A question for any American who wants to answer

[opinionated ow]

First I'm not passing judgement. Let me make that clear. Apparently a bloke called Robert Ballou who is a gun sprintcar driver in Indiana didn't stop or something during the national anthem at some random speedway. My question is is this sort of reaction normal, or over the top reaction from a small bunch of people?

http://indianaopenwheel.com/vmessageboard/showthread.php?t=6126

[TravelGal]

OK, I'll give it a go. It's almost a politically charged answer. MANY people would be offended but not everyone would go off quite as much as those posters. Some would go off much more. Given the ripping a lot of people get on OW boards these days, I thought it was a pretty tame discussion.

I know if I saw that I'd think, "What the heck is he doing?" and shake my head in disapproval.

[opinionated ow]

OK, I'll give it a go. It's almost a politically charged answer. MANY people would be offended but not everyone would go off quite as much as those posters. Some would go off much more. Given the ripping a lot of people get on OW boards these days, I thought it was a pretty tame discussion.

I know if I saw that I'd think, "What the heck is he doing?" and shake my head in disapproval.

ta. i was just curious.

[trish]

I think it's a normal reaction from small people. Sure it wasn't proper etiquette to ignore the anthem, but it's nothing to hang anyone over. Is this a pattern for this guy or was this a one time faux pas? This flag and anthem business is getting close to idol worship, and that is strictly against my religion. Seriously, how many times must a person prove or pledge allegiance to their country?

[emjaya]

I think it's a normal reaction from small people. Sure it wasn't proper etiquette to ignore the anthem, but it's nothing to hang anyone over. Is this a pattern for this guy or was this a one time faux pas? This flag and anthem business is getting close to idol worship, and that is strictly against my religion. Seriously, how many times must a person prove or pledge allegiance to their country?

Reading though the thread, it seems a combination of not being able to hear the PA very well in the infield and Ballou having his race head on and not realizing the anthem was being sung (and not very well, apparently :gomer:).

[eiregosod]

only in indiana

[grungex]

Clearly he should be shot, then hung. :irked:

[dando]

Back in the mid-90s Mahoud Abdul-Rauf (aka: Chris Jackson) caused quite a stir and received a suspension from the NBA for not acknowledging the National Anthem before an NBA game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abdul-Rauf

The reaction today would likely be considerably worse considering the mood in the country post-9/11 (albeit the wave of patriotism has weakened as the years have passed).

Like all countries, we have our extremists both ways. I wouldn't say this reaction is the norm, but the vocal minority. Personally, if I see someone who doesn't remove their hat during the anthem, I'll point it out to them, but that's about it.

-Kevin

[RusH]

Extreme nationalism, a common thing when a country is going down the drain.

I didn`t know El Kabong posted there?:gomer:

[Sean Malone]

I don't really understand the question. Is the question simply, does the general population of Americans agree with the posters on said message board who disagree with the driver who ignored the national anthem? Is the question specifically aimed at OffCamber members and what our opinion is? Is this really a larger question about national pride in America?

What is the issue at hand? I glanced at the first page of the link (it took about three minutes to load) and didn't see anything obnoxious or outrageously over the top.

I've been going to quite a few pro baseball games this past year (go Rays!) and people always respect the national anthem. Sure there are always the group of young boys who fidget and joke around during the anthem, but they still stand and still take their hats off. People talk through it. The people in the concourse in line for beer don't turn and remove their hats but that's fine.
American pride has always been the fabric of our society, except when it comes to buying cars and shopping at Wal-'made in China' Mart. :D

[opinionated ow]

I don't really understand the question. Is the question simply, does the general population of Americans agree with the posters on said message board who disagree with the driver who ignored the national anthem? Is the question specifically aimed at OffCamber members and what our opinion is? Is this really a larger question about national pride in America?

What is the issue at hand? I glanced at the first page of the link (it took about three minutes to load) and didn't see anything obnoxious or outrageously over the top.

I've been going to quite a few pro baseball games this past year (go Rays!) and people always respect the national anthem. Sure there are always the group of young boys who fidget and joke around during the anthem, but they still stand and still take their hats off. People talk through it. The people in the concourse in line for beer don't turn and remove their hats but that's fine.
American pride has always been the fabric of our society, except when it comes to buying cars and shopping at Wal-'made in China' Mart. :D

Just trying to ascertain how significant a cultural aspect the national anthem is-to put in perspective whether that reaction was over the top. FWIW OC's are some of the most balanced web posters there are, always a good yardstick for anything.

[KLang]

Just trying to ascertain how significant a cultural aspect the national anthem is-to put in perspective whether that reaction was over the top. FWIW OC's are some of the most balanced web posters there are, always a good yardstick for anything.

I think most of us were brought up to respect the flag and national anthem. Not sure if that is something unique to Americans.

This isn't something recent either. Remember the uproar over the Olympic gold winners in track lounging around during the national anthem? That was probably 20 years ago.

