View Full Version : George and Kalkhoven on Wind Tunnel tonight
Mike Lawler
02-24-08, 01:10 PM
Two more guests have been added to this week’s line-up for Wind Tunnel with Dave Despain—the two main players in last week’s unification in open-wheel racing, Tony George and Kevin Kalkhoven will be interviewed together (but in separate locations) LIVE on Sunday night at 9 p.m. ET.
stroker
02-24-08, 01:41 PM
Gee, I wonder if they're going to lead off with an email from Chief?
:D
Methanolandbrats
02-24-08, 03:43 PM
Despain, Miller and Gomer callers in one big circle jerk. I'll pass.
Accipiter
02-24-08, 04:10 PM
Prepare to feel the love.
I couldn't figure out how you email the Despain.......show....
But I would love to have him ask (silly question)
When will http://www.champcarworldseries.com/FrontPage.asp get real?
I couldn't figure out how you email the Despain.......show....
But I would love to have him ask (silly question)
When will http://www.champcarworldseries.com/FrontPage.asp get real?
Yeah, very sad statement about the series management and a slap in the face to their fans that the site appears to be abandoned.
extramundane
02-24-08, 05:18 PM
Yeah, very sad statement about the series management and a slap in the face to their fans that the site appears to be abandoned.
Seems sadly appropriate, though, as CC's official web presence has always been pretty horrendous.
Which brings up another point. What about the history there? The IRL is supposedly buying it as intellectual property (an excuse for TG to pay them off that doesn't wound his pride) but will the Champ car records from 1996 to present be appropriately preserved?
Rogue Leader
02-24-08, 05:28 PM
Which brings up another point. What about the history there? The IRL is supposedly buying it as intellectual property (an excuse for TG to pay them off that doesn't wound his pride) but will the Champ car records from 1996 to present be appropriately preserved?
More interesting... what is to happen with the Vanderbilt Cup?
extramundane
02-24-08, 05:35 PM
Which brings up another point. What about the history there? The IRL is supposedly buying it as intellectual property (an excuse for TG to pay them off that doesn't wound his pride) but will the Champ car records from 1996 to present be appropriately preserved?
Along those lines, I've been wondering who will be listed as, say, "Indy Car champion." The IRL champ? The CC champ? Both? And what period exactly does TG get? 1996-2007? Everything after CART bankruptcy? The entirety of CART and CC?
This whole "sale of intellectual property" clause is utterly ridiculous.
Sean Malone
02-24-08, 05:54 PM
More interesting... what is to happen with the Vanderbilt Cup?
My guess is nothing. It's leased from the family anyway and was unused for decades. Tony has his trophy --> BW.
cameraman
02-24-08, 05:55 PM
This whole "sale of intellectual property" clause is utterly ridiculous.
I took it to be the DP01 design info. If the car was designed and built for champ car then they own that information. I think TG now owns all things DP01.
My guess is nothing. It's leased from the family anyway and was unused for decades. Tony has his trophy --> BW.
Actually, it's a recreation.
The Vanderbilt Cup - Established in 1904 by William K. Vanderbilt Jr., The Vanderbilt Cup is America's first major Motorsports trophy. Resurrected in 1996 to serve as the race trophy for the US 500, the re-creation of The Vanderbilt Cup was produced by Tiffany and Co. The trophy is considered priceless since any re-creation of The Cup must meet approval of the Vanderbilt family. Starting in 2000, The Vanderbilt Cup has been awarded to the Champ Car World Series champion. The original Cup sits in the Smithsonian Institute.
rosawendel
02-24-08, 07:05 PM
I took it to be the DP01 design info. If the car was designed and built for champ car then they own that information. I think TG now owns all things DP01.
i think they own the rights to use it. the car itself would probably still be the intellectual property of panoz.
cameraman
02-24-08, 08:25 PM
i think they own the rights to use it. the car itself would probably still be the intellectual property of panoz.
Possibly but it could also be the other way around.
It totally depends on the contract that no one posting here has ever seen.
Spicoli
02-24-08, 08:34 PM
miller & varsha on speed report right now.
robby Gordon threatening to come back too. :D
Rogue Leader
02-24-08, 08:35 PM
My guess is nothing. It's leased from the family anyway and was unused for decades. Tony has his trophy --> BW.
Thats not true, the Vanderbilt Cup they hand out now is a replica of the real one that they built for the US 500 originally, then it became the series champ trophy.
