View Full Version : Much troubled airliner
The Boeing hits just keep coming... literally. Ok, it wasn't a 737 Max, but it isn't a good look.
Tire falls off United flight departing SFO, crushing several vehicles in parking lot, company says (https://abc7news.com/flight-emergency-sfo-tire-falls-from-united-airlines-to-osaka-35/14500843/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-py_ujeNhaE
1236
Another hit, pretty sure it isn't a Boeing issue though
United-operated Boeing 737 MAX rolls off Houston runway, says FAA (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/united-operated-boeing-737-rolls-off-houston-runway-passengers-deplaned-says-faa-2024-03-08/)
also this
On Monday, a United Boeing 737 bound for Florida departing Houston returned to the airport shortly after takeoff after the engine ingested some plastic bubble wrap that was on the airfield prior to departure, the airline said.
DOJ opens criminal investigation into the Alaska Airlines 737 plane blowout, report says
https://apnews.com/article/boeing-ntsb-door-plug-emergency-landing-2d23408a25eff999579c88071836dbec
This will be interesting
pfc_m_drake
03-11-24, 10:15 AM
On the latest issues: Sounds like the 777 lost tire incident is likely a maintenance issue (not directly on Boeing). The 737-900 collapsed landing gear sounds like the pilots may have been taxiing too fast and tried to make a turn and maybe it didn't go so well. Stay tuned on both though.
At Least 50 Injured On LATAM Airlines Boeing 787 After Technical Problem Causes Sudden Drop In Altitude
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2024/03/11/at-least-50-injured-on-latam-airlines-boeing-787-after-technical-problem-causes-sudden-drop-in-altitude/amp/
Boeing whistleblower found dead in US
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703.amp
https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1767311900411642119?s=46&t=FtBbY0VGTU6tkFPNjgS-pg
Air New Zealand Halts 787-Operated Auckland-Chicago Flights
https://aviationa2z.com/index.php/2024/03/12/air-new-zealand-halts-787-chicago-flights/
Not specifically a Boeing issue but due to increased maintenance needed on the Rolls Royce Trent engines.
Boeing is in big trouble
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/12/investing/boeing-is-in-big-trouble/index.html
United Airlines reports fifth flight incident in a week as jet turns back due to ‘maintenance issue’
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/12/australia/australia-united-airlines-sydney-san-francisco-intl-hnk/index.html
The Boeing 777-300 aircraft, carrying 183 passengers and crew, was redirected due to a “maintenance issue,” according to a statement from United Airlines.
:saywhat:
United chief asks Boeing to halt production of 737 Max 10 (https://seekingalpha.com/news/4078470-united-chief-asks-boeing-to-halt-production-of-737-max-10)
“We’ve asked Boeing to stop building Max 10s, which they’ve done, for us and start building Max 9s,” Scott Kirby, chief executive of United (UAL), said Tuesday at a J.P. Morgan investor conference. “It’s impossible to say when Max 10 is going to get certified.”
Obviously there is serious cause for concern over these issues. But I think we're entering into the realm of shark attack stories and some of these issues call into question airline maintenance and procedures as much as Boeing itself.
There's a real possibility that Boeing ends up being the scapegoat for a whole array of problems in the industry and how it has been reshaped over that past two decades. Not just manufacturers, but airlines and regulators as well.
pfc_m_drake
03-14-24, 04:14 AM
Boeing whistleblower found dead in US
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703.amp
https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1767311900411642119?s=46&t=FtBbY0VGTU6tkFPNjgS-pg
I'm not at liberty to divulge how I know this, but my understanding is that this guy likely committed suicide and there was nothing nefarious behind this story. So it's a bad look but don't read anything into it.
Yeah, its since been reported that he did commit suicide.
Unfortunately I doubt that some will be convinced.
Interesting article that I came across about the death of the American telecom industry that speaks to the Boeing situation. It is a pretty fair assessment of what happened to the American telecom industry and AT&T/Western Electric/Lucent in particular. There is a lesson that relates to Boeing and its current problems.
