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View Full Version : Goodyear still building one helluva tire!



cart7
07-27-08, 03:41 PM
:rofl:

Competition yellows every ten laps, if they can even make it that far.. What a disgrace. Will Goodyear have to refund all the ticket holders for this farce?

Insomniac
07-27-08, 03:56 PM
How do you mess up a spec tire? Did they even practice with these tires?

Insomniac
07-27-08, 03:58 PM
What race had fans throwing crap onto the track? Wasn't it the F1 race? Did that ever happen at a NASCAR race?

Accipiter
07-27-08, 03:59 PM
Whatever they are paying NASCAR for the privilege of being the sole tire supplier isn't enough, and whatever they are charging the teams for them is too much. :rolleyes:

TKGAngel
07-27-08, 04:15 PM
I'm shocked at all the aluminum that's showing in the frontstretch grandstands.

Is this just a perfect storm of Goodyear tire problems, the CoT and the diamond grinding of the Speedway?

dando
07-27-08, 04:52 PM
What race had fans throwing crap onto the track? Wasn't it the F1 race? Did that ever happen at a NASCAR race?

Tallydega when Gordon beat E Jr a few years back, but only after the race was over.

What a load of BS this 'race' is...should be renamed the BS400. I've been listening while running some errands, and it seems like every 15 minutes there's a comp yellow. Brilliant! Since when did Michelin start designing and building tires for Crapyear? :saywhat: :irked:

-Kevin

devilmaster
07-27-08, 05:44 PM
actually, you don't see it often or hear about it, but many nascrap races has fans throwing stuff on the track after the race. I just happened to catch the end of one race and (iirc) kyle busch won - he stopped to get the checker flag and for a brief glance you saw drinks hitting the track near the car.

Accipiter
07-27-08, 05:59 PM
Fans throwing cans won a race for Jr. this year.

cart7
07-27-08, 06:18 PM
Hamlin had a beer can stuck in the radiator inlet with around 20 to go today. It appears the fans don't need to wait to the end.

Racing Truth
07-27-08, 07:12 PM
I'm shocked at all the aluminum that's showing in the frontstretch grandstands.

Is this just a perfect storm of Goodyear tire problems, the CoT and the diamond grinding of the Speedway?

Mostly Goodyear not taking the COT into account. Awful.

That was an embarrassment.:thumdown:

Insomniac
07-27-08, 07:24 PM
I was watching SportsCenter. Those guys were tripping over themselves praising NASCAR. And were amazed that owners like Gibbs and Hendrick weren't angry and ripping on NASCAR. Why do you even bother running the entire race?

oddlycalm
07-27-08, 07:30 PM
As it happens this has nothing to do with tire companies NASCAR or F1 and everything to do with an IMS management decision. :tony:

When the IMS decided to diamond grind grooves in the pavement of the track surface, something commonly done on highways to make them less slippery, they clearly didn't consider whether that would result in an appropriate surface for a race track. As we have all observed, it does not.

Diamond grinding roll
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/PAVEMENT/images/dg004.jpg

Pavement surface before/after
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/PAVEMENT/images/dg005.jpg

Profile diagram
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/PAVEMENT/images/dg007.gif

It's not just the sharp edges of the lands that cause damage to the tires, it's the fracturing of the aggregate in the surface that results in ultra sharp points on those stones. Yes, I'm aware a couple other tracks have resorted to diamond grinding, but that doesn't make it right. There have been problems on those tracks as well.

BTW, using a diamond roll to fracture and expose fresh cutting surfaces is exactly the process used to sharpen grinding wheels for high precision grinding for metal removal on bearing races, cams, cranks, etc. If that results in a surface that can efficiently cut metal that his heat treated to the range of 55-65 on the rockwell C scale how long do you think rubber is going to last....? As we have seen, not long.