"Long Term" "Big Picture"
Streets, Ovals, Road courses
Despain "Sounds remenicent of Cart"
Tony " Yeah Yeah"
Sean Malone
02-24-08, 10:42 PM
Thats not true, the Vanderbilt Cup they hand out now is a replica of the real one that they built for the US 500 originally, then it became the series champ trophy.
The rights to use it, not the actual cup.
I just want to be a part of this important thread
Apparently Kalkhoven will be involved going forward which indicates is a big change in TG past position.
George
Sean Malone
02-24-08, 10:45 PM
KK looks like Popeye. TG talks like he's on Valium.
Both were being very careful of what they were saying.
devilmaster
02-24-08, 10:46 PM
I just want to be a part of this important thread
I don't.
awww crap. :irked:
Apparently Kalkhoven will be involved going forward which indicates is a big change in TG past position.
George
That's not what I heard. KK said he'd like to have an influence but he deferred some question asked of him directly to TG.
Mario " gonna get like what cart used to be"
positive...
:thumbup:
"you don`t follow NASCAR"
hire this guy :D
That's not what I heard. KK said he'd like to have an influence but he deferred some question asked of him directly to TG.
I doubt they wanted to say to much prior to the press conference. I had been wondering if TG had just bought the Champ Car assets and the CC principals would walk away. It seems that's not the case and that at least KK will have some involvement. I e-mailed a question the Wind Tunnel asking if the deal was a merger or an acquisition.
I don't.
awww crap. :irked::laugh:
stroker
02-24-08, 11:43 PM
The entire segment was completely useless, other than to reinforce my suspicions that the situation is FUBAR.
cameraman
02-24-08, 11:49 PM
suspicions?????
The show was nothing but Indycentric ...
We've got enough headaches right now without you throwing vulgarity into the mix. :irked:
Sean Malone
02-25-08, 12:15 AM
I though the summary by Despain at the beginning was fair and summarized the history nicely touching on the positives and negatives of both series.
I felt Tony, without actually saying it, gave the impression that this was an absorption, or acquisition rather than a merger, but I expected as much.
I was hoping that KK and GF would have some role in the decision making going forward but I get the impression that they will simply be a team owner just like everyone else.
It was nice of KK to acknowledge Mario's hard work in this. Tony didn't.
I was somewhat surprised that Tony made a few vague comments about the next formula and the tracks they run on. A small light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe.
I missed the part where Tony mentioned something about stepping back and letting others run things. Did I not hear that correctly?
As they said, they want to save things for the 'press conference'. I'm not expecting much other than KK announcing he is going over there and that Tony is buying everything. There will still be "there is a lot to work out" comments from both men.
Methanolandbrats
02-25-08, 12:19 AM
We've got enough headaches right now without you throwing vulgarity into the mix. :irked: Fine. I'm done.
I missed the part where Tony mentioned something about stepping back and letting others run things. Did I not hear that correctly?
He implied that he's not very involved on a day to day basis now. Vishun is his wife's team by the way, doncha know. No conflict there. :tony:
Maybe with Cottman on board the 2010 formula will be something tolerable.
In a terrific stroke of irony, immediately after tonight's Wind Tunnel, TVLand ran this episode of "Sanford & Son." (http://www.tv.com/sanford-and-son/the-merger/episode/58143/summary.html?tag=ep_list;ep_title;13)
Julio has gotten tired of the junk business and that's when Lamont comes up with an idea, Sanford & Son Salvage should merge with Julio's business. Julio goes for the idea but Fred is against it, but they merge anyway to form Sanford & Fuentes Salvage. However, everyone soon realizes the consequences attached to such a decision.
Napoleon
02-25-08, 06:15 AM
I doubt they wanted to say to much prior to the press conference. I had been wondering if TG had just bought the Champ Car assets and the CC principals would walk away. It seems that's not the case and that at least KK will have some involvement.
There is a pretty good chance that for tax reasons some of what they will paid is in the form of a "consulting" agreement which will have KK providing exactly nothing in the way of actual consulting.
I just couldn 't bring myself to watch.
Napoleon
02-25-08, 09:34 AM
In a terrific stroke of irony, immediately after tonight's Wind Tunnel, TVLand ran this episode of "Sanford & Son." (http://www.tv.com/sanford-and-son/the-merger/episode/58143/summary.html?tag=ep_list;ep_title;13)
Given the choice I think I would prefer to have Fred run my business instead of Tony.