Today, without massive infusions of government subsidies, or transformative technological changes like the rise of software-defined networks, America will not be able regain competitiveness in this industry. Once these assets—including talent—are gone, they are virtually impossible to recover. But it is not too late to learn important lessons from this epic industrial failure and apply them to the advanced industries the United States still has left, including aerospace, biopharmaceuticals, and semiconductors. This will require an overthrow, however, of the prevailing Washington economic orthodoxy, which holds that the United States does not compete economically on a national level, and that no industry is more important than any other. It is time for a new national consensus, one that holds that some industries are too critical to fail and that government needs a robust national industrial strategy. Let us hope that it is not too late to learn these lessons, for it would be beyond tragic if in a decade or two someone has to write an article asking, “Who Lost Boeing, GM, Intel, and Pfizer?”
https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2020/08/who-lost-lucent-the-decline-of-americas-telecom-equipment-industry/
FAA to take a closer look at United after a series of incidents
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/22/business/faa-united-airlines-safety-incidents/index.html
Brings to question, what has United’s board done? Maybe nothing, so the FAA steps in?
https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1771394858781131003?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg :saywhat:
Some nervous travelers are changing their flights to avoid Boeing airplanes
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/travelers-changing-flights-avoid-boeing-airplanes-rcna144158
pfc_m_drake
03-25-24, 05:34 AM
https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1771394858781131003?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg :saywhat:
I seem to recall someone saying that Airbus wasn't without their own issues :D
Separately, not Boeing's issue but: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4SIb_j9UGY
For the YouTube challenged - Boeing 737-800 engine failure on takeoff on Friday.
Boeing CEO Dave Calhoun to step down
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/25/business/boeing-ceo-calhoun-leaving/index.html
pfc_m_drake
03-25-24, 09:13 AM
Wow.
Never was
https://i.redd.it/5w0d7jatfirc1.jpeg
United asks pilots to take unpaid time off, citing Boeing’s delayed aircraft (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/01/united-asks-pilots-to-take-unpaid-time-off-citing-boeing-delays.html)
KEY POINTS
United is offering pilots unpaid time off in May and potentially through the summer, the pilots’ union said.
The airline’s pilots’ union cited delayed Boeing deliveries for the update.
United’s CEO is among airline leaders who have expressed frustration at Boeing, whose chief executive last week said he would step down.
https://x.com/aviationbrk/status/1776177584453104076?s=20
A whistleblower claims that Boeing’s 787 Dreamliner is flawed. The FAA is investigating (https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/09/business/boeing-787-whistleblower/index.html)
Whistleblower Sam Salehpour, a Boeing engineer, alleges that Boeing took shortcuts when manufacturing its 777 and 787 Dreamliner jets, and that the risks could become catastrophic as the airplanes age. The New York Times was first to report the whistleblower complaint.
https://x.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1782382681541476376
TravelGal
04-24-24, 06:57 PM
https://x.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1782382681541476376
Ouch
Whistleblower Josh Dean of Boeing supplier Spirit AeroSystems has died
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/whistleblower-josh-dean-of-boeing-supplier-spirit-aerosystems-has-died/
pfc_m_drake
05-02-24, 08:14 AM
Whistleblower Josh Dean of Boeing supplier Spirit AeroSystems has died
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/whistleblower-josh-dean-of-boeing-supplier-spirit-aerosystems-has-died/ Sounds like another case of things happen sometimes. Though I'm sure everyone at Spirit and Boeing will be nervous for a couple of days.
DOJ says Boeing faces criminal charge for violating deal over 737 Max crashes
(https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/05/doj-says-boeing-faces-criminal-charge-for-violating-deal-over-737-max-crashes/)
The US Department of Justice yesterday said it has determined that Boeing violated a 2021 agreement spurred by two fatal crashes and is now facing a potential criminal prosecution.
Boeing Won’t Design a New Jet. Blame GE. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/boeing-won-t-design-a-new-jet-blame-ge/ar-BB1mMyME)
Engines play a big role in improving aircraft operating costs. A problem for Boeing is the next big thing in engine development might not be ready until 2035.
pfc_m_drake
05-29-24, 09:28 AM
Boeing Won’t Design a New Jet. Blame GE. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/boeing-won-t-design-a-new-jet-blame-ge/ar-BB1mMyME)
I'm surprised they're still talking about things like open fan rotors given the noise implications. They claim they're better today, but not that I've seen.
For those unfamiliar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propfan
Boeing sales tumble as firm gets no orders for the 737 Max for second straight month (https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/boeing-sales-tumble-company-gets-orders-737-max-111021215)
Boeing received orders for only four new planes in May — and for the second straight month, none for its best-selling 737 Max, as fallout continues from the blowout of a side panel on a Max during a flight in January.
The results released Tuesday compared unfavorably with Europe's Airbus, which reported net orders for 15 planes in May — 27 sales but 12 cancellations.
