Forsythe takes his ball home.

[Chiphead_Dave]

Oh gee, yippy, 2 weeks' severence!!


About equal to what they would get in most jobs.




Meanwhile, guys will be let go in April. Wonder just how many racing jobs will be available then?! :irked:


Jobs never end when you want them to end....trust me on that one.






rubbish about Gerry having principles is laughable.



IMHO he does have principles. I wouldn't take a team Twirl'ing either. Yes it sucks he has to fire some employees but what would you expect....him to pay them out of the goodness of his heart. If the guy honestly believes he can't take a team into the FTG league who are you to tell him otherwise.




I hope PT finds a ride and tells Gerry to stuff it. Let him put 3 wankers in the car at Long Beach: it's what he deserves. :thumdown:

Based on what I am seeing I have more respect for GF than PT at this point....... Don't get me wrong I like PT and I agree a mans gotta work but I don't think PT is hurting for money at this point in his life. I just can't believe how fast these teams, drivers and some fans are imbibing the coolaid.

I just can't believe that my nearly 40 years of watching American open wheel racing is at it's end.....because I won't watch the gIRL. Maybe if FTG hires some good people and the racing/cars/tracks/.... change I might watch but at this point I am done.

[Don Quixote]

I wonder how many racing related jobs all these fencesitters have created and maintained over the years. Surely more than Gerry Forsythe. GMAFB :shakehead :gomer:

[Hesketh]

IMHO he does have principles. I wouldn't take a team Twirl'ing either. Yes it sucks he has to fire some employees but what would you expect....him to pay them out of the goodness of his heart. If the guy honestly believes he can't take a team into the FTG league who are you to tell him otherwise.



Based on what I am seeing I have more respect for GF than PT at this point....... Don't get me wrong I like PT and I agree a mans gotta work but I don't think PT is hurting for money at this point in his life. I just can't believe how fast these teams, drivers and some fans are imbibing the coolaid.

I just can't believe that my nearly 40 years of watching American open wheel racing is at it's end.....because I won't watch the gIRL. Maybe if FTG hires some good people and the racing/cars/tracks/.... change I might watch but at this point I am done.



Ahhh, I see you

1. are a fence sitter
2. don't have principles
3. don't understand the whole Gerry Forsythe/sacking the team thing
4. have no clue about koolaid or "If the guy honestly believes he can't take a team into the FTG league who are you to tell him otherwise"


:shakehead

[Chiphead_Dave]

Ahhh, I see you

1. are a fence sitter

:rofl: Never been and never will be.....I have and never will watch an IRL race. How can I be a fence sitter.



2. don't have principles

Depends on who you ask apparently....but I am a realist and GF leaving is exactly what I would do in this situation. I couldn't field a team that would put a driver in one of those cars and give money to FTG even if it was going to cause trouble for myself and those that worked for me.



3. don't understand the whole Gerry Forsythe/sacking the team thing

What's not to understand....he is a businessman and when the business no longer requires services from some employees they get sacked.....I don't like it (been through many many layoffs on both the workerbee and management sides) any more than the next guy but what would you like him to do.



4. have no clue about koolaid or "If the guy honestly belie
ves he can't take a team into the FTG league who are you to tell him otherwise"

Kool-aid in this instance is a reference to the Jim Jones insanity in Jonestown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown_massacre

FTG is playing the part of Jim Jones and dragging down everyone he can.
I prefer not to take any part in the process. And I am sorry that some teams/drivers feel they must be involved. I lament their loss and involvement in the process.

[Ruben Barrios]

GF signed as much as the others... I am not buying this whole thing about... he didn't want to sign, but he had to... had he really not wanted to sign he could have dragged it to court...

GF, like everyone else in this world, has a price... and TG reached it...

[Hesketh]

:rofl: Never been and never will be.....I have and never will watch an IRL race. How can I be a fence sitter.


Depends on who you ask apparently....but I am a realist and GF leaving is exactly what I would do in this situation. I couldn't field a team that would put a driver in one of those cars and give money to FTG even if it was going to cause trouble for myself and those that worked for me.


What's not to understand....he is a businessman and when the business no longer requires services from some employees they get sacked.....I don't like it (been through many many layoffs on both the workerbee and management sides) any more than the next guy but what would you like him to do.


Kool-aid in this instance is a reference to the Jim Jones insanity in Jonestown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown_massacre

FTG is playing the part of Jim Jones and dragging down everyone he can.
I prefer not to take any part in the process. And I am sorry that some teams/drivers feel they must be involved. I lament their loss and involvement in the process.