Anyone notice during the Mario segment where Mario stated this has been in the works for a couple years but Whiney Tony just couldn't figure out how to carry off a merger?
"I just don't know how to do it."
Did he even bother to attend a class during his college years or did he buy his papers and a degree with a fat endowment while he snorted 4 years away?
chop456
02-25-08, 09:53 AM
A houseplant could attend a class. That doesn't mean it's capable of learning anything.
robot9000
02-25-08, 10:34 AM
Mubles needs to stop mixing the Valium and Cough Med. Did anyone else notice that he didn't really answer the questions asked? Miller asked him a qwestion about the 2010 fomula and mumbles went on with, what sounded to me, like a canned response. Like he was coached on how to handle specific questions and just used variations on that answer for every question.
racermike
02-25-08, 11:06 AM
Given the choice I think I would prefer to have Fred run my business instead of Tony.
With fred running it, we get free ice cold "ripple" at the end of the day
Spicoli
02-25-08, 11:23 AM
Mubles needs to stop mixing the Valium and Cough Med. Did anyone else notice that he didn't really answer the questions asked? Miller asked him a qwestion about the 2010 fomula and mumbles went on with, what sounded to me, like a canned response. Like he was coached on how to handle specific questions and just used variations on that answer for every question.
That's his MO. The guy seemed more coherent than usual though. Hopefully he's back on his meds.
Racing Truth
02-25-08, 11:44 AM
Mubles needs to stop mixing the Valium and Cough Med. Did anyone else notice that he didn't really answer the questions asked? Miller asked him a qwestion about the 2010 fomula and mumbles went on with, what sounded to me, like a canned response. Like he was coached on how to handle specific questions and just used variations on that answer for every question.
As I watched it, I was starting to think the same thing, but it just took him awhile to answer it, though he did.
Look, it confirmed what we already knew: This was a power/control deal. We heard, from both, that the '09 and beyond schedule will look a lot like old CART.
For me, I've known what this was all about from the start, so having it "revealed" so clearly barely upsets me. I internalized that yrs. ago.
This yr.= not very good. Next yr.= better, but same cars. 2010= major potential.
All IMHO.
Sean Malone
02-25-08, 12:08 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. I'll never trust what Tony mumbles, he needs to put it on the track.
I'll be very surprised if we ever see an attractive car, with the right balance of downforce that require more skill than just foot to the floor.
But since this happened, I'm glad it is in place for this year as opposed to an announcement for mergification a year or two down the road.
I'm hopeful that Cotman will be able to affect things in a positive manner.
When Tony said “I think, obviously, we’re gonna be using our equipment...", what do you think was his usage behind "our"? Was he maintaining a splintered mentality or was he referring to ALL equipment under their unified umbrella i.e. Honda (ilmor), Cosworth? I assumed the latter, but after reading the transcript I"m suspicious.
Sean Malone
02-25-08, 12:25 PM
Tony George - “I think, obviously, we’re gonna be using our equipment.
Meaning, of course, they are running crapwagons for ’08 and Tony still looks at things as two sided.
“We’ve got a schedule pretty much set for 2008, we’re gonna try and bring on board some really good events. Hopefully, we’ll be able to work those out and add them to the 2008 schedule…”
Meaning, of course, they are sticking to the set ’08 IRL schedule and that they are trying to work in the few Champ Car races that he has always wanted i.e. LB, OZ.
“.. 2009, I think becomes a cleaner sheet of paper. We really have the opportunity to try and bring the best of both series and start bringing it together with an eye towards 2010, 2011, which would be the centennial of the Indianapolis 500…
Meaning next year we’ll be able to add even more tracks that Champ Car held and hopefully everyone will forget I was such a moron by the centennial 500.
“…we’ve got a lot of good things going on.”
More vague lip service from TG. What good things? You remodeled your kitchen? You bought your wife a new luxury SUV?
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Racing Truth
02-25-08, 12:49 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. I'll never trust what Tony mumbles, he needs to put it on the track.
I'll be very surprised if we ever see an attractive car, with the right balance of downforce that require more skill than just foot to the floor.
But since this happened, I'm glad it is in place for this year as opposed to an announcement for mergification a year or two down the road.
I'm hopeful that Cotman will be able to affect things in a positive manner.
When Tony said “I think, obviously, we’re gonna be using our equipment...", what do you think was his usage behind "our"? Was he maintaining a splintered mentality or was he referring to ALL equipment under their unified umbrella i.e. Honda (ilmor), Cosworth? I assumed the latter, but after reading the transcript I"m suspicious.