Boeing identifies quality issues with undelivered 787 Dreamliners
https://www.live5news.com/video/2024/06/13/video-boeing-identifies-quality-issues-with-undelivered-787-dreamliners/
pfc_m_drake
06-14-24, 08:10 AM
Boeing identifies quality issues with undelivered 787 Dreamliners
https://www.live5news.com/video/2024/06/13/video-boeing-identifies-quality-issues-with-undelivered-787-dreamliners/
To be honest, there's no reason to believe there aren't quality issues with ALL Boeing airliners currently in production.
Problematic titanium was found in Boeing and Airbus jets. The FAA is investigating how it got there (https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/14/business/faa-probe-counterfeit-titanium-boeing-airbus/index.html)
Titanium that was distributed with fake documentation has been found in commercial Boeing and Airbus jets. Now the Federal Aviation Administration, the aircraft manufacturers and supplier Spirit AeroSystems are investigating whether those components pose a safety hazard to the public.
:saywhat: :shakehead: :mad:
pfc_m_drake
06-18-24, 10:59 PM
Well, a lot of the raw titanium material in the world originates in Russia, so color me shocked that it came with fake certs.
Pilots warned smoke could penetrate cabin if Boeing 737 Max planes have a bird strike
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/19/business/smoke-cabin-boeing-737-max-bird-strike/index.html
Documents newly obtained by CNN detail that Boeing warned Southwest Airlines and American Airlines of the potential problem in February and both airlines in turn sent alerts to their respective pilot groups.
pfc_m_drake
06-24-24, 08:12 AM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/28664554/boeing-jets-windshield-cracked/
A Boeing whistleblower says he saw holes being drilled incorrectly on 787 planes, adding to the chorus of people speaking up against the company
https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-whistleblower-says-he-saw-holes-drilled-wrongly-on-787s-2024-6?utm_campaign=insider-sf&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social
Boeing agrees to buy fuselage maker Spirit AeroSystems in $4.7 billion deal (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/01/boeing-to-buy-spirit-aerosystems.html)
Former Boeing inspector alleges ‘scrap’ parts ended up on assembly lines
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/03/business/former-boeing-inspector-scrap-parts-assembly-lines/index.html
https://x.com/jonostrower/status/1825648917171810522?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg
https://x.com/jonostrower/status/1825648917171810522?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg
Seems like a lot of context missing there. Are those test parts? Are they production parts failing after exceptional testing routines? There doesn't seem to be concern for production aircraft in the discussion.
A new setback hits a Boeing jet: US will require inspection of pilot seats on 787s
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/new-setback-hits-boeing-jet-us-require-inspection-112993917
pfc_m_drake
08-22-24, 10:57 AM
A new setback hits a Boeing jet: US will require inspection of pilot seats on 787s
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/new-setback-hits-boeing-jet-us-require-inspection-112993917The thrust link issue really bothers me. By necessity that's a beefy part. The fact that one failed after so few hours is not good.
NTSB issues ‘urgent’ safety warning for some Boeing 737s, including MAX, in latest blow to struggling planemaker
https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/26/business/ntsb-urgent-safety-warning-boeing-737s-max/index.html
The National Transportation Safety Board is issuing “urgent safety recommendations” for some Boeing 737s—including the embattled 737 MAX line— warning that critical flight controls could jam.
pfc_m_drake
10-02-24, 07:36 AM
When you're really struggling like Boeing, the best thing to do is take on a bunch of new debt.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-weighs-raising-least-10-100818735.html
Boeing Co. is considering raising at least $10 billion by selling new stock, as the planemaker seeks to replenish cash reserves depleted further by an ongoing strike, according to people familiar with the discussions.
Boeing to raise up to $19 billion to shore up finances, stave off downgrade (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/28/boeing-launches-offering-to-raise-roughly-19-billion-to-shore-up-finances-.html)
pfc_m_drake
10-29-24, 09:04 AM
Boeing to raise up to $19 billion to shore up finances, stave off downgrade (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/28/boeing-launches-offering-to-raise-roughly-19-billion-to-shore-up-finances-.html)
So basically double what they were floating at the beginning of the month.
Not good.
While there are real problems at Boeing, I also think that there is a certain amount of dog piling on Boeing that is being used to deflect attention from other problems that are partly or entirely unrelated. The tragedy with Jeju Air Flight 2216 is the latest example.
While it is possible that there is some defect in the 737 that contributed to the tragic outcome, the plane in question was a 737-800. The 800 model predates the recent blunders and has millions of miles of safe operation.
