View Full Version : Even Bob Kravitz admits the magic is long gone
The AP story in my morning paper had little of interest to say about Pole Day, so I decided to check out the Star, which once upon a time (and pre-internet) was practically the journal of record for US motorsports. Needless to say I found Kravitz's intro interesting,
Battling for pole not worth the risk
Remember when winning the Indianapolis 500 pole was a really big deal? Remember when drivers put heart and soul (and other body parts) on the line and risked everything for a chance to win the prize money and the attention that comes with starting on the pole?
Maybe the pole doesn't matter much anymore.
Maybe it's the new format, which gives drivers so many chances to qualify.
Maybe the $100,000 in prize money just doesn't inspire go-for-glory bravery any more.
There's no good way to explain why the final hour of Saturday's pole day, normally the wildest and most unpredictable of the day, turned into an absolute snoozefest. Take away Dan Wheldon's failed late-minute run at his Target/Chip Ganassi teammate Scott Dixon, and the affair was devoid of suspense.
As time was expiring on pole day, the question was this: Where is everybody? More specifically, does anybody really want the pole?
Guess I didn't miss much. Makes me think back to when Pole Day was a ritual for me -- mostly involving washing and waxing my dad's (and later my) car while listening to WIBC coverage all day whenever I lived someplace my old Grundig World Receiver could pull in the station.
Yesterday I listened to the Reds and Mets day/night doubleheader while doing some yard work.
B3RACER1a
05-11-08, 11:51 PM
I enjoyed listening to them call Mario Dominguez "Roberto Dominguez" all day on the radio. :shakehead
Rogue Leader
05-12-08, 07:54 AM
I DVR'd it... all like 6 hours... I proceeded to watch like 20 minutes, mostly on fast forward... then I gave up and watched a movie. I tried to give a s****, but I still dont....
Napoleon
05-12-08, 08:09 AM
Pole day? For what? I spent the weekend in the yard since nothing was on TV.
Insomniac
05-12-08, 08:23 AM
I never watched or listened to pole day before. But 6 hours to qualify 13 cars? What a waste of time for "tradition". Compact Indy like the schedule. We have ADD.
Sean Malone
05-12-08, 09:26 AM
I DVR'd it... all like 6 hours... I proceeded to watch like 20 minutes, mostly on fast forward... then I gave up and watched a movie. I tried to give a s****, but I still dont....
That's what I did too.
opinionated ow
05-12-08, 09:40 AM
I never watched or listened to pole day before. But 6 hours to qualify 13 cars? What a waste of time for "tradition". Compact Indy like the schedule. We have ADD.
the problem is the change of format. originally it was fine (espcially when people wanted to take part...)
Sean O'Gorman
05-12-08, 09:42 AM
I was watching while I was excercising Saturday afternoon. The TV layout sucks. I felt like I was watching the NFL draft there was so much crap on the screen.
Wheel-Nut
05-12-08, 09:52 AM
I never watched or listened to pole day before. But 6 hours to qualify 13 cars? What a waste of time for "tradition". Compact Indy like the schedule. We have ADD.
Only 11 cars are qualified.
Don Quixote
05-12-08, 10:06 AM
Couldn't even force myself to watch. The thrill has been gone for a long, long time.
Sean Malone
05-12-08, 10:09 AM
There seemed to be a decent crowd. Couldn't quite tell how many fans in the stands had red hats though.
They need a new car.
Corner5
05-12-08, 10:23 AM
There seemed to be a decent crowd. Couldn't quite tell how many fans in the stands had red hats though.
They need a new car.
The crowd was weak, hardly worth opening the doors for. Qualifying only 11 cars is stupid. Indy is just another Irl race with a few more cars added that don't have a chance.
Sean Malone
05-12-08, 10:27 AM
The crowd was weak, hardly worth opening the doors for. Qualifying only 11 cars is stupid. Indy is just another Irl race with a few more cars added that don't have a chance.
How were the tenderloins though? Did you see the big D?
We took Mrs. Elmo out for Mother's Day so I DVR'd the broadcast between the two channels.
I tried to run through it, but I we didn't make it very far. The screen was way to busy. The kids wanted to see the McDonald's car and to see Helio and Danica did... other than that zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Andrew Longman
05-12-08, 10:30 AM
Crowd was estimated at 40K
I had it on and off on Saturday while doing stuff. I knew that none of it really mattered until the last hour when it cools off. It's always that way, unless rain is coming.
I actually sat down to watch it sometime during the last hour and promptly fell asleep. Trevor woke me up for the last 5 minutes or so.