BLIMEY, are you obtuse!!!

First of all: irony, sarcasm. Look them up.

Fence sitter: I had just quoted your previous post that said you might watch. I was taking the Mickey.

I think you and a lot of fans have gone overboard about the safety of the cars. It's not like no one ever died in a CART car. :rolleyes: And if what Mickelwright says is true (that they'll be testing this year and back in '09), it's not really about principles, is it? a-hem. Get it?

Give me a break with the business lecture. Once again, Gerry is having a little tantrum and his employees suffer. Been there, done that. He is not a racer; he's a poor businessman who is only out for himself and doesn't give a **** what happens to the people who depend on him for a job. What you utterly fail to understand, having, I'm sure, never even met Gerry, is that with Gerry, it's personal, not business.

Koolaid: you bloody wanker, I know about Jim Jones. What's your problem?


Either you're trying to wind me up or you're the dumbest fan I've ever encountered. Either way, I'm out. I'm not going to take any more bait or waste time trying to educate you. At least we won't have to deal with you from now on since you won't (or MAY not) be watching/attending races. Adios!

[gjc2]

When I wrote that, no one said what was happening with the employees. I'm not sure what you expect. I'd expect severance pay (2 weeks is standard at many companies, I do not know if that is standard in auto racing) or him to honor contracts people signed. If he doesn't do that, then he's not honorable.

never mind

[Tex]

Agreed. In fact, Players & Gerra are in along standing, expensive litigation thing, and as the norm, there is much hate between Gerra & those that owe him. Players.

run, PT, run.....

However, been told he will 3-4 @ LBGP and 1 or 2 @Indy. Makes sense, why **** around with this year, when you can sit back, regroup, etc. IMHO, he's not done racing.

:tony:

P.S. EARLY RETIREMENT VS. FIRED.

I was just thinking the same thing as I was sitting here reading thru this thread. The thought of Forsythe Racing doing the one-off at indy kinda falls in line with Nemick saying they're going to keep a core group of people around. But really, if they didn't have a chance of winning the fi-hunnert, why would he go?

[Chiphead_Dave]

BLIMEY, are you obtuse!!!

First of all: irony, sarcasm. Look them up.

Fence sitter: I had just quoted your previous post that said you might watch. I was taking the Mickey.

I think you and a lot of fans have gone overboard about the safety of the cars. It's not like no one ever died in a CART car. :rolleyes: And if what Mickelwright says is true (that they'll be testing this year and back in '09), it's not really about principles, is it? a-hem. Get it?

Give me a break with the business lecture. Once again, Gerry is having a little tantrum and his employees suffer. Been there, done that. He is not a racer; he's a poor businessman who is only out for himself and doesn't give a **** what happens to the people who depend on him for a job. What you utterly fail to understand, having, I'm sure, never even met Gerry, is that with Gerry, it's personal, not business.

Koolaid: you bloody wanker, I know about Jim Jones. What's your problem?


Either you're trying to wind me up or you're the dumbest fan I've ever encountered. Either way, I'm out. I'm not going to take any more bait or waste time trying to educate you. At least we won't have to deal with you from now on since you won't (or MAY not) be watching/attending races. Adios!

Quoting this for posterity. It's been a while since anyone called me a wanker and obtuse in the same post. I must be slipping.

[nrc]

Either you're trying to wind me up or you're the dumbest fan I've ever encountered. Either way, I'm out. I'm not going to take any more bait or waste time trying to educate you. At least we won't have to deal with you from now on since you won't (or MAY not) be watching/attending races. Adios!

It's probably for the best. You don't seem cut out for education. Some of what you posted in this thread wasn't at all clear and insulting people because they didn't understand what you were saying or just don't agree is not really conducive to a worthwhile discussion.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Boy, lets hope that Forysthe puts more effort into finding sponsorship for '09 than he did in actually keeping his racing series alive. But, you know, that was all FTG's fault. :gomer:

[Dr. Corkski]

Given Gesus Forsythe sponsor-hunting prowess he might be able to find something by 2018 if he starts now.

[Racing Truth]

Given Gesus Forsythe sponsor-hunting prowess he might be able to find something by 2018 if he starts now.

:rofl: :rofl: :laugh:

[Insomniac]

Boy, lets hope that Forysthe puts more effort into finding sponsorship for '09 than he did in actually keeping his racing series alive. But, you know, that was all FTG's fault. :gomer:

Now he has plenty of time. ;)

[Racing Truth]

It's probably for the best. You don't seem cut out for education. Some of what you posted in this thread wasn't at all clear and insulting people because they didn't understand what you were saying or just don't agree is not really conducive to a worthwhile discussion.