IMO Dorna should be veryconcerned over what will happen with the MotoGP bikes IMS. Having a tire blow on a car is one thing, but having a tire blow on a motorcycle traveling 200mph is far worse.

oc

Insomniac
07-27-08, 07:31 PM
I thought CART/CC did a lot of stupid things:


NASCAR knew it had a problem during the two practice sessions Saturday when right-side tires were wearing down to the cords for many teams after only five or six laps on the 2.5-mile quad-oval.

...

"We selected the Pocono tire because it's the most similar to the tire we have at Indy," said Greg Stucker, Goodyear's director of racing. "The left sides are exactly the same. The right sides are slightly softer."
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/news/story?id=3507046

Racing Truth
07-27-08, 07:37 PM
As it happens this has nothing to do with tire companies NASCAR or F1 and everything to do with an IMS management decision. :tony:

When the IMS decided to diamond grind grooves in the pavement of the track surface, something commonly done on highways to make them less slippery, they clearly didn't consider whether that would result in an appropriate surface for a race track. As we have all observed, it does not.

Diamond grinding roll
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/PAVEMENT/images/dg004.jpg

Pavement surface before/after
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/PAVEMENT/images/dg005.jpg

Profile diagram
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/PAVEMENT/images/dg007.gif

It's not just the sharp edges of the lands that cause damage to the tires, it's the fracturing of the aggregate in the surface that results in ultra sharp points on those stones. Yes, I'm aware a couple other tracks have resorted to diamond grinding, but that doesn't make it right. There have been problems on those tracks as well.

BTW, using a diamond roll to fracture and expose fresh cutting surfaces is exactly the process used to sharpen grinding wheels for high precision grinding for metal removal on bearing races, cams, cranks, etc. If that results in a surface that can efficiently cut metal that his heat treated to the range of 55-65 on the rockwell C scale how long do you think rubber is going to last....? As we have seen, not long.

IMO Dorna should be veryconcerned over what will happen with the MotoGP bikes IMS. Having a tire blow on a car is one thing, but having a tire blow on a motorcycle traveling 200mph is far worse.

oc

No, no, no. Track was last ground in '06. No problems, like this, until today. No major tire issues this May (cautions were for crappy driving), or since '06. Indycars= no problem. F1, post '05= no problem.

What changed? COT, and Goodyear never took it into account.

WickerBill
07-27-08, 07:58 PM
Goodyear didn't take the CoT into account *and* they canceled the mandatory tire test they've always had at the Speedway until this year, from what I understand. You have a new car, why would you NOT test there? It's a 10 million dollar race -- it isn't Phoenix...

Bring in Firestone and Hoosier, live with the marbles for two years, and Goodyear will run away like they always do. Then pick one of the other companies to be exclusive. Plus, it would make NASCAR slightly less monotonous if there were a tire war. Last time Hoosier was allowed in, they won races with some pretty crappy drivers because the tires were so superior to Goodyear.

oddlycalm
07-27-08, 09:15 PM
No, no, no. Track was last ground in '06. No problems, like this, until today. No major tire issues this May (cautions were for crappy driving), or since '06. Indycars= no problem. F1, post '05= no problem.

What changed? COT, and Goodyear never took it into account.
Diamond grinding simply isn't appropriate for a race track surface. It is what you would do if the object was how to grind the rubber off the casings in the most efficient manner possible. It's a process developed for urban freeways in the rain.

If there were not tire issues in particular race all it means that on those occasions the tire engineers either erred far on the safe side of the performance vs safety equation or they got lucky.

oc

Insomniac
07-27-08, 09:40 PM
Firestone/Bridgestone have had no problems at Indy, and their tires run at higher speeds (maybe even higher loads). I doubt the surface is inadequate. Maybe not ideal, but it's been proven you can race on it all day, day after day. IMS is a quality facility and track, despite being operated by :tony:.

devilmaster
07-28-08, 12:23 AM
Last time Hoosier was allowed in, they won races with some pretty crappy drivers because the tires were so superior to Goodyear.

iirc, didn't hoosier also get stuck with having a smaller tire when they were in the series?