The other issue is the cars are too identical and they run too much downforce. There is very little a driver can do to "hang it out" and there is too little the team can do to the car to find new speed. You know only about six cars have done the windtunnel work to get another .005 out of the car. Beyond that, the driver has to hit the marks for 10 miles (not an easy task, but not like it used to be)
Corner5
05-12-08, 10:33 AM
Here's more from Indystar-
More than water goes down the drain
Steve Ballard
Posted: May 12, 2008
Another day of rain Sunday at Indianapolis Motor Speedway was another day of money going out with none coming in for track president Joie Chitwood.
"When it rains and we're all staffed up with no customers, that's not a good feeling. Those numbers aren't what we'd like to see," Chitwood said during a steady drizzle that resulted in the second round of Indianapolis 500 qualifying being washed out.
"You have to staff and prepare like it's going to be a full day of activity. It's never fun, but you learn to deal with it because it's May and I've never seen a May in Indianapolis without rain."
Chitwood and chief steward Brian Barnhart work closely and decide when to declare a rainout. On Sunday, that decision came at noon, when qualifying was supposed to start.
This year has been unduly hard on Chitwood's bottom line. The track never opened for practice Wednesday and Thursday, and Friday's six-hour session was cut in half by rain.
All reasonable efforts are made to dry the track. That starts with a fleet of trucks making laps to knock off the water. Then jet dryers are used to finish the job. All that takes fuel.
"You watch 'em going around all day and think, 'OK, time to go fill 'em up,' " Chitwood said. "We went through a couple thousand gallons of fuel in the jet dryers Saturday (morning to get the track ready for pole day). At $4 a gallon . . . " He didn't need to finish the sentence.
As well as being a drain on revenue, the lost days also are a drain emotionally. Chitwood joked that he envies the Indianapolis Colts and Indiana Pacers for having roofs over their heads.
"The rainy days are a lot more draining than when we have activity," he said. "We're dealing with things like grass parking lots that you lose when it rains.
Corner5
05-12-08, 10:34 AM
Crowd was estimated at 40K
I had it on and off on Saturday while doing stuff. I knew that none of it really mattered until the last hour when it cools off. It's always that way, unless rain is coming.
I actually sat down to watch it sometime during the last hour and promptly fell asleep. Trevor woke me up for the last 5 minutes or so.
The other issue is the cars are too identical and they run too much downforce. There is very little a driver can do to "hang it out" and there is too little the team can do to the car to find new speed. You know only about six cars have done the windtunnel work to get another .005 out of the car. Beyond that, the driver has to hit the marks for 10 miles (not an easy task, but not like it used to be)
Yea and Cavin said 30k, it was more like 20k.
TKGAngel
05-12-08, 10:47 AM
About the only entertaining moment of the coverage was watching Eddie Cheever rag on Scott Goodyear for passing the pace car in 1995.
I wasted my time golfing Sat, not watching this shizzle. I did flip on the coverage close to 7 when the interviewed Dixon, and saw that they had two boobs in the booth with Marty Reid. :yuck: Quals just don't mean jack anymore. :thumdown:
-Kevin
The other issue is the cars are too identical and they run too much downforce. There is very little a driver can do to "hang it out" and there is too little the team can do to the car to find new speed. You know only about six cars have done the windtunnel work to get another .005 out of the car. Beyond that, the driver has to hit the marks for 10 miles (not an easy task, but not like it used to be)
Ding ding ding! (Rumor has it JPM's g-ma was cruising the garages looking for a ride.)
In the Evil Days of CART team domination at Indy a good weather pole day like Saturday with a dismal forecast for Sunday and the end of the next week would have provided plenty of track action. Almost everybody would have run and taken a time just in case there wouldn't be another chance. As is, with only 11 starting positions at stake and the implicit guarantee of at least two more chances to make attempts for the other 2 groups of 11, nobody cared.
I never watched or listened to pole day before. But 6 hours to qualify 13 cars? What a waste of time for "tradition". Compact Indy like the schedule. We have ADD.
Andrew Longman
05-12-08, 02:46 PM
As is, with only 11 starting positions at stake and the implicit guarantee of at least two more chances to make attempts for the other 2 groups of 11, nobody cared.
No kidding. I saw several interviews with lesser teams who said flat out they were waiting to another day to qualify. From practice times they knew they were not in the top 11 and there is no point using up fuel, tires and engine hours and risking wadding up the car.
Instead, better to just hang around and take in the pageantry. :gomer:
oddlycalm
05-12-08, 03:12 PM
Add to all the aforementioned reasons the fact that for most of the cars it's going to be a fuel economy run for most teams. Why kill your car or your driver trying to get to the front of the grid only to set the car on fuel position SLOW by lap three? TG has succeeded in producing the most boring oval track racing format in history which is saying quite a lot considered the endless NASCAR drones that inevitably lead up to a late FCY and a sprint to the finish.