Of course, for 2008, it will be the 'wagons. Don't like it, but given how this goes down, it sure as h=ll doesn't surprise me. My point is that I HOPE (maybe blindly) for better things EVENTUALLY, hopefully by '10.
Ruben Barrios
02-25-08, 01:11 PM
I missed the part where Tony mentioned something about stepping back and letting others run things. Did I not hear that correctly?
That was actually RM's suggestion... he asked him if it wouldn't make more sense to be like Bernie Eclestone and leave the operation to others...
Max Mosley = Tony Cottman
sort of...
Accipiter
02-25-08, 01:34 PM
Max Mosley = Tony Cottman
sort of...
Geez! What did Cottman do to you to deserve that. ;)
KK said he'd like to have an influence but he deferred some question asked of him directly to TG.
I believe the question was "What do you think Indy Car should be?" KK said it was Tony's call. Lame.
Let's see how long Popeye sticks around if he has to listen to FTG.
At least they confirmed Atlantics will keep racing. :thumbup:
Chiphead_Dave
02-25-08, 01:43 PM
When Tony said “I think, obviously, we’re gonna be using our equipment...", what do you think was his usage behind "our"? Was he maintaining a splintered mentality or was he referring to ALL equipment under their unified umbrella i.e. Honda (ilmor), Cosworth? I assumed the latter, but after reading the transcript I"m suspicious.
He was using it in the context of the "royal" WE.
Chiphead_Dave
02-25-08, 01:45 PM
Of course, for 2008, it will be the 'wagons. Don't like it, but given how this goes down, it sure as h=ll doesn't surprise me. My point is that I HOPE (maybe blindly) for better things EVENTUALLY, hopefully by '10.
Fooling Yourself
Written by tommy shaw
Lead vocals by tommy shaw
You see the world through your cynical eyes
You’re a troubled young man I can tell
You’ve got it all in the palm of your hand
But your hand’s wet with sweat and your head needs a rest
And you’re fooling yourself if you don’t believe it
You’re kidding yourself if you don’t believe it
How can you be such an angry young man
When your future looks quite bright to me
How can there be such a sinister plan
That could hide such a lamb, such a caring young man
You’re fooling yourself if you don’t believe it
You’re kidding yourself if you don’t believe it
Get up, get back on your feet
You’re the one they can’t beat and you know it
Come on, let’s see what you’ve got
Just take your best shot and don’t blow it
You’re fooling yourself if you don’t believe it
You’re killing yourself if you don’t believe it
Get up, get back on your feet
You’re the one they can’t beat and you know it
Come on, let’s see what you’ve got
Just take your best shot and don’t blow it
Hurling Frootmig
02-25-08, 01:52 PM
I had to respond to this post.
As a long time fan I feel no obligation to watch the "merged" series. If I find that it merits my attention I will give it. If it does not then I won't watch it. I enjoyed CART when there were multiple chassis, engines, and tires as well as a number of very talented drivers. I've been disappointed to watch a spec series and haven't gone out of my way to view more than just a few races. The IRL in my view is no different and is actually less interesting as they are primarily an oval based series. I find road racing to be the true test of talent and I find road racing to be boring and uninteresting.
I find it amusing that a number of new people have decided to post about how champcar fans should just follow like lemmings to the merged series. What Tony, Kevin, and Gerry don't realize is that the fans have certain expectations of how the series should be run and the type of racing that should be sanctioned. The IRL doesn't interest me all that much in its present form. Should they adopt turbos, race primarily on road courses, have three major companies supplying engines, and have three companies making chassis then I'll give them a look. They also have to have performance of the cars that rivals F1. They need to be innovating rather than just driving around in circles.
I'll go back to lurking now.
momotan
02-25-08, 02:06 PM
Well, one thing seems clear. FTG is going to have to piss off one group of fans or the other. Either he will throw his followers under the bus and go to mixed schedule like he mentioned yesterday with 1/3 ovals, 1/3 street and 1/3 road or he was lying and he will make this a predominantly oval series with the same pack suicide racing. Either way he will alienate one group. I guess he will have to figure out what group actually will be watching this year. Or he can continue carrying on with his superior intellect....
I haven't seen the Windtunnel show yet, but, if it's any indication from what I read on the boards, we American Open Wheel fans are in a load of HURT with this A*SHOLE Tony George in charge.