SurfaceUnits
07-28-08, 08:14 AM
"I would have to say this race has been blown by Goodyear," said one fan.

But for fans, the frustration was more than evident.

"Goodyear sucks - the worst race ever," said another fan.

"This competition yellow is so ridiculous, you know, it was just a waste of our money to come up here," said a fan.

"Two cautions in the last twenty laps? That is baloney," another fan said.

"This is one of the worst races I have ever been to," said a fan. "If Goodyear can't come up wtih a better than that, I think Tony George and Goodyear need to send everybody their money back."

"It's got to be Goodyear's fault," a fan said. "Why ain't they running Hoosier tires?"

According to many fans leaving the track Sunday, it will take some time to repair the tarnished image.

"Get rid of Goodyear. That was a ridiculous race," said another fan.

WickerBill
07-28-08, 08:43 AM
iirc, didn't hoosier also get stuck with having a smaller tire when they were in the series?

Having trouble finding an adequate history of the 1994ish re-entry into Winston Cup by Hoosier.

The track was ground for F1 and the potential to run in the rain, if I recall correctly. Next resurface (which might be pretty soon, considering yesterday) will restore it to the "glass tabletop" as Unser Jr. used to call it in the early 90s.

Plenty of drivers are saying the CoT doesn't have the rear downforce it needs, so the tires were sliding all day and getting torn up that way. Makes some sense, as that wouldn't happen in an OW car, and whenever loading is the real issue, it's always the right front.

Still, if Firestone were in the series and on four cars yesterday, I'd put money on those four finishing in the top five. Even if the names were Waltrip, Menard, Mears, and Sorenson.

Andrew Longman
07-28-08, 08:47 AM
Goodyear is certainly getting their money's worth out of all that NASCAR marketing. :rolleyes:

A few thoughts...

What is a normal fuel stint for Cup at IMS? I wonder how much slower you would have to go to make the tires last the full stint and if it could actually be faster than all that wrecking and pitting. It actually could have been interesting to see teams playing out differently. Fast=pit every 10 laps vs. Slow=pit every 35 laps.

Why is that track diamond ground anyway? I don't think there is another track grooved, is there?

cart7
07-28-08, 08:53 AM
I think the normal stint would've been around 30 laps or so?

You'll note most all of the cars were set-up to do that crab walking down the straights. That supposedly increases rear downforce on those cars. That can't be good for tire wear.

SteveH
07-28-08, 09:07 AM
The track was ground for F1 and the potential to run in the rain, if I recall correctly.

Wasn't it due to the botched job on the last repaving? It was not level, kind of wavy. Diamond grinding was a quick fix. I think they tried just diamond grinding the turns, didn't they?

Its not the track's fault, however that track, especially that track deserves to have a better surface than the one it currently does.

Fortunately the motorcycles won't be using the entire oval track, I hope even that won't create an issue.

emjaya
07-28-08, 09:36 AM
One of the Networks over here has the rights to NASCAR this year and has been showing the races live and in HD.. So far I've only seen part of a couple of races, the last race they held at Daytona and this one. Both times I tuned in, they were under a yellow flag. :saywhat:

I'm not sure I will bother watching a third. :yuck:

High Sided
07-28-08, 09:44 AM
hell, all this time i thought they diamond ground ims to keep the drivers awake and alert :tony:

Badger
07-28-08, 09:46 AM
As it happens this has nothing to do with tire companies NASCAR or F1 and everything to do with an IMS management decision. :tony:

When the IMS decided to diamond grind grooves in the pavement of the track surface, something commonly done on highways to make them less slippery, they clearly didn't consider whether that would result in an appropriate surface for a race track. As we have all observed, it does not.

Diamond grinding roll
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/PAVEMENT/images/dg004.jpg

Pavement surface before/after
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/PAVEMENT/images/dg005.jpg

Profile diagram
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/PAVEMENT/images/dg007.gif

It's not just the sharp edges of the lands that cause damage to the tires, it's the fracturing of the aggregate in the surface that results in ultra sharp points on those stones. Yes, I'm aware a couple other tracks have resorted to diamond grinding, but that doesn't make it right. There have been problems on those tracks as well.

