Nelson Maniacs!

[G.]

easy bein' green (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517758,00.html)

Little early on the tech side for carbon-footprinting the earl cars.

[chop456]

former Champ Car driver

:laugh:

:tony::tony::tony:

[Methanolandbrats]

Nelson is a total ********. He's playing right into the hands of the eco-nazis when in fact motorsport uses so little fuel it's irrelevant. **** you Frog Hippie moron. What little is left of actual motor racing could be thrown away if this sort of ******** catches on. I get stuck behind Prius Drivers all the time going 24 in a 25, 34 in a 35, etc....bastards. Don't think I'm buying a ticket to hear about that ******** at the track. That aticle really fires me up for the Historics at Road America when the Can Am group goes out :D A couple of those are painted green.

[Don Quixote]

GMAFB! :laugh:
The best way to make this event carbon neutral would be to drive away all the fans. Oh, wait....

[TrueBrit]

First problem is that the article referenced is from Fixed Noizze...after that all the rest automatically becomes bull****

But a big :thumbup: to Methandsausages for insulting environmentalists AND France all in one post...:shakehead

[Methanolandbrats]

First problem is that the article referenced is from Fixed Noizze...after that all the rest automatically becomes bull****

But a big :thumbup: to Methandsausages for insulting environmentalists AND France all in one post...:shakehead And a big finger to you too :shakehead

[Gnam]

from article:
Casual observers of the sport may not realize that auto racing isn’t always about keeping your foot to the floor as much as possible.
In the IRL, that's exactly what oval racing is. :shakehead

How does cutting down the Amazon rainforest to grow sugar cane for the Brazilian ethanol impact their Green score? :tony:

[opinionated ow]

F***in' ecomentalists destroying my sport :flame::flame:

[miatanut]

Yeah! Racing cars should be stuck in the stone age!

What's with this $&%#*! fuel injection stuff? Open wheelers should have carburetors, just like NASCAR. And what about this electronic ignition stuff? Real racing cars have breaker points. Disc brakes are for pussies!

:rolleyes:

[Methanolandbrats]

Yeah! Racing cars should be stuck in the stone age!

What's with this $&%#*! fuel injection stuff? Open wheelers should have carburetors, just like NASCAR. And what about this electronic ignition stuff? Real racing cars have breaker points. Disc brakes are for pussies!

:rolleyes:WTF are you talking about? Racing is about technology that makes you accelerate faster, corner harder and brake later and that leads to lower lap times. That's it. Racing is not about conserving anything including fuel, tires, money, etc..

[Insomniac]

WTF are you talking about? Racing is about technology that makes you accelerate faster, corner harder and brake later and that leads to lower lap times. That's it. Racing is not about conserving anything including fuel, tires, money, etc..

Why do you think "green" and fast are mutually exclusive?

[cameraman]

WTF are you talking about? Racing is about technology that makes you accelerate faster, corner harder and brake later and that leads to lower lap times. That's it. Racing is not about conserving anything including fuel, tires, money, etc..

He was talking about saving fuel with his foot. So in your mind no driver in a race has ever needed to conserve fuel:rolleyes: they have their foot smashed to the floor every second:shakehead. If you had actually read the article instead of pitching a hissy fit you would have noticed how he was talking about saving gasoline in a conventional car merely by altering your driving style. You know the skill that can win a race.

[miatanut]

WTF are you talking about? Racing is about technology that makes you accelerate faster, corner harder and brake later and that leads to lower lap times. That's it. Racing is not about conserving anything including fuel, tires, money, etc..

Racing is about covering the specified distance in the shortest time. In some forms, it is about covering the greatest distance in the specified time.

Some kinds of racing involve automobiles. These kinds or racing also involve large rule books. Some allow turbos, some don't. Some use air restrictors, some don't. Some have funky pit stop or tire rules, some don't. Some specify methanol, some prohibit it. The competitors are all trying to go as fast as they can within the rules.

The IRL competitors are all trying to accelerate the fastest, corner the hardest, and brake the latest within their rules package. Personally I don't find it compelling racing and I'd much rather see a series with gravity re-fueling rigs through a small restrictor together with completely open engine rules and no minimum wight, so everybody can make their own decisions how much fuel they want to carry, how much fuel they want to burn, trading that off against how much time they are going to spend sitting in the pit refueling.

Green in a manner, but a lot more interesting racing than what we have now. If for you it's all about accelerating the fastest, cornering the hardest and braking the latest, than you can be happy with the IRL. I'd prefer something with more technical competition and if it involves better fuel efficiency, I'd call that a win-win situation because it's something which could lead to benefits to road cars.

[oddlycalm]

“All the crew members and all of the mechanics, they’re not happy about it..."