The accident started with a bird strike and there are many questions about the sequence of events that followed. I won't complain about speculation and then speculate, but most experts I've seen agree that it appears that there were a series of failures or mistakes that ended with the obvious disaster of an earth and concrete barrier at the end of the runway.
Boeing Deliveries Tank in 2024
https://airlinegeeks.com/2025/01/02/boeing-deliveries-tank-in-2024/#
pfc_m_drake
01-07-25, 02:03 PM
While there are real problems at Boeing, I also think that there is a certain amount of dog piling on Boeing that is being used to deflect attention from other problems that are partly or entirely unrelated. The tragedy with Jeju Air Flight 2216 is the latest example.
While it is possible that there is some defect in the 737 that contributed to the tragic outcome, the plane in question was a 737-800. The 800 model predates the recent blunders and has millions of miles of safe operation.
The accident started with a bird strike and there are many questions about the sequence of events that followed. I won't complain about speculation and then speculate, but most experts I've seen agree that it appears that there were a series of failures or mistakes that ended with the obvious disaster of an earth and concrete barrier at the end of the runway.Certainly there's truth in this. I don't know if you followed up on the Jeju Air crash but I'll give you dollars to doughnuts that the pilots shut down the wrong (e.g. the still working) engine which ultimately sealed their fate.
A few professional pilots that I've seen interviewed make a good point too - they were configured and on short final. They should have just landed after the birdstrike instead of going around.
But there's other truth in your post as well - the Starliner situation, Boeing's military division has been operating at a loss since 2022, their stock (debt) offering last month, and now drastically reduced commercial deliveries. I'm sure Boeing would like to keep their broader problems out of the news.
Yeah, that's what I'm seeing. A series of fundamental pilot errors which literally headed them straight into a wall. It's a terrible tragedy that probably doesn't happen except for to a series of improbable mistakes.
38 hurt as United flight to DC experiences ‘unexpected aircraft movement’
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2025/01/25/united-airlines-flight-emergency-landing-nigeria-dc-injuries/77952864007/
United Airlines flight 613 was forced to return to Lagos, Nigeria, after experiencing an "unexpected movement" that officials initially said resulted in four passengers and two flight attendants being sent to the hospital for examination.
The flight was operated by a Boeing 787 and carried 245 passengers, eight flight attendants, and three pilots.
:eek:
pfc_m_drake
01-29-25, 11:28 AM
38 hurt as United flight to DC experiences ‘unexpected aircraft movement’
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2025/01/25/united-airlines-flight-emergency-landing-nigeria-dc-injuries/77952864007/
:eek:
Sounds like an autopilot failure from the other articles that I read. We'll know shortly.
Sounds like an autopilot failure from the other articles that I read. We'll know shortly.
One source stated severe turbulence. If unexpected severe turbulence made the autopilot unexpectedly release that could be a wild ride.
https://x.com/truthsandnews/status/1886182138854133848?s=61&t=oFXcsN2wTfApq6UdUB40Qg
Thank God everyone survived in the Toronto crash. Speculation about crosswinds but looking at the video it sure looks like their flaps aren't configured.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox9Grxq9ifA
CRJs are to flare at landing, meaning the nose is to pull up before it lands. That did not happen. My son spent years flying CRJ variants.
pfc_m_drake
02-19-25, 08:52 AM
According to blancolirio the crosswind component was only ~7 knots (due to the airplane heading and wind direction at the time).
Like SteveH I also noticed the lack of flare. Plus they planted the right main gear hard on touchdown - likely blasted through the wing ripping it off.
If nrc is right and they didn't have flaps that could explain why they planted so hard.
Ouch
American Airlines Flight 1006, a Boeing 737-800 flying from Colorado Springs to Dallas, suffered a major ground fire after diverting to Denver this afternoon.
https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1900352066981142696
NTSB on the DCA mid-air. The helicopter route was obviously too close to the DCA approach flight path.
(...) "Route 4 was an "intolerable risk"; "It does make me angry"; "[The FAA] could have used that information to determine that…we have a problem here… That didn't occur, which is why we're taking action today but unfortunately people lost lives." (...)
https://x.com/OnDisasters/status/1900141318786912526
pfc_m_drake
03-18-25, 08:27 AM
NTSB on the DCA mid-air. The helicopter route was obviously too close to the DCA approach flight path.
https://x.com/OnDisasters/status/1900141318786912526
It's unbelievable that they allowed that to go on for so long. Quite frankly I'm surprised it took until now to have an incident.