BTW, using a diamond roll to fracture and expose fresh cutting surfaces is exactly the process used to sharpen grinding wheels for high precision grinding for metal removal on bearing races, cams, cranks, etc. If that results in a surface that can efficiently cut metal that his heat treated to the range of 55-65 on the rockwell C scale how long do you think rubber is going to last....? As we have seen, not long.

IMO Dorna should be veryconcerned over what will happen with the MotoGP bikes IMS. Having a tire blow on a car is one thing, but having a tire blow on a motorcycle traveling 200mph is far worse.

oc

All excellent points and I'm sure one the Goobers won't consider. While the diamond grind may have worked at other tracks, I don't recall any of the other tracks being superspeedways. Eitherway, it clearly isn't working at indy, time to repave cause the half assed fixed for the poor paving job isn't working.

Gnam
07-28-08, 12:56 PM
IMO Dorna should be veryconcerned over what will happen with the MotoGP bikes IMS. Having a tire blow on a car is one thing, but having a tire blow on a motorcycle traveling 200mph is far worse.

oc
Is the infield course also diamond ground? Did they repave it when they put the new turns in?

dando
07-28-08, 01:10 PM
Is the infield course also diamond ground? Did they repave it when they put the new turns in?

I don't believe so. The oval was ground to correct some bumps for a prior resufacing that was botched.

-Kevin

oddlycalm
07-28-08, 01:23 PM
Wasn't it due to the botched job on the last repaving? It was not level, kind of wavy. Diamond grinding was a quick fix. I think they tried just diamond grinding the turns, didn't they?

Its not the track's fault, however that track, especially that track deserves to have a better surface than the one it currently does.
I've seen pictures showing the yard of bricks diamond ground so I think it's the entire oval. The track does indeed deserve a proper racing surface. A diamond ground surface with grooves and lands is the most abrasive surface possible and isn't the right surface for racing.

For those in denial, while it is possible to hold races there and it is possible for tire companies to compensate, that doesn't change the fact that the surface is not right for a race track and in the long run it will need to be repaved again.

TG has now hosted two races where the result was major fan disappointment, the question is how many more fans does he intend to send away disappointed before he fixes a glaring flaw of his own making.

oc

SteveH
07-28-08, 02:14 PM
I've seen pictures showing the yard of bricks diamond ground so I think it's the entire oval.


Yes, I should have been more precise. The first attempt at fixing the bad paving job was to diamond grind only the turns. That resulted in too much difference between the two pavement surfaces. Finally the entire track was ground.

manic mechanic
07-29-08, 12:07 AM
Firestone/Bridgestone have had no problems at Indy, and their tires run at higher speeds (maybe even higher loads). I doubt the surface is inadequate. Maybe not ideal, but it's been proven you can race on it all day, day after day. IMS is a quality facility and track, despite being operated by :tony:.

You seem to forget that an F1 car weighs 1/3 as much, and a crapwagon weighs in at about 1/2 what a Can of Trash does.

I concur that Bridgestone/Firestone could do a better job than Goodyear given a few years lead on the development (and I install a LOT of Goodyears... Government contracts, you know)


Goodyear is certainly getting their money's worth out of all that NASCAR marketing. :rolleyes:

A few thoughts...

What is a normal fuel stint for Cup at IMS? I wonder how much slower you would have to go to make the tires last the full stint and if it could actually be faster than all that wrecking and pitting. It actually could have been interesting to see teams playing out differently. Fast=pit every 10 laps vs. Slow=pit every 35 laps.

The fuel window, iirc, was 23-28 laps. May have been a little more depending upon the fuel cell size (crews try to acheive 5 mpg, but 4.5 is more realistic).