Really, now there's a shocker... :rofl:

oc

[Methanolandbrats]

in If for you it's all about accelerating the fastest, cornering the hardest and braking the latest, than you can be happy with the IRL. Uh ok. :saywhat:

[Brickman]

Spotted

http://walterzoomiesworld.blogspot.com/

[Gnam]

Nellie Phillips mania!

[Walter Zoomie]

http://www.steveindian.com/Squadbay/Smileys/default/cry.gif

I'm sorry.

:gomer:

[dando]

Spotted

http://walterzoomiesworld.blogspot.com/

The new Pressdog?

-Kevin

[cameraman]

My God those are hideous looking sleds:eek:

[dando]

My God those are hideous looking sleds:eek:

No offense to hideous or sleds intended I'm sure. :tony:

Nellie's paint scheme reminded me of the movie Roxanne. :gomer: :D

-Kevin

[FCYTravis]

CART had fuel economy rules from the very beginning.

You got exactly enough methanol to finish the race at an average of 1.8 miles per gallon. Not a drop more.

What would be wrong about bringing that back and tightening it to, say, 2.5 or 3.0?

[G.]

The new Pressdog?

-Kevin

Nah, different breed altogether, and I think Zoomie's been doing it a bit longer.

Zoomie's alright for a PlaceFan.

Maybe.

That's what I think.

Z:tony::tony:MIE!

WZ, don't forget, mockery is the sincerest form of f*** you.

:p

[Walter Zoomie]

Actually, I think PressDog has been covering racing since 2005. My schtick came along about a year later. I must give the guy his propers. Besides, his deal is kinda like real news, sometimes, and he probably actually makes money from his thing. He sorta has real talent, while me, not so much...

My stuff is just dorky BS to pass the time.

But thanks anyways.

Kinda.

[oddlycalm]

My stuff is just dorky BS to pass the time.

But thanks anyways.

Kinda.

The old ads get high style points from the Bulgarian judge. :thumbup:

oc

[miatanut]

CART had fuel economy rules from the very beginning.

You got exactly enough methanol to finish the race at an average of 1.8 miles per gallon. Not a drop more.

What would be wrong about bringing that back and tightening it to, say, 2.5 or 3.0?

Lots of people bitched about the "fuel economy runs."

Something a bit more open, where everybody could make their own decisions about where they wanted to be on fuel economy vs speed could improve mileage and be a little more subtle about it. Cool thing would be, if they cranked it up enough, open wheel slipstreaming would come back. :thumbup:

[shaggy_socal]

Interesting...didn't Philippe basically say F*** Tony George at the CC Finale yet now he's driving in the Indy 500.
Either he was pandering to a pro-CC crowd or the saying is true, "Money Talks. BullS**** Walks."

I'd prefer it if the following saying was practived more often.
"Say what you mean, mean what you say and don't be mean when you say it."

BTW, the livery is hideous to behold yet you just can't seem to take your eyes off of it.

[FCYTravis]

Lots of people bitched about the "fuel economy runs."
Lots of people will bitch about anything. I seem to recall the racing back then being about 10x better than anything we've seen for close to a decade. Different strategies playing out, drivers running out of fuel on the last lap, huge leads disappearing in the space of two laps as the driver behind turned up the mixture...

Arie Luyendyk won two mile oval races in '91 (Phoenix and Nazareth), and damned if those weren't two ridiculously exciting races to watch, as all of a sudden it became apparent that Vince Granatelli and Arie had outfoxed the whole field by stretching the fuel loads beyond what anyone else could do.

Speed differentials create passing. When the drivers had more options to create speed differentials naturally (fuel mixture, turbo boost, fuel loads, pit strategy) you saw more passing. The whole ridiculous "push to pass" thing is a (failed) attempt to artificially replace those options. All of those options were dependent on strategy, skill, mechanical sympathy and luck — the only element of P2P is who pushes the button when.

[miatanut]

Lots of people will bitch about anything. I seem to recall the racing back then being about 10x better than anything we've seen for close to a decade. Different strategies playing out, drivers running out of fuel on the last lap, huge leads disappearing in the space of two laps as the driver behind turned up the mixture...

Arie Luyendyk won two mile oval races in '91 (Phoenix and Nazareth), and damned if those weren't two ridiculously exciting races to watch, as all of a sudden it became apparent that Vince Granatelli and Arie had outfoxed the whole field by stretching the fuel loads beyond what anyone else could do.

Speed differentials create passing. When the drivers had more options to create speed differentials naturally (fuel mixture, turbo boost, fuel loads, pit strategy) you saw more passing. The whole ridiculous "push to pass" thing is a (failed) attempt to artificially replace those options. All of those options were dependent on strategy, skill, mechanical sympathy and luck — the only element of P2P is who pushes the button when.

I agree with you. Methanolandbrats won't agree with you. I remember there being a lot of people who saw it like Methanolandbrats.