A 500 mile (nominal) race was a big deal back when it tested the machines. That ship sailed several decades ago and these days there are more 500 mile races than I care to count. Snore.
oc
Ray Scar
05-12-08, 04:54 PM
A 500 mile (nominal) race was a big deal back when it tested the machines. That ship sailed several decades ago and these days there are more 500 mile races than I care to count. Snore.
oc
Eggzactly right. Add to that the absence of "it's a neeeeeww traaaack record"
and there is nothing compelling about it anymore.
Don Quixote
05-12-08, 05:15 PM
But this fuel saving, high downforce format gives the princess the best chance to win. That's what matters to us real race fans. :tony:
SurfaceUnits
05-12-08, 10:32 PM
Ding ding ding! (Rumor has it JPM's g-ma was cruising the garages looking for a ride.)since she is better looking than danicle, they DQed her for unfair competition.
and the irl 500 quals gets maybe 1/10th the attendance Indy used to get and they are all claiming success?
Insomniac
05-12-08, 11:15 PM
the problem is the change of format. originally it was fine (espcially when people wanted to take part...)
That's why I said for the sake of tradition. Times change, it's pointless and not compelling. Reading about it is boring, I can't imagine how boring it is to watch.
Insomniac
05-12-08, 11:16 PM
Only 11 cars are qualified.
My mistake. I wasn't thinking hard enough while typing. :D
opinionated ow
05-12-08, 11:44 PM
That's why I said for the sake of tradition. Times change, it's pointless and not compelling. Reading about it is boring, I can't imagine how boring it is to watch.
It would be good if the IRL didn't screw it up like they have done since 2005...
As for not compelling?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Indianapolis_500#Qualifying_Chronology
that is one hell of a lot of action. They can't change the format, because when this sport grows again its going to need it...
that is one hell of a lot of action.
Action? :saywhat:
Where?
They can't change the format, because when this sport grows again its going to need it...
:saywhat: :saywhat:
indyfan31
05-13-08, 09:28 AM
It would be good if the IRL didn't screw it up like they have done since 2005...
As for not compelling?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Indianapolis_500#Qualifying_Chronology
that is one hell of a lot of action. They can't change the format, because when this sport grows again its going to need it...
"... one hell of a lot of action"? Did you actually watch it? I tried, after about 8 cars I'd had enough. the worst part was realizing everyone had 3 chances to qualify over 3 days. There's nothing compelling about watching one car at a time on the track for 3 days. It's a stupid waste of time, money and resources.
Andrew Longman
05-13-08, 09:32 AM
...the worst part was realizing everyone had 3 chances to qualify over 3 days.
Yes. It also took away the tough decision to wave-off the attempt. Is the time good enough to hold up or do I wave it off and try again? That was always part of the drama.
Insomniac
05-13-08, 12:06 PM
It would be good if the IRL didn't screw it up like they have done since 2005...
As for not compelling?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Indianapolis_500#Qualifying_Chronology
that is one hell of a lot of action. They can't change the format, because when this sport grows again its going to need it...
I must be missing something. 22 cars qualifying for 11 positions? 31 total attempts over a 6 hour period?
They can't adjust the schedule in the future? Wouldn't the original way be better than artificial bumping?
Once upon a time if you withdrew your qualified car that chassis was done for the month. The only way a chassis could attempt qualifying a second or third time was to be bumped from the field.
Now, the way I understand things go, you get to withdraw your "time" twice in each 11 car qualifying group. There are no real risks or costs to withdrawing and attempting another run for the pole these days. There are no real risks in running for a qualifying time at all since you can make three attempts with the same chassis on each of the first three qualifying days to get into the field. The action on Saturday was all contrived.
I must be missing something. 22 cars qualifying for 11 positions? 31 total attempts over a 6 hour period?
They can't adjust the schedule in the future? Wouldn't the original way be better than artificial bumping?
oddlycalm
05-13-08, 08:04 PM
The magic is gone because all of the dramatic elements have been removed and they've been gone for so long that only us gray hairs can remember what they were. In their place are empty rituals that no longer have any meaning or context.
I can tell you for certain if you had at least a dozen great drivers in the field and another dozen qualified journeymen with multiple car/engine combinations that were hotly contesting the grid spots and there were actual consequences to withdrawing your car, you wouldn't be able to rip race fans away from it.
It's not impossible to fix, but I'm not holding my breath for the pusillanimous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qyHS4met7c)douche bags in charge to do it.
oc
pusillanimous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qyHS4met7c)
Dude! If only my English teachers in hi school looked like that. :D ;)
hot for teacher
Now I've gotta wonder what oc's doing looking for the word of the day slut. ;)
:gomer:
-Kevin
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