When you pit, you need to factor in the time you are slowing down and sppeding back up as well as the time sitting still: At the "brickyard", it was an average of 50 seconds per stop with the crews hauling the mail every 10-12 laps.

Using those factors and doing the math, you would lose a lap every other time you pit under green by your strategy because the tires would only net you ~3 seconds a lap in overall speed and you would need 17 laps to gain back the lap you lost on the stop. ;)

"Dem goodyears wuz FAST fer a few laps, wuzzent they?" :laugh:

manic

emjaya
07-29-08, 09:59 AM
Tony George talks tough. Link. (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080728/SPORTS/80728067)


The track won't change next year, so if they want to come back, they better figure it out because I don't think the fans want to come back and see that."

Rogue Leader
07-29-08, 10:07 AM
Tony George talks tough. Link. (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080728/SPORTS/80728067)

I'd love NASCAR to say "well FU then" and dump the BY400. As NASCAR makes very clear to each and every one of its drivers, you are all expendable, and none of you are bigger than this sport, and if you are gone tomorrow by next week noone will even care that you are not there.

Insomniac
07-29-08, 10:47 AM
You seem to forget that an F1 car weighs 1/3 as much, and a crapwagon weighs in at about 1/2 what a Can of Trash does.

I concur that Bridgestone/Firestone could do a better job than Goodyear given a few years lead on the development (and I install a LOT of Goodyears... Government contracts, you know)

No I didn't. I don't know the downforce numbers. The curb weight doesn't matter. (In the sense that the cars are moving and the load on the tires will vary. An F1 car could probably triple its weight at top speed.)

Andrew Longman
07-29-08, 11:21 AM
I'm a little confused

They did a tire test in April

"Most", hence not all teams, gave up testing at the track two years ago when test limits were tightened, but the few who did test likely did it about two weeks ago (or earlier).

So somebody had the chance to know the tire was a problem and in fact likely did know.

But no one said anything?

So, Chitwood wants them to do full field testing next year (to help tickets sales too he says), but if that happens two weeks prior to the race that is not enough time to make adjustments to the tires and their test data will then be useless if they did. Tires are made months in advance because it takes a while to make 800 sets of tires.

Unless they do the full field testing with tires so hard they couldn't possibly wear out the only benefit would be to show fans ahead of time that they have the problem solved... which would sell tickets. OK so maybe I do get it.:gomer:

SurfaceUnits
07-29-08, 11:50 AM
Whenever it comes time to renew the contract for the Brickyard 400, please give it the USGP treatment and show the ***** the door.

I'm tired of NASCAR ruining Indy and all that it stands for while stealing it's history and playing it off as it's own. Those crappy cars should've never been allowed to cross the bricks. After today's race, I'm sure even NASCAR fans probably want the race gone. It was a joke and a disgrace to IMS.

I know money talks, but that doesn't mean you should degrade yourself and sell yourself out like a 5 dollar prostitute.

Besides, it would be a good smack in the face to ISC if one of their biggest events got taken away. In turn it would probably help your open wheel series by giving drivers less of a reason to go to NASCAR for more money. Money is one thing, but they also want to win at Indy. If they can only win at Indy in one series, that's where they're going to go.

I know you won't listen to me, but maybe you'll figure it out eventually,

-Helix-

cameraman
07-29-08, 12:22 PM
Wow:shakehead:saywhat::rolleyes:

Insomniac
07-29-08, 12:39 PM
I'm a little confused

They did a tire test in April

"Most", hence not all teams, gave up testing at the track two years ago when test limits were tightened, but the few who did test likely did it about two weeks ago (or earlier).

So somebody had the chance to know the tire was a problem and in fact likely did know.

But no one said anything?

So, Chitwood wants them to do full field testing next year (to help tickets sales too he says), but if that happens two weeks prior to the race that is not enough time to make adjustments to the tires and their test data will then be useless if they did. Tires are made months in advance because it takes a while to make 800 sets of tires.