Respectfully boss(es), I'd say that while Hesk can seem, um, abrasive at times, he knows his stuff more than most of us (me included). I hope he is allowed to stick around. Just MHO.

Anyway, I'd say more, but it comes down to this: I really, really don't get, as Cork would say, the Gesus Forsythe Kool-Aid.

Quick review: FCR wins a title in '03 against a rookie Bourdais and, uhhh, not much else. Then, they proceed to get rolled year after year by NH(L), despite a very thin field. We see a nice roll with 'Dinger in '06, before admittedly, GF gets screwed. Come '07, they're nowhere and, like the old curmudgeonly crazy man (or petulant child- your choice) he is, just stops showing up. As the inspirational saying goes, "When the going gets tough, QUIT.":gomer:

The same man b'ed and moaned about TC, the only man, at the top level, with competence. Etc.

Yet, some think he is a great man of principle. Color me :saywhat: .

And yes, I'm soooo going to get flamed for this. Flamesuit on, yo.:thumbup:

[nrc]

Respectfully boss(es), I'd say that while Hesk can seem, um, abrasive at times, he knows his stuff more than most of us (me included). I hope he is allowed to stick around. Just MHO.

I haven't done anything but comment. Maybe he thinks he was being more clear than he was. We can tolerate a certain amount of "abrasiveness" when someone is making an honest attempt to have a discussion and becomes frustrated. Skipping straight to the personal attacks on the grounds that you can't be bothered to "educate" isn't welcome.

We're always happy to have folks who know their stuff on the forum, but that doesn't mean they have free reign.

As for Forsythe, he's just a guy who is used to having things his own way.

[RaceGrrl]

As for Forsythe, he's just a guy who is used to having things his own way.

... and he wouldn't have free rein here either. :D

[robot9000]

People keep making the mistake of thinking Gesus Forsyth is a normal, logical, thought out guy, when history proves he is just the opposite! He is a rich white guy that is old skool and, too long, used to having his own way and imposing it on others.

If it was about ethics or principle or whatever, he would walk away, close shop and never darken AOW door again. But he (or at least Nemic) says that's not the case, that he is either taking a year off or looking for sponsorship. If those are true, then its NOT about beliefs. Its about money. And thats okay. Just say so.

If gerry really had a passion for the sport, he would fire up a ALMS, Grand Am or NASCAB team and move full force to that.

But it seems he only has a passion for control. He wanted more franchise back in the day (and more voting rights to go with it, I belive), he ran CC (and did a STUNNING job if it too. :cry: ) and now that he doesn't get to be The Boss, he takes his ball and goes home to pout.

Good riddence I say. As much fun as it is to bag on Coyne, I give Dale 1000% more credit because he makes due with what he has and shows up to do his best. It might still be lack luster, It might be on someone else's dime, it might we with a driver he is told to use, but he's there. Dale Coyne and Dick Simon, the Poster Children for backmarker teams, have, what seems, a passion for the sport.

Gesus Gerry, um. Not so much. :saywhat:

[nrc]

If it was about ethics or principle or whatever, he would walk away, close shop and never darken AOW door again. But he (or at least Nemic) says that's not the case, that he is either taking a year off or looking for sponsorship. If those are true, then its NOT about beliefs. Its about money. And thats okay. Just say so.

Didn't they? Isn't it outsiders that are proposing the "leaving based on principle" notion?

[robot9000]

Didn't they? Isn't it outsiders that are proposing the "leaving based on principle" notion?

Yes, it it. Thats what I was speaking to. I'm apparetnly channeling Hesketh. :laugh:

[mueber]

Didn't they? Isn't it outsiders that are proposing the "leaving based on principle" notion?

Principle, now there’s humor for ya.

[JLMannin]

I don't think Gerry shut down his team "on principle"

Since I hold TG accountable for the deplorable position AOWR is in today, I can see how it would be easy to think that Gerry did what he did out of principle, but I think that is giving him too much credit. I think it was a clear and simple business decision on his part.

[Sean Malone]

Did he let everyone go except PT or did he just say he isn't going to the IRL? PT mentioned that all of the new team members are chomping at the bit to go racing which sounds like they are all still employed.

[dando]

Did he let everyone go except PT or did he just say he isn't going to the IRL? PT mentioned that all of the new team members are chomping at the bit to go racing which sounds like they are all still employed.