[dando]

Lots of people will bitch about anything. I seem to recall the racing back then being about 10x better than anything we've seen for close to a decade. Different strategies playing out, drivers running out of fuel on the last lap, huge leads disappearing in the space of two laps as the driver behind turned up the mixture...

Arie Luyendyk won two mile oval races in '91 (Phoenix and Nazareth), and damned if those weren't two ridiculously exciting races to watch, as all of a sudden it became apparent that Vince Granatelli and Arie had outfoxed the whole field by stretching the fuel loads beyond what anyone else could do.

Speed differentials create passing. When the drivers had more options to create speed differentials naturally (fuel mixture, turbo boost, fuel loads, pit strategy) you saw more passing. The whole ridiculous "push to pass" thing is a (failed) attempt to artificially replace those options. All of those options were dependent on strategy, skill, mechanical sympathy and luck — the only element of P2P is who pushes the button when.

Fuel econo wins were OK when there were different engine and chassis combos. Once it became a one engine/chassis combo, P2P was the only way to go to spice things up. Remember Belle Isle or Mad Max running out of gas @ MIS or Rahal being dogged by PT @ Brazil? Those were amazing races that were won on fuel/pit strategy/luck. Even Mad Max winning @ Portland was a decent fuel win.

-Kevin

[miatanut]

As well as being the team's engineering chief Lisles oversees the budget at NHL so he's very well acquainted with the financial limits in Indy car racing today. But like many of us Lisles despises spec car racing and would like to see the sport take a fresh leap into developing 21st century technology.

"I think it would be a tremendous thing to actually have a chance to make a giant step for relevance for motor racing," Lisles ruminates. "Historically, motor racing has always been about going faster than the other guy and making it last for whatever the duration of the race is. Motor racing started because manufacturers wanted to prove that their car was either faster or more reliable than other manufacturers. Today, reliability in racing is a given. We don't really need to prove that anymore.

"Today, we know how to go fast and how to be reliable and a lot of people feel racing should be about efficient use of energy. Quite how you make that into something that's appealing to the public is a difficult question. The perception is that the public will only get interested in an event where there's wheel-to-wheel, man-on-man combat, which if you look back historically is not how motor racing has ever been.

"Certainly Indianapolis used to be filled with some of the world's most boring races but the fans still came. Part of the excitement was not the man-to-man, wheel-to-wheel racing but the fact that somebody was leading in this powerful or different car that might not make it to the end. Some of the excitement was, is it going to hang together and make it to the end? But today I think everybody's got locked into the thought that you have to have wheel-to-wheel racing.

"If they want to make racing something other than a spectacle, which is how it's evolving, even in Formula 1, then we need to choose a challenge which is worthwhile. What we need to prove is that we can go faster for longer with the same amount of energy than the other guy. Obviously, your engine and the fuel you use is a primary part of that but some quite powerful secondary parts are the aerodynamics and the weight of the vehicle. Weight is not so important at Indianapolis or many oval races because you don't slow and accelerate as much, but it's very important at short ovals and all road tracks and street courses."

Lisles's perspective is shared by leading, forward-thinking automobile manufacturers like Audi and Porsche who use motor racing as a showcase for their engineering. Guys like Dr. Wolfgang Ullrich at Audi and Dr. Thomas Laudenbach at Porsche have said to me repeatedly in recent years that their overall goal in going racing is to achieve better all-round efficiency from cleaner-burning fuel and better combustion to lighter overall weight of the entire car and its components. If the IRL wants to attract any of the Porsche Group's brands it surely will have to go in this direction. For his part, Lisles would also like to see the IRL move to lighter, more modern chassis as well as more fuel-efficient engines.

"We've tackled safety by mandating some substantial structures rather than doing much crash-testing," he observed. "Formula 1 do it the other way. They have a lot of crash-testing and the structure is up to you. That is expensive, of course, but it's the only way you can get a light structure that is also safe. The alternative way is to make something very big and beefy that is so big and strong that even if you don't execute very well it's still up to the job. But that's not a very efficient use of resources.

"Building a light chassis is not only good for the efficiency of the car in the big picture, it's probably good for the efficiency of the materials used to build it. Total life efficiency and cost is what we should all be striving for. For most engineers efficiency is one of the things they get excited about. Elegant efficiency is what most creative engineers get a big kick out of.

"It's the challenge that counts," Lisles continued. "And the point is racing was built as a showcase that you could meet the challenge better than your competitor and the challenge used to be about speed and reliability. Reliability is not a challenge anymore and within reason speed isn't either. But efficient use of energy under various circumstances certainly is a challenge that has yet to be fully understood and exploited, and of course, how you deal with all that is part of the challenge for the rulemakers."

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2009/the_way_it_is_no186.html

Music to my ears! :thumbup:

[mueber]

Of course they could enter the ALMS.