Unless they do the full field testing with tires so hard they couldn't possibly wear out the only benefit would be to show fans ahead of time that they have the problem solved... which would sell tickets. OK so maybe I do get it.:gomer:

I was more confused. It was a test, but they brought only one tire. Then the drivers complained it didn't have enough grip. So Goodyear figured they'd just make some changes and it should work. So the tires at the test presumably lasted longer than 10 laps since no one complained the tires were being shredded.

Insomniac
07-29-08, 12:43 PM
Tony George talks tough. Link. (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080728/SPORTS/80728067)

Good for him. He's a colossal screw up for sure, but Goodyear made the crappy tires. It's not like they secretly diamond ground the track. The geniuses at Goodyear decided not to do an adequate test (despite the opportunity) with a NEW car.

Ziggy
07-29-08, 12:59 PM
The other thing that is different from the test is NASCAR is now allowing these guys to **** the rear end, moving the right rear further ahead of the left rear.

The diamond ground track is to hide a piss poor paving job.

The part that kills me are Gomers who didn't follow F1, Didn't go to the F1 race, walking around Indy for three months saying "I hope those rich faggots never come back" and "Tony should throw that ****ing Bernie Eggelston out on his ass"

Where is the outrage for NASCAR

Read Marxie all you want. The majority of fans are giving NASCAR a pass on this one.

dando
07-29-08, 01:23 PM
I was more confused. It was a test, but they brought only one tire. Then the drivers complained it didn't have enough grip. So Goodyear figured they'd just make some changes and it should work. So the tires at the test presumably lasted longer than 10 laps since no one complained the tires were being shredded.

They brought the hard compound tire for the test, and elected to go with the soft tire based on the driver's comments (hard to drive), and so they would not repeat the mistake they made @ @lanta. But they didn't test the tire they ended up bringing. Stupid is as stupid does.

-Kevin

Andrew Longman
07-29-08, 02:55 PM
A hard to drive tire might actually produce a good cup race at IMS

oddlycalm
07-29-08, 08:43 PM
Tony George talks tough.
What a jacktard. Nobody seems to notice that this is the 2nd race at IMS where the fans went away shortchanged, but it's not his track's fault....:tony: Never mind that nobody can think of a similar situation in all racing history.

As much as I'd like NASCAR to call his bluff they seem to be falling all over themselves in contrition. Robin Pemberton is going to have to use kwalty tools to pry his lips off TG's ass.

oc

opinionated ow
07-29-08, 10:18 PM
What a jacktard. Nobody seems to notice that this is the 2nd race at IMS where the fans went away shortchanged, but it's not his track's fault....:tony: Never mind that nobody can think of a similar situation in all racing history.

As much as I'd like NASCAR to call his bluff they seem to be falling all over themselves in contrition. Robin Pemberton is going to have to use kwalty tools to pry his lips off TG's ass.

oc

This isn't the first NASCAR race this season where it has happened though...

devilmaster
07-30-08, 12:50 AM
This isn't the first NASCAR race this season where it has happened though...

and honestly, this isn't the first season this has happened either. Every season the past few, there have been those races where goodyear screw the pooch and everyone complains yet they never really improve.

Even today, as I drove around, MIS was advertising seats to the august race on local sports radio. This from a track that used to easily sell out both races....

Everything ain't alright in Nascrap. But its still a hundred times better than IRL.

:shakehead

JohnHKart
07-30-08, 01:54 PM
Last time Hoosier was allowed in, they won races with some pretty crappy drivers because the tires were so superior to Goodyear.


I know what you mean...but Geoff Bodine was their only winner and was no crappy driver. Hoosier did get a lot of pole positions (such as the Daytona 500 and Brickyard 400) and top tens that otherwise those teams would not have had.

http://www.hoosiertire.com/milestones.htm

pchall
07-30-08, 04:56 PM
The other thing that is different from the test is NASCAR is now allowing these guys to **** the rear end, moving the right rear further ahead of the left rear.