[TKGAngel]

American pride has always been the fabric of our society

But when American pride heads in a different direction than most people are used to, it can also get ugly.

When the Sabres played their outdoor hockey game this past January, there was quite a ruckus afterwards that the national anthem wasn't sung. After the traditional singing of "O Canada," Irish Tenor Ronan Tynan sang "God Bless America."

Based on newspaper letters to the editor and assorted message board postings, you would've thought that the team had burned the American flag at center ice. Never mind the fact that the country was still being honored through the singing of "God Bless America," the fact that it wasn't the anthem had a lot of people in a snit.

[nrc]

But when American pride heads in a different direction than most people are used to, it can also get ugly.

When the Sabres played their outdoor hockey game this past January, there was quite a ruckus afterwards that the national anthem wasn't sung. After the traditional singing of "O Canada," Irish Tenor Ronan Tynan sang "God Bless America."

I find that irritating. Not letter to the editor irritating, just rude and disrespectful. Performing one country's anthem and then opting for something else for another country is disrespectful - particularly when you're a guest from another country.

In general I'd like to see those who are offended by the anthem's "war-like imagery" dropped into 1770's New England and let them try to find their way back to their two ton hybrid SUV and McMansion in the suburbs without bloodying the noses of a few tyrants along the way.

(Yes, I know the anthem is from 1812 - just going back to the beginning of our history as a bunch of brawlers.)

[Indy]

I guess that Kabonger guy gets around!


Seriously, OOW, I think this falls under the same subject as the way people treat soldiers. My personal opinion on the Iraq war, for example, has nothing to do with the respect I show for people who serve their country. Similarly, the Anthem here is a way to show respect for one's country, regardless of ideology.

[TKGAngel]

I find that irritating. Not letter to the editor irritating, just rude and disrespectful. Performing one country's anthem and then opting for something else for another country is disrespectful - particularly when you're a guest from another country.

In general I'd like to see those who are offended by the anthem's "war-like imagery" dropped into 1770's New England and let them try to find their way back to their two ton hybrid SUV and McMansion in the suburbs without bloodying the noses of a few tyrants along the way.

(Yes, I know the anthem is from 1812 - just going back to the beginning of our history as a bunch of brawlers.)

To be fair, the Sabres sing "O Canada" before every game due to Buffalo's closeness to the Canadian border. Tynan pops in a couple of times a year to sing "God Bless America" before a few games. Surprisingly enough, this wasn't a problem until the team was on national TV.

And do people really have a problem with the war-like imagery of the anthem?

[pchall]

Some Americans get terribly confused about the difference between patriotism and fanaticism. This place is full of fanatics who will look at you cross-eyed if you don't have a flag pin in your lapel and a yellow ribbon magnet on your car.:shakehead


And do people really have a problem with the war-like imagery of the anthem?

The anthem is a product of its times. No problem for me. On the other hand, I work in an environment where if I assign Alexander Pope's "Essay on Man" in a survey course, hypercorrect little weasel students will insist that I substitute "humankind" for man or mankind during discussion.

[Michaelhatesfans]

Sadly, I've seen it firsthand. There was a dirt track not far from where I grew up, and we'd go out a couple of time per summer. I vividly remember some redneck throwing a punch at someone who, for whatever reason, didn't remove his hat during the anthem. The fight spilled across everyone around them in the grandstand, kids included.

It was like a Monty Python sketch.
"People died for our freedoms - take off your hat!"
"What about the freedom to leave your hat on if you want to?"
WHACK!

To answer the original question, every nation has their pin-heads, it's just that for whatever reason, ours seem to be bit louder.

[Andrew Longman]

This isn't something recent either. Remember the uproar over the Olympic gold winners in track lounging around during the national anthem? That was probably 20 years ago.

You're not referring to the black relay team raising a gloved fist in Mexico, 1968?

I doubt it but I don't recall what you describe.

Anyway, I've seen a marked difference since the First Gulf War and especially after 9/11.

It certainly differed regionally, but I recall a general sense of apathy at games and races prior to that. Few would pause in the beer line to remove their hat or delay their purchase. If you were actually in the stands, you would stand and remove your hat. But football players if they notice the song at all were often not standing still and singing but rather fidgeting and muttering something about the opponent.

The flap about "God Bless America" in Buffalo astounds me (sorry Boss), because the presumed requirement is to sing a patriotic song and in the 1970 Kate Smith revitalized her fame and the that song by singing it before Flyers games. I'm not sure but I think they still may there.

Anyway, after 9/11 Americans became slightly mentally ill about such things (not that I aim to trivialize the importance of the gesture) and now the litmus test for a president is whether he will wear a flag pin

[oddlycalm]

What popped into my mind was M. Schumacher getting hauled up short at Ferrari for goofing on the podium during the playing of the Italian anthem after a couple of his wins.

oc

[G.]

See devilmasyer's posted vid in the 64 years thread.