It's unbelievable that they allowed that to go on for so long. Quite frankly I'm surprised it took until now to have an incident.
My thought exactly. I'm waiting to hear if this will explode the brewing NTSB/FAA rift.
Judge orders a June trial for US government’s felony case against Boeing (https://apnews.com/article/boeing-plea-deal-737-max-crashes-trial-b0d4d057a1d0fdddca8f0e154289717a)
Cx1lTUx9GC0?si=3XW59vtAbK4ZjZj9
pfc_m_drake
06-12-25, 08:07 AM
Breaking - Air India Flight 171 (Boeing 787-8) crashes on takeoff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_171
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y5nq170z4o
Shortly before contact was lost, the flight crew issued a mayday call to air traffic control.[1] The crash took place in the early afternoon during takeoff procedures. Eyewitnesses from the Meghani Nagar area reported hearing multiple explosions, followed by thick plumes of smoke visible from nearby locations, including Dharpur.
A lot of possibilities being floated around:
Extreme heat in Ahmedabad which is under an excessive heat warning. Which can reduce a jet’s performance.
Bird strike causing both engines to fail
To support the above there are reports the RAT was deployed, ram air turbine which generates enough electricity for control of aircraft, but obviously no thrust.
pfc_m_drake
06-12-25, 12:22 PM
The Wiki link I posted now has CCTV footage. From what I can tell there was no evidence of bird strike (no smoke from either engine during takeoff roll and rotation).
It's difficult to tell from the video due to the low quality, but to my eye it looks like the flaps were NOT deployed on the plane (as they should be for takeoff).
One pilot channel suggested the co-pilot may have brought the flaps full up when they should have brought the gear up. The flaps are normally incremental.
If it was a single engine failure the pilot kept it mighty straight and as you say, no obvious sign of engine problems.
Another pilot channel suggests you can hear what sounds like the propeller driven backup generator which sounds like a prop plane as it goes by. That could suggest a double engine failure. Very unusual but something like contaminated fuel could cause it.
Hard to believe a single survivor walked away.
pfc_m_drake
06-13-25, 07:21 AM
One pilot channel suggested the co-pilot may have brought the flaps full up when they should have brought the gear up. The flaps are normally incremental.Too early to say for sure, but if I had to bet right now, I'm guessing that's what happened.
This pilot says that you can see and hear the Ram air turbine deployed in the video. Seems like a convincing argument for a dual engine failure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XYO-mj1ugg
pfc_m_drake
06-16-25, 09:53 AM
This pilot says that you can see and hear the Ram air turbine deployed in the video. Seems like a convincing argument for a dual engine failure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XYO-mj1uggStarting to look that way. We'll know more when they retrieve the black boxes. I'm not really buying the contaminated fuel argument though - making this one very strange.
I'm skeptical of fuel contamination also. I don't believe any other flights had similar issues. I would have thought contamination would be more wide spread
However another Air India 787 had to return to Hong Kong due to technical issues
Air India Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner flight forced to turn back with technical issue – days after Ahmedabad disaster (https://www.the-independent.com/asia/india/air-india-boeing-dreamliner-hong-kong-delhi-b2770631.html)
pfc_m_drake
06-28-25, 09:39 AM
In the process of watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQIVduOXBz0
Apparently 4 days after the Air India crash an FAA Air-Worthiness Directive was issued instructing air crews to perform visual inspections of the toilet and faucets in the lavatories as there is a possibility of leaking water dripping into the electronics bay of the aircraft.
Obviously too early to speculate but noteworthy nonetheless. Additionally they make a couple of interesting observations:
1) We've basically heard nothing to date in terms of the black box and cockpit voice recorders
2) The crash site has been cleaned up very quickly, removing basically all physical evidence
Sounds like India may be being somewhat defensive in their examination of the crash. They have enlisted the UK Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau to serve as an expert on retrieving the data but the AAIB doesn't release information directly. Data and voice recordings have reportedly been retrieved and they haven't made any statements or decided whether they're going to
https://www.the-independent.com/asia/india/air-india-crash-black-box-update-b2777294.html
The Indian government said on Thursday that a decision on whether to send either of the black boxes abroad for further decoding would be taken only after the AAIB had completed a full assessment of technical, safety and security considerations.
pfc_m_drake
06-30-25, 11:54 AM
Data from the recorders has been retrieved and officials are apparently not ruling out sabotage.
https://www.newsweek.com/air-india-plane-crash-investigation-sabotage-theory-2092434
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