Wouldn't what you describe as the RR/LR setup increase understeer since the rear would be pushing the front to the right? I thought they were trying to do the opposite with the rear to reduce the massive understeer that makes the CoT such a slug?

High Sided
08-01-08, 03:25 AM
nascar airing a 1hr explanation today....:thumdown:

6:00-7:00pm eastern

SPEED

NASCAR Confidential: What We Learned at Indy,
SPEED and NASCAR Media Group will use their exclusive access to examine, from multiple perspectives, what went on last weekend at Indianapolis Motor Speedway when dangerous and excessive tire wear took center stage, N

WickerBill
08-01-08, 06:23 AM
nascar airing a 1hr explanation today....:thumdown:

Not so sure about the thumbs down on that... open and honest is the way to go. Let's see how they do.

extramundane
08-01-08, 09:19 AM
Not so sure about the thumbs down on that... open and honest is the way to go. Let's see how they do.

But will it be open and honest, or will it be an ass-kissing parade from the broadcast team that deflects all the blame to Goodyear, IMS, Toyota, sunspots, locusts and tidal changes?

WickerBill
08-01-08, 09:55 AM
My POV is that it is entirely Goodyear's fault, and I don't think they're getting the grief they should (the car's so different! the track is flat-cornered!), so I'd be happy to see the blame shifted that way. Obviously the car is different than last year; Goodyear has had tons of tests and races in that car now and shouldn't have botched it so badly.

What it boils down to is that I've seen this happen from Goodyear too many times -- and definitely not just in NASCAR (remember Herta at Mid Ohio? Michael Andretti at Long Beach? Both cases were Goodyear tires actually being somewhat competitive for once with Firestone, but falling apart much more quickly) -- that I'd really like to see them beat down on this.

I might enjoy NASCAR more if there were a tire war. I can see a scenario where Goodyear drivers have to pit twice more per race for tires... that would shake things up.

Methanolandbrats
08-01-08, 10:59 AM
I might enjoy NASCAR more if there were a tire war. I can see a scenario where Goodyear drivers have to pit twice more per race for tires... that would shake things up.
Ain't gonna happen....Hoosier sealed that deal.

Insomniac
08-01-08, 11:38 AM
Ain't gonna happen....Hoosier sealed that deal.

Besides, Goodyear probably pays good money to make a crappy tire. :D

Andrew Longman
08-01-08, 07:00 PM
My POV is that it is entirely Goodyear's fault,

That's true and you can't make me an apologist for Goodyear, but by way of context, being the tire supplier for Goodyear isn't all its cracked up to be.

Supplying 800 tires a weekend, plus Nationwide, plus Trucks is a huge burden. It is a major undertaking for them. Making a great tire has no benefits, given the lack of competition, the only incentive is to make a tire that doesn't suck at the lowest cost.

Given that they are getting killed in a competitive market, the cost pressures are even greater. Their only hope is to sell to people who will never buy Yokahamas, Michelins, Toyos and Dunlops. And to do it cheaply.

The fact that they skip a test or take too much risk on getting the tire right is not right, but not unexpected given the circumstances

Insomniac
08-02-08, 11:20 AM
That's true and you can't make me an apologist for Goodyear, but by way of context, being the tire supplier for Goodyear isn't all its cracked up to be.

Supplying 800 tires a weekend, plus Nationwide, plus Trucks is a huge burden. It is a major undertaking for them. Making a great tire has no benefits, given the lack of competition, the only incentive is to make a tire that doesn't suck at the lowest cost.

Given that they are getting killed in a competitive market, the cost pressures are even greater. Their only hope is to sell to people who will never buy Yokahamas, Michelins, Toyos and Dunlops. And to do it cheaply.

The fact that they skip a test or take too much risk on getting the tire right is not right, but not unexpected given the circumstances

Maybe they don't need to make a high performance tire, but come on, they can at least make a tire that works. Cost pressures in the tire market? At least on passenger cars, their tires aren't exactly cheap.