If this Homestead press conference DOESN'T capture the interest of the racing community and the media I don't think I can wait 2 or 3 years for it to come around. Tony is a dullard and hasn't had one idea that has panned out.....reunification is barely a blip to ANYONE now.
Has there ever been a more ANTI-CLIMATIC conclusion to 12 year old civil war? Wimpering along can't be the launch of this NEW series....it can't be. WTF are they thinking? Where's the new brand? Where's the direction? Tony, where's the beef?
ROBIN MILLER: You got a hardcard again.....NOW get back to work by holding TONY to the fire so's he can fix it or kill it better....you may be the last journalist that even cares anymore.
Insomniac
02-25-08, 02:37 PM
But since this happened, I'm glad it is in place for this year as opposed to an announcement for mergification a year or two down the road.
I really believe this is probably the only way it could happen besides CC going bankrupt. If they tried to do it in a smart way (in the future), somehow it would get messed up. He wanted power for 13 years and has it. Now what will he do? Will he try and recapture what OWR was 13 years ago?
Sean Malone
02-25-08, 02:38 PM
That was actually RM's suggestion... he asked him if it wouldn't make more sense to be like Bernie Eclestone and leave the operation to others...
Max Mosley = Tony Cottman
sort of...
But reading back through the transcript it sounds as if he was talking about his team, not his series.
I don't think TG has a plan beyond the start of the season. He'll make it up as he goes, just like the early years of the IRL. There's no way of telling now what tracks will be on the schedule in a couple of years. The IRL has some contracts with tracks for the next few years and those dates probably can't be changed (think of the mess with Texas and KC). Every jilted track on the CC schedule has started their lobbying for a spot on a future schedule but how many dates are actually open on the IRL schedule and will those open dates match up with each track's open dates? If the IRL doesn't draw more fans then tracks that think they want dates aren't going to be that eager to get them. Especially if there are no race sponsors. Saying it will be a 1/3 oval, 1/3 road and 1/3 street race mix is premature at this point. It will be whatever they can economically get on the schedule. Whatever that turns out to be.
Wimpering along can't be the launch of this NEW series....it can't be. WTF are they thinking? Where's the new brand? Where's the direction? Tony, where's the beef?
TG doesn't have a hot clue. Not a clue, not a vision, not a passion, nothing, zero, zip, zilch, nada. Like I said in my 'apple pie' post - "we'll have a tasteless, featureless mess, mashed together by a cook who hasn't got a CLUE"...
Bah. :irked: I'm starting to sputter again. :flame:
Mike Lawler
02-25-08, 07:52 PM
Did anyone last night receive a clear vision as to where Atlantics are going? Not I.
Kiwifan
02-25-08, 08:16 PM
TG doesn't have a hot clue. Not a clue, not a vision, not a passion, nothing, zero, zip, zilch, nada. Like I said in my 'apple pie' post - "we'll have a tasteless, featureless mess, mashed together by a cook who hasn't got a CLUE"...
Bah. :irked: I'm starting to sputter again. :flame:
That's the very thing isn't it anait? No passion, no clue, no vision.. It's so freaking sad. :cry: To be honest I don't have much faith in the man or what will become of AOW racing. (And I loved her so.)
Rusty.
Spicoli
02-25-08, 09:23 PM
Did anyone last night receive a clear vision as to where Atlantics are going? Not I.
The story I have been told by now ex-ccws employee friend is that the seires will continue under Vickie O with an eye on finding a buyer. Elan/Panoz/ALMS whatever is supposedly interested. Teams have been told that they will run "most" of the season, but obviously CCWS events where they were the support series are likely gone from the schedule. KK echoed as much last night.
The siutation, as they say, remains fluid.
My assumption is that the series can pretty much stand on its own, and therefore has value. I certainly hope they survive.
So the most competitive formula ,of the four, with the highest car count is now sitting by the curb?........:shakehead
extramundane
02-26-08, 11:15 AM
The story I have been told by now ex-ccws employee friend is that the seires will continue under Vickie O with an eye on finding a buyer. Elan/Panoz/ALMS whatever is supposedly interested. Teams have been told that they will run "most" of the season, but obviously CCWS events where they were the support series are likely gone from the schedule. KK echoed as much last night.
Kirby's latest claimed that it would continue, mostly at ALMS events, sanctioned by IMSA, which squares with what the sportscar dudes had been saying.
At this point, though, I'll believe it when I see it.
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