All I have seen mentioned is that a small crew is still there for the @lantics team and some core peeps. One would assume that Micklewright would still be around as well as a few othe key personnel:


“I’m going to try and keep a core group going so that we might try and run IndyCars in 2009 – I believe that is still a possibility. But again it’s dependent on sponsorship.”

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/forsythe-championship-racing-ceases-operations/

-Kevin

[extramundane]

I'm going to stick with my initial impression that GF is batschnit crazy and nobody, including the other voices in GF's head, knows WTF he's going to do five minutes from now.

I'm picturing Larry David's Steinbrenner caricature right about now.

[robot9000]

I'm going to stick with my initial impression that GF is batschnit crazy and nobody, including the other voices in GF's head, knows WTF he's going to do five minutes from now.

I'm picturing Larry David's Steinbrenner caricature right about now.

:thumbup: :thumbup: (with a swirl)

[Racing Truth]

I'm going to stick with my initial impression that GF is batschnit crazy and nobody, including the other voices in GF's head, knows WTF he's going to do five minutes from now.

I'm picturing Larry David's Steinbrenner caricature right about now.

After watching PT on WTunnel last night, I agree and I take back nothing that I've said previously on GF. H=ll, PT seemed to think there was still an outside shot he'd change his mind for '08.:saywhat:

[OW]

Paul said more than once "I'm still under contract".
Is that? That he would get paid the $million to not even race? (for 2008 )

Like farmers that get paid to NOT plant?
(caught up in GF's tantrum)

Not good for his career (for a few more years)
But the money..

He is a dedicated Jockey...
May be why He wants to talk GF into re-think....

I like (we all like) PT...He's trying hard to balance Contract with wanting to be a driver.

Tuff Decision.
Gerry should just "do it" ...but wev'e all discussed GF's emotional intentions.

[Insomniac]

Paul said more than once "I'm still under contract".
Is that? That he would get paid the $million to not even race? (for 2008 )

Like farmers that get paid to NOT plant?
(caught up in GF's tantrum)

Not good for his career (for a few more years)
But the money..

He is a dedicated Jockey...
May be why He wants to talk GF into re-think....

I like (we all like) PT...He's trying hard to balance Contract with wanting to be a driver.

Tuff Decision.
Gerry should just "do it" ...but wev'e all discussed GF's emotional intentions.

In most places, if you have an employment contract which guarantees you money, you can sue for the rest if you are fired. They would normally offset any new salary you got for doing the same work.

[TravelGal]

GF signed as much as the others... I am not buying this whole thing about... he didn't want to sign, but he had to... had he really not wanted to sign he could have dragged it to court...

GF, like everyone else in this world, has a price... and TG reached it...

I can't quite get to the idea that GF had his price. He is not the venture capitalist in the picture, KK is. Are you saying it would have been a viable alternative for GF to take it to court? How would he have thought that was better for the sport? No one to run the CCWS in 2008 with KK already gone but no one goes to the IRL either because CCWS is not gone. In some ways, yeah, in hindsight the meanest part of me would have liked that better but can you imagine the forums if GF stuffed the whole thing up? (with apologies to my Australian friends :blush:)


It's probably for the best. You don't seem cut out for education. Some of what you posted in this thread wasn't at all clear and insulting people because they didn't understand what you were saying or just don't agree is not really conducive to a worthwhile discussion.

Thanks again boss. You seem to be reading my mind once again. And BTW, Insomniac, I did find that ignore button you described. Thanks. ;)

[Insomniac]

I can't quite get to the idea that GF had his price. He is not the venture capitalist in the picture, KK is. Are you saying it would have been a viable alternative for GF to take it to court? How would he have thought that was better for the sport? No one to run the CCWS in 2008 with KK already gone but no one goes to the IRL either because CCWS is not gone. In some ways, yeah, in hindsight the meanest part of me would have liked that better but can you imagine the forums if GF stuffed the whole thing up? (with apologies to my Australian friends :blush:)

Well, I don't know what the percentages of ownership were in the end, but at some point I believe it was 45% KK, 45% GF and 10% PG. Dan Petit somehow got in the mix. If KK and PG had >50% control, they could've stopped it if they wanted I suppose. KV Racing still could've left anyways. I doubt any of us will know anyone's true intentions. Especially when it seemed like so many times they acted contrary to what our collective common sense said they should do. Many have said it best that 2008 is going to be a gigantic mess. 2009 is a semi-clean slate for a schedule, probably not so much for equipment. There's really nothing else the fans can do besides wait (and watch if you want).


Thanks again boss. You seem to be reading my mind once again. And BTW, Insomniac, I did find that ignore button you described. Thanks. ;)

Glad you're putting it to good use. :)