposedly it was Renault that he was talking to about supplying cars.
I think every single story I have seen on this when discussing Roger says some variation of "former race car driver" or "racing legend".
rosawendel
10-01-09, 08:06 AM
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9131/jimsmith.jpg
"Honey, I'm home! Lost my job; don't have a car. What's for dinner?"
Sounds like the worst day ever.
chop456
10-01-09, 08:07 AM
Supposedly it was Renault that he was talking to about supplying cars.
Samsung/Renault. Too bad it wasn't purely Renault. They have some sweet cars.
Napoleon
10-01-09, 08:33 AM
"Honey, I'm home! Lost my job; don't have a car. What's for dinner?"
Sounds like the worst day ever.
A friend of mine works at a Saturn dealership here in the Cleveland area in sales. There is not doubt he will ultimately land on his feet, but all the same who knows how long before that actually happens.
Samsung/Renault.
OK, I had to look that up. I did not know they owned a Korean car company.
Steve99
10-02-09, 12:19 PM
Roger is going to want a quantity discount so he can keep his prices competitive.
Roger probably tried to sweeten the deal by offering free IRL tickets. No wonder things fell apart.
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